Round 1 Pool 3: ~Puppet Master~ Vs. TobisPawn

  1. Floydical
    Kakashi vs. SM Naruto(created by Uzumaki16)

    ~Puppet Master~: Kakashi

    TobisPawn: SM Naruto

    Restrictions: Kakashi has no access to Kamui, Naruto only has his powers up to the battle with Pain and has no access to the Kyuubi's chakra. In addition, while Naruto enters the battle in sage mode, he does not have means to replenish his SM chakra through reserve clones.

    Knowledge: Full. Meaning they each know all of eachother's abilities that are within the restrictions.

    Starting Distance: 50 metres

    Location: Forest of Death

    Intent: Kill

    To clarify some things from my postings, you are limited to 15 post total that will be counted for scoring. From your 16th post on, you will not get credit for anything you stated. Keep all responses to a maximum of 20 lines, if you notice your response is more than that after posting it, please edit it as soon as you notice. If you have any posts at the end of the debate with more than 20 lines, you will get a DQ. This obviously does not count images you post or links you post to show evidence from the manga, only your lines of text. If you apply titles of some sort to clarify sections of your post this will not be counted either, again, only lines of text count. If you have any specific questions about the match, message me or Uzumaki and we will clarify it in this thread. Again, do not post in this thread until you are posting an argument, any and all posts you make count toward the 15 total.

    Either one of you can post first. Begin!
  2. TobisPawn
    Alright. I guess I'll start off. I'll begin with what Naruto will bring to the table (Summons). Naruto can easily summon his boss toads along with Ma and Pa. Seeing that Kakashi will already have enough on his hands with these three massive toads, he wont be making it near Ma and Pa anytime soon. So Ma and Pa will have an easy time prepping a Frog Song. That, or they can even "snipe" and distort Kakashi's sight from afar. And seeing that it appears to be a Genjutsu based on hearing, Kakashi will be hard-pressed with it, just as Sasuke and Itachi were with a similar Genjutsu. Not only that, but Ma and Pa can use wind to soak Kakashi in oil quit easily, allowing Naruto to use his enhanced speed to run over and tag Kakashi with some explosives (as he did against Gaara). Kakashi wont be able to keep up with Naruto in CQC, due to Frog Katas, boss toads backing him up and overwhelming Kakashi, and just Naruto's superior strength overall. And it should be noted that SM Naruto can sense attacks quicker than Kakashi can, suggesting that Kakashi's Sharingan precog will be evened out, if not overwhelmed just by Naruto's sheer strength and overwhelming numbers.

    I'll close my first post, and as tl;dr say that Kakashi is simply overwhelmed. Three huge toads engaging in CQC alongside SM Naruto, on top of Ma and Pa sniping with Genjutsu and Ninjutsu from long range. Kakashi can't keep up, especially without Kamui. Basically, while Kakashi's trying to deal with an already-superior Taijutsu user, he'll also be stuck with three bone-crushing summons and two Genjutsu-specialists to, well, rape him in an utter stomp.
  3. TobisPawn
    And now to get more into Taijutsu. Naruto is simply the better Taijutsu use here. He has arguably better stamina, much more strength, superior sensing and precog, arguably better reflexes, and better CQC moves overall. While Kakashi's being sniped with Ma and Pa's Genjutsu and Fuitons, the boss toads can also ambush poor Kakashi from all three sides and probably kill him. But for the sake of the debate, while Kakashi's being pressed by the five toads that can arguably beat him, Naruto can prep a Rasenshuriken and throw it at Kakashi, who'll be distorted by the Genjutsu to be able to react appropriately. And in the case that Kakashi miraculously dodges it while also dealing with Gamabunta and the others, Naruto can instantly expand FRS and essentially cut Kakashi clean in half. I honestly do not see how Kakashi will be able to counter the boss toads in CQC, counter/deal with Ma and Pa's Genjutsu and Ninjutsu, while avoiding a FRS clean to the face. Heck, Ma can shoot a Dust Cloud, blinding Kakashi (he couldn't see in Zabuza's mist either), and giving Naruto and the toads an even easier time in dominating him in the darkness. Kakashi can't react to attacks from 4, arguably 5, different directions. Added to that, Naruto, if he manages to grab Kakashi in the dust (which should be easy), he can toss him in the air, have Ma and Pa hit him with a Frog Song (completely immobilizing him), and then have his toad-bros finish him.
  4. TobisPawn
    On top of those two aspects above, Naruto, along with his toad-bros, completely outclasses Kakashi in Ninjutsu. Kakashi can make one clone at a time, SM Naruto can make up to two (arguably more, as he did have two clones meditating at MTM). And these clones outclass and outnumber Kakashi's. Kakashi can cut boulders, yet Naruto can cut whatever the hell those are. And that still doesn't account for Naruto expanding his FRS. And, seeing that a regular Rasengan is more or less equal to a Chidori, I'm confident Two Giant Rasengans can beat a Raikiri. And Kakashi has Suiton, but Gamabunta has more-versatile water bullets that matched Shukaku's Fuuton that has very impressive cutting power. Kakashi has Doton, but Naruto has Rasengans or three building-sized toads to smash it. Kakashi simply can't keep up with so much Ninjutsu power and variety. If he goes for one target, 3-5 others will hit him with combinations including any of Rasengan, FRS, Water Bullets, Oil, Fuuton, or paralysis. Kakashi just can't handle this with his not-so-impressive Ninjutsu (when compared to Team Naruto's).

    Oh, and I'll talk about Kakashi's summons. Their sensing isn't really useful as the battle will probably be large-scale and open. And when Naruto does use dust and such distractions, his toads, Ma, or Pa can hold off/paralyze/kill Kakashi's dogs (which don't have very impressive fighting feats). Kakashi's outclassed in summons too. I guess I'll close my opening, and wait for your responses, and then counter those. But I absolutely cannot see Kakashi dealing with 3 toads, Ma, Pa, Naruto, and clones all at once.
  5. ~Uzumaki~
    Remember TobisPawn you are limited to this one SM for the entire duration of the match. You aren't allowed to have another one.
  6. ~Puppet Master~
    ~Puppet Master~
    Well, that's a big intro. Let me start by countering some of your arguments here.

    The first thing I had doubts about was wether Naruto can actually summon all those toads, meaning the three boss toads and ma and pa, since it was Shima who summoned them, not Naruto. Also, his chakra reserves suffer from summoning that many and big summons which could shorten his Sage Mode, if not fully deplete it.

    Second, the starting distance is 50m, meaning the toads have to get closer to him first before being able to attack, that and the time it takes to summon them gives Kakashi plenty of time to use Hiding like a mole tech. Honestly, I don't see Naruto or the toads getting Kakashi since he can move out of attack range. He can then use Double Suicide Decapitation tech, that should incapacitate Naruto, allowing Kakashi to cut off his head which is an instant kill, also note that an attack from the toads in that situation could fatally harm Naruto as well. Kakashi can also use Naruto's smoke bombs/clouds to his advantage since he has his Ninken to track Naruto, he can use Silent Killing to kill Naruto in an instant, finishing the match using Naruto's own tech. Arguably, also note that Silent Killing does not necessarily require cover such as mist. What I've also had doubts about is the mobility of the toads, please remember that this fight takes place in the Forest of Death.
  7. ~Puppet Master~
    ~Puppet Master~
    Because of the 50m distance, Naruto won't have a lot of luck in taijutsu, but if it gets to that point, Kakashi can activate the 1st gate, allowing him to use 100% of his power instead of 20%, I can see Kakashi getting the upper hand in Taijutsu here.

    Kakashi can also use Naruto's weakness against him, genjutsu. Kakashi has shown to use genjutsu on two occasions, one against Sakura and one against ANBU members. So far, we've seen Naruto break out of Itachi's genjutsu, but it took a long time. Silent Killing combined with Raikiri could be the key here, this move would kill Naruto.

    And the frog song you speak so highly of, takes a lot of time to prepare, and the method I've described above is more than enough to kill Naruto, and not allowing the toads to act.

    How will Naruto counter this?
  8. Floydical
    ~Puppet Master~ has asked if Kakashi is in possession of Zabuza's blade in this fight. The answer is yes, he has access to the blade and any other tools he has been shown using in the manga.

    I apologize for the late response on this. ~Puppet Master~, if this fact changes your first 2 responses, you have permission to edit them accordingly if you wish.
  9. ~Puppet Master~
    ~Puppet Master~
    Alright, thanks for letting me know

    Also, Tobi...
    You might want to check the rules, because Naruto never summoned any of those toads other than Bunta, Shima summoned everyone.
    The rules say:

    Summon Rules:
    Summoners are limited to summoning only those (summons) that they've shown on-panel.

    This would even mean that he can't use Ma and Pa, since their only job was to sustain Sage Mode ( which was impossible to begin with ) and provide additional jutsu, Naruto can use Sage Mode without them and that means that Naruto can't use Frog Song or any jutsu involving those two.

    In short, I think Naruto is only allowed to summon Bunta, since he did it in part 1.
    Unless of course, you can provide scans in which Naruto DID summon Ma/Pa/Ken/Hiro...
  10. Floydical
    TobisPawn has asked if Naruto is allowed to summon Ma, Pa, Hiro and Ken to the battlefield. At this point in the debate, we cannot set any new restrictions or rules due to both debaters having already posted. All that I'll say on the matter is that debaters should only consider feats that have solid backing in the manga. Keep in mind that both your opponent and us judges will account for such things when reading and considering your posts. You may both proceed with this match how you see fit, but altering any of your previous posts at this time is not allowed due to this question being asked afterward.
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