Round 1 Pool 3: Profontaine vs. Anub

  1. Floydical
    Floydical
    Neji vs. Kankuro(created by Floydical)

    Neji: Anub

    Kankuro: Profontaine


    Restrictions: None. This match takes place in part 2 and includes all jutsu and tools that they have shown access to.

    Knowledge: Neji knows that Kankuro is a puppet user but is not aware of his arsenal nor their capabilities. Kankuro knows about the byakugan's 360 degree vision and gentile fist, but does not know about the blind spot.

    Starting Distance: 50 metres

    Location: Forest with a nearby grass clearing

    Intent: Kill

    To clarify some things from my postings, you are limited to 15 post total that will be counted for scoring. From your 16th post on, you will not get credit for anything you stated. Keep all responses to a maximum of 20 lines, if you notice your response is more than that after posting it, please edit it as soon as you notice. If you have any posts at the end of the debate with more than 20 lines, you will get a DQ. This obviously does not count images you post or links you post to show evidence from the manga, only your lines of text. If you apply titles of some sort to clarify sections of your post this will not be counted either, again, only lines of text count. If you have any specific questions about the match, message me or Uzumaki and we will clarify it in this thread. Again, do not post in this thread until you are posting an argument, any and all posts you make count toward the 15 total.

    Either one of you can post first. Begin!
  2. Prefontaine
    Prefontaine
    Kankuro is a master puppeteer that has prowess with his own Black Secret Technique and many other powerful ninja skills. Acknowledged by Sasori for his abilities, becoming a jounin at age 16, and being the leader of the Surprise Attack Division are all impressive feats. The Third Databook shows him to have significant ninjutsu , tailjutsu, intelligence, strength, stamina, and hand seals numbers, and Kankuro’s abilities have only increased since then.

    As a puppet master, Kankuro has been shown to use multiple versatile puppets such as Crow, Black Ant, Salamander, and Scorpion. Crow is his first puppet, which is an offensive one that is rigged with many weapons that are all poisoned and can detach it’s limbs as well. He can use his Black Secret Technique Machine One Shot and Three Shot in combination with Black Ant to kill his opponent quickly and easily. It can also launch smoke and poison bombs. He also has Black Ant (two in fact) which is a supplementary puppet that can trap enemies within it, immobilizing them, and has some weapons of its own. These two puppets can travel at high speeds and even float due to Kankuro’s ability with them. He has Salamander as well, which is a defensive puppet. This puppet is very large, made of iron, and has a large shield. It has been shown to with-stand Hiruko’s tail and Deidara’s clay bombs, which are both impressive feats. Salamander can also go underground to capture its enemies similar to Black Ant. Kankuro also has his Scorpion puppet. He is the same as Sasori’s own version of himself but with modifications. Scorpion has five large poisoned blades on its back, a flamethrower, a thick coil in its stomach, extendable arms, and a Mechanical Light Sheild Block also. Kankuro has shown to use Red Secret Technique Machinery Triangles with Scorpion, shooting explosive triangular blades at the target.

    Not only does he possess these five puppets, he recently inherited Mother and Father from Sasori, giving him access to another two puppets. These two both have chakra shields and weapons as well, one a katana, the other a kunai spiked whip. Kankuro can also use Chakra Threads very effectively, being able to use five threads for each finger on a single hand to control his puppets or even quickly discard burning armor. He can also attach his threads to other people, being able control them as well.

    Kankuro is a long-range fighter that controls his puppets with intelligence, strategy and good coordination that can quickly overwhelm and over-power his opponent.
  3. Prefontaine
    Prefontaine
    That being said, I believe that Kankuro could defeat Neji for multiple reasons. Being at 50m is an advantage for Kankuro because Neji can only fight in CQ’s and is limited in that regard. Kankuro is also stronger and has better stamina than Neji, allowing him to outlast him in case this turns into a long term battle.

    Neji’s use of his Gentle fist is essentially useless against Kankuro because his puppets don’t have chakra and and do not feel pain from physical attacks. Gentle fist is essentially Neji’s whole arsenal and unfortunately it is simply ineffective. This is because Neji does not have the strength to destroy or even hurt the puppets with his open palm punches. He cannot do this. The effectiveness of Neji's fighting style is his ability to affect the Chakra Pathway System, which puppet's do not have.

    Kankuro’s seven puppets would simply overwhelm Neji, albeit from a distance, so that even his Revolving Heaven Technique would be rendered ineffective. He does not have unlimited chakra and cannot spin forever. Kankuro would also be able to hide in one of his puppets using his Body Replacement Technique, that while knowingly won’t fool a Byakugan user, will protect him from Neji’s taijutsu; if he gets that close, which he won’t be able to. Neji’s only hope for beating Kankuro is to get within 5-8m of him (Really 1m), which just isn’t going to happen because of Kankuro’s abilities as a puppet master and long range fighter.

    Neji has been shown to be able to cut and shut down any chakra related technique by his Gentle fist. An argument could be made that he would cut Kankuro's Chakra threads using this. This is ineffective for a few reasons: one, he has to make contact with the chakra in question, which is unlikely to happen because it is not the chakra threads that are affecting Neji but the puppets. Even if Neji is able to separate contact, Kankuro has shown the ability to connect to chakra threads swiftly and would reestablish control in seconds, seen here.

    In the end Neji simply has no counters for this style of fighting, not to mention Scorpion's abilities with a flamethrower and water cannons, along with each puppet having multiple poisoned weapons that would simply overwhelm Neji.
  4. Prefontaine
    Prefontaine
    Here is how Kankuro would defeat Neji: Kankuro's opening move would be to sprint towards Neji to help close the 50m gap while throwing multiple daggers at Neji. Forced to move out of the way, he continuously moves farther out of the forest and into the grass. Still at mid-range, Kankuro blitz' using Mother and Father and Black Ant, having them encircle Neji attacking them with their weapons. While this is happening, Scorpion is using flamethrower to attack Neji, forcing him to defend himself somehow, presumably Revolving Heaven. During the attack, Kankuro has Salamander entrap Neji within its body and finally Kankuro uses Black Secret Technique Triple Shot to kill Neji while he is immobilized by Salamander and Scorpion through his cord in his stomach assisting the capture.

    Thus Neji is killed and the fight is over.
  5. Anub
    Anub
    I’d like to start off by saying that you’re a bit too one-sided. Kankuro and Neji are more evenly matched than you would have people believe. There is no CLEAR winner here, but my opinion is that Neji has a higher chance of winning that his opponent does.

    I’ll begin this first post by countering your argument. Your opening is pretty much pointless: hype does not win fights, so there’s no point in saying that Sasori acknowledged Kankuro’s abilities, because I could turn around and say that Hyuuga is known throughout the NU as being one of the most feared and respected clans and there have been attempts from other villages to steal the famous byakugan.

    You mentioned databooks, which I personally find inaccurate, but for the sake for argument, if you look at the stats, Neji is overall higher than Kankuro. The only areas in which Kankuro is slightly higher is intelligence (although Neji has been called a battle genius plenty of times by Naruto for example , while Kankuro hasn’t), strength (which is pointless, because he won’t be able to use it against Neji) and hand seals (which is pointless again, because he’s a puppet user). Neji is significantly faster not only when it comes to hand movement (which is very obvious due to his Eight Triagrams: Sixty-Four Palms technique), but also overall movement speed, which he has displayed in part II even since fighting Kisame and himself.

    Now to move on to Kankuro’s puppets. Neji can see chakra and accurately detect any chakra movement within a 50m radius, meaning that there will be no surprise attacks coming from Kankuro. Also due to the fact that Kankuro knows about the byakugan, he won’t try to sneak-attack Neji, and combined with the fact that his puppets are large, there won’t be much chance of Neji being caught off guard via his blind spot. There’s also one important thing you need to keep into account: Neji can see chakra and Kankuro uses chakra to control his puppets. So now Neji can see Kankuro’s hand movements, his strings that control the puppets and the puppets themselves. He can most likely avoid any attacks from Kankuro. And even though his puppets have an impressive arsenal, Neji has never jumped into any fight just like that. He studies his opponents and then reacts.
  6. Anub
    Anub
    In the unlikely event that he is captured within a puppet, he can simply use Gentle Fist Art: One Blow Body that he has used against Kidomaru, Kisame and Zetsu as well. This pretty much disables or at least disrupts the puppet temporarily, until Kankuro can reattach his chakra string.

    It’s time to study Neji’s attack capabilities: The databooks (that you mentioned) established that Neji is far faster than Kankuro. But even if we disregard the databooks, Neji has been shown to surprise-attack 3 of Kisame’s clones HERE (although it’s been detailed better in the anime), while Kankuro has never really shown anything on that speed level.
    Due to Neji’s experience, despite him being a close combat fighter, he has done amazing job against long ranged fighter Kidomaru, having to dodge an amazing number of spiders and kunais thrown at him, whilst still being able to charge very quickly into attack and win the fight.

    Neji has also displayed one long range jutsu, Eight Triagrams Vacuum Palm, proving it to be fast enough to catch Kisame off guard, and also be long ranged enough to put Kankuro in trouble even from the beginning of the fight. By using is against Kankuro, he can simply disrupt his chakra flow and push him off balance, after which quickly attacking him like he did against Kidomaru (HERE) covering A LOT more than a 50m radius (if you read the whole chapter it’s painfully obvious) in an extremely low amount of time (before Kidomaru could fall down) all of this while being almost fatally injured! And this happened during part I naruto.

    Using logic: if a wounded part I Neji travelled 300m+ in 1-2 seconds, how many seconds would a full stamina, healthy Neji need to travel 50m to attack Kankuro? Also keep in mind that Kankuro does not have the protective abilities that Kidomaru did and if he doesn’t react to Neji’s speed in time, he's done for. I'd like to add that Neji's stamina has never been an issue, with him having shown to be able to fight maybe even hours at a very high pace (like he did against himself, or in the war arc), but I won't be going into any details yet.
  7. Anub
    Anub
    Final counter: (this is just me nit-picking on stuff) You mentioned the use of poison smoke and poison overall. The smoke can easily be cancelled with the Vacuum Palm jutsu I mentioned earlier, or even Eight Trigrams Palms Revolving Heaven, which has shown to fully protect Neji.

    You mentioned Neji not being able to destroy any of the puppets, but the fact is that Neji and cut the chakra strings and render the puppets useless. You say this can't happen because he can't get to the strings; however, I proved that he is faster that Kankuro in my earlier post. Also in case he doesn't get to cut the strings, he can still do damage to the puppets even with his Revolving Heaven jutsu.

    Kankuro having better stamina than Neji is not really true. There is no proof to sustain the argument, but Kankuro has never been in long, dragged fights, while Neji has (I mentioned in the previous posts about him vs himself at the beginning of shippuuden and also in the war arc where he used byakugan all day and eventually fainted after 1 day of fight with his dojutsu active).

    You last post: Kankuro rushing towards Neji? Good. That's only in our favor. 50m is the perfect distance for Neji to see everything that Kankuro does. I've also proven that Neji can get to Kankuro in less than 1 second in that distance. Neji won't be backing down if Kankuro comes towards him. Your shinobi will only expose himself way too much. The location contributes to Neji's style, because his opponent can't hide, but it limits his attacks in the sense that Neji can use trees to protect himself from certain puppets. I hope I covered most of it. Your move, sir. Good luck.
  8. Prefontaine
    Prefontaine
    My first post was simply to describe Kankuro and his abilities, nothing more. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it can not happen, Neji has x-ray vision but that still doesn't mean he can't be beaten by distraction and feints. Now, you say that because Kankuro's puppets are large they would be rendered ineffective due to Neji's Byakugan. This really isn't a factor. We see here and here that although Neji has his Byakugan active and is using his ETSFP, he is still overwhelmed and hurt by Kidomaru's attacks. Along with that, he states he can't use Revolving Heaven either because he's been bound. Scorpion, through his cable in his stomach, can similarly immobilize him.

    Kankuro is just as intelligent as Kidomaru or Neji and thus could figure out Neji's blindspot in a similar amount of time as Kidomaru. It is clear that even though the Byakugan grants enormous power, it can still be overwhelmed and has weaknesses. Your last statement is simply and unfortunately wrong. Just because Neji can see the CNS does not mean that he can see and predict movements like the Sharingan can. He simply has a better field of vision.

    In your next post you say that Neji would GFA: OBB the puppet but this is not true either. The examples you gave were against severely inferior clones of Kisame and against Zetsu, which is not very impressive. On top of that, Salamander has shown to withstand Deidara's explosive blast, which is far stronger than Neji's technique. Thus if he is captured, he won't be able to escape.

    You say he did an "amazing job" against Kidomaru. That is quite an exaggeration. If it weren't for a team of high class medical-nins and Shizune (top-3 medic) Neji would have died as well. Neji's "long-range" Vacuum Palm attack isn't very long-range. It is 10-20m maximum, too out of range for an opening. Also you're next statement is not true either. This CLEARLY shows that they were at a 50m distance. Not "300m+", I do not deny that Neji is superior in speed to Kankuro, but his puppets and defense and opening would not allow Neji to utilize it. Revolving Heaven has actually been shown to be penetrated and while a very good defense, is not impenetrable.

    Alright, let's assume that Neji cuts one (or even two!) of Kankuro's puppets, that still leaves five puppets in Kankuro's control at the exact time that Neji just blocked the other two, leaving him very open to an attack from any or all of the remaining puppets. This blitz of dozens of poison weapons that Neji would have to dodge even the most minute cut, which has happened would immobilize and kill him. Not only that but he has to watch out for a flamethrower too.

    Also the use of the war as a feat to Neji's stamina could be said about Kankuro as well, he is in the Surprise attack division and has been active just as long as Neji has. You also did not prove anything earlier; Kidomaru fell from a 10-20m tree which is actually about 2s or so covered in 50m by Neji.
  9. Floydical
    Floydical
    I know I said to maximize line usage by not using multiple paragraphs, but just to make things easier on us judges, both of you please separate your statements into smaller paragraphs with spaces between them. If any of your posts end up passing 20 lines of text because of this, I will allow it because it would simply be a lot easier on all of our eyes .
  10. Anub
    Anub
    My simple theory is that Neji simply cannot be distracted. Why? Because, as I mentioned, he can see the chakra strings, as well as the hands, as well as the puppets, all in a 50m radius, which is perfect for him when the fight begins. So even if Kankuro has extremely fast hand-movement (which he doesn't, according to the databooks and manga), his chakra strings, like any force or object, can only be affected AFTER something else comes into contact with it (or moves it in this case). Feints might works theoretically, but as i mentioned again and again, Kankuro just doesn't have the speed.

    The link you provided works better in my favor than it does in yours. You see Neji clearly being able to defend against a swarm of spiders, so a few puppets would not really catch him by surprise. Also, if you pay attention to the page, the problem wasn't that he couldn't see them, it was their numbers, combined with their chakra threads. And even so, we clearly see Neji defending himself quite well here, with the only exception being the blind spot, which Kankuro knows nothing about. To top it up, remember that you are describing part I Neji. He's progressed a lot since then.

    Kankuro may be smart, but not smart enough to be on Kakashi's level (for example). We saw Kankuro getting owned by Sasori and I don't think that was a very smart move on his behalf. And you're comparing him to Kidomaru. Yes, he may be around his level, but keep in mind that Kidomaru only discoreved the blind spot by accident and had the perfect justsu for it. He was a very good match-up against Neji because that's how Kishi wanted it to be. It is highly unlikely that Kankuro would try to discover some weak spots in Neji's byakugan and also keep in mind that he doesn't have the arsenal (in numbers).
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