Round 1 Pool 1: Piratefish vs. Kidgamer65

  1. Floydical
    Floydical
    Deidara (no restrictions) vs. Kakuzu(created by Uzumaki16)

    Piratefish: Deidara

    Kidgame65: Kakuzu


    Restrictions: There are no significant restrictions. Deidara's clay supply should not be considered a factor.

    Knowledge: Full. They each know every technique the other is capable of based on the manga

    Starting Distance: 50 metres

    Location: Where Deidara fought Sasuke, a large clearing with adjacent forest.

    Intent: Kill


    To clarify some things from my postings, you are limited to 15 post total that will be counted for scoring. From your 16th post on, you will not get credit for anything you stated. Keep all responses to a maximum of 20 lines, if you notice your response is more than that after posting it, please edit it as soon as you notice. If you have any posts at the end of the debate with more than 20 lines, you will get a DQ. This obviously does not count images you post or links you post to show evidence from the manga, only your lines of text. If you apply titles of some sort to clarify sections of your post this will not be counted either, again, only lines of text count. If you have any specific questions about the match, message me or Uzumaki and we will clarify it in this thread. Again, do not post in this thread until you are posting an argument, any and all posts you make count toward the 15 total.

    Either one of you can post first. Begin!
  2. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    Hope it'll be a good debate!

    Taijutsu: Deidara'll know not to engage in taijutsu, not that taijutsu is part of his general tactics. In fact, Deidara has shown himself capable of high-level evasion against close-range attacks:


    Gaara's Shukaku Arms are VERY similar, in form and function, to Kakuzu's Jiongu threads.

    Deidara is a very adaptable shinobi, capable of adjusting to opponents significantly faster than him:




    Any attempt by Kakuzu to attack using close-range attacks like Domu and Jiongu would be pointless, Deidara would easily get out of range.

    Small sidenote on Genjutsu:
    Neither combatant is known for ANY aptitude in this field, and in any case Deidara has this:

    Genjutsu is a moot point in this battle.
  3. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    Ninjutsu Part 1: C1 and C2: This is a battle between ninjutsu-specialists, their respective aptitudes in the field will be the deciding factor. Deidara, however, has the edge in scale, power and versatility.

    Here is a regular (not even C2) attack from Deidara:


    The attack is too fast for Initial-Shippuden Sasuke to dodge, who is comparable to Kakuzu in terms of speed, if not superior. This attack may not be powerful enough to damage Kakuzu through his Earth Spear, but it is more than enough to destroy a Mask.

    C1 bombs are very varied in form and function, ranging from airborne (various birds and an owl), "regular" bombs (insects, spiders), underground mines (snakes, centipedes), aquatic bombs (fish, jellyfish) and homing bombs (bats). As Deidara has no limits on his clay supply in this engagement, ANY battlefield will soon be filled to bursting with explosives. Keep in mind that this holds true for ANY of Deidara's techniques, seeing the sun blotted out due to C2 Dragons or the ground crawling with Clay Clones is a possibility, if Deidara has enough time. ANY pause in fighting will only serve to let Deidara fill more of the battleground with deadly, deadly clay.

    Deidara's C2 Dragon:


    Is a versatile and potent ninjutsu, capable of creating large amounts of mines:


    And Guided Missiles:



    These two techniques make Kakuzu deploying his Masks en masse (a staple tactic of his) a risky proposition at best. Guided Missiles could take the Masks one-by-one, while his mines (if released in the air by the Dragon) could saturate the battlefield enough to take them all out at once. The two techniques, in combination, will take out one or two masks at least before Kakuzu realizes his mistake and completes reabsorption of the Masks.

    The C2 Dragon can also create Lumpy Dragon Bombs (no name has been given for the technique, I made one up):


    The Lumpy Dragons are capable of completely destroying a Second-Stage Curse-Seal Wing, and seem capable of damaging even Domu if Kakuzu is caught in the epicentre of the blast.
  4. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    Ninjutsu Part 2: C3, C4, C0 and auxillary techniques: C3 is a concentrated and VERY powerful explosive of enormous size. The blast radius is so large it's near-impossible to dodge:
    (That's a large fraction of Sunagakure about to be reduced to smithereens)

    And the needed amount of defensive sand needed to block it DEFINITELY raises the question of whether Domu is enough to withstand it:


    Gaara, the same Jinchuuriki capable of channeling Shukaku in Part 1, is noticeably fatigued:


    As Kakuzu was never stated to have comparable chakra to a Jincuuriki or Bijuu, I am forced to assume C3 would overwhelm him, if only though entering his nostrils, mouth and ears (and other orifices), places the diamond-hard skin afforded by Domu would NOT cover.


    C4 is another path to victory, and one too large to be shut down by Kakuzu's Raiton Mask:


    Kakuzu has no way to detect the spread of Garuda's microscopic bombs. He seems unlikely to shock himself with a Raiton accidentally at a crucial moment, and he'd have no other way of determining that as the correct way to survive.

    C0 can be countered with precise Raiton, but ONLY if Kakuzu still has his Lightning Heart, which is unlikely at that point.

    Deidara also posesses the ability to make and switch with Clay Clones near-instantly:

    At some point during the pummeling he receives from Naruto, he switches with a Clay Clone. Naruto doesn't notice, neither does Kakashi.

    Deidara can hide underground, far enough that he would have survived a blast that would have taken down Team Gai, Kakashi, Naruto, Chiyo AND Sakura:


    He also manages to fool Neji's Byakugan with his Clone/Mole Hiding. With this combination properly executed he'd be able to dodge any of Kakuzu's demonstrated attacks, while leaving his opponent thinking himself victorious. Or, he could just simply evade with the Doton tech, if speed is of the essence.
  5. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    Countering Kakuzu's Ninjutsu: Kakuzu posesses a varied arsenal of Elemental Ninjutsu. He can use Earth, Fire, Air and Lightning. Presumably he can use Water too (the first Heart) but as he's never actually displayed the ability it can be discounted. First, lets take a look at the various elements' effect on Deidara's Explosive Clay:

    Lightning would deactivate the Clay, rendering it useless.

    Fire would forcibly detonate the Clay, rendering it ineffective if at long enough range, or MORE effective if close by. Similar effect to Shikamaru flinging his lighter at Hidan's Explosive-Note-wrapped body.

    Wind would cut and sever the Clay (similar to Naruto's Rasengan), but would neither detonate it nor deactivate it. Any technique disabled by Wind would fall to the ground without further direction, but could still detonate at Deidara's command. It would become a mine.

    Earth would crush and break the Clay, but as Kakuzu hasn't displayed any ability similar to Oonoki's Petrification (dampening its explosive properties), it would still be able to detonate should Deidara wish it. Similar effect to wind.


    Deidara could fairly easily dodge the blasts themselves, as he proved against Gaara:


    Here he also shows his adaptability, using faster, more agile bombs and strikes directly at Gaara. He could use similar bombs to attack AROUND Kakuzu's Elemental Blasts.

    Shukaku's Arms are of a slightly smaller scale than Kakuzu's largest attacks, but they're guided and there are several of them in the air at any given time. Deidara can evade even seemingly hopeless situations, such as this:


    Which further demonstrates his proficiency in the art of evasion. If he feels pressured, he can retreat to a safer height in any case.

    The C2 Dragon itself is surprisingly mobile, capable of dodging Sasuke's Chidori Spear and surprise shruiken:


    All in all, Deidara is more than capable of evading Kakuzu's attacks.

    Sidenote on Stamina: Deidara doesn't have the highest amount of the stuff, but he has NEVER let ANY injury slow him down:


  6. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    Kakuzu's (Ineffective) Counters: As I explained in my previous post, Kakuzu's Elemental attacks have different effects on Deidara's Clay. The only truly effective one is Raiton (Katon is effective at long range), and Kakuzu's ability with Raiton ninjutsu is just not enough to carry the day.




    Raiton: Here Kakashi is able to intercept and counter Gian without too much trouble. Deidara, both airborne, more mobile and at a longer distance away, would have little trouble evading the attack himself. His larger bombs may be at risk though, specifically C3 and C0 (C4 is too large, C1 and C2 too numerous or mobile). C3, however, can be detonated the moment before Gian would impact, rendering it less effective. If Kakuzu still has his Lightning Heart at the time Deidara uses C0, he can counter it. Unless Deidara uses C0's MASSIVE range advantage to his benefit and attacks from a distance closer to C0's 10KM limit. However, Kakuzu still posessing the Lightning Heart is unlikely at this point.

    Kakuzu's Monster Forms: Kakuzu can enter into somewhat more eccentric bodily arrangements, enabling him to fight better at close range, use Elemental Combinations, and fly. However, these forms come with a MAJOR disadvantage, the same one that plagues the Masks when floating free:



    Jiongu CAN NOT use Domu! Kakuzu's greatest defense against Deidara's incessant bombing is removed if he enters into his advanced forms or allows his Masks to roam free, essentially limiting him to his regular mode of fighting.

    Kakuzu can't follow Deidara into the air. He can't reach Deidara with his attacks. He can't even USE Elemental Combinations and expect his Hearts to remain undestroyed. He can't disable C4. He can't dodge or intercept C2. He can't block C3.

    All in all, Kakuzu just can't win.
  7. KidGamer65
    KidGamer65
    Kakuzu could possibly defuse C3 with his Raiton before it detonates.

    They can jump pretty high which will allow them to hit Deidara with Raiton.


    If he drops C3, His lightning release can defuse it by hitting it before it drops to the ground detonates.

    This can also be used as a starting tactic, since Kakuzu knows everything about Deidara's attacks.

    If he manages to hit him, I would assume his dragon would be unable to fly since it is made of the same clay as the explosives.

    Deidara doesn't normally start off with C4 or C0, he would use it when he is pushed far enough, so if Kakuzu can defeat him before then he could win but if C4 is laucnhed, Deidara will win.
  8. KidGamer65
    KidGamer65
    OK I'm back...

    Deidara's C1 can be either blocked by Kakuzu's Earth Spear, similar to how the paper bomb was deflected..and Kakuzu took no damage at all.


    Or he can use his Raiton techniques to nullify any incoming C1 bombs.



    Deidara's C2 Dragon: The mines can't be put underground without Tobi's help. Deidara could do it since he also possess the Hiding like a Mole Jutsu Deidara could attempt it, but that would be a horrible tactic, as Kakuzu can destroy his bird while he is under, and Kakuzu can easily intercept him.

    If he manages to get the mines set up, Kakuzu could use his Fire and Lightning element to make it rain, causing the ground to get wet. Then Raiton could be used to electrify the ground nullifying the landmines.

    The Dragon's guided missiles will be also be stopped by Raiton, or he could knock them away using Fuuton. (Which has a pretty wide and long range).


    The Dragon itself: As Kakuzu has knowledge on the dragon..the initiative would be to take it out with Raiton, as soon as it comes out. Kakuzu knows that if Deidara gets into the air, it could be a very big problem for him.

    As we see here, Deidara needed to use an explosive to hold Sasuke off before he could stop him from taking off into the air.


    Kakuzu, who has various long range jutsu (like the ones mentioned above) can succeed in what Sasuke failed in with a combo attack of Wind+Fire along with Raiton to take care of any incoming bombs. (As we know, wind amplifies the Fire element making it stronger).



    Incoming bombs that aren't as powerful as C3 can be blown up by Kakuzu's long range hairs while he is in Jiongu form.
  9. KidGamer65
    KidGamer65
    C3: This one will be tricky, but Deidara's fighting style shows him going in order from C1 to C4. If Kakuzu can pull off what is mentioned above, he can finish him before C3 ever comes out. (And I'm sure he won't use C3 when he can't fly since he will be blown up along with the enemy.

    So if Kakuzu gets him when he tries C2, he can very well win this.

    "The C2 Dragon itself is surprisingly mobile, capable of dodging Sasuke's Chidori Spear and surprise shruiken:"

    The dragon didn't dodge the Chidori Spear, it simply didn't reach as Deidara said, it only stretches up to 5 m.

    "The Lumpy Dragons are capable of completely destroying a Second-Stage Curse-Seal Wing, and seem capable of damaging even Domu if Kakuzu is caught in the epicentre of the blast."

    I am pretty sure that Domu is more durable than Sasuke's wing...I don't even think that the wing adds any kind of Durability to Sasuke. (And despite the size of the blast, it only destroyed one of Sasuke's wings).

    When hardening his body with Domu, he tanked Choji's attack and received no damage at all.




    Most of what you mentioned can be prevented as long as Kakuzu stops Deidara from taking flight and based on Deidara's fighting style (C1 to C0) Kakuzu can pull this off.
  10. Piratefish
    Piratefish
    With a 50-meter starting distance, Deidara will have little trouble getting airborne. He was able to evade Gaara comfortably at something like 2 meters, and several attempts at getting close by Sasuke were foiled with ease. Kakuzu IS a mid-long range focused ninja, but he's still not fast enough to disable Deidara's Clay at this distance before takeoff.



    As you can see, Gian is fired at around 15 metres away, 20 at most. Kakashi has time to charge two Raikiri and move to intercept the attack. With more than twice the amount of distance Kakashi had, Deidara will evade Kakuzu's attempts to prevent his takeoff without trouble.

    C3 has only ever been demonstrated to explode after Deidara orders a detonation:

    As such, he can wait until the VERY LAST INSTANT before ordering the detonation, leaving C3 slightly less effective than planned, perhaps, but due to the impressive explosion-radius it would still take out any and all Masks within a very large range.

    Even the weakest shown C1 bombs are lethal:


    And with a direct hit on a Mask, that Mask will be destroyed. A glancing hit would be enough for a C2 bomb, and simply staying close enough to the explosion radius (large!) would be enough for a C3. C4 and C0 simply bypass any attempt Kakuzu has at defending himself, the Masks themselves are simply obliterated. And even C1 bombs can be agile enough to land a direct hit on a Mask:
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