Round 1 Pool 4 Part 2: MilwaukeegHost vs. Solo

  1. Floydical
    Floydical
    Tsunade vs. Danzo (created by Kakashi Owns All)

    MilwaukeegHost: Tsunade

    Solo: Danzo

    Restrictions: Danzo has no access to KA and has the equivilent of 3 Izanagi eyes, or 3 minutes of Izanagi. The seal that covers his Sharingan arm is removed before the battle begins. Danzo does have his normal Sharingan but Moukuton should not be considered among his abilities. Summons are unrestricted.

    Knowledge: Full. This means they each know everything about each others abilities and techniques.

    Starting Distance: 25 metres

    Location: Samurai Bridge

    Intent: Kill

    To clarify some things from my postings, you are limited to 15 post total that will be counted for scoring. From your 16th post on, you will not get credit for anything you stated. Keep all responses to a maximum of 20 lines, if you notice your response is more than that after posting it, please edit it as soon as you notice. If you have any posts at the end of the debate with more than 20 lines, you will get a DQ. This obviously does not count images you post or links you post to show evidence from the manga, only your lines of text. If you apply titles of some sort to clarify sections of your post this will not be counted either, again, only lines of text count. Quoting your opponent also does not count among your line limit. If you have any specific questions about the match, message me or Uzumaki and we will clarify it in this thread. Again, do not post in this thread until you are posting an argument, any and all posts you make count toward the 15 total.

    Either one of you can post first. Begin!
  2. Floydical
    Floydical
    After discussing the issue with the other judges, some control over Izanagi has been given to Danzo, which was the original intent of this debate.
  3. Floydical
    Floydical
    MilwaukeegHost has asked about specifics regarding Danzo. Danzo only has access to techs shown in the manga. This means he cannot utilize moukuton, does not have Izanami and still has the positive and negative aspects surrounding Senju DNA.
  4. MilwaukeegHost
    MilwaukeegHost
    Counters to Danzo's Most Powerful Technique: Izanagi












    ************************************************** ************************************************** **
    Countering Izanagi is my intro, because if Tsunade is able to survive during Danzo's Izanagi attack, Danzo's chakra levels will decrease every time a Sharingan is sealed. This puts him at an extreme disadvantage for the duration of this battle.




    ************************************************** ************************************************** **












    Izanagi Counter #1: Izanagi has a Time Limit & High Chakra Usage

    Izanagi uses ALOT of chakra. Which means, the Sharingans will force Danzou to focus ALOT of his own chakra to keep Hashirama's DNA from going out of control. He will also be limited in the jutsus he uses in order to preserve chakra needed for Izanagi (manga below). The more Izanagi is gradually deactivated, the lower Danzou's chakra reserves become. The downside to having Hashirama's Cells AND using Izanagi, is if he does not kill his opponent using Izanagi, afterwards his chakra levels will be depleted and Hashi's DNA could go out of control during the battle.



    Danzo Kicks Karin here instead of using a jutsu, because he needs to conserve chakra while using Izanagi:






    The gradual deactivation of Izanagi uses a significant amount of the users chakra:






    If Danzo's Chakra levels decrease significantly he will loses control of Hashirama's DNA:
















    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________



    Izanagi Counter #2: Byakugou


    Since both shinobi have full knowledge of eachother's abilities, then Tsunade will know about Izanagi's 3 eyes = 3 minutes limitation during this battle. Tsunade would focus on paying attention to the activation/deactivation of that technique just like Sasuke/Karin did. Anytime Danzo activates Izanagi, all Tsunade needs to do is activate Byakugou to counter (same for deactivation of both jutsus).

    The only difference is, Danzo must CONTINUOUSLY injure Tsunade during this short 3 minute span--if not, Tsunade's Byakugou will outlast Danzou's Izanagi..... So for the duration of the battle, she will be "immortal" while danzou is no longer "immortal" using Izanagi. Fighting Byakugou w/o Izanagi is suicidal. Note: Danzou is NOT able to use genjutsu to hide the sharingan eyes after they have closed (as Sasuke did to Danzou).



    Byakugou can be activated as fast as Danzo can activate Izanagi (effectively countering Danzo's technique):




    Izanagi needs time for hand signs to be activated:



    Note: He cannot use wood release during this battle to save himself before activating Izanagi













    .
  5. MilwaukeegHost
    MilwaukeegHost
    Counters to Danzo's Most Powerful Technique: Izanagi (Continued...)















    Izanagi Counter #3: Capture / Immobilize Danzo (while Izanagi is active)


    Another downfall of Izanagi is... There has never been a manga to show Izanagi being able to be used (i.e. "reality altered") under any circumstance other than the user DYING OR USING HAND SIGNS. With Tsunade having FULL knowledge of this technique, she would know it is better to immobilize the user rather than to kill him under Izanagi. Danzo will go on the offensive during activating Izanagi, so if he is ever "captured" or "immobilized" in any situation where he is not able to make the hand sign to deactivate the technique, Tsunade can force him to stall out the 3 minute duration of this technique. Techniques such as Body Pathway Derangement could be used to stop danzo from performing hand signs after Izanagi has been activated. The manga below shows danzo being captured by Sussano'o & he is not able to re-appear (i.e. "alter reality") until after he is killed:









    Danzo needs TIME to use a hand sign in order to activate AND RELEASE (stop) Izanagi and preserve the Sharingans:

    Danzo using hand signs to activate Izanagi




    Danzo using hand sign to deactivate (release) Izanagi
















    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________



    Izanagi Counter #4: Body Pathway Derangement











    Note: The Body Pathway Derangement technique could be used during Danzo's Izanagi, to make it difficult to verify how much time is truly remaining before the duration of the Jutsu. Since the user of Izanagi cannot auto-sense if the technique has ended... if applied time-efficiently, it could be used to make it hard for Danzo to properly move his arm and locate how much time is left for his izanagi. The difficulty is further increased, if it is noted that Tsunade would aggressively go on the offensive if she is able to apply the Body Pathway Derangement technique to Danzo.









    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________



    Izanagi Counter #5: User cannot auto-sense if Izanagi is active



    Danzo needs to look at the sharingans to see how much time is remaining for the technique. In other words, he cannot "feel" if he is currently using Izanagi or not. During the last minute of his Izanagi activation, this is important--he could be killed if he cannot determine EXACTLY when the jutsu ends. In other words, Tsunade could go on an EXTREME OFFENSIVE during the last minute of Danzo's Izanagi, forcing him to fight without being able to easily verify how much time is left in Izanagi, giving her a small opening the moment izanagi has ended. This is extremely important b/c Tsunade only needs ONE-HIT to fatally injure/kill Danzo.



    Danzo looking at the Sharingans to determine remaining time limit of Izanagi:




    Danzo LOOKS AT SHARINGANS and says "Five left, time to finish this":




    Danzo tricked into thinking the eye was open/active (he couldn't tell he was no longer using Izanagi):




    "Tobi" explains how Danzo must look at arm to know duration of Izanagi:

  6. Solo
    Solo -in detention-
    You focus too much Izanagi.... but whatever. Lets do it! I counter then hit you with my Intro.

    Izanagi Counter #1: Izanagi has a Time Limit & High Chakra Usage

    Izanagi uses ALOT of chakra. Which means, the Sharingans will force Danzou to focus ALOT of his own chakra to keep Hashirama's DNA from going out of control. He will also be limited in the jutsus he uses in order to preserve chakra needed for Izanagi (manga below). The more Izanagi is gradually deactivated, the lower Danzou's chakra reserves become. The downside to having Hashirama's Cells AND using Izanagi, is if he does not kill his opponent using Izanagi, afterwards his chakra levels will be depleted and Hashi's DNA could go out of control during the battle.
    Since I can only use Izanagi 3x, Hashirama cells is the least of my problems. Danzo's only reason for conserving chakra the way he did during his fight with Sasuke was for one reason: He was afraid Tobi would jump into the fight.

    Izanagi Counter #2: Byakugou


    Since both shinobi have full knowledge of eachother's abilities, then Tsunade will know about Izanagi's 3 eyes = 3 minutes limitation during this battle. Tsunade would focus on paying attention to the activation/deactivation of that technique just like Sasuke/Karin did. Anytime Danzo activates Izanagi, all Tsunade needs to do is activate Byakugou to counter (same for deactivation of both jutsus).

    The only difference is, Danzo must CONTINUOUSLY injure Tsunade during this short 3 minute span--if not, Tsunade's Byakugou will outlast Danzou's Izanagi..... So for the duration of the battle, she will be "immortal" while danzou is no longer "immortal" using Izanagi. Fighting Byakugou w/o Izanagi is suicidal. Note: Danzou is NOT able to use genjutsu to hide the sharingan eyes after they have closed (as Sasuke did to Danzou).
    Why waste chakra doing Izanami when he can simply read her movements with the Sharingan? Even with Byakugo a sharingan should be able to read her since she's not Raikag fast. Only normal dodging and counter attacking, so her chakra would run out before his:
    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar..._ch230_p09.png
    http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Nar..._ch230_p12.png

    Izanagi Counter #3: Capture / Immobilize Danzo (while Izanagi is active)


    Another downfall of Izanagi is... There has never been a manga to show Izanagi being able to be used (i.e. "reality altered") under any circumstance other than the user DYING OR USING HAND SIGNS. With Tsunade having FULL knowledge of this technique, she would know it is better to immobilize the user rather than to kill him under Izanagi. Danzo will go on the offensive during activating Izanagi, so if he is ever "captured" or "immobilized" in any situation where he is not able to make the hand sign to deactivate the technique, Tsunade can force him to stall out the 3 minute duration of this technique. Techniques such as Body Pathway Derangement could be used to stop danzo from performing hand signs after Izanagi has been activated. The manga below shows danzo being captured by Sussano'o & he is not able to re-appear (i.e. "alter reality") until after he is killed:
    I'll steal this later on. ^ Anyway... So far everyone who's been inside the Anbu has been extremely smart. Example: Kakashi, Sai, Itachi, and Kabuto. I won't say Danzo is as smart as Kabuto, but he's a very good analyst. Example:

    Danzo's very first time seeing Susano'o. and already finding/making a weak point in Susano'o

    Danzo should be able to figure out how his body work in a matter of minutes.


    Note: The Body Pathway Derangement technique could be used during the final minute of Danzo's Izanagi, to make it difficult to verify how much time is truly remaining before the duration of the Jutsu. Since the user of Izanagi cannot auto-sense if the technique has ended... if applied time-efficiently, it could be used to make it hard for Danzo to properly move his arm and locate how much time is left for his izanagi. The difficulty is increased, if it is noted that Tsunade would aggressively go on the offensive if she is able to apply the Body Pathway Derangement technique to Danzo.
    Color = Flaws within your logic.
    Blue - She has no sensory abilities, therefore, unless she sees with her own two eyes she'll never know if Izanagi is activated or not.
    Black/Orange - Keeping up with Izanagi's time is all in the mind, not the body movement itself.
    Red - If that happens she would end up killing Danzo, risking activating Izanagi. Which could be fatal depending on the situation.


    Izanagi Counter #5: User cannot auto-sense if Izanagi is active



    Danzo needs to look at the sharingans to see how much time is remaining for the technique. In other words, he cannot "feel" if he is currently using Izanagi or not. During the last minute of his Izanagi activation, this is important--he could be killed if he cannot determine EXACTLY when the jutsu ends. In other words, Tsunade could go on an EXTREME OFFENSIVE during the last minute of Danzo's Izanagi, forcing him to fight without being able to easily verify how much time is left in Izanagi, giving her a small opening the moment izanagi has ended. This is extremely important b/c Tsunade only needs ONE-HIT to fatally injure/kill Danzo.
    You underestimate the sharingan abilities. Tsunade doesn't have a feat in speed, therefore, chances of her hitting Danzo is unlikely. Now, I'll explain Danzo's abilities next:
  7. Solo
    Solo -in detention-
    Since it seems Tsunade can't regenerate limbs(With Byakugo not enough info to say, but I'll say no), Danzo Wind Style can easily rip through human skin and possible bones. and with Wind Style: Vacuum Bullets he can keep his distance from Tsunade and actually keep her dodging instead.


    You also speak of Close Combat with Danzo, no? With Danzo's Wind Style: Vacuum Blade and once the Sharingan sees an opening, he can slice Tsunade into pieces. Also, Tsunade don't have feats in regenerating limbs. So cutting off her, Leg, Head, or Arms should do the trick.

    If not he can always summon Baku and then perform his Wind Style(with Baku around it increases his Wind Jutsu) then blow Tsunade into Baku and release Baku. That should equal GGs.
  8. MilwaukeegHost
    MilwaukeegHost
    Counters to Solo's 1st Post:






    Izanagi... was only the INTRO. Obviously. But we both know that the fight outside of Izanagi is where the winner will be declared. I wanted to lay a foundation for any Izanagi arguements used to try and kill Tsunade. Now, I need to counter a few things:









    You underestimate the sharingan abilities. Tsunade doesn't have a feat in speed, therefore, chances of her hitting Danzo is unlikely. Now, I'll explain Danzo's abilities next:

    Why waste chakra doing Izanami when he can simply read her movements with the Sharingan? Even with Byakugo a sharingan should be able to read her since she's not Raikag fast. Only normal dodging and counter attacking, so her chakra would run out before his:


    1st, Read both your BOLDED statements above. I need you to realize that you are fighting a KAGE and not a academy student lol. You say I underestimate the sharingan, and I say you OVERESTIMATE it. I will not comment how even Obito says Danzo's Sharingan usage is not at level with a true Uchiha. OR the fact that Danzo has NEVER shown the ability to use the Sharingan's Genjutsu OR predictive capabilities during battle. But more importantly, I'll post a manga of my own:


    Tsunade Kicks Madara as she enters battlefield:


    "Other" hits on Madara, former leader of the Clan with Predictive Capabilities:





    Regardless of "predictive capabilities", Tsunade can hit a sharingan user. Above, "argueably" the strongest Sharingan user ever, Madara (will FULL prediction capabilities) gets hit MULTIPLE times, even using Sussano'o instead of "dodging" her attacks (he activates it as she is running towards him). Furthermore, he is forced to use a wood clone in order to escape being hit again by Tsunade. We could go ALL DAY back and forth with this arguement, please don't force me to post manga after manga of shinobi hitting sharingan users REGARDLESS of predictive capabilities. A Kage will be able to hit a sharingan user, that was a weak arguement, with sufficient proof in the Manga.




    Next, read your RED comment above. Do you honestly think in a real battle Danzo's chakra would outlast... A SENJU.... AN UZUMAKI... WHO KEEPS A YIN SEAL FULL OF CHAKRA ON HER FOREHEAD... THAT CAN MANUALLY OR INSTANTLY HEAL HER OWN WOUNDS... AND A SUMMON (Katsuyu) WITH HEALING CAPABILIES... do I need to continue...?!?!? If there is no Izanagi used (as you stated), there is no need to waste chakra on her Byakugou. As a medic nin, she is 1) able to heal ANY of her own wounds herself DURING BATTLE with Mystical Palm Technique, plus she can 2) utilize the Creation Rebirth for any SERIOUS injury to big for Mystical Palm Technique, or even 3) use her summon to heal herself from even BEING CUT IN HALF. Even if Danzo managed to use Wind Release on her, she will survive even being cut in half:


    Uses Mystical Palm Technique DURING BATTLE to CONSERVE CHAKRA


    Cut in half, BUT 1) ALIVE with 2) YIN seal on forehead still, and 3) still able to summon Katsuyu
    (Yes Katsuyu could heal any cut limb, if she could re-attach her body cut completely in half)


  9. MilwaukeegHost
    MilwaukeegHost
    Counters to Solo's 1st Post: (continued...)









    I'll steal this later on. ^ Anyway... So far everyone who's been inside the Anbu has been extremely smart. Example: Kakashi, Sai, Itachi, and Kabuto. I won't say Danzo is as smart as Kabuto, but he's a very good analyst. Example:

    Danzo's very first time seeing Susano'o. and already finding/making a weak point in Susano'o

    Danzo should be able to figure out how his body work in a matter of minutes.



    Being able to create a battle strategy by analyzing the opponents jutsu--this is Academy basics. But here you are confusing battle intelligence with HUMAN ANATOMY intelligence. The reason Kabuto was able to quickly counter Body Pathway Derangement is NOT b/c of Root, but because he is one of the best Medics this manga has ever seen, OTHER than Tsunade. It was b/c of his extensive medical nin training that he was able to figure out how to USE HIS BODY in such a quick timespan. But... even if Danzo is able to figure out how to counter this technique in "a matter of minutes" (as you stated), the point is he does NOT have a matter of minutes. Tsunade is a ONE HIT KILL shinobi. A few minutes of not being able to properly use your body and... your dead.


    Even a High Rank Medic Nin was only able to regain 80% of his body control during battle:













    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________




    Color = Flaws within your logic.
    Blue - She has no sensory abilities, therefore, unless she sees with her own two eyes she'll never know if Izanagi is activated or not.
    Black/Orange - Keeping up with Izanagi's time is all in the mind, not the body movement itself.
    Red - If that happens she would end up killing Danzo, risking activating Izanagi. Which could be fatal depending on the situation



    Although Karin is a Sensor & able to sense chakra, Karin still did not know whether or not Danzo was using Izanagi. She only knew it AFTER realizing Danzo needed to deflect Sasuke's Sussano'o attack. It had nothing to do with her being a sensor. Regardless, since you already said that Danzo would not waste chakra using Izanagi, this arguement is currently pointless. But, for my point, Refere to Manga:





    Next, please read the RED comment above. If "keeping up with Izanagi is all in the mind", then WHY DOES DANZO CONSTANTLY CHECK HIS SHARINGANS DURING BATTLE?!? I dont understand your arguement here, but I previously posted the manga of him double checking his arm. The main point of my Body Pathway Derangement jutsu is backed by the fact that Danzo obviously lost his fight to Sasuke b/c he NEEDED TO LOOK AT SHARINGANS TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF TIME LEFT IN IZANAGI.








    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________


    Since I can only use Izanagi 3x, Hashirama cells is the least of my problems. Danzo's only reason for conserving chakra the way he did during his fight with Sasuke was for one reason: He was afraid Tobi would jump into the fight.

    Hashirama's cells IS a problem. I never commented about Danzo conserving chakra, IDK why you said this. I said, IF Danzo uses Izanagi, everytime a sharingan eye closes, it causes a significant dip in his chakra. I already posted the manga evidence for this. Furthermore, if Danzo ever gets close to death or extremely low on chakra (to the point he cannot control his Hashirama DNA) the Senju DNA will start to take over his body. This would give Tsunade an opening to ONE HIT KILL Danzo. I will further elaborate on Danzo's Senju DNA handicap in later posts.







    .
  10. MilwaukeegHost
    MilwaukeegHost
    Counters to Solo's 1st Post: (continued...)








    Since it seems Tsunade can't regenerate limbs(With Byakugo not enough info to say, but I'll say no), Danzo Wind Style can easily rip through human skin and possible bones. and with Wind Style: Vacuum Bullets he can keep his distance from Tsunade and actually keep her dodging instead. You also speak of Close Combat with Danzo, no? With Danzo's Wind Style: Vacuum Blade and once the Sharingan sees an opening, he can slice Tsunade into pieces. Also, Tsunade don't have feats in regenerating limbs. So cutting off her, Leg, Head, or Arms should do the trick.

    If not he can always summon Baku and then perform his Wind Style(with Baku around it increases his Wind Jutsu) then blow Tsunade into Baku and release Baku. That should equal GGs.





    Read the BOLDS above. I already provided manga showing that Tsuande's summon Katsuyu is able to re-attach the entire bottom half of her body, so attaching any limbs should be simple enough. And simply put, the fact that Danzo has Wind Release means nothing if he cannot hit her with it! Do you know WHY attacking comes 2nd for a Medical Nin? I need to take a moment to teach you a part of the philosophy of the woman who is credited with creating the official system which governs ALL Medical Nin:


    "The Medical Nin should NEVER be hit by the enemy's attacks. When you face an opponent, EVASION is the #1 Priority."






    Despite her dangerously brute strength, Tsunade GOES ALL OUT on Sakura, illustrating how IMPORTANT she believes evasion is to a Medic Nin. And if words are not enough... Sakura's evasion techniques (taught to her by Tsunade herself) are shown to be at an extremely high difficulty (and this is only her STUDENT) fighting against the genius Sasori:



    Using one of his most powerful LONG RANGE techniques, Sasori is only able to scratch Sakura once
    (A scratch she ALLOWS to happen purposely, to counter attack):










    Next, look at your RED comment above. Since you briefly spoke upon summons, I would also like to make a brief comment.

    If Danzo has time/opportunity to summon Baku, Tsunade will also be able to counter summon with Katsuyu. Since summoning animals of this magnitude use alot of chakra, summoning Baku to the battlefield would actually be a disadvantage to Danzo. First of all, the only manga supported technique of Baku is Wind Suction. All Tsunade needs to do is summon Katsuyu in between herself and Baku--Katsuyu is big enough to negate Baku's suction on Tsunade. Furthermore, since Baku can only use wind suction, Katsuyu can counter by spitting acid into the suction area of Baku, causing him to suck/swallow the acid. This would cause Baku to dissappear, leaving Tsunade, Danzo AND Katsuyu on the battlefield. With Katsuyu's healing capabilities, and long range attacks, using summons in this battle would leave Danzo at a disadvantage (just like his battle with Sasuke). I will later elaborate on the advantages of Katsuyu VS Baku in later posts, if needed.
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