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  1. #1
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    There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Instead of talking about Haki, let's talk about Devil Fruits. For starters, what are they?

    Devil Fruits

    Now that's out of the way, what is my point? My point is this.

    As much as I hate this page (I'm not a LuNa fan) you have to pay attention to Luffy's neck. It looks like Orochimaru, yes. Has he done it before, no. I mean, pre-skip Luffy had to pull back any part of his body for it to stretch. I believe that during the time skip, he also trained in his Devil Fruit, get acquainted with it better.

    Why would this topic be important? Well, in my case I believe that not everything is Haki. Remember Akainu being attacked by Marco and Vista? Or when Whitebeard attacked Aokiji?



    Haki is supposed to be the only thing, aside from the usual weakness, that would make people touch DF users or bypass DF defenses. As you can see, Akainu was struck by an ambush of 2 Haki users, WB commanders even. Yet he didn't go down ... why would that be?

    The first possibility would be that he used his Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki to sense the attack. It would have been fine, except that he never anticipated the attack at all, as evidenced by the line "So you two are Haki users."

    The second possibility would be that Akainu has trained his Haki to the extent of applying logia defense unconsciously. You heard that right, no more gag feats like Ace and Smoker's back in Alabasta. I believe with this arc, Smoker's DF mastery has gone up as well, and while Luffy can hit Smokey, he won't be able to put him down as easily as well. Smoker may as well have no Haki (since Akainu remarked "So you two are Haki users, evidence that not all pirates in the NW use Haki, even experienced ones) but he might have trained his DF to the extent that he can compete on a level with them.

    Luffy being able to do Mr. Fantastic-esque moves only proves one thing: we will see even more moves like Snake Shot in the future. His attacks have been too linear for one thing; no matter how fast or strong it is, it will be blocked. If Luffy had the ability to control the direction of his attack though, it would be even better. Big Mom wouldn't see what's coming.

    Off topic: I'm just 3/4 done with my project, and I can't watch Planetes for my break since Megavideo decided to screw with me (not talking about the time limit) :mad:.
     
         
    Last edited by Boa Hancock; 01-19-2012 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2
    The Sage of no Paths captain pop's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Interesting post

    Yea I believe someone once mentioned to Luffy that the base power of your devil fruit isn't everything, you have to train that ability.
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    agreed
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by captain pop View Post
    Interesting post

    Yea I believe someone once mentioned to Luffy that the base power of your devil fruit isn't everything, you have to train that ability.
    agree with you
     
         

  5. #5
    Senior Member The Thinker's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by captain pop View Post
    Interesting post

    Yea I believe someone once mentioned to Luffy that the base power of your devil fruit isn't everything, you have to train that ability.
    Agreed! :D
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    agree
     
         

  7. #7
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    ... what is with the, pardon the term, terribly unimaginative posts my dear sirs? I expected a discussion only to see a wave of "agreed"

    Anyway, I'm getting back to my project, laters.
     
         

  8. #8
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    It's a tough situation. We can't know whether they are using Bosushoku Haki to survive Bosushoku Haki attacks or they survive and regenerate thanks to greater mastery of their devil fruits.

    Enel had great mastery over his fruit (one of the best in the series tbh) but I am sure even he would have been cut in half by Vista or impaled on Whitebeard's bisento and died.

    I mean, even marines thought Aokiji have died due to being hit by haki enchanced weapon.

    The whole point of Busoshoku Haki is that it can solidify the fluid bodies of logia's. If it's solid you can cut or hit it like when Luffy solidified Croc's body with water/blood or Enel's body with his rubber attacks. Can Enel train his fruit to the point where rubber attacks have no effect on him? Doubt it.
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 01-19-2012 at 09:34 PM.

  9. #9
    Reborn Bgkiller's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    would like to see some new moves from luffy or new techniques.
     
         

  10. #10
    Member Monkey d garp's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    yes i hope luffy and others are improving there df i have enough about stuff like haki owns logia and other df users hope new world is not only crowded with haki users
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    It's a tough situation. We can't know whether they are using Bosushoku Haki to survive Bosushoku Haki attacks or they survive and regenerate thanks to greater mastery of their devil fruits.

    Enel had great mastery over his fruit (one of the best in the series tbh) but I am sure even he would have been cut in half by Vista or impaled on Whitebeard's bisento and died.

    I mean, even marines thought Aokiji have died due to being hit by haki enchanced weapon.

    The whole point of Busoshoku Haki is that it can solidify the fluid bodies of logia's. If it's solid you can cut or hit it like when Luffy solidified Croc's body with water/blood or Enel's body with his rubber attacks. Can Enel train his fruit to the point where rubber attacks have no effect on him? Doubt it.
    Enel had the absolute WORST mastery over his fruit, really the worst in the whole series. He was so confident in his own power that he thought he was god. That was the whole point, no one could touch him.

    If he trained just for a bit and wasn't so overconfident he could've finished Luffy in 100 ways. Ace, Caribou and Enel all got their asses kicked because of the same reason.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    i think there is, didn't crocodile mention it to luffy in their first fight where luffy got owned..?
    but i think haki mastery has nothing to do with DF mastery...
    here rayleigh states there are only two ways to defeat a logia...clear elemental adv or haki
    http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928...apter-597.html
     
         
    Last edited by s0ulja; 01-20-2012 at 01:07 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Crocodile had said it long ago that one can train and master their Devil Fruit. Kuzan inspired Luffy to become stronger which resulted in Luffy using or figuring out gear 2 and gear 3. what happens to his body is something that only a rubber man can do and that itself is using his df abilities or taking advantage of it.

    so yea the whole "leveling up" your df i think is pretty much common sense cuz this is what Luffy has been doing..

    or maybe i missed your point?
     
         

  14. #14
    Senior Member Brucewen001's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Cook View Post
    Enel had the absolute WORST mastery over his fruit, really the worst in the whole series. He was so confident in his own power that he thought he was god. That was the whole point, no one could touch him.

    If he trained just for a bit and wasn't so overconfident he could've finished Luffy in 100 ways. Ace, Caribou and Enel all got their asses kicked because of the same reason.
    you are wrong... Enel also hadgood mastery over his df... evidence: he fell asleep while he was under attack ... This proves he also have good mastery over his df. The only reasons he lost to luffy was-
    1) he had no idea that luffy df(rubber) can withstand lightning,never saw one before(rubber don't exist in sky island...
    2) his God syndrome and personal belief that no one can touch him... Let alone beating him.
    3) it was oneway fight... No attacks could harm luffy(except sharp objects)but he could be harmed ...
    4) usual overconfidence in his logia powers...(as caribou ,although he was hit with CoA but he was careless and already knew about existence of haki)
    5) other reasons....
     
         

  15. #15
    I am tthe wind . windrider's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Yes There is some called as DF mastery .But can Akainu form an armor of lava + COA or can Akainu imbue his lava with COA while attacking someone ?
     
         

  16. #16
    The White Demon Totsuka No Tsurugi's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Cook View Post
    Enel had the absolute WORST mastery over his fruit, really the worst in the whole series. He was so confident in his own power that he thought he was god. That was the whole point, no one could touch him.

    If he trained just for a bit and wasn't so overconfident he could've finished Luffy in 100 ways. Ace, Caribou and Enel all got their asses kicked because of the same reason.
    No man JUST NO!!!!! ace know very well that if he fight akainu he will lose, but he has no choice, because luffy just sit there while akainu go after him he has to save luffy somehow and that's the only way, he never think that just because he was logia type akainu punch will have no effect for him, he knew what will happen and he still do that:shrug:
     
         

  17. #17
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    Crocodile had said it long ago that one can train and master their Devil Fruit. Kuzan inspired Luffy to become stronger which resulted in Luffy using or figuring out gear 2 and gear 3. what happens to his body is something that only a rubber man can do and that itself is using his df abilities or taking advantage of it.

    so yea the whole "leveling up" your df i think is pretty much common sense cuz this is what Luffy has been doing..

    or maybe i missed your point?
    I know it's common sense, but lately all of the people here are talking Haki sense and Logia sense and Vice Admiral sense instead of common sense.
     
         

  18. #18
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Cook View Post
    Enel had the absolute WORST mastery over his fruit, really the worst in the whole series. He was so confident in his own power that he thought he was god. That was the whole point, no one could touch him.
    Didn't you skip Skypiea? No wonder you're spewing this out..
     
         

  19. #19
    I am tthe wind . windrider's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Yes There is DF mastery .But can Akainu form an armor of lava + COA or can Akainu imbue his lava with COA while attacking someone ?can you show me evidence?

    When he stated they both are Haki users because they were able to bypass Akainu's logia nature and hit him,though those hits were not completely powerful enough to bring down Akainu ,It cannot be proved otherwise .
    How come you can say for sure that he has trained his busoshoki haki to unconsciously activate on his body .Is their any evidence for that.If what you are saying is true ,then they should not have managed to hit Akainu in the first place.

    Can you answer about Ace vs Akoji atleast which ended in a draw.If Akoji was able to imbue ICE+COA, he should have been bypassed Ace's abilities and frozen them but that did not happen right.
     
         

  20. #20
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    Yes There is DF mastery .But can Akainu form an armor of lava + COA or can Akainu imbue his lava with COA while attacking someone ?can you show me evidence?
    I cannot show Akainu imbuing his magma with Haki since most feats are unquantifiable, I can show you another character who imbued Haki into her DF powers though.



    After she used Pistol Kiss, Luffy grimaced in pain. Normally he wouldn't be since it's a blunt attack, but it hurt him. Proof enough that DF skills can be imbued with Haki.

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    When he stated they both are Haki users because they were able to bypass Akainu's logia nature and hit him,though those hits were not completely powerful enough to bring down Akainu ,It cannot be proved otherwise .
    How come you can say for sure that he has trained his busoshoki haki to unconsciously activate on his body .Is their any evidence for that.If what you are saying is true ,then they should not have managed to hit Akainu in the first place.
    Er, we still don't have any evidence that Busoshoku can be unconsciously activated. DF powers though, can be unconsciously activated. See Enel's revival.

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    Can you answer about Ace vs Akoji atleast which ended in a draw.If Akoji was able to imbue ICE+COA, he should have been bypassed Ace's abilities and frozen them but that did not happen right.
    No, all Busoshoku does so far is to bypass Logia defenses, not nullify, not cancel, not take away. It makes you hit the real person underneath all that power, unless that certain person has trained his DF to the fullest, then he will prove challenging to hit. Ace vs Aokiji ended in a draw, since neither of them hit each other, and I guess Aokiji was giving them a chance to get away. Aokiji wasn't that serious in the war, he's done many deeds worthy of being called a traitor by. Shanks is a known Haki user, but when he met Ace when Ace was captain of the Spade Pirates, did he use Haki to resist the cold? No, he used a parka. Same with Aokiji. It's useless to hit fire with Haki, since all you're doing is trying to attack fire. Now if Aokiji attacked Ace, now that's another story.
     
         

  21. #21
    I am tthe wind . windrider's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    I cannot show Akainu imbuing his magma with Haki since most feats are unquantifiable, I can show you another character who imbued Haki into her DF powers though.
    I was not speaking about paramicia or Zoan type ,I was arguing only about Logia type.I am saying that it impossible for a logia user to imbue haki along with his logia attack.

    It is not that it is unquantifiable ,again going back to WB (paramicia) vs Akainu(logia) .white beard was able to quantify his gura gura with Busoshoki Haki .Why any of the logia users been shown to do that.It is impossible or impractical for them to do so . Can you imagine a Busoshoki haki imbued fire or lightning ?

    No, all Busoshoku does so far is to bypass Logia defenses, not nullify, not cancel, not take away. It makes you hit the real person underneath all that power, unless that certain person has trained his DF to the fullest, then he will prove challenging to hit. Ace vs Aokiji ended in a draw, since neither of them hit each other, and I guess Aokiji was giving them a chance to get away. Aokiji wasn't that serious in the war, he's done many deeds worthy of being called a traitor by. Shanks is a known Haki user, but when he met Ace when Ace was captain of the Spade Pirates, did he use Haki to resist the cold? No, he used a parka. Same with Aokiji. It's useless to hit fire with Haki, since all you're doing is trying to attack fire
    Very convincing but also confusing .So you mean to say Busoshoki Haki is affective only against physical attack .do you mean to say busoshoki haki is useless against elemental attacks such as fire or magma ?
    by definition busoshoki is called armament haki .It has proved to be used along with weapons,paramicia and Zoan type abilities .What about logia type .I can clearly see a paradox when I assume that logia users can imbue haki along with their logia abilities .

    Same with Aokiji. It's useless to hit fire with Haki, since all you're doing is trying to attack fire
    Not Haki alone ,Haki imbued with Ice ,That should have bypassed ace's fire because of the haki and frozen Ace because of Haki+Ice.
    If it is useless to use haki against fire,then busoshoki haki is not effective against elemental attacks but it can be used as a countermeasure against a logia form.Aren't those statements 2 contradictory to one another.

    Now imagine if Enel can imbue his lightning with Haki .we can assume that even luffy will be turned to ashes in that case.Applying the same thing to Ace vs Akoji ,Akoji should have bypassed ace's fire .This is why I saying that Haki cannot be imbued with elemental attacks
     
         

  22. #22
    Shitty Chef Love Cook's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Didn't you skip Skypiea? No wonder you're spewing this out..
    just because I forgot about the last episode somehow doesn't mean I saw Enel's overconfident ass getting kicked by small time Luffy.

    Enel showed 0 creativity in trying to beat Luffy, it was electricity over and over again. Only when he attached the ball to Luffy's hand he was able to give luffy a handicap.

    I think even Bellamy was less confident than Enel in his own powers. Most anticlimactic villian in the story so far.


    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    No man JUST NO!!!!! ace know very well that if he fight akainu he will lose, but he has no choice, because luffy just sit there while akainu go after him he has to save luffy somehow and that's the only way, he never think that just because he was logia type akainu punch will have no effect for him, he knew what will happen and he still do that:shrug:
    No, I was talking about his overconfidence.

    Ace ran back to fight Akianu when he was humilating whitebeard with his little talk. If he just kept walking at the time. All could've been fine. But his "Roger" stuborn nature took over and he choose death.
     
         
    Last edited by Love Cook; 01-20-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  23. #23
    The White Demon Totsuka No Tsurugi's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Cook View Post
    No, I was talking about his overconfidence.

    Ace ran back to fight Akianu when he was humilating whitebeard with his little talk. If he just kept walking at the time. All could've been fine. But his "Roger" stuborn nature took over and he choose death.
    overconfidence ? NO

    Stubborn ? YES
     
         

  24. #24
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    I was not speaking about paramicia or Zoan type ,I was arguing only about Logia type.I am saying that it impossible for a logia user to imbue haki along with his logia attack.

    It is not that it is unquantifiable ,again going back to WB (paramicia) vs Akainu(logia) .white beard was able to quantify his gura gura with Busoshoki Haki .Why any of the logia users been shown to do that.It is impossible or impractical for them to do so . Can you imagine a Busoshoki haki imbued fire or lightning ?
    And I wonder what makes Logia so special that they can't imbue their attacks. A DF is still a DF no matter what.

    Yes, I can imagine, but like I said, unquantifiable since the only valid Logia match was Ace and Aokiji, and even that wasn't a fight. Akainu didn't have a valid Logia opponent to keep up with him, hence I don't know if he used Haki or not. I'm pretty sure he didn't need Buso though since all his enemies were either non-Logias or Ace.

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    Very convincing but also confusing .So you mean to say Busoshoki Haki is affective only against physical attack .do you mean to say busoshoki haki is useless against elemental attacks such as fire or magma ?
    by definition busoshoki is called armament haki .It has proved to be used along with weapons,paramicia and Zoan type abilities .What about logia type .I can clearly see a paradox when I assume that logia users can imbue haki along with their logia abilities .
    No, what I meant was Buso is useless against the elemental attack ITSELF. Like trying to attack Ace's Hiken instead of attacking Ace himself. That's what Aokiji did, don't try to tell me otherwise.

    Paradox? You think the Admirals can't control where they place their armor? Like I said, they haven't had a fight with a logia that can match them yet, so as of now it's impossible to tell. If we see the Akainu vs Aokiji fight and Aokiji's weakness isn't magma, then we'll see right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    Not Haki alone ,Haki imbued with Ice ,That should have bypassed ace's fire because of the haki and frozen Ace because of Haki+Ice.
    If it is useless to use haki against fire,then busoshoki haki is not effective against elemental attacks but it can be used as a countermeasure against a logia form.Aren't those statements 2 contradictory to one another.
    I just addressed this above. Those statements aren't contradictory. Wait a second.



    That was what Aokiji was trying to do. If he was serious even a little bit he wouldn't have done that.

    Quote Originally Posted by windrider View Post
    Now imagine if Enel can imbue his lightning with Haki .we can assume that even luffy will be turned to ashes in that case.Applying the same thing to Ace vs Akoji ,Akoji should have bypassed ace's fire .This is why I saying that Haki cannot be imbued with elemental attacks
    And that's why I'm saying you're wrong.
     
         
    Last edited by Boa Hancock; 01-20-2012 at 07:02 PM.

  25. #25
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: There is such a thing as Devil Fruit Mastery

    Quote Originally Posted by wallie20 View Post
    If a person uses Kenbunshoku haki to defend against an attack he hardens his body so that the attack just bounces of his body. The marines were slashed by the attacks so it can't be Kenbunshoku haki.
    You're talking about Busoshoku, Color of Armaments.
     
         

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