Has Yammamoto surpassed/reached Mugetsu levels?

[FlyingThunderGodHax]

Alright we have all seen Yama ji just go crazy in the recent chapters....
So my question is , has Yamamamoto surpassed/reached Mugetsu levels?

Notes:

This may be too early to say but obviously their is a North to his Bankai hence his West,East,South. So if you don't believe he has surpassed/reached Mugetsu levels then I think North may be similar to Ichigo's Mugetsu(losing his powers for an OP one shot kill)

But to counter, Ichigo was fighting on Par if not better then Aizen. His Mugetsu 1 shot kill imo could still slice through Yama's OP BAJILLION! degree Armour. Because it cuts dimensions not physically so technically,despite Yammamoto's OP defense I still think it would slice Yamma in half.

So whether you decide your answer in terms of features or the victor in a 1on1 situtation please share..... :D

[lubricati0n]

Yama > Ichigo at all stages.

[Mischeif Maker]

im not caught up with the manga right now but my thought are that if he could have defeated aizen he would have so unless he got more powerful since then

[-S-]

Hm... I don't know about that, if he's so powerful, he would have used that technique against Aizen.

[Migualon J.J.]

Aizen was so scared of Yama-jii so he created Wonderweiss SPECIALLY to seal Ryuujin Jakka (spelling ) it stole all flames of Ryuujin Jakka, so i think he couldn't use his Bankai at that moment, that's why he didn't use it,... AND he needed to be stabbed by Kyoka Suigetsu to make sure it IS Aizen, so it's hard to tell, personally? i think that Yama-jii owns Ichigo in all his forms

[FlyingThunderGodHax]

Hm... I don't know about that, if he's so powerful, he would have used that technique against Aizen.

Yea ikr.... their had been alot of commotion on this ^^^^
The one which people usually blame it on is the "plot hax" excuse leaving the Antagonist as the Hero yada yada...

My personal theory is that in that instance he already and quite clearly had the upper hand on Aizen in terms of sheer power. Regardless whether he was in Shikai or Bankai state he still had the most powerful Zanpaktou. So it came down to technique and maybe he thought his Shikai was more suited in that situation, whereas his Bankai needed precision and accuracy which was completely nullified due to "Kyōka Suigetsu". So instead he chose to trap Aizen in with his Shikai and get close to him which is the only way to hit Aizen hence actually touching Aizen's Zanpaktou.

Mostly speculation on my part....

[ulqui0rra]

hard to tell , they are on par or probably yamaji is stronger

[Gooner4life]

Yammamoto is stronger

[choft]

Hm... I don't know about that, if he's so powerful, he would have used that technique against Aizen.

That's because Yamamoto couldn't use it since it was sealed by Wonderweiss. Even Aizen admitted that Yamamoto's zanpakto is stronger than his own - hence the creation of Wonderweiss.

Also, Yamamoto never fought on the front lines until his battle with Juha Bach.

http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/505/9

That means that Aizen wasn't enough of a threat for him to decide to take him on at the beginning or early on.

[Juha]

They are completely different in ability wise. Yama's zanpakouto has been called the strongest in soul society history. Ichigo is still evolving if ichigo master's his full hollow form and mugetsu together than it would be possible for him to be considered the strongest.

[Mosgoved]

IMO dangai ichigo and old man yammamoto are even :shrugs:

[mas129]

Only Kubo can answer this question.

[BerserkEdge]

Too early to tell

[TheHokage]

It's difficult to speculate since they are both OP but I'd say Mugetsu was stronger than Yamamoto, and this is only due to Ichigo being able to stop a blow from Aizen with his bare hand and breaking a high level Kido even when it was combined with hogokyou (Can't spell it) plus Mugetsu is an unbelievable attack that anyone other than Aizen would of killed, Aizen only survived due to his fast regeneration.

Also Aizen's monster form is either stronger or on the same level as Yamamoto and saying it isn't is clear favoritism as Aizen had surpassed both Shinigami and Hollow, yet Ichigo was above him and by quite a bit I may add if Aizen still couldn't sense his power.

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57474-...apter-420.html

Finally Ichigo seems to be able to shrug of burns lol

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57322-...apter-419.html

Here however his burns are gone.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-57630-...apter-421.html

Now I know I may sound like a fanboy but I can admit Yamamoto is far stronger than the current Ichigo, I just think Mugetsu might be the final evolution of Ichigo's bankai.

[Temporary Account]

Yammamoto is the strongest character we've seen so far in Bleach. The only plausible characters I see defeating him are members of the Royal Guard and/or the Soul King, if in fact she/he is a shinigami.

[kotoamatsukami]

It's difficult to speculate since they are both OP but I'd say Mugetsu was stronger than Yamamoto, and this is only due to Ichigo being able to stop a blow from Aizen with his bare hand and breaking a high level Kido even when it was combined with hogokyou (Can't spell it) plus Mugetsu is an unbelievable attack that anyone other than Aizen would of killed, Aizen only survived due to his fast regeneration.

Also Aizen's monster form is either stronger or on the same level as Yamamoto and saying it isn't is clear favoritism as Aizen had surpassed both Shinigami and Hollow, yet Ichigo was above him and by quite a bit I may add if Aizen still couldn't sense his power.

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57474-...apter-420.html

Finally Ichigo seems to be able to shrug of burns lol

http://www.mangareader.net/94-57322-...apter-419.html

Here however his burns are gone.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-57630-...apter-421.html

Now I know I may sound like a fanboy but I can admit Yamamoto is far stronger than the current Ichigo, I just think Mugetsu might be the final evolution of Ichigo's bankai.

Naw he made wonderwisse for a reason he knew he would be killed by Yamamoto if not had made it..Yamamoto bankai is stronger than mugetsu an aizen last form..ichigo or aizen can't even Stand close to him without suffering from heat an be leave me he won't just stop Yamamoto sword with his hand I bet that..

Aizen said he was stronger than shinigami an everything but got beat by a half soul reaper he was not as strong as he claimed to be.

[lesley]

Naw he made wonderwisse for a reason he knew he would be killed by Yamamoto if not had made it..Yamamoto bankai is stronger than mugetsu an aizen last form..ichigo or aizen can't even Stand close to him without suffering from heat an be leave me he won't just stop Yamamoto sword with his hand I bet that..

Aizen said he was stronger than shinigami an everything but got beat by a half soul reaper he was not as strong as he claimed to be.

this

[mlickko]

This is kinda useless theory
Yamamoto is the strongest Shingami. yes.
But Ichigo in his Post-Dangai form wasn't even a shingami...he was a transcendent being of higher dimension. He was a complete and perfect hybrid. I'm not underestimating Yamamoto, it's just a simple fact.
On top of that... we can even take an amount of reiatsu they possess.
Yamamoto is insane in his bankai, but can be still clearly felt.
Ichigo however couldn't be felt even by Aizen is his last form.
So reiatsu wise Ichigo had loads more.
Power - Ichigo smashed mountains with only air pressure oh the swing of his sword. Yamamoto did nothing like that and he's been swinging his sword a lot.
Ichigo's durability was so great that even cero ball that last form of Aizen sent at him only burned him slightly, it wasn't even a noticable injury for Ichigo. I'm sorry but that blast would have hurt Yamamoto a lot more. That his bankai envelops him in hot fire-cloak doesn't mean jack in front of that attack.
Ichigo's mugetsu, as someone already said, cuts through anything.

It's clear that right now Ichigo would end up dead if he went against Yamamoto's bankai. But his Post-Dangai form?
If you believe that a shingami Yamamoto could beat a transcendent Ichigo is preposterous.

[TheHokage]

This is kinda useless theory
Yamamoto is the strongest Shingami. yes.
But Ichigo in his Post-Dangai form wasn't even a shingami...he was a transcendent being of higher dimension. He was a complete and perfect hybrid. I'm not underestimating Yamamoto, it's just a simple fact.
On top of that... we can even take an amount of reiatsu they possess.
Yamamoto is insane in his bankai, but can be still clearly felt.
Ichigo however couldn't be felt even by Aizen is his last form.
So reiatsu wise Ichigo had loads more.
Power - Ichigo smashed mountains with only air pressure oh the swing of his sword. Yamamoto did nothing like that and he's been swinging his sword a lot.
Ichigo's durability was so great that even cero ball that last form of Aizen sent at him only burned him slightly, it wasn't even a noticable injury for Ichigo. I'm sorry but that blast would have hurt Yamamoto a lot more. That his bankai envelops him in hot fire-cloak doesn't mean jack in front of that attack.
Ichigo's mugetsu, as someone already said, cuts through anything.

It's clear that right now Ichigo would end up dead if he went against Yamamoto's bankai. But his Post-Dangai form?
If you believe that a shingami Yamamoto could beat a transcendent Ichigo is preposterous.

This

Also I'm not going to listen to someone who believes Byakuya can defeat Urahara.

[Calbackshoot3r]

Post-Dangai Ichigo has more reitsu, but Yama has better abilities.

Someone with less reitsu can defeat someone with more. Was shown before Ichigo even went to SS when Byakuya owned him and after he said Ichigo had more than him. So reitsu doesn't mean everything if you don't have the abilities and experience to go with it. Yama's thousands of years perfecting his bankai, gaining experience, and his fundamental abilities > Post-Dangai Ichigo. However in reitsu Post-Dangai Ichigo > Yama

All in all though Yama would win a fight.

The statement about Yama being the strongest Reaper alive was never contradicted. Even considering all of the power and hax Aizen had he made it a priority to seal Yama's flames because he was intelligently scared/worried about Yama.

Also, when Yama said in the last chapter that Ichigo still has a lot of abilities and his bankai is simply not at it's 100% poptential backs it up too.

[lesley]

Post-Dangai Ichigo has more reitsu, but Yama has better abilities.

Someone with less reitsu can defeat someone with more. Was shown before Ichigo even went to SS when Byakuya owned him and after he sad Ichigo had more than him. So reitsu doesn't mean everything if you don't have the abilities and experience to go with it. Yama's thousands of years perfecting his bankai, gaining experience, and his fundamental abilities > Post-Dangai Ichigo. However in reitsu Post-Dangai Ichigo > Yama

All in all though Yama would win a fight.

The statement about Yama being the strongest Reaper alive was never contradicted. Even considering all of the power and hax Aizen had he made it a priority to seal Yama's flames because he was intelligently scared/worried about Yama.

Also, when Yama said in the last chapter that Ichigo still has a lot of abilities and his bankai is simply not at it's 100% poptential backs it up too.

i'll go with this

[niblack89]

I Don't Know Ichigo with one swing can demolish an entire mountain with his old bankai. The new bankai would get demolished by the old man. The mugetsu is Ichigo's most powerful attack and there's no way of blocking it. I'd say mugetsu wins. It'll be a good match up between mugetsu against the old man's north attack since they look similar in they cut down anything in there path.

[kotoamatsukami]

I Don't Know Ichigo with one swing can demolish an entire mountain with his old bankai. The new bankai would get demolished by the old man. The mugetsu is Ichigo's most powerful attack and there's no way of blocking it. I'd say mugetsu wins. It'll be a good match up between mugetsu against the old man's north attack since they look similar in they cut down anything in there path.

I'm pretty sure Yamamoto can turn a mountain to nOthing with one swing...I don't even think ichigo can get close to him an mugetsu is only good for one attack so if Yamamoto dodge or block it with his attack it's all over for ichigo.

[TheHokage]

I'm pretty sure Yamamoto can turn a mountain to nOthing with one swing...I don't even think ichigo can get close to him an mugetsu is only good for one attack so if Yamamoto dodge or block it with his attack it's all over for ichigo.

Ichigo's attacks are long to mid range and Mugetsu will kill anyone who doesn't have that Hogyoku there's no evidence that Yamamoto could dodge either as Aizen was faster than Yamamoto as he was a transcended being.

Mugetsu/Dangai Ichigo > Yamamoto

Yamamoto > (Present) Ichigo

[kit]

I'm pretty sure Yamamoto can turn a mountain to nOthing with one swing...I don't even think ichigo can get close to him an mugetsu is only good for one attack so if Yamamoto dodge or block it with his attack it's all over for ichigo.

This. I guess some people forget Yamamoto did this:

And this was done with just the tip of his sword.