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  1. #181
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    CL:

    Barcelona VS Leverkusen --- 3-1

    Sanchez put in two goals and they were respectively set up by Messi and Fabregas.

    Messi scored, which was set up by Alves, but all the work started from Messi and than he cashed in to make it 7 goals in 6 games in UEFA and has 4 assists to go with that.
    It's late; so I'll reply to your other post next time. Especially to the Evra-Suarez. In fact, I was going to speak a lot concerning this topic but restrained myself a bit since I felt it was a touchy subject. Since you seem interested in it, all so well - I'll be happy to engage into this discussion.

    As for the CL -

    I find it a good match by Barca but perhaps, I was expecting a statement from them after the disillusion in Liga and that didn't really come. But a very concentrated match.

    Leverkusen tried what they could. Defended well in first well. One mistake was fatal and forced them to expose themselves. It paid once and nearly twice with Castro's touching the post. But on a long run, the exposure had a negative effect and Barca scored and got quite some chances. Since it's an Away victory, I'd say it's almost certain they are qualified for 1/4 finals.

    It's another record for Messi btw - [Here]

    In the other match, Lyon valiantly and intelligently grabbed a 1-0 Home Win against APOEL.
     
         

  2. #182
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    It's late; so I'll reply to your other post next time. Especially to the Evra-Suarez. In fact, I was going to speak a lot concerning this topic but restrained myself a bit since I felt it was a touchy subject. Since you seem interested in it, all so well - I'll be happy to engage into this discussion.

    As for the CL -

    I find it a good match by Barca but perhaps, I was expecting a statement from them after the disillusion in Liga and that didn't really come. But a very concentrated match.

    Leverkusen tried what they could. Defended well in first well. One mistake was fatal and forced them to expose themselves. It paid once and nearly twice with Castro's touching the post. But on a long run, the exposure had a negative effect and Barca scored and got quite some chances. Since it's an Away victory, I'd say it's almost certain they are qualified for 1/4 finals.

    It's another record for Messi btw - [Here]

    In the other match, Lyon valiantly and intelligently grabbed a 1-0 Home Win against APOEL.
    Not a problem. I only spoke of the subject, because a friend got me involved. I spoke to many United or Liverpool fans, who are friends of mine who gave opinions on this matter and some who like neither lol so not the whole thing is my wording took some example, opinions off them

    I was hoping to see an impact also, but glad to see Inesita return after the 3 week injury he was out for. I was hoping for a lot more goals also, but than again as long as they can win its good lol Messi will only increase the record for that, and make it harder for others to pass. I can see Ronaldo putting in a good number of goals this CL campaign tho.

    Leverkusen played a great game and had some chances, unfortunately couldn't finish them and Barcelona made them play. Also Barcelona had some great chances which they couldn't get to work.
     
         

  3. #183
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    I'll say this, its not always the case that a midfielder is behind a victory, but neither are strikers.

    Some examples, Xavi and Messi set up both goals VS Madrid in the 2-1 victory and both were scored by their defenders.

    At the end it's a shared task to lead to victory. They have their own responsibility and if you can complete the task great, and some of 'optional' tasks as you've stated. It's not always the midfield or strikers who carry to victory their are times when defense or GK come up big (eg: Puyol goal in the WC VS Paraguay). In a season a striker can have a big influence in majority of the wins, or in a tourment, and the same can go for midfielders (Sneijder as example to 2009/2010). Their is a reason why Xavi/Inesita have been in the ballon d'or top 5 along with Messi and Ronaldo in the past 3 years.

    I know Kun was a huge part in Athletico, but my main point I meant to get out was what did he accomplish there? If he had midfielders like Xavi/Inesita, how would he look than? Or what would he have accomplished?

    This question can vary, but IMO at the moment they would need strikers simply due to the fact Villa is injured, Sanchez is more of a winger not a CS, and Pedro is in and out of injuries, but their have also been times where they need midfield more than strikers, so it varies. This can go with many other clubs also.






    The vids should already have answered your question were as midfielder can do the same and play as strikers. As you've stated strikers set up another striker and midfield set up another midfield. This can vary in many ways. At the end who ever has the best chance they go for it, if a defender is wide open and at the opposing end he can also put the ball in or even set up a striker/midfielder.





    Two solo goals scored by two midfielders, so they can also score solo, but the fact remains scoring is not necessary for them. Lets not forget Iniesita plays as a midfielder, but many times for Spain he has played as striker/winger.

    In conclusion there have been many games played were a striker was a big influence in a victory, but so were midfield and at times both have been exceptionally well (Eg: United VS Barcelona in 2009 and 2011, Barcelona midfield and strikers played well, which led them to victory and lets not forget the beating Madrid got 5-0).


    Well, I think we can safely conclude that we agree on one main point.

    - The shares of importance of midfielders and strikers is not the same in all club.

    The styles, impact and talent are diverse between strikers and midfielders and the influence is not the same in every team.

    The question about who complement each other more surely shall remain unanswered like forever....So, on this note, I'll end this debate which been pretty interesting as with the deepened analysis; we were enriched by learning a more complex roles about these two - midfielders and strikers - and also got to know the core tactic of many teams better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    Well Barcelona have a long way to climb, and in order for them to clinch La Liga they can't lose a game from here to the end and hope for Madrid to draw, or lose some to close the distance or take the lead, but honestly speaking I can't see that.

    As the game goes it has been consistency with Madrid giving up the first goal, lets not for get the first goal was scored and another goal when Levante was down to 10 man, also this Levante side has the oldest players, so it wasn't too bad, but something Madrid should think about.

    As far as CL go Madrid have had great ran along with Napoli, and Arsenal. Barcelona, Milan, Inter, Munich, and Chelsea are going up and down ATM, but anything is possible and the German league is quite interesting ATM also.


    I'll agree completely on this.

    Can Barca turn this Liga upside down? Possible but too doubtful.

    Does Barca has a chance? Mathematically, yes! But frankly, no!

    If I had to pin-point the biggest woes of Madrid against teams other than Barcelona - then I'd say it's the constant way to concede the opener. It could be detrimental.

    Unfortunately, I don't follow German League as much. Quite a little only. At my place, the broadcasting is more for EPL, Liga and Ligue 1. Serie A come next and then German Leagues; followed by Portuguese league, Eridivesie and some other matches like that...

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    I want to speak about this entire thing surrounding Suarez/Evra and so forth.

    I think FA was harsh and made the decision to quick. We can say that Evra in the past has made false accuistion, as far as I know no body knew what was being said expect for Evra and Suarez, and I doubt Suarez English is that good, or it was said in Spanish and as we know sometimes translating words into English seem to come out wrong.

    Before I begin I don't mean offense to anyone, so forgive me if anyone does find this offensive.

    Suarez indicated that he didn't racially abuse Evra, but indeed he said the term 'Negro' to him, which means black in Spanish last I heard black wasn't a racist word unless some said something a long the line. "you 'b' SOB."

    "The word “Negro” is used in the English-speaking world to refer to a person of black ancestry or appearance, whether of African descent or not. The word negro means 'black' in Spanish and Portuguese, from the Latin niger, 'black', probably from a Proto-Indo-European root *nekw-, 'to be dark', akin to *nokw- 'night'."

    So, Suarez admitted (he spoke the truth) for using that term, unlike some in the past who deny it. In South America it is a common word, but Suarez stated he didn't mean it in a racially way, which for obvious reason some people think (mainly Man U fans).

    Suarez should have first been given some courtesy for speaking the truth at least, but at the end all they had were Evra word and the second Suarez admitted using the word, but not in a racially way, case closed.

    The word is perfectly acceptable on it's own. It's harmless and it's ludicrous to think otherwise. In today society the word has died down as many 'black' think it is racist. In context, if the intention is to use it as a racial slur, then that would be a different situation, as Evra is trying to state it being said. The past has not been to well for poor old Evra here crying wolf.

    These are names of some places...

    United Negro College Fund

    NCNW, the National Council of Negro Women, Inc

    NLBPA, the Negro League Baseball Players Association

    As Evra states he said he racially abused him, but Suarez denied the claim. Ibra punched a guy 1-2 weeks a go 3 match ban, Rooney kicked a guy 2 match ban, Pepe stepped on Messi hand nothing, and Suarez gets a 8 match ban, which the offender word was taken on. Harsh or not?



    Evra clearly provoked the incident. I'm not saying Suarez was not at fault, but notice how Evra puts his hand out to others, but Suarez comes his hand is lowered like he was expecting Suarez to put his hand out. It could be simply a misunderstanding from both after a heated a few months espeically Suarez facing a 8 match ban, which he believes was for the wrong reason. Evra reaction was a bit overboard despite him being captain, and he should have ignored it. The way he pointed at the camera was just stupid. Ferdinand reaction was no better, it was as disgusting. Suarez would have been given the bad name alone, but in my books these two were not better than Suarez.

    In Suarez point of view he is now known as a racist to the 'black' community. In today society majority of the time the 'blacks' cry wolf to racism.

    SaF the respect I have for him, but he also tries to provoke things. In a interview he labelled Suarez as a disgrace to LFC, but his players reaction was no better, he included saying LFC should sell Suarez. I remember where Schmeichel dropped the 'N' bomb Wright , but yet he remained with United. That being said if Suarez was with United and the incident happen I doubt they would have done anything Sadly Rooney even handled the situation better than SaF.


    I'll put things clear first. There are 5 people surrounding this whole thing and influenced this whole scandal (I deem it's prompt to call this situation like that)

    Those 5 are:

    - The Liverpool Football Club and Dalgish
    - Sir Alex and Manchester United Club
    - Patrice Evra
    - Luis Suarez
    - Liverpool Supporters.

    In my eyes, the biggest responsible for what happened at the United v/s Liverpool match is the Liverpool FC. More on that later but first let's get to the word analysis and whether Suarez is really at fault or not.

    I'm grateful that you did all these researches (it helps me considerably) but still, Evra is a victim of racial abuse nonetheless. If you see the first time, he accused Suarez after the first match, he was really shocked and seemed on the verge of tears. Evra is not an angel and perhaps, this matter would have better been sealed within the players but still, what Suarez did was despicable.

    The word may be allowed and acceptable in many countries and in the South American but he has been stupid. He has come to play in England and by respect of the virtue of being a professional football club, he should atleast know things that may create stir in the country he is. I'm clear on one thing - When you come into a country, you can live your life your way but cannot impose it. He said it more than

    If someone is from a country where crime is legal and comes into another and steals something. That still makes him a criminal nonetheless; by laws and by natural logic. I know I'm going overboard and what Suzrez did isn't as grave as that but I think, you get the point. And Suarez has been here for more than a year now and even if he was honest in admitting what word he said, he is guilty. Just for the info - the word is considered a bit racist at my place. Whether the word is ludicrous or not, it's far from a nice thing to say. As per reports, he said that word more than 10 times and that's pretty disgraceful.

    Now, up to the incident of the handshake and so on...

    Well, Suarez was a complete idiot but it's Liverpool who messed this up. As their Club duties, they should have come and tell Suarez with vigor that whatever you think of Evra and whether you deem yourself wrong or right, for your own image and the Club's reputation, you should shake Evra's hand and end this thing. The higher ups, the legends, the staffs ect... should have been more forceful on this. Dalgish was too lineant - he was like "Okay, Luiz, deep inside me I know you're right but please shake Evra's hand nonetheless".

    That's not what he should have done as a coach. Dalgish deemed this whole thing as a petty situation and with Suarez a definite think-headed and stubborn player in his mindset, he almost feel encourage to snub Evra. This matter took dramatic proportions because of this poor way to handle the matter which obviously was going to be stirred up in all ways by the media.

    Liverpool's image took a heavy blow after Suarez's actions. Suarez has a wrong mentality but he has been encouraged for that attitude somewhere by the lineant Liverpool staffs and the supporters. Whether, his ban was unjustified or not, fact is that he's been accused of racism and you are promoting racism when you are defending him with chants, charts, messages and even tribute shirts. I know 8 match seemed harsh when we've seen worse actions and seemed in my eyes too initially. But frankly, after the incident, I didn't feel it wrong in any way. On the contrary, I find it insufficient. This 8 match ban was handed to him mainly so that he humbled himself over what he did and show some kind of remorse, but that d**khead was just all more despicable in his actions and more fueled up to show his ugly side. The 8 match ban certainly wasn't handed for that

    Take Rooney as you said, after all his actions - in this season, he hasn't been handed a single yellow card. Atleast, that shows someone who understood that it's better to get the better over your past deeds and show some kind of remorse. Even Ibra has been doing a much more calmer season since that ban.

    Moreover, Suarez wasn't only responsible in that handshake matter and for insulting Evra. He also kicked the ball towards the United staff before halftime, tried to kick Evra with the ball twice also. He also kicked Scott Parker in the ribs on his return. And you think this player did not deserve an 8 match ban. For the racial words, perhaps but for his disgusting actions and stubborn non-remorseful attitude, it is more than deserving.

    I'll get back on Liverpool' image. This Suarez incident spoiled the club's image considerably; thank to media obviously. But then again, they attracted all these by themselves. In case you don't know, the reason why Suarez apologized after the match on the Website was not because of regret or the loss of the match, it was because 'Standard Chartered' - the major sponsor - of LFC went furious and pressured Dalgish and Co. to make Suarez apologies cause they found it extremely disgraceful for the image of LFC. This kind of initiative by higher-ups should have been done before the match, so that this whole thing would have never occurred.

    And United and SAF and Co. were very dignified on this. They responded to the apology merely 10 minutes after it had been issued by LFC. They also rightfully convinced Evra before the match to bury the issue which unfortunately didn't happen. Here is Sir Bobby Charlton & Ian Callaghan who asked for the tension to be defuse before that match which also unfortunately didn't happen. United also constantly ask in the week prior of this match to Evra; thing that Liverpool didn't do.

    As for the handshake, I don't get how Evra provoked this incident. Suarez may think that what was done to him was unfair like you said. Evra has a part of fault but Suarez was worse in this. Unfair or not, it wasn't Evra who said profanities on him. Evra is a victim. If snub there needed to be, it's victim who shall have do it, not the guilty. He's was recognized guilty by FA whether he accepts it or not and by such, he had no rights to be stubborn like he did. In my eyes and my philosophy, I can't defend Evra fully and barely can justify what Suarez did. But I'll defend Ferdinand. His brother, Anton was victim of racial abuse by Terry and Rio was an ardent defender of anti-racism. At that moment in his eyes, he just saw a racist who just snubbed Evra. He surely feel that it was very lowly and couldn't get himself to shake his hand. His face clearly showed disgust at that time.

    Wow, this is getting long... Two last things on SAF and Evra.

    SAF's words were harsh considering past events with Schmeichel or Keane but then again, I felt the same after the match just ended. So perhaps, it was instant reaction words. But also, he quickly accepted that it was better if this matter was solved and calmed the quickest. And on that part, I'll agree fully and I persist, it was something that should have been done before the match. Dalgish interview was worse though as he denied seeing Suarez snubbing the handshake and he kept to try evade the questions even as the journalist kept preaching for the truth (I don't know who was that guy but he has brilliant journalist talents). He even defended Suarez at a point again. But still, as much as I see SAF's interview as one who which was due to instant emotion and feeling of what occurred minutes ago, that of Dalgish was completely lie and false. In case you don't know, this wasn't the first interview Dalgish gave after the match and the corridors of the interviews had more than 12 TVs where the events - including the handshake - was repeatedly being telecast. Even if he was late during the handshake process, it's impossible that he didn't saw it on TV before that interview.

    On Evra's celebration, it was excessive but oh well, he was jeered continuously in the Cup's match and Suarez also did an excessive celebration in his lodge in the Cup match when Kuyt scored the last goal. There were too much events to qualify this part as the most despicable one and neither was it equally disgraceful as the other events.

    For me, the most disgraceful part of this affair was the complete stubbornness and lack of diligence of Suarez and the most regretful part of this was the thing that caused this - the Liverpool Club, staff and supporters itself.

    EDIT: I missed the 2nd half of Milan/Arsenal completely with this reply,
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Arsenal :lmao: Excellent show by Milan.
     
         

  5. #185
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    I'll never bet on Inter again .These goats are loosing 0-2
     
         
    Last edited by itachi49; 02-17-2012 at 08:48 PM.

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by itachi49 View Post
    I'll never bet on Inter again .These goats are loosing 0-2
    That's the thing with Inter. Every time you bet on them to win, they lose.
    And when they are facing impossible odds away from hom, and you bet they will lose, they win

    0-3 btw.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    quadruple trick from Messi :D
     
         
    Last edited by itachi49; 02-19-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  8. #188
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Sorry for the late response had midterms got really busy and going to go vacation soon to Italy I typed this in a hurry, so sorry for any confusion and things not making sense lol

    Well, I think we can safely conclude that we agree on one main point.

    - The shares of importance of midfielders and strikers is not the same in all club.

    The styles, impact and talent are diverse between strikers and midfielders and the influence is not the same in every team.

    The question about who complement each other more surely shall remain unanswered like forever....So, on this note, I'll end this debate which been pretty interesting as with the deepened analysis; we were enriched by learning a more complex roles about these two - midfielders and strikers - and also got to know the core tactic of many teams better.
    True, but a team with both complete midfielders and strikers will prevail most the times.

    Exactly I don't really think there can be a right or wrong answer to that question TBH.

    I'll agree completely on this.

    Can Barca turn this Liga upside down? Possible but too doubtful.

    Does Barca has a chance? Mathematically, yes! But frankly, no!

    If I had to pin-point the biggest woes of Madrid against teams other than Barcelona - then I'd say it's the constant way to concede the opener. It could be detrimental.

    Unfortunately, I don't follow German League as much. Quite a little only. At my place, the broadcasting is more for EPL, Liga and Ligue 1. Serie A come next and then German Leagues; followed by Portuguese league, Eridivesie and some other matches like that...
    Well it seems Madrid have had a bit of a shock with the draw in Russia and than just barely winning in La Liga, but Barcelona had no better except for that fact they faced a more superior opponent and A. Madrid have played well recently. If Madrid keep up like this and Barcelona improve its possible for them to win the title.

    At one point in Germany league 4-5 clubs were at #1, except GD was the difference.

    I'll put things clear first. There are 5 people surrounding this whole thing and influenced this whole scandal (I deem it's prompt to call this situation like that)

    Those 5 are:

    - The Liverpool Football Club and Dalgish
    - Sir Alex and Manchester United Club
    - Patrice Evra
    - Luis Suarez
    - Liverpool Supporters.

    In my eyes, the biggest responsible for what happened at the United v/s Liverpool match is the Liverpool FC. More on that later but first let's get to the word analysis and whether Suarez is really at fault or not.

    I'm grateful that you did all these researches (it helps me considerably) but still, Evra is a victim of racial abuse nonetheless. If you see the first time, he accused Suarez after the first match, he was really shocked and seemed on the verge of tears. Evra is not an angel and perhaps, this matter would have better been sealed within the players but still, what Suarez did was despicable.

    The word may be allowed and acceptable in many countries and in the South American but he has been stupid. He has come to play in England and by respect of the virtue of being a professional football club, he should atleast know things that may create stir in the country he is. I'm clear on one thing - When you come into a country, you can live your life your way but cannot impose it. He said it more than

    If someone is from a country where crime is legal and comes into another and steals something. That still makes him a criminal nonetheless; by laws and by natural logic. I know I'm going overboard and what Suzrez did isn't as grave as that but I think, you get the point. And Suarez has been here for more than a year now and even if he was honest in admitting what word he said, he is guilty. Just for the info - the word is considered a bit racist at my place. Whether the word is ludicrous or not, it's far from a nice thing to say. As per reports, he said that word more than 10 times and that's pretty disgraceful.

    Now, up to the incident of the handshake and so on...

    Well, Suarez was a complete idiot but it's Liverpool who messed this up. As their Club duties, they should have come and tell Suarez with vigor that whatever you think of Evra and whether you deem yourself wrong or right, for your own image and the Club's reputation, you should shake Evra's hand and end this thing. The higher ups, the legends, the staffs ect... should have been more forceful on this. Dalgish was too lineant - he was like "Okay, Luiz, deep inside me I know you're right but please shake Evra's hand nonetheless".

    That's not what he should have done as a coach. Dalgish deemed this whole thing as a petty situation and with Suarez a definite think-headed and stubborn player in his mindset, he almost feel encourage to snub Evra. This matter took dramatic proportions because of this poor way to handle the matter which obviously was going to be stirred up in all ways by the media.

    Liverpool's image took a heavy blow after Suarez's actions. Suarez has a wrong mentality but he has been encouraged for that attitude somewhere by the lineant Liverpool staffs and the supporters. Whether, his ban was unjustified or not, fact is that he's been accused of racism and you are promoting racism when you are defending him with chants, charts, messages and even tribute shirts. I know 8 match seemed harsh when we've seen worse actions and seemed in my eyes too initially. But frankly, after the incident, I didn't feel it wrong in any way. On the contrary, I find it insufficient. This 8 match ban was handed to him mainly so that he humbled himself over what he did and show some kind of remorse, but that d**khead was just all more despicable in his actions and more fueled up to show his ugly side. The 8 match ban certainly wasn't handed for that

    Take Rooney as you said, after all his actions - in this season, he hasn't been handed a single yellow card. Atleast, that shows someone who understood that it's better to get the better over your past deeds and show some kind of remorse. Even Ibra has been doing a much more calmer season since that ban.

    Moreover, Suarez wasn't only responsible in that handshake matter and for insulting Evra. He also kicked the ball towards the United staff before halftime, tried to kick Evra with the ball twice also. He also kicked Scott Parker in the ribs on his return. And you think this player did not deserve an 8 match ban. For the racial words, perhaps but for his disgusting actions and stubborn non-remorseful attitude, it is more than deserving.

    I'll get back on Liverpool' image. This Suarez incident spoiled the club's image considerably; thank to media obviously. But then again, they attracted all these by themselves. In case you don't know, the reason why Suarez apologized after the match on the Website was not because of regret or the loss of the match, it was because 'Standard Chartered' - the major sponsor - of LFC went furious and pressured Dalgish and Co. to make Suarez apologies cause they found it extremely disgraceful for the image of LFC. This kind of initiative by higher-ups should have been done before the match, so that this whole thing would have never occurred.

    And United and SAF and Co. were very dignified on this. They responded to the apology merely 10 minutes after it had been issued by LFC. They also rightfully convinced Evra before the match to bury the issue which unfortunately didn't happen. Here is Sir Bobby Charlton & Ian Callaghan who asked for the tension to be defuse before that match which also unfortunately didn't happen. United also constantly ask in the week prior of this match to Evra; thing that Liverpool didn't do.

    As for the handshake, I don't get how Evra provoked this incident. Suarez may think that what was done to him was unfair like you said. Evra has a part of fault but Suarez was worse in this. Unfair or not, it wasn't Evra who said profanities on him. Evra is a victim. If snub there needed to be, it's victim who shall have do it, not the guilty. He's was recognized guilty by FA whether he accepts it or not and by such, he had no rights to be stubborn like he did. In my eyes and my philosophy, I can't defend Evra fully and barely can justify what Suarez did. But I'll defend Ferdinand. His brother, Anton was victim of racial abuse by Terry and Rio was an ardent defender of anti-racism. At that moment in his eyes, he just saw a racist who just snubbed Evra. He surely feel that it was very lowly and couldn't get himself to shake his hand. His face clearly showed disgust at that time.

    Wow, this is getting long... Two last things on SAF and Evra.

    SAF's words were harsh considering past events with Schmeichel or Keane but then again, I felt the same after the match just ended. So perhaps, it was instant reaction words. But also, he quickly accepted that it was better if this matter was solved and calmed the quickest. And on that part, I'll agree fully and I persist, it was something that should have been done before the match. Dalgish interview was worse though as he denied seeing Suarez snubbing the handshake and he kept to try evade the questions even as the journalist kept preaching for the truth (I don't know who was that guy but he has brilliant journalist talents). He even defended Suarez at a point again. But still, as much as I see SAF's interview as one who which was due to instant emotion and feeling of what occurred minutes ago, that of Dalgish was completely lie and false. In case you don't know, this wasn't the first interview Dalgish gave after the match and the corridors of the interviews had more than 12 TVs where the events - including the handshake - was repeatedly being telecast. Even if he was late during the handshake process, it's impossible that he didn't saw it on TV before that interview.

    On Evra's celebration, it was excessive but oh well, he was jeered continuously in the Cup's match and Suarez also did an excessive celebration in his lodge in the Cup match when Kuyt scored the last goal. There were too much events to qualify this part as the most despicable one and neither was it equally disgraceful as the other events.

    For me, the most disgraceful part of this affair was the complete stubbornness and lack of diligence of Suarez and the most regretful part of this was the thing that caused this - the Liverpool Club, staff and supporters itself.

    EDIT: I missed the 2nd half of Milan/Arsenal completely with this reply,
    Well its obvious that the club/players/management/supporter would be behind there players at the end. We all saw what Pepe did, but yet Mou and Madrid took Pepe word on it and supported him at the end despite seeing the video replay. Suarez case there was no evidence and in fact him speaking the truth got him in trouble, which became the only evidence in the case.

    I would like to bring in an example here, I'm sorry if you feel it may be relevant, but it has helped some understand before. The term "Soccer" is used in country like Canada and America despite the true name being football, but because America wanted football for their sport they changed it down here. If people come from Europe they have the habit of saying football, and most people here think they are referring to American "football", but its a habit and the same can go to someone going to England and calling it Soccer. Some people do take this offensive as they like the proper term being used for the sport and some believe its disrespectful to call it Soccer. Nevertheless the culture difference comes in and the way the people were brought up. I know people who moved from Europe to here, but they still refer it as football, I know some who moved to Europe, and they still call it soccer. There are also people who adapted the themselves and use football is Europe and soccer in north america.

    You must be wondering what is the point I'm making here with that example, its simple, the way Suarez has been brought up and the place he has been in the term he used on Evra is used friendly, its a habit. The guy barely went to school and has no education, but yet everyone knows a simple football term, but can't refer it to the right sport. In other word even educated people can't realize term difference between the names and you expect and uneducated person to understand racially term when it is used commonly in his nation?

    Suarez grandmother had an interview, she said that as a kid Suarez was dark skin and her husband was African-American (Black), so that is in Suarez background. It's also been said as a kid she was use to call Suarez, by saying, "My little blacky boy." by using that term. He grow up as a kid hearing that and its obvious as time went on it become a habit, but in a none racially. I'm not saying a good habit, but as it said by many South Americans the term isn't meant racially, its not said by a selected few but a huge population.

    Ajax supporter/players also have Suarez side and even Ajax coach stated," Suarez makes stupid mistakes, but its hard to label him as a racist." Uruguay president even stepped in, these support may be invalid to some as its obvious they would support Suarez, but truth be told nothing has been proven other than Suarez, saying the term other than that nothing else has been proven. I can't take Evra word on it, even if he seemed upset, players can act on pitch, I'm sure they can act off, and seeing him after the handshake encounter, SaF said, he was mentally disturbed, but clearly it doesn't show that after the game.

    FA decisions are not golden, and they make mistakes. V. Kompany got a red for his two footed tackle VS United and a 3 match ban. The next week Liverpool Johnson did that to a City player yet I don't think anything was given.

    As far as the handshake incident goes I have to disagree with you on the fact that Evra was the victim if he desired he didn't have to put his hand out, infact Suarez should have put his hand toward Evra. The clubs spoke to both, so they should have been on equal grounds. Messi was a victim (Pepe did not even apologize to Messi), Ozil was a victim, the guy Ibra slapped was a victim, and Oslvado slapped his own teammate who was a victim, Mou poked Barcelona assistance manager as well as stepping on Cesc head but yet when these guys met their culprits, they shake hands in a neutral stance, so why does Evra get special treatment again? In my eyes he did have a hand in a provocation. Also they live in a democracy, so a person has the right to greet his guest, or not nevertheless.

    Rio F. was no better than Suarez in my eyes. He would have been the better one shaking hands rather than ignoring, so next time Evra and Suarez shake hands Rio will follow? As a kid my parents always got mad at me when I did bad things I would say my friend did it, so did I. This some what Rio did the way Suarez acted, so it doesn't make him the better person at the end.

    In case for Rooney and Ibra, they did the mistake, but look at the way there victim acted. Rooney victim wrote a letter to FA on forgiving Rooney as he knew it was intentionally done, and despite Suarez agreeing to his mistake what did Evra do? Evra should have consider that it is a word used commonly in South America, he could have spoken to FA and reduced it for Suarez honesty.

    Suarez is obviously upset and his anger is getting the most of him, other than FA saying he was racist without real valid evidence except Evra (victims) word. We already know about the term in South America and facing 8 match ban? I question myself what is going on with Terry case? They strip him of captaincy and still let him join the England roster for Euros and to top it off they aren't deciding his case till July? After the season where Chelsea can still fight in EPL and CL? So he may be banned for friendlies? or the first few games of EPL? If Suarez lied he would have been still playing and the case would eventually die out without enough evidence, and lets not forget everyone was quiet till FA declared Suarez racist along with Evra. Thats when people started talking.

    What gets on my nerve is, refs have to quit there job because certain team/coaches/media defame them for making a wrong/correct call, which result in death threats (Mou). There are players getting physically assaulted Rooney, Ibra, Osvaldo, and if Villa slapped Ozil him also, but yet it seems they get a slap on the wrist, but rather racism they take heavily? I don't mean to say racism is nothing, but I think physical abuse and threats should be top focused on heavily as well.



    John Barnes say it best regrading this matter. If this happen in other league it wouldn't have been a big problem the English are making it. They seem to think it would ruin English football.

    At the end Suarez made the dumb mistakes and now he will have to face the problems up ahead, but Evra was no angel in this matter and now the african american community is going to be on Suarez case. It all depends on the English media he may depart, but than again when Barcelona, Madrid, Milan want his services it won't be bad at all. The EPL will just make there competitors stronger that's all.

    CL:

    Barcelona cruised to an eazy win you can say. Milan and Arsenal I was expecting a big game, but Milan thrashed them. I knew Napoli was going to win, but didn't expect this scoreline, but a one goal or even a draw was expected. It was disappointing to see Bayern and Inter both losing. Madrid drew there game.

    I was asked a question, but was hard to answer, so I'll ask here. Who do you think has had the overall better performance between Fabregas and Sanchez? I know they can do better, but so far who. I lean towards Sanchez, I don't know why, but than Fabregas has added a lot also.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    @ReLax first - I'm sorry I couldn't reply to your post due to being busy. And right now, I think the Suarez/Evra topic is a pretty calm one; so i'll let it like that unless you want to re-start. We both wrote long wallies already on that and for now, perhaps there are more interesting and actual topics like the CL draws and the Leagues' results.

    Coming to CL Draw, I've already left my first thoughts in the thread, Mikey linked.

    To add on to it, I think the 8 teams' own situation will act as a catalyst in the await of the match. It can also be detrimental for some teams.

    Benfica fell into that 'detrimental' category. They are ahead by 4 points in the Portugal league but a lead that requires a determined heart to keep intact. They might leave much force in the fight for the League title till the 2nd Leg of Quarter final arrive.

    Milan is in a break or make situation. Dominant performances will provide them required confidence against Barca while points lost might be dangerous in both competitions.

    APOEL and Marseille have nothing to lose in this match being heavy underdogs. They'll be hoping for miracles and their league performances won't matter much.

    Bayern is on a roll. After 7-1 and 7-0, another huge win against Dortmund (6-0) this week. They are on rampage and with the CL Final being at Allianz Arena, their confidence will remain optimum at any cost.

    Real Madrid are comfortably on Liga throne and I see them as Liga Champions frankly. Barcelone are exceptional on CL and clearly will want the CL absolutely giving so many odds against them in Liga. However, Real will eye that CL also. So, despite being on diverse situations at Liga, both will focus on the CL as if this is the only objective.

    Real got an easier task obviously. I don't think any external factors that'll disturb any of the Spanish Giants to fumble besides key injuries. Speaking of injuries, wishing Abidal all the luck for his operation.

    Finally Chelsea who seemingly was only in an extended coma in the CL and did not die. Thus, made that stunning comeback. They were at such a low recently that their current win streak under DiMateo will boost their confidence at the optimum. Given they were hopeless weeks ago, I don't think something worse than that will hurt them before their Home-Away matches against Benfica. Even Torres scored today - their revival couldn't have been better.

    I won't say anything on United's elimination. They played awfully in that match. But as I said when they were reversed onto Europa, I knew Fergie won't play a team that'll be the real United and as I was right to keep very low expectations from Europa League.

    I saw a much better face atleast today in the 5-0 win against Wolves. They are 4 points ahead now and can calmly watch City match against Chelsea on Wednesday.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Liverpool & Chelsea are amongst the teams into the FA cup semi-finals, draw to follow shortly.

    -----------------------------------------

    FA Cup semi-final draw:

    Tottenham or Bolton v Chelsea

    Liverpool v Sunderland or Everton
     
         
    Last edited by Ryuu..; 03-18-2012 at 06:10 PM.

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Speaking of Tottenham v/s Bolton - wishing Fabrice Muamba luck and recovery.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    OMG...

    I haven't seen or heard anything to do with football till today just read and saw a few updates, but we seeing two awesome fixtures of CL semi and a final between Barca and Madrid unless Bayern and Chelsea have something to say. Messi and Ronaldo already hit 41 goals in La Liga! Messi killing it in CL also. Barcelona being by only 4 points now with the classico looming? Things are going crazy. I need more updates can some post them here I dont have too much time out of the country no internet were I am just got a hold of it now for a bit.

    I need vids to on some good games around the league

    Escorps get to work lol
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    OMG...

    I haven't seen or heard anything to do with football till today just read and saw a few updates, but we seeing two awesome fixtures of CL semi and a final between Barca and Madrid unless Bayern and Chelsea have something to say. Messi and Ronaldo already hit 41 goals in La Liga! Messi killing it in CL also. Barcelona being by only 4 points now with the classico looming? Things are going crazy. I need more updates can some post them here I dont have too much time out of the country no internet were I am just got a hold of it now for a bit.

    I need vids to on some good games around the league

    Escorps get to work lol
    Wait

    No internet and no football! What country is that? Tell me so that I can never visit it.

    I'll try to post updates for y'a as soon as possible. And there I thought what was happening to you and why there was no updates on this thread.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    I know this isnt really on topic , but with the Eurochampionship coming on its way we should make a weekly thread with people betting for results or who would win

    Like Country A vs Country B : "bet on A 50 kumi" the person who has most right gets all kumi from that weeks bets or somethin in those lines
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    This upcoming week must be the Week of The Year in Football season 2011/2012:

    Tuesday: CL; Bayern - Real.
    Wednesday: CL; Chelsea - Barca.
    Thursday: EL; Sporting - Bilbao and Atletico - Valencia.
    Saturday: BPL; Arsenal - Chelsea and Liga BBVA; Barca - Real.

    :overjoy::whoa:
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Barca vs Real, can't wait:D
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael92 View Post
    This upcoming week must be the Week of The Year in Football season 2011/2012:

    Tuesday: CL; Bayern - Real.
    Wednesday: CL; Chelsea - Barca.
    Thursday: EL; Sporting - Bilbao and Atletico - Valencia.
    Saturday: BPL; Arsenal - Chelsea and Liga BBVA; Barca - Real.

    :overjoy::whoa:
    Don't know if it's Week of the Year; as each week is crucial in a season and each match takes its importance but it's sure one hell of a week.

    Real-Bayern will be a touch 2-leg match. Even if Madrid seems the better team, Bayern are unpredictable. Bayern's biggest asset is not their team though - it's the will and focus to be in the Final in their Allianz Arena homeland. If Madrid are eliminated, it will because of that focus; not because they were outclassed.

    Barca-Chelsea: I won't go by thousands routes: I'm almost sure to see Barcelona qualify for Finals. But nonetheless, I'll root for Chelsea because:

    1. They fought with their heart to be the sole English representative.
    2. Sincerely, the Stamford Bridge Scandal should become payback-land.
    3. I don't want Barcelona to win the CL. As clear as that.

    There've been lots of bad mouthing of EPL and English teams recently. Despite, the fact that EPL teams have dominated the CL platform for last 5 years, they still dissed EPL teams on a poor performance in a single year. Chelsea eliminating the Catalans Giants would shut most cynics' mouth.

    I respect all Leagues and all Clubs; though I favor English teams and EPL. But nonetheless, it's wrong to say bad things on English teams just because they had a terrible year on European-level. EPL teams showed much more positive things than negative things in the last 5 years and thus, a 1-year judgment seem baseless.

    I'm gonna be annoyed if Bilbao are eliminated after beating United. Valencia and Athletico are almost evenly matched in my eyes and I'm sure, it's gonna be tight scores.

    Arsenal-Chelsea is crucial for that 4th place. Chelsea showed sparks on FA Cup against Spurs on Sunday and given a positive performance against Barcelona, they'll be dangers to Arsenal. Still, Arsenal seems in better shape at this end of the season and I see them winning against Chelsea.

    On a side note, a Draw will be a suspenseful result. It will keep both Arsenal and Chelsea's chances for CL alive but will also give more hope to Tottenham and Newcastle for CL.

    For United's sake, I hope Newcastle will be in strong position for CL qualification spot till the end of season. If yes, they'll be forced to give a hell of a battle against City.

    The Classico got much more importance than what I thought in last month. Madrid faltered a lot and their once-10 point gap is now much more measly. Nonetheless, I think they'll be Champions; regardless of Classico result.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Don't know if it's Week of the Year; as each week is crucial in a season and each match takes its importance but it's sure one hell of a week.

    Real-Bayern will be a touch 2-leg match. Even if Madrid seems the better team, Bayern are unpredictable. Bayern's biggest asset is not their team though - it's the will and focus to be in the Final in their Allianz Arena homeland. If Madrid are eliminated, it will because of that focus; not because they were outclassed.

    Barca-Chelsea: I won't go by thousands routes: I'm almost sure to see Barcelona qualify for Finals. But nonetheless, I'll root for Chelsea because:

    1. They fought with their heart to be the sole English representative.
    2. Sincerely, the Stamford Bridge Scandal should become payback-land.
    3. I don't want Barcelona to win the CL. As clear as that.

    There've been lots of bad mouthing of EPL and English teams recently. Despite, the fact that EPL teams have dominated the CL platform for last 5 years, they still dissed EPL teams on a poor performance in a single year. Chelsea eliminating the Catalans Giants would shut most cynics' mouth.

    I respect all Leagues and all Clubs; though I favor English teams and EPL. But nonetheless, it's wrong to say bad things on English teams just because they had a terrible year on European-level. EPL teams showed much more positive things than negative things in the last 5 years and thus, a 1-year judgment seem baseless.

    I'm gonna be annoyed if Bilbao are eliminated after beating United. Valencia and Athletico are almost evenly matched in my eyes and I'm sure, it's gonna be tight scores.

    Arsenal-Chelsea is crucial for that 4th place. Chelsea showed sparks on FA Cup against Spurs on Sunday and given a positive performance against Barcelona, they'll be dangers to Arsenal. Still, Arsenal seems in better shape at this end of the season and I see them winning against Chelsea.

    On a side note, a Draw will be a suspenseful result. It will keep both Arsenal and Chelsea's chances for CL alive but will also give more hope to Tottenham and Newcastle for CL.

    For United's sake, I hope Newcastle will be in strong position for CL qualification spot till the end of season. If yes, they'll be forced to give a hell of a battle against City.

    The Classico got much more importance than what I thought in last month. Madrid faltered a lot and their once-10 point gap is now much more measly. Nonetheless, I think they'll be Champions; regardless of Classico result.
    Each week is important yes, but I was more referring to all the big games this week, as this must be a record this year. Can't remember seeing more than 3 really big matches in one week this season, and this time we have 4 + 2 EL matches that should be of high caliber as well:D
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael92 View Post
    Each week is important yes, but I was more referring to all the big games this week, as this must be a record this year. Can't remember seeing more than 3 really big matches in one week this season, and this time we have 4 + 2 EL matches that should be of high caliber as well:D
    I'm sure, there were already high-profile clashes like this one in this season but I'm not good with dates I'm too lazy to go and compare weekly fixtures.

    Let's just say that it's gonna be a rocking week.
     
         

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