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  1. #226
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    It's not really a matter of how they were eliminated but it was how they played. They got humiliated by Netherlands in their group, couldn't clinch a win against Romania and survived only because France were a little worst that their worst team. Their team play was horrible. Even if they did won against Spain on shoot-outs, it would have been an unconvincing and lucky win.

    Their team is aging and that's exactly my point - they are no more the same glorious team. Sincerely, I doubt they'll do anything in this Euro 2012 but well, it's football. So let's watch.

    Germany did a f**kin' hard match with Extra-time with Argentina before playing Italy. Host country or not, they seemed tired in many moments in their match against Italy. They pressed and attacked with their will; but fatigue clearly obstructed them in some way along with Italy's rock defense.

    I know that in late 90s and early 2000s, Serie A ruled but that's my point. They ruled but it's matter of past now. No matter what they say about Spanish and Italian leagues, English league are still on top. Atleast, they still are in this 2012 - despite the poor display of most of their teams in CL.
    like is said in euro 2008 Italy practically bring their old generation player who already pass their golden age. they got what they deserve, bu still the manage to force team like Spain into penalty shoot out, they play well but lucj is not on their side anymore,

    well at least overall italy always played better in international tournament compared to England, who always get the 1st favorite but ended up become the biggest loser,

    well since 1998 i don't really see argentina as a great team ever since the best striker ever batistuta retired, and in that match its not really intense both team played carefully and germany has a lot capable player as substitute at that time so i doubt it affect their fatigue since klinsman know how to manage their team rotation


    NO.....NO ever since 2009 LA LIGA is the best league until now,
    even now in EL there is finale between Spain team
     
         

  2. #227
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    like is said in euro 2008 Italy practically bring their old generation player who already pass their golden age. they got what they deserve, bu still the manage to force team like Spain into penalty shoot out, they play well but lucj is not on their side anymore,

    well at least overall italy always played better in international tournament compared to England, who always get the 1st favorite but ended up become the biggest loser,

    well since 1998 i don't really see argentina as a great team ever since the best striker ever batistuta retired, and in that match its not really intense both team played carefully and germany has a lot capable player as substitute at that time so i doubt it affect their fatigue since klinsman know how to manage their team rotation

    NO.....NO ever since 2009 LA LIGA is the best league until now,
    even now in EL there is finale between Spain team
    True, England gets knocked out so many times but they are often very unlucky also. Like Rooney's red card in 2006 or the clear-goal of Lampard not given ect...England needs more luck and leader than talents; unlike Italy.

    Argentina has too many talents and thus, they are forced to be recognized as a Top team.

    I don't agree. Since 2009, Barcelona may be the Best Team but the Best league was and remains the English league in my eyes.

    The EL final doesn't prove much. Last year, there were 3 Portuguese teams in EL Semi-final but that never meant that Portuguese has the best league. Besides, a normal English league match still gets better TV Ratings and Views than Europa League matches. This shows the difference in importance.
     
         

  3. #228
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Well kind of late, but I'm still going to put down my input on last week and this week.

    Are loss to Chelsea in the first lag was bad. We had that game and dominated, but couldn't put the ball in the net at the end and Chelsea did. It came from a mistake from Messi (News flash: Messi has lost possession of the ball most this season.)

    The game VS Madrid was like rubbing salt on our wounds. This game we could have won and had are chance, but failed to capitalize and Madrid for the short time they had the ball played well and deserved the win (Their 2nd win out of 15-20 games VS us ).

    The 2nd lag VS Chelsea was just brutal. We played well and even had the red card advantage with us. We were up 2-0 and blow it to 2-2, 2 of Chelsea goal coming from 10 man team. They played a very tight defense and had Messi on lock down. There is not much to say, but respect to Chelsea for fighting this far and defeating Barcelona at least you finally got your vengeance from 2009? Make it count.

    We have a big problem as Escorps said years go on and we just become more attack base and use are possession style football as defense, but we can only get so far with it, as we need at least 3 good defenders, we have only two with Abidal out and getting older, so is Puyol. This is something I hope Tito does for us, and I hope he learned from Pep well. We also need height which is another downfall. Pique is like the tallest one, we have big troubles in set pieces especially against Madrid like are loss to them Xavi was marking Benzema in the corner set piece lol

    Well Madrid are out unlike Mou we didn't really need an excuse, it was just not meant for us this year and Chelsea played well. Mou based his loss off the game VS Barcelona, even tho we played a day earlier and he has many youth on his team compared to us. He also says that we lost due to the same reason and later tries to insult us by saying we took Chelsea so lightly like we did with Inter.

    Bayern played well, so did Madrid it was a heavyweight battle between the two, height, strength, youth, speed, and determination. I had this really good feeling Bayern was going to win I even called the scoreline out and called PK 2-1 score with 3-1 PK before the game and PK in favor of Bayern. I was at a PUB in Abu Dhabi well my flight landed there for 4 hrs and caught the game. The guy beside me was like how'd you know did the game come on late here lol

    Anyways final will be Bayern VS Chelsea...I will route for Bayern lol
     
         
    Last edited by ReLax -; 04-28-2012 at 07:04 AM.

  4. #229
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    True, England gets knocked out so many times but they are often very unlucky also. Like Rooney's red card in 2006 or the clear-goal of Lampard not given ect...England needs more luck and leader than talents; unlike Italy.

    Argentina has too many talents and thus, they are forced to be recognized as a Top team.

    I don't agree. Since 2009, Barcelona may be the Best Team but the Best league was and remains the English league in my eyes.

    The EL final doesn't prove much. Last year, there were 3 Portuguese teams in EL Semi-final but that never meant that Portuguese has the best league. Besides, a normal English league match still gets better TV Ratings and Views than Europa League matches. This shows the difference in importance.
    yeah unlike italy, since italy already have all (talent leader an luck) but sometimes luck is on their side,

    BOLD:i know what you mean with that, LMAO
    true in your eyes and in my point of view, LA LIGA is always entertaining,

    if you go by tv rating then EPL stomp :shrug:, but since i started watching football in 1996 i don't really into EPL, since i don't find it fascinating, because in my opinion the best league who have the best attack play is LA LIGA and the best defense belong to Serie A,

    overall EPL team don't have their own football method, most of them Adapting Netherlands Total Football, where all the player move to attack leaving 2 center back behind with 1 defensive midfielder stay in check

    you must be realize it by now english player is gradually decreasing in their own league, after rooney in 2004 i don't see any new english player who have the same capacity with rooney anymore,

    only arsenal now who still produce some skillful English player.
     
         
    Last edited by Totsuka No Tsurugi; 04-28-2012 at 07:31 AM.

  5. #230
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    Well kind of late, but I'm still going to put down my input on last week and this week.

    Are loss to Chelsea in the first lag was bad. We had that game and dominated, but couldn't put the ball in the net at the end and Chelsea did. It came from a mistake from Messi (News flash: Messi has lost possession of the ball most this season.)

    The game VS Madrid was like rubbing salt on our wounds. This game we could have won and had are chance, but failed to capitalize and Madrid for the short time they had the ball played well and deserved the win (Their 2nd win out of 15-20 games VS us ).

    The 2nd lag VS Chelsea was just brutal. We played well and even had the red card advantage with us. We were up 2-0 and blow it to 2-2, 2 of Chelsea goal coming from 10 man team. They played a very tight defense and had Messi on lock down. There is not much to say, but respect to Chelsea for fighting this far and defeating Barcelona at least you finally got your vengeance from 2009? Make it count.

    We have a big problem as Escorps said years go on and we just become more attack base and use are possession style football as defense, but we can only get so far with it, as we need at least 3 good defenders, we have only two with Abidal out and getting older, so is Puyol. This is something I hope Tito does for us, and I hope he learned from Pep well. We also need height which is another downfall. Pique is like the tallest one, we have big troubles in set pieces especially against Madrid like are loss to them Xavi was marking Benzema in the corner set piece lol

    Well Madrid are out unlike Mou we didn't really need an excuse, it was just not meant for us this year and Chelsea played well. Mou based his loss off the game VS Barcelona, even tho we played a day earlier and he has many youth on his team compared to us. He also says that we lost due to the same reason and later tries to insult us by saying we took Chelsea so lightly like we did with Inter.

    Bayern played well, so did Madrid it was a heavyweight battle between the two, height, strength, youth, speed, and determination. I had this really good feeling Bayern was going to win I even called the scoreline out and called PK 2-1 score with 3-1 PK before the game and PK in favor of Bayern. I was at a PUB in Abu Dhabi well my flight landed there for 4 hrs and caught the game. The guy beside me was like how'd you know did the game come on late here lol

    Anyways final will be Bayern VS Chelsea...I will route for Bayern lol
    Well, I already said nearly all my thoughts on Barca's rough week; so i won't add much. Just some quick points of some points that interested me in your part.

    1. I know that Messi loses the most often the ball possession. It's not due to his skills but rather to the double tight marking of defenders. What I'd like to know is how much time did the ball he lost turned into a goal for other teams. Personally, it's a first time if I remember... :shrug: Cause most of the balls he loses are covered by Busquets and Co. and usually the Barca ball possessions starts back again.

    2. I've read the 'allegations' that Mou did on their elimination... Well, I've said it before the Classico that the dates of Classico and Semi-finals were too close. Sincerely LigaBBVA should have planned it better. They kinda self-destroyed the chances of their own teams in Champions League with their dates. But that apart, Mou is also to be blamed cause' he did too few turnovers. For someone with such rich squad, he didn't use it to the optimum in my eyes. Oh well, it's done now. And at the very least, it's hard to predict a winner in a penalty shootout.

    3. I guess we can never route for the same team

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    yeah unlike italy, since italy already have all (talent leader an luck) but sometimes luck is on their side,

    BOLD:i know what you mean with that, LMAO
    true in your eyes and in my point of view, LA LIGA is always entertaining,

    if you go by tv rating then EPL stomp :shrug:, but since i started watching football in 1996 i don't really into EPL, since i don't find it fascinating, because in my opinion the best league who have the best attack play is LA LIGA and the best defense belong to Serie A,

    overall EPL team don't have their own football method, most of them Adapting Netherlands Total Football, where all the player move to attack leaving 2 center back behind with 1 defensive midfielder stay in check

    you must be realize it by now english player is gradually decreasing in their own league, after rooney in 2004 i don't see any new english player who have the same capacity with rooney anymore,

    only arsenal now who still produce some skillful English player.
    Well, I find it weird that you get into the 'football method' part. You may find Italian defensive football or Spanish football entertaining but then again, neither Spanish or Italian got heir own method initially. If you'd like to take a past trip then.

    Total football was revolutionized in Netherlands mostly. Though Germany has a big hand in it too.

    In fact, the Possession football was done by Germany initially. It's only afterwards that Johan Cryuffs and Co. adapted. And now has Spanish teams.

    As for the defensive play-style, it's true that it's become a trademark of Italy but at the origin, it was vigorously done by USSR.

    Anyways, all that to say that few countries and leagues have their own style but most moved forward with time.

    England may have had no style but they invented football itself. And frankly, I love EPL for that deep soul of football that they maintained throughout. It won't be an understatement that football is indeed a religion in England. And the love and passion kinda overshadows the specific style. I've always love EPL football more for diverse reasons.

    I agree that England youth are good but they don't rarely have a national gem in their squad. Well, it might change. Maybe in some 2-3 years. I always thought why they don't re-unite England with Wales and Scotland to represent Great Britain as a whole.

    In fact many Scottish and Wales players rarely got the chance to feature in final stages of World Cup or Euro Cups. If they were to do that, the squad will definitely be among the best National squads in my eyes. But anyways, that's all suppositions by me. Legendary players like Giggs or McAllister never got the chance to feature in big stages of National Cups. And sadly neither won't promising talents like Gareth Bale...
     
         

  6. #231
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Well, I already said nearly all my thoughts on Barca's rough week; so i won't add much. Just some quick points of some points that interested me in your part.

    1. I know that Messi loses the most often the ball possession. It's not due to his skills but rather to the double tight marking of defenders. What I'd like to know is how much time did the ball he lost turned into a goal for other teams. Personally, it's a first time if I remember... :shrug: Cause most of the balls he loses are covered by Busquets and Co. and usually the Barca ball possessions starts back again.

    2. I've read the 'allegations' that Mou did on their elimination... Well, I've said it before the Classico that the dates of Classico and Semi-finals were too close. Sincerely LigaBBVA should have planned it better. They kinda self-destroyed the chances of their own teams in Champions League with their dates. But that apart, Mou is also to be blamed cause' he did too few turnovers. For someone with such rich squad, he didn't use it to the optimum in my eyes. Oh well, it's done now. And at the very least, it's hard to predict a winner in a penalty shootout.

    3. I guess we can never route for the same team
    That was Messi first time he lost the ball that led to a goal I'm pretty sure this season. In the mid season they said just in La Liga he lost the ball 285 times, while the next guy to him (can't remember name) lost it 221 times. I've noticed it a lot compared to any other player playing today Messi has the most on him, even Ronaldo is marked by one man and maybe two once he's closer to the box, but Messi the second he ball rolls to him he's marked by two or more players.

    Rightfully said, but its football and we will see some messed up fixture timings and days for clubs. It is I just randomly said 3-1 and I said Ronaldo would score for Madrid in PK failed there.

    Technically I shouldn't be routing for Bayern as of right now we are both tied at 4 CL cups, and if they win they will jump ahead of us (they are already a head becuase they have 1 more runner up than us). If Chelsea wins not only will it be their first time, but it would be sad for us because it could have been us lol at the end tho the best team will win, but the underdogs are Chelsea.

    Liverpool VS Chelsea for FA cup will be quite an interesting game, I don't think Chelsea has beaten Liverpool this season either.
     
         
    Last edited by ReLax -; 04-28-2012 at 06:59 PM.

  7. #232
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Well, I find it weird that you get into the 'football method' part. You may find Italian defensive football or Spanish football entertaining but then again, neither Spanish or Italian got heir own method initially. If you'd like to take a past trip then.

    Total football was revolutionized in Netherlands mostly. Though Germany has a big hand in it too.

    In fact, the Possession football was done by Germany initially. It's only afterwards that Johan Cryuffs and Co. adapted. And now has Spanish teams.

    As for the defensive play-style, it's true that it's become a trademark of Italy but at the origin, it was vigorously done by USSR.

    Anyways, all that to say that few countries and leagues have their own style but most moved forward with time.

    England may have had no style but they invented football itself. And frankly, I love EPL for that deep soul of football that they maintained throughout. It won't be an understatement that football is indeed a religion in England. And the love and passion kinda overshadows the specific style. I've always love EPL football more for diverse reasons.

    I agree that England youth are good but they don't rarely have a national gem in their squad. Well, it might change. Maybe in some 2-3 years. I always thought why they don't re-unite England with Wales and Scotland to represent Great Britain as a whole.

    In fact many Scottish and Wales players rarely got the chance to feature in final stages of World Cup or Euro Cups. If they were to do that, the squad will definitely be among the best National squads in my eyes. But anyways, that's all suppositions by me. Legendary players like Giggs or McAllister never got the chance to feature in big stages of National Cups. And sadly neither won't promising talents like Gareth Bale...
    yeah but back then west Germany with their possession football is not as offensive like Netherlands total football, in other words its still in the RAW stages, Netherlands perfected that method with quick play with short pass,

    same goes with USSR, they played defensive football, but with obvious strategy, using power and durability to defense and Italy perfected that method with tactical play in defense with introducing libero as the key in the defensive area.

    this TOTAL FOOTBALL and CATENACCIO become the basis for modern football nowdays for attacking method and defense method,

    its kinda ironic for England as the mother football while they only won 1 WC, for me i think ENGLAND best team exist in the 80's with john barnes and gary lineker:izuna:,

    yeah i agree with you, i always have the same thought if only they would put wales, Scotland and England as the representative for Great Britannia, they will invincible especially if giggs still in his early 20's :D
     
         

  8. #233
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    That was Messi first time he lost the ball that led to a goal I'm pretty sure this season. In the mid season they said just in La Liga he lost the ball 285 times, while the next guy to him (can't remember name) lost it 221 times. I've noticed it a lot compared to any other player playing today Messi has the most on him, even Ronaldo is marked by one man and maybe two once he's closer to the box, but Messi the second he ball rolls to him he's marked by two or more players.

    Rightfully said, but its football and we will see some messed up fixture timings and days for clubs. It is I just randomly said 3-1 and I said Ronaldo would score for Madrid in PK failed there.

    Technically I shouldn't be routing for Bayern as of right now we are both tied at 4 CL cups, and if they win they will jump ahead of us (they are already a head becuase they have 1 more runner up than us). If Chelsea wins not only will it be their first time, but it would be sad for us because it could have been us lol at the end tho the best team will win, but the underdogs are Chelsea.

    Liverpool VS Chelsea for FA cup will be quite an interesting game, I don't think Chelsea has beaten Liverpool this season either.
    Yeah, the marking on Messi is much tighter this season. Can't blame the teams for that. In fact, I find it forced and well-done. The thing is that right now, Messi has been a little contained in the big matches with that kind of marking. Time slowly revealed some weaknesses to exploit...

    I agree that it's part of football. But it's weird that Liga League does this 'blunder' 2 years consecutively. Last year, it was 4 Classico. This time, it's Classico and 2 big CL matches for each of them.

    Yeah, the underdogs are clearly Chelsea but I definitely root for them. I may have watch it as a neutral if it was Madrid v/s Chelsea though...

    Even if Liverpool win the FA Cup and thus makes a Cup-double, their season is still a pathetic one in my eyes. Sincerely, they don't really deserve those cups, the way they play in EPL right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    yeah but back then west Germany with their possession football is not as offensive like Netherlands total football, in other words its still in the RAW stages, Netherlands perfected that method with quick play with short pass,

    same goes with USSR, they played defensive football, but with obvious strategy, using power and durability to defense and Italy perfected that method with tactical play in defense with introducing libero as the key in the defensive area.

    this TOTAL FOOTBALL and CATENACCIO become the basis for modern football nowdays for attacking method and defense method,

    its kinda ironic for England as the mother football while they only won 1 WC, for me i think ENGLAND best team exist in the 80's with john barnes and gary lineker:izuna:,

    yeah i agree with you, i always have the same thought if only they would put wales, Scotland and England as the representative for Great Britannia, they will invincible especially if giggs still in his early 20's :D
    Well, modern football's basis is based on tactics in my eyes. Long ago, coaches didn't made so much researches for a particular match. Nowadays, so much effort is done before-match to prepare proper tactic. This is THE REAL advancement of football in my eyes (compared to 25-30 years ago). The coach and staff is really a key in a team now; much more than in those times. Technology helped a lot for that progress too.

    And if I were to ask for the next big change in upcoming years, I hope it's in the refereeing department...

    Anyways, I guess, I agree with all points. But it was nice debate. Lots of history and analysis and I enjoyed. Thanks Come more often on the thread for any other discussions you want to start
     
         

  9. #234
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Well, modern football's basis is based on tactics in my eyes. Long ago, coaches didn't made so much researches for a particular match. Nowadays, so much effort is done before-match to prepare proper tactic. This is THE REAL advancement of football in my eyes (compared to 25-30 years ago). The coach and staff is really a key in a team now; much more than in those times. Technology helped a lot for that progress too.

    And if I were to ask for the next big change in upcoming years, I hope it's in the refereeing department...

    Anyways, I guess, I agree with all points. But it was nice debate. Lots of history and analysis and I enjoyed. Thanks Come more often on the thread for any other discussions you want to start
    well you can say its easier to play football nowadays compared to 20 or 30 years ago, the field,jersey and shoe is better nowadays LOL,

    true UEFA/FIFA should use more Italian and south america referee in LC/WC/EC match.

    well you're welcome, i actually quite annoyed with the discussion in the naruto section nowadays ,

    and by the way, if messi still get the Ballon d'Or this year there must be something wrong with the voters :shrug:

    oppss I almost forget about the Manchester derby this week LOL, am rooting for the citizen for more drama
     
         
    Last edited by Totsuka No Tsurugi; 04-29-2012 at 07:24 AM.

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    well you can say its easier to play football nowadays compared to 20 or 30 years ago, the field,jersey and shoe is better nowadays LOL,

    true UEFA/FIFA should use more Italian and south america referee in LC/WC/EC match.

    well you're welcome, i actually quite annoyed with the discussion in the naruto section nowadays ,

    and by the way, if messi still get the Ballon d'Or this year there must be something wrong with the voters :shrug:

    oppss I almost forget about the Manchester derby this week LOL, am rooting for the citizen for more drama
    True. Well, by progress in refereeing, I mainly insinuating that video replays should be allowed in some 5-10 years.

    Well, I don't really go into Naruto sections nowadays.

    The Ballon D'Or judging style was changed since last 2 years. Long ago, there was an exclusive Panel to judge who was the best player and who deserved it more. That particular Panel considered the achievements of players strictly and as a main factor for Ballon D'Or.

    Since 2 years, Platini the A**hole (excuse the language) changed the system. Now, the Panel has been reduced in number. And a good chunk of judges are the journalists, pundits and coaches themselves. (who are biased with players who posses extraordinary abilities) In short, the judges are now a mixture of those. And while the Panel has their old view, the others simply put their votes upon players that they deem to posses extraordinary abilities. Those people neglect the achievements factors considerably and since Messi and Ronaldo are 2 players who are gifted with great attributes along with individual performances, they are bound to be in Top 3/5 regardless of whether they won something with their club/national team.

    In my view, I find it bullshit. The Award has turn way too much of an individualistic Award; where skills and statistics are considered too strongly and where hard-work and club accomplishments is no more a crucial factor. In short, there are now two types of judges in the Panel of Ballon D'Or. One who'll vote according to what a player has accomplished with his team and one who vote according to statistics and abilities of the player. Thus, why Sneijder, Xavi and Iniesta didn't win it in the last 2 years while Messi did and Ronaldo follows.

    Don't be surprise if let's say a player - example Ozil or Rooney or RVP -who's having a good season and were to be the main player that give their national team the Euro trophy, don't win the Ballon D'Or. But yet someone like CR7 or Messi clinch it yet again. Right now, CR7 is my favorite to gain it but I'd rather wait to see what Euro reserves. Hope you get it a bit more as to why Messi is winning Ballon D'Or so often and there's no more surprises like a Nedved or Cannavaro win. It's the Ballon D'Or Panel which has changed and how I wished that it were reverted back to how it was.

    I'll speak on the Manchester Derby after it's played but everyone know obviously whom I'm rooting for.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Falcons going all the way this year
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Yeah, the marking on Messi is much tighter this season. Can't blame the teams for that. In fact, I find it forced and well-done. The thing is that right now, Messi has been a little contained in the big matches with that kind of marking. Time slowly revealed some weaknesses to exploit...

    I agree that it's part of football. But it's weird that Liga League does this 'blunder' 2 years consecutively. Last year, it was 4 Classico. This time, it's Classico and 2 big CL matches for each of them.

    Yeah, the underdogs are clearly Chelsea but I definitely root for them. I may have watch it as a neutral if it was Madrid v/s Chelsea though...

    Even if Liverpool win the FA Cup and thus makes a Cup-double, their season is still a pathetic one in my eyes. Sincerely, they don't really deserve those cups, the way they play in EPL right now.
    I agree this is why Barcelona need one more pure striker with height, most importantly tho we need defense ATM, we are after Bale and also after united target Alba (whos also LB/RB), I'm guess we can only get one.

    I hope they do fix it, but until than the Spanish teams have to live with it.

    If Madrid went thru I'd root Chelsea, don't need them to make it 10 now do we.

    You can't really say that because the same goes for Chelsea, they have a much better squad than Liverpool, but yet are in 6th place on table and they made it to FA and CL final, so is that undeserved to?

    Liverpool Suarez hit home a hat trick yesterday and what a way to put in the 3rd goal from 45 yds out just amazing. Liverpool need more signing and better ones to support a player like Suarez or they need to buy players like Cavani, Llorente, or Falcao for height support and replace Carroll. Liverpool don't really have a strong team like the rest in EPL and other leagues.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rapid View Post
    Falcons going all the way this year
    We aren't discussing "American Football"
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Technically escorpiuus EPLS quality have decreased over the years with all the top players leaving for spain..there are hardly any top players in England.That being said EPL is much more even.at least the fight for the cup is between 5-6 teams..whereas in Spain only 2 teams barca and madrid hog the limelight and the difference of the two teams compared to teh whole La Liga is too huge.Though The 2 teams will easily pawn any team in EPL....personally i feel the bundesliga is the most entertaining league..every team has a chance to win the league..nobody is overpowered or too weak..
     
         

  14. #239
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    True. Well, by progress in refereeing, I mainly insinuating that video replays should be allowed in some 5-10 years.

    Well, I don't really go into Naruto sections nowadays.

    The Ballon D'Or judging style was changed since last 2 years. Long ago, there was an exclusive Panel to judge who was the best player and who deserved it more. That particular Panel considered the achievements of players strictly and as a main factor for Ballon D'Or.

    Since 2 years, Platini the A**hole (excuse the language) changed the system. Now, the Panel has been reduced in number. And a good chunk of judges are the journalists, pundits and coaches themselves. (who are biased with players who posses extraordinary abilities) In short, the judges are now a mixture of those. And while the Panel has their old view, the others simply put their votes upon players that they deem to posses extraordinary abilities. Those people neglect the achievements factors considerably and since Messi and Ronaldo are 2 players who are gifted with great attributes along with individual performances, they are bound to be in Top 3/5 regardless of whether they won something with their club/national team.

    In my view, I find it bullshit. The Award has turn way too much of an individualistic Award; where skills and statistics are considered too strongly and where hard-work and club accomplishments is no more a crucial factor. In short, there are now two types of judges in the Panel of Ballon D'Or. One who'll vote according to what a player has accomplished with his team and one who vote according to statistics and abilities of the player. Thus, why Sneijder, Xavi and Iniesta didn't win it in the last 2 years while Messi did and Ronaldo follows.

    Don't be surprise if let's say a player - example Ozil or Rooney or RVP -who's having a good season and were to be the main player that give their national team the Euro trophy, don't win the Ballon D'Or. But yet someone like CR7 or Messi clinch it yet again. Right now, CR7 is my favorite to gain it but I'd rather wait to see what Euro reserves. Hope you get it a bit more as to why Messi is winning Ballon D'Or so often and there's no more surprises like a Nedved or Cannavaro win. It's the Ballon D'Or Panel which has changed and how I wished that it were reverted back to how it was.

    I'll speak on the Manchester Derby after it's played but everyone know obviously whom I'm rooting for.
    I AGREE 100% with you, that Platini!!!!!!!
    especially in 2010, damn that was disgrace toward Inter milan, especially Wesley sneijder, seriously that man won the champions league,Serie A,Coppa Italy, in his 1st season and bring Netherlands to the final in WC 2010, and yet he's not even made it to the finalist for the award:sy:

    CR7,RVP and mario gomez, yeah one of them should win the Ballon d'Or this year.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    I agree this is why Barcelona need one more pure striker with height, most importantly tho we need defense ATM, we are after Bale and also after united target Alba (whos also LB/RB), I'm guess we can only get one.

    I hope they do fix it, but until than the Spanish teams have to live with it.

    If Madrid went thru I'd root Chelsea, don't need them to make it 10 now do we.

    You can't really say that because the same goes for Chelsea, they have a much better squad than Liverpool, but yet are in 6th place on table and they made it to FA and CL final, so is that undeserved to?

    Liverpool Suarez hit home a hat trick yesterday and what a way to put in the 3rd goal from 45 yds out just amazing. Liverpool need more signing and better ones to support a player like Suarez or they need to buy players like Cavani, Llorente, or Falcao for height support and replace Carroll. Liverpool don't really have a strong team like the rest in EPL and other leagues.
    I agree with a pure striker. In fact, even United needs one but I'm a sentimental and can't agree to the fact that we'll need to sacrifice someone like Chicharito or Welbeck for that. But yeah, Barcelona needs to reinforce both attack and defense. Bale is a wonderful player (one of my favorites) but seeing the plight of Barca's defense, I sincerely think it might be suicidal.

    Well, it's been sometime since I saw a CL final with Madrid And I won't hide the fact that I'd like CR7 and Ozil to lift it someday.

    Nope, the same doesn't apply for Chelsea. Chelsea is fighting for the 4th place while Liverpool is not even certain to be in Europa League. Moreover, the performance of Liverpool in EPL was disastrous. I've got the chance (or is it bad luck) to see some of their matches against low-teams and they were pathetic. Chelsea lost mostly their big matches and has a manager problem. Otherwise, their performance is less alarming than Liverpool - who reportedly has good relationship with their manager. Liverpool recruited a lot this year and after seeing their performances, I'd term this season as a failure. Chelsea had an aging team and a fallout with their manager. If they didn't have that managerial issue, their season will have been more brighter. Even if teams like Arsenal, Tottenham and Newcastle didn't win anything, their performances were better than Liverpool any-day. And seriously, there's a BIG difference in being in a Carling Cup final and a Champions League final? There's a play-crisis in my view at Liverpool and the Cups finals are just a veneer - it's hiding the appearances.

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Tsunayoshi~ View Post
    Technically escorpiuus EPLS quality have decreased over the years with all the top players leaving for spain..there are hardly any top players in England.That being said EPL is much more even.at least the fight for the cup is between 5-6 teams..whereas in Spain only 2 teams barca and madrid hog the limelight and the difference of the two teams compared to teh whole La Liga is too huge.Though The 2 teams will easily pawn any team in EPL....personally i feel the bundesliga is the most entertaining league..every team has a chance to win the league..nobody is overpowered or too weak..
    Still, EPL has the most talented players after Liga. So, it's really a downfall. There's a 62 points difference between Madrid (leader) and Racing (the last). It's way too huge. And say whatever you want about those 2 teams pwn those EPL teams any-day but fact is that they still lost against Chelsea. Bundesliga may give anyone a chance but there's a lack of tactics in their play which doesn't appeal to me.

    I'd give a good line that I've recently read and which applies perfectly here - Europe's elite extends beyond the Classico.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    I AGREE 100% with you, that Platini!!!!!!!
    especially in 2010, damn that was disgrace toward Inter milan, especially Wesley sneijder, seriously that man won the champions league,Serie A,Coppa Italy, in his 1st season and bring Netherlands to the final in WC 2010, and yet he's not even made it to the finalist for the award:sy:

    CR7,RVP and mario gomez, yeah one of them should win the Ballon d'Or this year.
    I was gutted about Sneijder and still is.

    I agree...
     
         

  16. #241
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    I AGREE 100% with you, that Platini!!!!!!!
    especially in 2010, damn that was disgrace toward Inter milan, especially Wesley sneijder, seriously that man won the champions league,Serie A,Coppa Italy, in his 1st season and bring Netherlands to the final in WC 2010, and yet he's not even made it to the finalist for the award:sy:

    CR7,RVP and mario gomez, yeah one of them should win the Ballon d'Or this year.
    It will be between Messi and Ronaldo this year again most likely.

    Messi: GP: 55 --- G: 63 --- Chance to win Copa del Rey and he's already won varies cups this season including Club World Cup, Espana Cup, and and European Super Cup
    Ronaldo: GP: 51 --- G: 56 --- La Liga Title
    Gomez: GP: 48 --- G: 40 ---Chance to win CL
    RVP: GP: 45 --- G: 34

    The clear fav is Messi has he doesn't only hold a better record out of the four, but also has won more if you look at it Escorps way for his club.

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Tsunayoshi~ View Post
    Technically escorpiuus EPLS quality have decreased over the years with all the top players leaving for spain..there are hardly any top players in England.That being said EPL is much more even.at least the fight for the cup is between 5-6 teams..whereas in Spain only 2 teams barca and madrid hog the limelight and the difference of the two teams compared to teh whole La Liga is too huge.Though The 2 teams will easily pawn any team in EPL....personally i feel the bundesliga is the most entertaining league..every team has a chance to win the league..nobody is overpowered or too weak..
    ATM right now Spain plays the best football which revolves around attacking and people are entertained by that. The quality of Spanish football right now is above and beyond. They also produce some of the greatest talents, Ie: Xavi, Inesita, Silva, Villa, Torres, Mata, Fabregas, Pique, Casillas, Ramos, Alonso, Llorente, Martinez, and so on. They have many players still growing also like Callejon, Tello. and Cuenca just to name a few. EPL still has great quality, but get out done by Barcelona, or Madrid. I agree the Germany league is quite interesting you expect Bayern to be heavyweights there, but even the struggle against 3-4 teams there.

    The way I see it

    1. Spain
    2. Argentina
    3. Netherland/Brasil/Germany

    Produce the best footballers in today's game.
     
         

  17. #242
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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    I agree with a pure striker. In fact, even United needs one but I'm a sentimental and can't agree to the fact that we'll need to sacrifice someone like Chicharito or Welbeck for that. But yeah, Barcelona needs to reinforce both attack and defense. Bale is a wonderful player (one of my favorites) but seeing the plight of Barca's defense, I sincerely think it might be suicidal.

    Well, it's been sometime since I saw a CL final with Madrid And I won't hide the fact that I'd like CR7 and Ozil to lift it someday.

    Nope, the same doesn't apply for Chelsea. Chelsea is fighting for the 4th place while Liverpool is not even certain to be in Europa League. Moreover, the performance of Liverpool in EPL was disastrous. I've got the chance (or is it bad luck) to see some of their matches against low-teams and they were pathetic. Chelsea lost mostly their big matches and has a manager problem. Otherwise, their performance is less alarming than Liverpool - who reportedly has good relationship with their manager. Liverpool recruited a lot this year and after seeing their performances, I'd term this season as a failure. Chelsea had an aging team and a fallout with their manager. If they didn't have that managerial issue, their season will have been more brighter. Even if teams like Arsenal, Tottenham and Newcastle didn't win anything, their performances were better than Liverpool any-day. And seriously, there's a BIG difference in being in a Carling Cup final and a Champions League final? There's a play-crisis in my view at Liverpool and the Cups finals are just a veneer - it's hiding the appearances.
    Well it would be hard to chose between Chicharito or Welbeck, most like will be Chicharito due to injury woes. Well Bale is great maybe he can learn a things or two with Puyol and Pique in defending. I hope Barcelona allows Alves and Bale to attack with them, but one of them only, so if Alves comes up Bale stays back with the defense or vise versa, instead both moving in leaving two of them back.

    Ozil I would like to see also, as far as CR not really concerned about him all tho I recently heard him moaning about the good life back at United with SaF.

    Your are correct there, but that doesn't change a thing. Liverpool right now are at the lvl of those low teams around 12-6 on the table, they don't have a good squad what signings did they make? I don't see any impact except from Suarez. Gerrad and Suarez are Liverpool ATM, Bellamy and Kuyt aren't doing too bad neither. Liverpool don't have the influence all over the pitch like all the heavyweights. Barcelona got Puyol, Xavi, Messi...Madrid got Pepe/Ramos, Alonso/Ozil, Ronaldo/Benzema...ManU got Vidic/Ferdinad, Giggs/Scholes, Rooney...ManC got Kompony, Silva/Toure, Augero/Tevez/Dezko...Arsenal got Sagna/Vermaelen, Wilshere/Ramsey, RVP/Walcott... Milan got Nesta/Silva, Boateng/Van Bommel/Ambrosini, Ibra/Pato/Nocerino (not including GK). I'm sure you see were I'm getting at here. Liverpool don't have that which others do to succeed they need more signing and better ones a lot of people are on the market this transfer hope for them to get some to make an impact next year, or even the ones they have now will leave and Kuyt may move back to Netherlands next season. You can't depend a team on 2-3 players you need all and Liverpool have many sloppy players. At the end even Chelsea can win FA we don't know if Liverpool wins or not in my eyes they deserved it taking clubs like ManU and City out, of FA/Carling cups.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    It will be between Messi and Ronaldo this year again most likely.

    Messi: GP: 55 --- G: 63 --- Chance to win Copa del Rey and he's already won varies cups this season including Club World Cup, Espana Cup, and and European Super Cup
    Ronaldo: GP: 51 --- G: 56 --- La Liga Title
    Gomez: GP: 48 --- G: 40 ---Chance to win CL
    RVP: GP: 45 --- G: 34

    The clear fav is Messi has he doesn't only hold a better record out of the four, but also has won more if you look at it Escorps way for his club.
    I agree though it still pains me that statistics become such a big - if not sole - reason for Ballon D'Or and FIFA Best Player.

    Where's the recognition of player who have bust their ass off everyday on the field for their team? Where's the recognition of player who helped their team in all conditions? Where's the recognition of player who barely did mistakes or a bad match in a season? Where's the recognition of player who made others look good?

    Accomplishments were atleast more significant than statistics but now as I said, even accomplishments are less importantly assessed. I've never hide it - the Ballon D'Or is becoming a joke in my eyes as years are passing. In fact, it's becoming insulting to some former Ballon D'Or.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    Well it would be hard to chose between Chicharito or Welbeck, most like will be Chicharito due to injury woes. Well Bale is great maybe he can learn a things or two with Puyol and Pique in defending. I hope Barcelona allows Alves and Bale to attack with them, but one of them only, so if Alves comes up Bale stays back with the defense or vise versa, instead both moving in leaving two of them back.

    Ozil I would like to see also, as far as CR not really concerned about him all tho I recently heard him moaning about the good life back at United with SaF.

    Your are correct there, but that doesn't change a thing. Liverpool right now are at the lvl of those low teams around 12-6 on the table, they don't have a good squad what signings did they make? I don't see any impact except from Suarez. Gerrad and Suarez are Liverpool ATM, Bellamy and Kuyt aren't doing too bad neither. Liverpool don't have the influence all over the pitch like all the heavyweights. Barcelona got Puyol, Xavi, Messi...Madrid got Pepe/Ramos, Alonso/Ozil, Ronaldo/Benzema...ManU got Vidic/Ferdinad, Giggs/Scholes, Rooney...ManC got Kompony, Silva/Toure, Augero/Tevez/Dezko...Arsenal got Sagna/Vermaelen, Wilshere/Ramsey, RVP/Walcott... Milan got Nesta/Silva, Boateng/Van Bommel/Ambrosini, Ibra/Pato/Nocerino (not including GK). I'm sure you see were I'm getting at here. Liverpool don't have that which others do to succeed they need more signing and better ones a lot of people are on the market this transfer hope for them to get some to make an impact next year, or even the ones they have now will leave and Kuyt may move back to Netherlands next season. You can't depend a team on 2-3 players you need all and Liverpool have many sloppy players. At the end even Chelsea can win FA we don't know if Liverpool wins or not in my eyes they deserved it taking clubs like ManU and City out, of FA/Carling cups.
    Unfortunately, when you see Puyol in attacking position in the match against Chelsea, I'm really viewing Barca's defense being up to only 2 players if Bale were to come.

    CR7 reminding United is not a new story. It's something that he keeps stating every once a while. I don't think he'll leave Madrid on a failure note though. By that, I mean that he will atleast try win CL and Ballon D'Or again first. But it won't surprise me to see him back at ManU someday.

    In last 2 seasons, Liverpool bought Suarez, Caroll, Downing, Henderson, Jose Enrique, Lucas, Adams, Doni, Bellamy, Coates and some more. I'd stop because it's already quite some players in 2 years. Though few of them are top-quality players but that's their own fault. They chose to buy those players. Nobody forced them. When you see Arsenal/United/Tottenham being top teams since always by having 1/3 of the number of signings - you must admit that something worse than signings is problematic in Liverpool. In fact, it's worrying that they are so bad despite so many signings.

    Take Newcastle who is now almost-favorites for 4th place. The money received by Caroll and spent on players like Demba Ba, Papiss Cisse and eBen Arfa is a master-stroke by Alan Pardew. What's the guarantee of saying that Liverpool will be better when they'll sign more players next years? They've been doing that inefficiently since 2 years and frankly, I don't see a much brighter future for them next season. Optimistically, they may fight for the 4th place but definitely not in Champions position.

    Sure, they took Everton and United out of FA Cup (thanks to Evra-Suarez issue but let's not get back to that...) and they took Chelsea and City out of Carling Cup. But where's the big thing when you win the Cup on Penalty shootouts against a 2nd Division team? Come on, they could even have lose it if luck wasn't on their side!

    P.S - Don't include Ramsey in Heavyweights list - it's making me laugh way too much
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Okay, it's not the gutted 6-1 feeling but this defeat against City is bitter and sad. It's hard to say it; so I'll say it only once - congrats to City for today's important win.

    Sincerely, United didn't deserve the win today but it won't have been undeserving to clinch a draw though. Mostly all players gave it their all. The first half was an intense one but with neither team gaining any real chance. So, it's enraging to concede the crucial goal at 1st stoppage time and on a corner.

    Smalling was man-marking Kompany but dropped the man-marking at a point (forced to diverge through a block) and this led to Kompany to attack the ball front and pass it to De Gea.

    I always say it that stoppage time goals are always the most painful. It disrupts the tactical play, it hurt mentally and it also deroute the physiognomy of the match completely. Given the application of United players defensively, I don't think we deserve to concede that goal. Even more cruel, to concede it on a set-piece. But well... that's football!

    In the second-half, United loosened its tight defense a bit and controlled a bit more the match. But at each offensive substitutions of United, Mancini brought in one more defender. So, they really made it hard for United to pass. City got 3 good chances to kill the match in last 10 minutes as United pushed more forward but blew it.

    On the whole, City's win is not undeserved but a draw would have been a more logical result; given United's tight defensive display in 1st half and City's packed defenders in 2nd half.

    Special Mentions of Players:


    Yaya Toure was exceptional (Man of the Match in my eyes). Nasri gave a good showing; a little better than Silva who was substituted. Rooney did a good first half in terms of passing but was unable to produce any spark offensively. Got more lost in 2nd half. Aguero and Tevez couldn't bring much fire either with the tactical play. In fact, the tactical battle was so tight that I find it harsh not to clinch a draw. Park was aligned surprisingly and his role was to pressure Yaya Toure. Did it fairly well but failed more in his task as minutes pass. Once Park was out, Toure clearly had more liberty. I'm not angry that Fergie played Park but I'm angry that he did it at the expense of Valencia. Park usually delivers in big matches but considered that he barely played this season, it wasn't worth to take a risk in such big match. Risk which globally didn't pay off. Both teams' defenders were brilliant - with obviously that of City getting the final edge since they won...

    City are once more favorites for the title but it's not won yet. I'd say they'll be champions if they do win at Newcastle or if United don't win at Swansea. I guess, Serie A and EPL titles won't be handed before the last day.
     
         
    Last edited by Escorpiius; 04-30-2012 at 09:36 PM.

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Why did Valencia start the game on the bench? I'm baffled.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuu. View Post
    Why did Valencia start the game on the bench? I'm baffled.
    Same here but it was the European United team that was aligned.
    Only 1 winger, 1 striker, 3 midfielders and Park given a specific task.

    It's a formation used to defend better - a formation clearly put to disrupt the 4 fiery offensive players of City (Tevez, Aguero, Nasri and Silva). The tactic worked in my eyes but football is harsh and simple error on a set-piece can change a match.

    Like I said, I'm angry that this formation was at the expense of Valencia. I understand that Fergie needs to choose between Nani, Valencia and Young for the winger position but Valencia stood out more than Nani to me on paper. It's the proper formation with wrong lineups as Chicharito or Welbeck should have been aligned instead of Giggs. Same for Valencia (instead of Park). Oh well, it's done now.
     
         
    Last edited by Escorpiius; 05-01-2012 at 10:46 AM.

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    I agree though it still pains me that statistics become such a big - if not sole - reason for Ballon D'Or and FIFA Best Player.

    Where's the recognition of player who have bust their ass off everyday on the field for their team? Where's the recognition of player who helped their team in all conditions? Where's the recognition of player who barely did mistakes or a bad match in a season? Where's the recognition of player who made others look good?

    Accomplishments were atleast more significant than statistics but now as I said, even accomplishments are less importantly assessed. I've never hide it - the Ballon D'Or is becoming a joke in my eyes as years are passing. In fact, it's becoming insulting to some former Ballon D'Or.
    In your point you are correct, but logically I have to disagree. Last year Cavani (Napoli), Di Natale (Udinese), Tevez (City), and more were top players for their clubs and lead them to CL, but yet they weren't recognition for FIFA. It's because we as watchers only recognition these talents as far as fighting for the best in the world goes, well frequently you need to prove it, which Messi has done for the past 3 years, a season hasn't gone were he hasn't won titles (he averages 3.25 titles a season, in other words 3 titles per season) and Messi is always the top scorer in mostly all competition (including season overall).

    This season, Cavani, RVP, Gomez, Ibra, Neymar, Di Natale, Benzema/Higuain/Ozil, Vidal, Mata, Silva/Augero, Rooney, and etc are players I've personal recognition this season, but which one of them deserve to reach the top 3? Benzema/Higuain/Ozil have been key factors to winning La Liga and beating Barcelona in their final game of the season (against one another). Rooney and Silva/Augero have been key factors for their Manchester sides and both have a chance to capture the league title. Ibra closing in on Serie A once again. Mata has had a fantastic and convincing season in Chelsea including reaching FA a final and CL final. The striker listed are in the top 3 scorer list in almost all competition.

    Than you have Messi again who has just broken records this season including beating Pele (66 goal for Brazilian club Santos in 1958), Ferenc Deak (66 goal for Ferencvaros in 1948-49) and Mueller (67 goals set for Bayern Munich in 1972-73) a 39 year old record. That including most goals scored in La Liga (I think) and CL all in one season. Messi has already won three titles with Barcelona, maybe a fourth (Copa Del Rey) including maybe picking up Pichichi, with 3 games to go in total for Barcelona him hitting 70 mark is very possible and 50 in La Liga is also there.

    It's clear Messi will capture his 4th Ballon D'or, unless Ronaldo wins Euros with Portugal tides can change to his favor.

    I'm sorry I was going on about Messi accomplishments with his team, kind of neglected your point. I will say this I've recognized many of the players every season of football, but none of compared, or played like Messi which is a fact, and this season Messi messed up a lot too, but he still accomplished a bit by winning titles and being top scorer in two competition including overall and breaking decade old records. I can see every game his facial expression gives it away that he is upset with the defeat to Chelsea and not having to score a single goal against them in 8 matches and most importantly not reaching CL final.

    They should just have individual awards for each catagory/position (striker, midfield, and defense). I think they have GK already and maybe defense too. As far as recognition I can't really see it happening because there is just too many this is why statistic and titles both come in handy to better assist them in choosing a winner. If you can give me one reason why Messi doesn't deserve it than go ahead, I can understand that one person winning over and over again, is tiring to people especially ones who don't favor that individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Escorpiius View Post
    Unfortunately, when you see Puyol in attacking position in the match against Chelsea, I'm really viewing Barca's defense being up to only 2 players if Bale were to come.

    CR7 reminding United is not a new story. It's something that he keeps stating every once a while. I don't think he'll leave Madrid on a failure note though. By that, I mean that he will atleast try win CL and Ballon D'Or again first. But it won't surprise me to see him back at ManU someday.

    In last 2 seasons, Liverpool bought Suarez, Caroll, Downing, Henderson, Jose Enrique, Lucas, Adams, Doni, Bellamy, Coates and some more. I'd stop because it's already quite some players in 2 years. Though few of them are top-quality players but that's their own fault. They chose to buy those players. Nobody forced them. When you see Arsenal/United/Tottenham being top teams since always by having 1/3 of the number of signings - you must admit that something worse than signings is problematic in Liverpool. In fact, it's worrying that they are so bad despite so many signings.

    Take Newcastle who is now almost-favorites for 4th place. The money received by Caroll and spent on players like Demba Ba, Papiss Cisse and eBen Arfa is a master-stroke by Alan Pardew. What's the guarantee of saying that Liverpool will be better when they'll sign more players next years? They've been doing that inefficiently since 2 years and frankly, I don't see a much brighter future for them next season. Optimistically, they may fight for the 4th place but definitely not in Champions position.

    Sure, they took Everton and United out of FA Cup (thanks to Evra-Suarez issue but let's not get back to that...) and they took Chelsea and City out of Carling Cup. But where's the big thing when you win the Cup on Penalty shootouts against a 2nd Division team? Come on, they could even have lose it if luck wasn't on their side!

    P.S - Don't include Ramsey in Heavyweights list - it's making me laugh way too much
    Well Barcelona have never really played hard defense, the style of play was their biggest defensive play. I like seeing Alves, Pique, Puyol, and Abidal in the back we were almost next to impossible to beat with this line up (5-0 Madrid, Abdial returning after surgery VS United CL final 3-1 victory with only giving united 3 shots and 1 on target). If Bale comes I hope for him to learn from Puyol and Pique become more of a defensive attacker (when needed that is), or we can have a line up like this...

    Pique, Puyol, Abdial (or get another defender, I personally want Vidal)
    Alves, Xavi, Fabregas, Bale
    Snachez, Messi, Iniesta

    Barcelona are planning on spending about 100 million for next season we can get at least 2-3 world class players and I want at least one defender and one attacking L/RB. I also depend height if they go for a striker (Falcao, Cavani, RVP).

    Well if Mou leaves its possible for his return all tho I see a problem with the cost to bring him back, especially since he has improved. SaF wanted to buy Alves lol they wanted to pay 25 for him, but Barcelona asking price was higher and SaF said due to his age he doesn't want to spend that much.

    Suarez and Enrique have been fine IMO. Bellamy and Lucas have been decent also. I'm not saying Liverpool isn't to blame for their buying, but that has been their biggest downfall this season players like Hazard, Cavani, Falcao, Hulk, Tevez (maybe), Sneijder, Robben (I heard), Hinda, Bale, RVP, Ribery (possible), and others mainly including some fantastic players in Ligue 1 are up for grabs stop wasting time on little ones and go back that's what Liverpool need (not saying that they will get them, but chance is still there).

    Newcastle spent their money much more wisely and found better players.

    That happens. Barcelona last year hammered home all the big clubs, but their defeats came to little clubs including a 2-0 to Hercules who got relegated that season. The thing with Liverpool is they haven't shown consistency, so I'll give you this one

    After seeing/reading (About Ramsey) what you posted on my wall couldn't help it lol

    Okay, it's not the gutted 6-1 feeling but this defeat against City is bitter and sad. It's hard to say it; so I'll say it only once - congrats to City for today's important win.

    Sincerely, United didn't deserve the win today but it won't have been undeserving to clinch a draw though. Mostly all players gave it their all. The first half was an intense one but with neither team gaining any real chance. So, it's enraging to concede the crucial goal at 1st stoppage time and on a corner.

    Smalling was man-marking Kompany but dropped the man-marking at a point (forced to diverge through a block) and this led to Kompany to attack the ball front and pass it to De Gea.

    I always say it that stoppage time goals are always the most painful. It disrupts the tactical play, it hurt mentally and it also deroute the physiognomy of the match completely. Given the application of United players defensively, I don't think we deserve to concede that goal. Even more cruel, to concede it on a set-piece. But well... that's football!

    In the second-half, United loosened its tight defense a bit and controlled a bit more the match. But at each offensive substitutions of United, Mancini brought in one more defender. So, they really made it hard for United to pass. City got 3 good chances to kill the match in last 10 minutes as United pushed more forward but blew it.

    On the whole, City's win is not undeserved but a draw would have been a more logical result; given United's tight defensive display in 1st half and City's packed defenders in 2nd half.

    Special Mentions of Players:

    Yaya Toure was exceptional (Man of the Match in my eyes). Nasri gave a good showing; a little better than Silva who was substituted. Rooney did a good first half in terms of passing but was unable to produce any spark offensively. Got more lost in 2nd half. Aguero and Tevez couldn't bring much fire either with the tactical play. In fact, the tactical battle was so tight that I find it harsh not to clinch a draw. Park was aligned surprisingly and his role was to pressure Yaya Toure. Did it fairly well but failed more in his task as minutes pass. Once Park was out, Toure clearly had more liberty. I'm not angry that Fergie played Park but I'm angry that he did it at the expense of Valencia. Park usually delivers in big matches but considered that he barely played this season, it wasn't worth to take a risk in such big match. Risk which globally didn't pay off. Both teams' defenders were brilliant - with obviously that of City getting the final edge since they won...

    City are once more favorites for the title but it's not won yet. I'd say they'll be champions if they do win at Newcastle or if United don't win at Swansea. I guess, Serie A and EPL titles won't be handed before the last day.


    Well you covered most of Man U and City game, but I'll say this I saw a very convincing City side, but not as much as United like Barcelona have a short line up problem with players missing/injured and need new signing. Also this year has been a good one for De Gea in my eyes he's been promising has been sloppy in some games, but also has made some crucial saves in other to keep United were they are lets not forget its only his second season in football and 1st in a big club like United, he will indeed be a promising keeper.

    Some United fans have really criticized SaF, by saying he should be sacked after the Everton game and even more flames after losing to City on him.

    City have a chance, but it can go either way Newcastle came off a victory against Chelsea, so City needs to watch it. Madrid money spending after 3-4 years has finally paid off at least they captured La Liga title. We will wait and see if City pays off.

    Juventus are on course for Serie A title, with Milan one point behind. Juventus are also having a season were they are invincible. They haven't lost in Serie A or in Coppa Italia and will face Napoli in the final on May 20th a day after CL final (May 19th) and than Copa Del Rey final Barcelona VS Bilboa May 25 all within a week.

    United are also gunning for Hazard this summer.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    MU against the impossible, can they pull this one out ?
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by Totsuka No Tsurugi View Post
    MU against the impossible, can they pull this one out ?
    Only if City screws up.
     
         

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    Re: General Football Debates!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReLax - View Post
    In your point you are correct, but logically I have to disagree. Last year Cavani (Napoli), Di Natale (Udinese), Tevez (City), and more were top players for their clubs and lead them to CL, but yet they weren't recognition for FIFA. It's because we as watchers only recognition these talents as far as fighting for the best in the world goes, well frequently you need to prove it, which Messi has done for the past 3 years, a season hasn't gone were he hasn't won titles (he averages 3.25 titles a season, in other words 3 titles per season) and Messi is always the top scorer in mostly all competition (including season overall).

    This season, Cavani, RVP, Gomez, Ibra, Neymar, Di Natale, Benzema/Higuain/Ozil, Vidal, Mata, Silva/Augero, Rooney, and etc are players I've personal recognition this season, but which one of them deserve to reach the top 3? Benzema/Higuain/Ozil have been key factors to winning La Liga and beating Barcelona in their final game of the season (against one another). Rooney and Silva/Augero have been key factors for their Manchester sides and both have a chance to capture the league title. Ibra closing in on Serie A once again. Mata has had a fantastic and convincing season in Chelsea including reaching FA a final and CL final. The striker listed are in the top 3 scorer list in almost all competition.

    Than you have Messi again who has just broken records this season including beating Pele (66 goal for Brazilian club Santos in 1958), Ferenc Deak (66 goal for Ferencvaros in 1948-49) and Mueller (67 goals set for Bayern Munich in 1972-73) a 39 year old record. That including most goals scored in La Liga (I think) and CL all in one season. Messi has already won three titles with Barcelona, maybe a fourth (Copa Del Rey) including maybe picking up Pichichi, with 3 games to go in total for Barcelona him hitting 70 mark is very possible and 50 in La Liga is also there.

    It's clear Messi will capture his 4th Ballon D'or, unless Ronaldo wins Euros with Portugal tides can change to his favor.

    I'm sorry I was going on about Messi accomplishments with his team, kind of neglected your point. I will say this I've recognized many of the players every season of football, but none of compared, or played like Messi which is a fact, and this season Messi messed up a lot too, but he still accomplished a bit by winning titles and being top scorer in two competition including overall and breaking decade old records. I can see every game his facial expression gives it away that he is upset with the defeat to Chelsea and not having to score a single goal against them in 8 matches and most importantly not reaching CL final.

    They should just have individual awards for each catagory/position (striker, midfield, and defense). I think they have GK already and maybe defense too. As far as recognition I can't really see it happening because there is just too many this is why statistic and titles both come in handy to better assist them in choosing a winner. If you can give me one reason why Messi doesn't deserve it than go ahead, I can understand that one person winning over and over again, is tiring to people especially ones who don't favor that individual.

    Well Barcelona have never really played hard defense, the style of play was their biggest defensive play. I like seeing Alves, Pique, Puyol, and Abidal in the back we were almost next to impossible to beat with this line up (5-0 Madrid, Abdial returning after surgery VS United CL final 3-1 victory with only giving united 3 shots and 1 on target). If Bale comes I hope for him to learn from Puyol and Pique become more of a defensive attacker (when needed that is), or we can have a line up like this...

    Pique, Puyol, Abdial (or get another defender, I personally want Vidal)
    Alves, Xavi, Fabregas, Bale
    Snachez, Messi, Iniesta

    Barcelona are planning on spending about 100 million for next season we can get at least 2-3 world class players and I want at least one defender and one attacking L/RB. I also depend height if they go for a striker (Falcao, Cavani, RVP).

    Well if Mou leaves its possible for his return all tho I see a problem with the cost to bring him back, especially since he has improved. SaF wanted to buy Alves lol they wanted to pay 25 for him, but Barcelona asking price was higher and SaF said due to his age he doesn't want to spend that much.

    Suarez and Enrique have been fine IMO. Bellamy and Lucas have been decent also. I'm not saying Liverpool isn't to blame for their buying, but that has been their biggest downfall this season players like Hazard, Cavani, Falcao, Hulk, Tevez (maybe), Sneijder, Robben (I heard), Hinda, Bale, RVP, Ribery (possible), and others mainly including some fantastic players in Ligue 1 are up for grabs stop wasting time on little ones and go back that's what Liverpool need (not saying that they will get them, but chance is still there).

    Newcastle spent their money much more wisely and found better players.

    That happens. Barcelona last year hammered home all the big clubs, but their defeats came to little clubs including a 2-0 to Hercules who got relegated that season. The thing with Liverpool is they haven't shown consistency, so I'll give you this one

    After seeing/reading (About Ramsey) what you posted on my wall couldn't help it lol

    Well you covered most of Man U and City game, but I'll say this I saw a very convincing City side, but not as much as United like Barcelona have a short line up problem with players missing/injured and need new signing. Also this year has been a good one for De Gea in my eyes he's been promising has been sloppy in some games, but also has made some crucial saves in other to keep United were they are lets not forget its only his second season in football and 1st in a big club like United, he will indeed be a promising keeper.

    Some United fans have really criticized SaF, by saying he should be sacked after the Everton game and even more flames after losing to City on him.

    City have a chance, but it can go either way Newcastle came off a victory against Chelsea, so City needs to watch it. Madrid money spending after 3-4 years has finally paid off at least they captured La Liga title. We will wait and see if City pays off.

    Juventus are on course for Serie A title, with Milan one point behind. Juventus are also having a season were they are invincible. They haven't lost in Serie A or in Coppa Italia and will face Napoli in the final on May 20th a day after CL final (May 19th) and than Copa Del Rey final Barcelona VS Bilboa May 25 all within a week.

    United are also gunning for Hazard this summer.


    I agree but why are scoring stats always the most important? How about how many saves goalkeepers made, how about how many passes completed, how about the assists stats, how about the ball won stats?

    Goal statistics are overrated in my personal opinion to give the Ballon D'Or. Sure, it's perhaps the most influential and primordial statistic but the other stats are completely disregarded as well as the other elements I mentioned in my previous posts.

    There's nothing that makes me say that Messi didn't deserve it but I do think that in 2011 and especially 2010, someone deserve it more.

    Anyways, I'll end it here. There's no way I can undermine Messi as a great player (surely the Best in the World right now) but that doesn't change the fact in my eyes that Personal awards are being screwed up ever since Statistics and Talent overtook Accomplishments, Influence and Hardwork as criteria!

    I've been seeing Bale since his beginning and is in fact one of my favorite players in EPL. But believe me, he's not that good in defense and I really don't think he'll do any good defensively to Barcelona. Speaking of defense, Puyol has just been ruled out of Euro2012.

    Your positioning of Bale is interesting but I'm still doubtful. Pique dreams of Shakira's hips more than ball (can't blame him), Puyol is getting older and I wonder how long he'll stick, it's still not sure in what form Abidal will come after his operation and neither Bale and Alves are assurance policies in terms of defense. I see you ruled out Busquets which doesn't surprise coming from you. What will also be interesting is that - is there certain players which Vilanova don't particularly appreciate or someone who he'd like to see more often in starting line...?

    There'll be lots of key players on the market. I guess, it's because of that Financial Fair-Play Policy issued by UEFA that's going to be activated around 2013-2014. That means, the next 2 transfer markets might be among the Hottest Ever. By the way, what's your take on that policy? We never talked about this - it won't be such a bad discussion...

    I won't comment on City-United game again. Anyways, if United don't win it - it's because of that 4-4 draw which they themselves screwed up. I don't see City losing right now; especially after the pathetic Away form of QPR and the exceptional Home form of Citizens.

    Juventus are back Champions. I really like that; considering they were my favorite Italian team before their Scandal.

    United are gunning for Hazard and Modric but I'm doubtful for both considering the prices. SAF is right to finalize Kagawa & Siggourdsson first. Then be hopeful to clinch either Modric or Hazard. If not, they can still do another low-transfer with Joe Allen or Lucas Moura. But all-in-all, first I hope that Ferguson has realized that his midfield deserves reinforcements and that his formation needs to play more in the central.
     
         

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