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    Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madara

    edit edit: i just wanted to thank everyone who thanked this thread and gave me +reps. in a matter of a few days i got a whole new bar. over 100+ reps. btw people i now this thread is very long and there are some very lengthy posts but if you are reading this for the first time or just coming back the best part of this thread is in the end where i pwn some noobs who were trying to flame this thread for apparently no reason at all...

    Anyone whos been reading my comments in threads about tobis identity know that i am a strong believer that tobi is nobody but madara. Even with the past 3 chapters basically disproving this i still think if tobi is anybody, madara is still the best possibility.

    Comparisons and reasons to believe tobi is madara:

    Nagato:
    What both tobi and madara said about nagato. Tobi planned nagato to use the reviving jutsu for his purposes. Madara was revived and instantly assumed nagato to have used his reviving powers.

    Rinnegan:
    Both tobi and madara have rinnegans. Madara gained it before his death. Tobi took his from nagato, who he claimed that he was only taking back what was originally his.

    Kyuubi:
    Both tobi and madara have controlled and tamed kyuubi. Through the use of sharingan eye. Only people who have controlled/tamed kyuubi are madara, tobi, hadhirama and i guess you can include naruto. But you need either a sharingan or wood release. But even with a sharingan and wood release not just anybody can control kyuubi. Tobi and madara are the only ones to have ever controlled kyuubi and use him to attack the village. Hashirama was able to tame kyuubi and other tailed beasts and its implied because of his wood release but yamato with wood release can barely control naruto with 4tails cloak mode (plus yamato said that since naruto broke the 1st hokage crystal its impossible for him to restrain him now).

    But my point is that both and only tobi and madara have controlled kyuubi with their doujutsus. Itachi said madara was the only one to do so. And craziest thing is that kyuubi instantly recognized tobis chakra just like he instantly recognized edo madara.

    Witnesses:
    Itachi, pain, konan, kisame, minato and kyuubi all gave witness that tobi is or most likely is madara. This is something i can never get over. You cant deny the account of kyuubi, or minato whos first and only guess to who tobi was was madara. Or pain and konan who were working closely with tobi. Or kisame who saw his face and recognized it was madara. Or itachi who said he knew
    Madara was still alive and searched for him.

    Wood release/hashirama cells:
    Both tobi and evidently madara have hashirama cells. Tobi has it cuz hes capatable with replacing limbs to what seems like to be hashirama or zetsu parts. Tobi can use inazagi which takes sharingan and wood release to do. Madara can use wood release and kabuto knows madara took hashiramas powers (dna?)

    Everything tobi has said has been proven true by other characters:
    What tobi said about sage proven by jiraiya. What he said about uchiha massacre was proven by itachi and danzo. Everything he said about hashirama basically proven by kakashi, orochimaru etc. And now kabuto and madara are proving what tobi said about madara. Tobi said madara survived the fight agaisnt hashirama even though he lost. He also said madara gained hashiramas cells and that he gave nagato the rinnegan. Kabuto and madara are verifying these things to be very possible and true.

    Well all these things point to the conclusion that tobi is madara but obviously theres more to it.

    Even though evidently madara is the best posibility he also is not based on the last 3 chapters.

    1. Madara is revived. Wtf. I shouldnt have to explain how edo tensi works abd the whole soul thing
    2. With the dialogue in the past chapters its being hinted that tobi aka "the masked man" used madaras name and reputation to gain attention and start the war

    Just like how fugaku, izuna and obito all died and were shown dead and this proves they are not tobi. I cant deny madara being alive proves that he died so its impossible for him to be tobi also. (kagami is dead too. The 2 elders said they are the last 2 from their generations, which means danzo, hiruzen and yes kagami and everyone else of 3rd sarutobis generation are dead. Besides kagami is an irrevelant character. Iruka is more important than him.)

    And You have to take into account of the dialogue of the chapters saying tobi impersonated madara for reputation.

    But theres ways around it. Despite the recent chapters the evidence of madara being tobi outwieghs the possibility of him not. Tobi can be a product of inazagi, splitting, or a combination of hashirama cells and madaras will, memories, chakra or a piece of his soul. Those are just theories.

    You have to take into account that tobi and madara are very closely alike not based on appearance (which alot of dumb people have based their theories on) but based on knowledge, power And actions. Nobody, no other uchiha would have had the knowledge tobi had except madara because madara had ems and rinnegan and able to decifer the tablets and madara has witnessed the leaf foundation. Tobi had this knowledge through madaras point of view so my theory is........

    That in the future it will be explained that tobi is still somehow madara. It will be another plot twist that defies edo tensi.

    Btw i dont buy into tobi being a zetsu clone cuz we dont even fully know anything about zetsu (where is he from? Why split personalities? Is he even human? Age? Etc) Besides zetsu can clone a person down to the chakra but zetsu cant copy someones memories, knowledge, experience etc. Tobi had knowledge, memories and experiences of madara.
     
         
    Last edited by NarutoVsGoku; 11-01-2011 at 07:35 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    It feels like tobi is guy from V For Vendetta.
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Wow that was good
    + rep
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Thats a lot of typing
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    wow u gone into alot of detail, must of took forever 2 do but you do make a very good case, we just have 2 wait and see 2 find out
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    i disagree but it is very compelling +rep for all your hard work
     
         

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    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    One problem. If Tobi is Madara then Madara wouldn't say "our plan". It would be Madara's plan from the start. He would say "my plan". After all, Tobi is just Madara's creation, why would he share credit with him? He said " our plan" as if Tobi is real person and they are partners in this.

    And why do you avoided the possibility of Elder Son? You have mentioned everyone besides him, when he has the biggest motive, knowledge and power to actually be Tobi.
    Tobi has incredible space/time jutsus and Madara doesn't. What's the logic behind this?
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 10-27-2011 at 07:41 PM.

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    in the last manga kabuto said the masked man eventually isnt fullfilling madaras plan as he wishes, if he was madara, why should madara worry him not to fullfill his own wishes
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    madara ems wasnt that good but then he used rinnegan and with both ems and rinnegan he is OP but just ems he was a disappointment
    it says something about sasuke ems and that he isnt gonna be that strong
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    really good theory...
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    The reasons given by you can be clues for two things and two things alone which are: either tobi is madara which was proven wrong or that tobi is a man who's very close to madara and whom madara had revealed his secrets and his plans to him. +rep for hard work
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    i feel the exact same way... if you look at my threads you'll see i said he was a clone.
     
         

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    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Great post, +rep. But how can you believe Tobi is still Madara without believing in the Zetsu clone theory? Yes Zetsu can't copy kekkei genkai and likely can't copy stuff like memories and personalities, but who's to say Madara wasn't able to do this in one clone in particular? Maybe tobi's half black and half white Zetsu who was infused with a portion of Madara's chakra and his will (but not his soul). I honestly think that after taking in these characteristics, Tobi not only became a psuedo Madara, but also took on human characteristics, like skin, over his Zetsu form.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Roofy128 View Post
    madara ems wasnt that good but then he used rinnegan and with both ems and rinnegan he is OP but just ems he was a disappointment
    it says something about sasuke ems and that he isnt gonna be that strong
    Are you crazy? It took 2 kages and Naruto to get him vulnerable for RasenShuriken. If he's anything like Tobi then he probably could have used Izanagi or something. The thing is he didn't need to with Rinnegan.

    Now he's just backed a whole fleet into a corner with his overpoweredness. Sasuke with his MS could probably take on one Kage. Sasuke was getting raped by Oniko, and that hot breath woman. Tobi had to save him.

    We didn't see all of Madaras eye powers, only Sasuno.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    wow, nothing less from you man...this should be made a sticky thread as I would ASSUME! that every noob who thinks otherwise would read it and stop babbling nonsense in manga discussion area <-- and that would be my dream, that one day every noob would just stop, and be reasonable and logical..I guess that's too much to ask.. :/

    but yeah alone the witness part is enough to prove Tobi is Madara...but if that isn't enough to noobs then the Kyuubi taming part should be obvious

    Also one thing that you didn't mention..Tsuchikage heard Tobi's voice and he would obviously said something if he would've thought it didn't belong to Madara. Since he has heard Madara speaking so he knows what he sounds like. But yeah I guess that was Kagami's or Fugakus voice lol.
     
         
    Last edited by Hawker; 10-27-2011 at 08:03 PM.

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by leon8chicken View Post
    Are you crazy? It took 2 kages and Naruto to get him vulnerable for RasenShuriken. If he's anything like Tobi then he probably could have used Izanagi or something. The thing is he didn't need to with Rinnegan.

    Now he's just backed a whole fleet into a corner with his overpoweredness. Sasuke with his MS could probably take on one Kage. Sasuke was getting raped by Oniko, and that hot breath woman. Tobi had to save him.

    We didn't see all of Madaras eye powers, only Sasuno.
    i didnt say he was shit but without the rinnegan he was gone
    tell me u dont disagree with this?
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    really nice points .....but why doesn't edo madara have space/time jutsu
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by chimbroma View Post
    really nice points .....but why doesn't edo madara have space/time jutsu
    we dont know if he hasnt
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Roofy128 View Post
    i didnt say he was shit but without the rinnegan he was gone
    tell me u dont disagree with this?
    We don't really know if he was gone or not. Tobi has space time Ninjutsu and Izanagi. Edo Madara could have used Izanagi or something and sacrificed an eye or something. All i'm saying is we never saw him use his Mangekyou powers only sasuno. amaterasu or anything. I personally think he may have had a way to survive but it would be a lot riskier than Rinnegan.
     
         

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    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    Great post, +rep. But how can you believe Tobi is still Madara without believing in the Zetsu clone theory? Yes Zetsu can't copy kekkei genkai and likely can't copy stuff like memories and personalities, but who's to say Madara wasn't able to do this in one clone in particular? Maybe tobi's half black and half white Zetsu who was infused with a portion of Madara's chakra and his will (but not his soul). I honestly think that after taking in these characteristics, Tobi not only became a psuedo Madara, but also took on human characteristics, like skin, over his Zetsu form.
    This why he can't be Madara clone, zetsu or whatsover.

    Zetsu does not copy persons mind or their memory.

    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v57/c540/7.html
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v57/c540/9.html
    Zetsu Neji failed to fool Sakura when he thought TonTon was a human. Zetsu clones retain their own mind.

    They only copy appearance and chakra. They are not as good as original, even if they have their chakra and they can perform all their jutsus.

    Madara, nor Zetsu doesn't have any of Tobi's Space/Time abilities.


    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    One problem. If Tobi is Madara then Madara wouldn't say "our plan". It would be Madara's plan from the start. He would say "my plan". After all, Tobi is just Madara's creation, why would he share credit with him? He said " our plan" as if Tobi is real person and they are partners in this.

    And why do you avoided the possibility of Elder Son? You have mentioned everyone besides him, when he has the biggest motive, knowledge and power to actually be Tobi.
    Tobi has incredible space/time jutsus and Madara doesn't. What's the logic behind this?
     
         

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