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  1. #21
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Who says an Uchiha can attain Space-Time Ninjutsu without any of manga's establishment of being known to master it?
     
         

  2. #22
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by leon8chicken View Post
    We don't really know if he was gone or not. Tobi has space time Ninjutsu and Izanagi. Edo Madara could have used Izanagi or something and sacrificed an eye or something. All i'm saying is we never saw him use his Mangekyou powers only sasuno. amaterasu or anything. I personally think he may have had a way to survive but it would be a lot riskier than Rinnegan.
    nice
    i didnt think about that yeah he probably couldnt survived another way
     
         

  3. #23
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelh View Post
    It feels like tobi is guy from V For Vendetta.
    great comparison. Tobi is exactly that! Except not in a good guy kind of way

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjastormgenaration33 View Post
    Thats a lot of typing
    Thank you for pointing out the obvious lol

    Quote Originally Posted by welshfan2k11 View Post
    wow u gone into alot of detail, must of took forever 2 do but you do make a very good case, we just have 2 wait and see 2 find out
    Actually ive been saying this a million times in other threads and i decided to just put it all out there. The words just flowed it was dat hard.

    I cant wait to see also

    Quote Originally Posted by zombiejesus View Post
    i disagree but it is very compelling +rep for all your hard work
    If you disagree feel free to give your reasons why. I dont mind and actually love to hear why you disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    One problem. If Tobi is Madara then Madara wouldn't say "our plan". It would be Madara's plan from the start. He would say "my plan". After all, Tobi is just Madara's creation, why would he share credit with him? He said " our plan" as if Tobi is real person and they are partners in this.

    And why do you avoided the possibility of Elder Son? You have mentioned everyone besides him, when he has the biggest motive, knowledge and power to actually be Tobi.
    Tobi has incredible space/time jutsus and Madara doesn't. What's the logic behind this?
    i completely forgot about elder son but there a reason why i guess. I already stated that tobi had knowledge and experience that only madara would have. Elder son did not lead the uchiha, elder son did not have izuna as a brother, he did not fight hashirama and lose and live and steal his dna.

    Also nobody gave witness that tobi was elder son. Nobody. But many many people gave witness that tobi was madara.

    For those facts alone makes tobi being elder son very unlikely. Elder son would not have a motive for attacking the leaf. But madara tobi attacking the leaf is logical and makes sense. Thats another reason why tobi isnt elder son.

    N on ya first paragraph idk where to start.

    Tobi and edo madara may be from the same tree but they are 2 different entities. Its like fat buu and evil buu from dragonball z. Or a naruto clone argueing with another naruto clone despite them being the same person (example the recent naruto filler about naruto clones). So of course edo madara will say "our" and "his" amd kabuto says "your" or whatever.

    Tobi is madara creation and why would madara share credit with him? Why wouldnt he? Why not? That question just reminds me of that naruto clones filler where the clones were demanding respect from the original naruto.

    "they are partners" im glad you mentioned that cuz in this thread i was originally gunna touch base on this possibility but i wrote so much about tobi being madara i didnt know where or how to fit it in and i didnt feel like typing anymore. But obviously amd evidentlyadara and tobi are partners. Just look at the dialogue. Madara says "our" and kabuto says im on "your" side. When he said "your" i immediatly thought that this was a plural your and kabuto meant he was on the side of madara and tobi. Other languages have plural and singular words for "your" but In english we dont have a singular and plural word for "your" (unless you consider "yall" which is slang for you all) but i would need the original japanese scans and a translator to verify if kabuto meant a plural "your" referring to madara and tobi.

    Thats why i didnt mention it cuz its just too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by |KirA| View Post
    in the last manga kabuto said the masked man eventually isnt fullfilling madaras plan as he wishes, if he was madara, why should madara worry him not to fullfill his own wishes
    Cuz edo madara and tobi madara are the same but different. Like naruto and evil naruto from the lake. Or naruto and a naruto clone. Or fat majin buu and evil buu from dragonball z. Or kid trunks and future trunks from dbz. Or majin buu and oob from dbz. Or mew and mewtwo from pokemon. Or yu-gi and yu-gi-oh pharoah from yu-gi-oh. Etc etc etc etc
     
         

  4. #24
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    This why he can't be Madara clone, zetsu or whatsover.





    Yawn. Again you focus on something I said that I clearly assessed from both ways. I stated that it is likely Zetsu couldn't copy memories (I remembered it somewhere in the manga but couldn't confirm it so I left is a LIKELY, but you just confirmed it). But like I said, despite that fact, I think Zetsu #1 took on characteristics of Madara in another way. Don't act as if Tobi being a Madara-Zetsu hybrid is a confirmed impossibility....especially when you use your own quotes as proof LOL.

    As for Madara saying 'our plan' why is that so hard to believe? Tobi and Madara have been in kahoots for a number of decades. Why is it so hard to believe that Madara considers him a separate being at this point? It just makes so much sense that Tobi is a lesser form of Madara.. seriously.
     
         
    Last edited by Floydical; 10-27-2011 at 08:40 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Cyborg's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    Anyone whos been reading my comments in threads about tobis identity know that i am a strong believer that tobi is nobody but madara. Even with the past 3 chapters basically disproving this i still think if tobi is anybody, madara is still the best possibility.

    Comparisons and reasons to believe tobi is madara:

    Nagato:
    What both tobi and madara said about nagato. Tobi planned nagato to use the reviving jutsu for his purposes. Madara was revived and instantly assumed nagato to have used his reviving powers.

    Rinnegan:
    Both tobi and madara have rinnegans. Madara gained it before his death. Tobi took his from nagato, who he claimed that he was only taking back what was originally his.

    Kyuubi:
    Both tobi and madara have controlled and tamed kyuubi. Through the use of sharingan eye. Only people who have controlled/tamed kyuubi are madara, tobi, hadhirama and i guess you can include naruto. But you need either a sharingan or wood release. But even with a sharingan and wood release not just anybody can control kyuubi. Tobi and madara are the only ones to have ever controlled kyuubi and use him to attack the village. Hashirama was able to tame kyuubi and other tailed beasts and its implied because of his wood release but yamato with wood release can barely control naruto with 4tails cloak mode (plus yamato said that since naruto broke the 1st hokage crystal its impossible for him to restrain him now).

    But my point is that both and only tobi and madara have controlled kyuubi with their doujutsus. Itachi said madara was the only one to do so. And craziest thing is that kyuubi instantly recognized tobis chakra just like he instantly recognized edo madara.

    Witnesses:
    Itachi, pain, konan, kisame, minato and kyuubi all gave witness that tobi is or most likely is madara. This is something i can never get over. You cant deny the account of kyuubi, or minato whos first and only guess to who tobi was was madara. Or pain and konan who were working closely with tobi. Or kisame who saw his face and recognized it was madara. Or itachi who said he knew
    Madara was still alive and searched for him.

    Wood release/hashirama cells:
    Both tobi and evidently madara have hashirama cells. Tobi has it cuz hes capatable with replacing limbs to what seems like to be hashirama or zetsu parts. Tobi can use inazagi which takes sharingan and wood release to do. Madara can use wood release and kabuto knows madara took hashiramas powers (dna?)

    Everything tobi has said has been proven true by other characters:
    What tobi said about sage proven by jiraiya. What he said about uchiha massacre was proven by itachi and danzo. Everything he said about hashirama basically proven by kakashi, orochimaru etc. And now kabuto and madara are proving what tobi said about madara. Tobi said madara survived the fight agaisnt hashirama even though he lost. He also said madara gained hashiramas cells and that he gave nagato the rinnegan. Kabuto and madara are verifying these things to be very possible and true.

    Well all these things point to the conclusion that tobi is madara but obviously theres more to it.

    Even though evidently madara is the best posibility he also is not based on the last 3 chapters.

    1. Madara is revived. Wtf. I shouldnt have to explain how edo tensi works abd the whole soul thing
    2. With the dialogue in the past chapters its being hinted that tobi aka "the masked man" used madaras name and reputation to gain attention and start the war

    Just like how fugaku, izuna and obito all died and were shown dead and this proves they are not tobi. I cant deny madara being alive proves that he died so its impossible for him to be tobi also. (kagami is dead too. The 2 elders said they are the last 2 from their generations, which means danzo, hiruzen and yes kagami and everyone else of 3rd sarutobis generation are dead. Besides kagami is an irrevelant character. Iruka is more important than him.)

    And You have to take into account of the dialogue of the chapters saying tobi impersonated madara for reputation.

    But theres ways around it. Despite the recent chapters the evidence of madara being tobi outwieghs the possibility of him not. Tobi can be a product of inazagi, splitting, or a combination of hashirama cells and madaras will, memories, chakra or a piece of his soul. Those are just theories.

    You have to take into account that tobi and madara are very closely alike not based on appearance (which alot of dumb people have based their theories on) but based on knowledge, power And actions. Nobody, no other uchiha would have had the knowledge tobi had except madara because madara had ems and rinnegan and able to decifer the tablets and madara has witnessed the leaf foundation. Tobi had this knowledge through madaras point of view so my theory is........

    That in the future it will be explained that tobi is still somehow madara. It will be another plot twist that defies edo tensi.

    Btw i dont buy into tobi being a zetsu clone cuz we dont even fully know anything about zetsu (where is he from? Why split personalities? Is he even human? Age? Etc) Besides zetsu can clone a person down to the chakra but zetsu cant copy someones memories, knowledge, experience etc. Tobi had knowledge, memories and experiences of madara.
    Ok, 1st of all i made this thread JUST for you:
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=114688
    Unfortunately, some of the simple minded and 2 faced noobs who said, duh, ofc he is'nt madara !! are now agreeing with you in this thread because of their sorry lack of intellect. Anyways lol onto my disagreements:
    Madara knowing about Nagato does'nt prove anything. It only shows that there is a connection between the 2 characters, Tobi and Madara. That i don't deny, as Tobi said he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan, not Madara. Its possible that Madara gave his rinnegan eyes to Tobi before his death (the connection between Tobi and Madara, while beyond dispute, is still vague), Tobi may have been to the hidden rain village and have known about an uzumaki who lived there.....don't say it happened waaayy late. The latest manga chapter shows that Madara did'nt die at the valley of the end.....the senju cells could have helped him live for a long time, up until the time Nagato was around. So there's no mystery there.

    The rinnegan is/was known to other people as well, how else did Jiraiya immediately recognize it when he saw Nagato's eyes? Its the ultimate occular jutsu, so Tobi or anyone else who can would want to attain it.

    The kyuubi can be controlled by anyone who possesses the power of Hashirama(senju cells probly) and has sharingan or the 'power of the uchiha' if you like. Tobi just needed those 2 things, which he does have. And if Tobi is so honest as you claim, he said this thing himself, and potentially Danzo may have been able to tame the 9 tails as well. And while Itachi did say that only Madara had done it, he also said Madara is Tobi and that was a flaw. He clearly did'nt know of the real Madara being dead, or at any rate was definitely deceived by Tobi. Another proof that Madara was'nt the only one: the Sage of the 6 paths controlled all tailed beasts initially, hell he created them. And the 1st hokage and Naruto we know have controlled the 9 tails, its not impossible for a tough ninja to do so(Tobi is that, i'll concede).

    None of those witnesses ever saw the real Madara. Why...? Because if they did their reactions to seeing Tobi's face would have been different. So there was no real way for them to compare it to the real deal to see if tobi was a fake or not. Tobi was the head of akatsuki, the members like Kisame and Itachi very likely took his word at face value. But we the readers know better. We know he lied about the 9 tails attack being a natural disaster to Sasuke, and he has almost definitely lied about his own identity as well. So there's really no way for you to assert that 'everything Tobi has said was proved true...' thats just not the case and i believe you know this fact.

    And if Tobi is just the result of some technique, then which tech is that...? Give me an example from the manga which shows that izanagi can create another version of a person, not a clone which dies with the original but a whole different conscious...? Seriously, boy this is not playing out the way you're imagining it. And you keep saying Fugaku, Izuna etc were all shown dead but so too was Madara in the same way and this is emphatically proven by the fact that he's been resurrected yet you keep saying he's Tobi...? Why? Why is madara, who died more likely to be tobi than Izuna who died, or fugaku who died etc. While Izuna, Fugaku and Kagami were NOT revived by edo tensei, many lesser ninjas(asuma, zabuza etc) were. And Madara was revived. So he is , by rights and facts clearly the least likely candidate to be Tobi. What is likely is that the real Madara is connected to Tobi, that they have met and hashed out a joint agenda/plan. That does'nt make them the same person.

    The knowledege of Tobi is due to the fact that he met Madara after the fight at the valley of the end which Madara survived, Madara directed him to form Akatsuki and gave him the info on the uchiha, their history and all the knowledge on the tablet which he had read. He also very likely told him about the senju + uchiha power= control of kyuubi trick....

    In conclusion,how can you ignore the statements of Madara from the last 2 chapters...? Or Kabuto, who calls Tobi the fake Madara? Madara himself says you know of our plan, not my plan which is what he should say if Tobi is just his long lost other half. Anyways, thats impossible in any case as its already shown that a soul that is not in the pure world(Madara being Tobi means his soul is in the impurel, i.e this world) cannot be brought back.

    Hope this gets across.

    And though i disagree, props for your efforts.
     
         
    Last edited by Cyborg; 10-27-2011 at 09:08 PM.

  6. #26
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    i completely forgot about elder son but there a reason why i guess. I already stated that tobi had knowledge and experience that only madara would have. Elder son did not lead the uchiha, elder son did not have izuna as a brother, he did not fight hashirama and lose and live and steal his dna.
    What knowledge and expierence are you talking about? They were working together, obviosly Tobi knows alot about Madara. Is that a big secret that Madara had brother from whoem he later obtained EMS? Is that a secret that Madara lead Uchiha? Is that a big secret that Madara fought Hashirama? Even Itachi knew all this sh1t and he's not even from that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post

    Also nobody gave witness that tobi was elder son. Nobody. But many many people gave witness that tobi was madara.

    For those facts alone makes tobi being elder son very unlikely. Elder son would not have a motive for attacking the leaf. But madara tobi attacking the leaf is logical and makes sense. Thats another reason why tobi isnt elder son.
    How would anyone give witness about elder son if noone even knows sage had sons? At best Madara and Nagato could have found out about this because they had rinnegan and it could have been written in stone monument.
    How did Kabuto/Oro found out about this is still a mystery. Even Madara was shocked that someone like Kabuto who's not even able to read Uchiha stone monument knows about the secrets of Madara's body etc.

    , the reason why he was acting as Madara was already given in manga, why do you avoid it?
    and obviosly Tobi attacked leaf with a reason, it was either to obtain kyuubi or to fram uchiha, perhaps even do both. Tobi hasn't done a single thing without a reason. Everything goes according to his plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    When he said "your" i immediatly thought that this was a plural your and kabuto meant he was on the side of madara and tobi. Other languages have plural and singular words for "your" but In english we dont have a singular and plural word for "your" (unless you consider "yall" which is slang for you all) but i would need the original japanese scans and a translator to verify if kabuto meant a plural "your" referring to madara and tobi.
    Why do you avoid what he said in the next sentence? He was doubting Tobi, that's why he specificly said he's on Madara's said and not on Tobi's. Kabuto wants Madara as an ally.

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    Tobi and edo madara may be from the same tree but they are 2 different entities. Its like fat buu and evil buu from dragonball z. Or a naruto clone argueing with another naruto clone despite them being the same person (example the recent naruto filler about naruto clones). So of course edo madara will say "our" and "his" amd kabuto says "your" or whatever.

    Tobi is madara creation and why would madara share credit with him? Why wouldnt he? Why not? That question just reminds me of that naruto clones filler where the clones were demanding respect from the original naruto.
    Im sorry but that's all is just a wishful thinking, too much of it, afaik.
    It is Madara's plan and none other one's, especially not some clone's. How do you share such a genius, sinister plan with some clone of yours who's only purpose was to do your erands? This doesn't make sense to me..

    Not only that but it turns out his clone was so cool that he developed incredible s/t jutsu unseen to this world. He even doublecrossed himself and is now more powerful than original himself (s/t + rinnegan = invincible). This doesn't sound silly to you at all?

    Why do you cling to Tobi being Madara so much? Drop your Madara theory and for a sec think about it from a neutral standpoint. Analyze everything and then tell me if you still think that Tobi is Madara.

    This is how I did it :

    When the last chapter came out I was happy because it destroyed all the retarded Shisui/Obito/Izuna(it's not him for obvious reasons) theories.

    But than I realised that there's a high chance it's not the Elder son, rather it's some Madara's apprentice or a clone/creation of his.

    I started analyzing the chapter and figured out it's impossible for him to be Madara clone or whatsoever( for the reasons I gave before).

    So the only option I was left is that it's some apprentice of Madara with whoem he developed this sinister plan.
    I realized this can't be true because Tobi seems to be alot wiser than Madara or anyone else for that matter.

    He never looses his calm, he has everything planned out and everything goes according to his plan (real Madara : things don't seem to ġo according to the plan..herp derp).

    His speech to Naruto - about how Elder and Younger son and their descendants have always fought and how Naruto and Sasuke is destined to fight or rather that he will make them do it - made me realize that some wannabe Madara's pawn couldn't have said this.

    These are words from someone very old and someone very wise.
     
         

  7. #27
    Senior Member Hawker's Avatar
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post

    None of those witnesses ever saw the real Madara. Why...? Because if they did their reactions to seeing Tobi's face would have been different. So there was no real way for them to compare it to the real deal to see if tobi was a fake or not.
    Okay I'm just gonna focus on this part and kill your theory by saying Madara is a world known criminal. They have a statue of him! Of course Kisame knows what he looks like.

    Also Tsuchikage heard Tobi speaking. He knows Madara's voice as he has met him and he didn't say anything, thus agreeing Tobi was/is Madara.

    And you keep saying Fugaku, Izuna etc were all shown dead but so too was Madara
    No he wasn't shown dead.
     
         

  8. #28
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
    Ok, 1st of all i made this thread JUST for you:
    http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=114688
    Unfortunately, some of the simple minded and 2 faced noobs who said, duh, ofc he is'nt madara !! are now agreeing with you in this thread because of their sorry lack of intellect. Anyways lol onto my disagreements:
    Madara knowing about Nagato does'nt prove anything. It only shows that there is a connection between the 2 characters, Tobi and Madara. That i don't deny, as Tobi said he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan, not Madara. Its possible that Madara gave his rinnegan eyes to Tobi before his death (the connection between Tobi and Madara, while beyond dispute, is still vague), Tobi may have been to the hidden rain village and have known about an uzumaki who lived there.....don't say it happened waaayy late. The latest manga chapter shows that Madara did'nt die at the valley of the end.....the senju cells could have helped him live for a long time, up until the time Nagato was around. So there's no mystery there.

    The rinnegan is/was known to other people as well, how else did Jiraiya immediately recognize it when he saw Nagato's eyes? Its the ultimate occular jutsu, so Tobi or anyone else who can would want to attain it.

    The kyuubi can be controlled by anyone who possesses the power of Hashirama(senju cells probly) and has sharingan or the 'power of the uchiha' if you like. Tobi just needed those 2 things, which he does have. And if Tobi is so honest as you claim, he said this thing himself, and potentially Danzo may have been able to tame the 9 tails as well. And while Itachi did say that only Madara had done it, he also said Madara is Tobi and that was a flaw. He clearly did'nt know of the real Madara being dead, or at any rate was definitely deceived by Tobi. Another proof that Madara was'nt the only one: the Sage of the 6 paths controlled all tailed beasts initially, hell he created them. And the 1st hokage and Naruto we know have controlled the 9 tails, its not impossible for a tough ninja to do so(Tobi is that, i'll concede).

    None of those witnesses ever saw the real Madara. Why...? Because if they did their reactions to seeing Tobi's face would have been different. So there was no real way for them to compare it to the real deal to see if tobi was a fake or not. Tobi was the head of akatsuki, the members like Kisame and Itachi very likely took his word at face value. But we the readers know better. We know he lied about the 9 tails attack being a natural disaster to Sasuke, and he has almost definitely lied about his own identity as well. So there's really no way for you to assert that 'everything Tobi has said was proved true...' thats just not the case and i believe you know this fact.

    And if Tobi is just the result of some technique, then which tech is that...? Give me an example from the manga which shows that izanagi can create another version of a person, not a clone which dies with the original but a whole different conscious...? Seriously, boy this is not playing out the way you're imagining it. And you keep saying Fugaku, Izuna etc were all shown dead but so too was Madara in the same way and this is emphatically proven by the fact that he's been resurrected yet you keep saying he's Tobi...? Why? Why is madara, who died more likely to be tobi than Izuna who died, or fugaku who died etc. While Izuna, Fugaku and Kagami were NOT revived by edo tensei, many lesser ninjas(asuma, zabuza etc) were. And Madara was revived. So he is , by rights and facts clearly the least likely candidate to be Tobi. What is likely is that the real Madara is connected to Tobi, that they have met and hashed out a joint agenda/plan. That does'nt make them the same person.

    The knowledege of Tobi is due to the fact that he met Madara after the fight at the valley of the end which Madara survived, Madara directed him to form Akatsuki and gave him the info on the uchiha, their history and all the knowledge on the tablet which he had read. He also very likely told him about the senju + uchiha power= control of kyuubi trick....

    In conclusion,how can you ignore the statements of Madara from the last 2 chapters...? Or Kabuto, who calls Tobi the fake Madara? Madara himself says you know of our plan, not my plan which is what he should say if Tobi is just his long lost other half. Anyways, thats impossible in any case as its already shown that a soul that is not in the pure world(Madara being Tobi means his soul is in the impurel, i.e this world) cannot be brought back.

    Hope this gets across.

    And though i disagree, props for your efforts.


    Word brothah! I would give you +rep but I feel like you are Izuna/Kagame theory fanboy so I won't do it xD
     
         

  9. #29
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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Narubro View Post
    i feel the exact same way... if you look at my threads you'll see i said he was a clone.
    I mosr likely already did look at your thread about this. But i have been saying this from the getgo. Even when edo madara was revived i was telling peopke in their "tobi is fugaku/obito/kagami/etc" threads that tobi is still madara.

    Ask barbobot, cyborg, dave chappelle, hawker, eternalmangekyourinnegan, positive emotions, naruto&itachi.

    Right after 559 i still said tobi is madara and was saying it may be due to inazagi, splitting or madara sealing his soul in another body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharingan Itachi View Post
    The reasons given by you can be clues for two things and two things alone which are: either tobi is madara which was proven wrong or that tobi is a man who's very close to madara and whom madara had revealed his secrets and his plans to him. +rep for hard work
    Yes those are the 2 most likely possibilites

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    wow, nothing less from you man...this should be made a sticky thread as I would ASSUME! that every noob who thinks otherwise would read it and stop babbling nonsense in manga discussion area <-- and that would be my dream, that one day every noob would just stop, and be reasonable and logical..I guess that's too much to ask.. :/

    but yeah alone the witness part is enough to prove Tobi is Madara...but if that isn't enough to noobs then the Kyuubi taming part should be obvious

    Also one thing that you didn't mention..Tsuchikage heard Tobi's voice and he would obviously said something if he would've thought it didn't belong to Madara. Since he has heard Madara speaking so he knows what he sounds like. But yeah I guess that was Kagami's or Fugakus voice lol.
    The noobs stop babbling nonsense would be my dream too man. Im on a mission to make it into a reality even if 1 noob at a time

    The witnesses and tobi having madara knowledge and memories is irrefutable. Even a noob SHOULD see that

    And yea you are right. That Crossed my mind that onoiki is a witness and even he couldnt imagine who tobi could be other than madara and hes the most experienced ninja in naruto. Thanks man

    Quote Originally Posted by chimbroma View Post
    really nice points .....but why doesn't edo madara have space/time jutsu
    Chapter after chapter madara has shown a new jutsu. Fire jutsus, sharingan, Ems, sasunoo, rinnegan and now mutha fukkn wood release (wtf kishi). Hadnt the kyuubi been sealed in naruto madara would have summoned him and dont be suprised if madara start using inazagi.

    But madara hasnt shown if he can use spacetime or not.

    Also tobi may have gained spacetime on his own.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    Okay I'm just gonna focus on this part and kill your theory by saying Madara is a world known criminal. They have a statue of him! Of course Kisame knows what he looks like.

    Also Tsuchikage heard Tobi speaking. He knows Madara's voice as he has met him and he didn't say anything, thus agreeing Tobi was/is Madara.

    No he wasn't shown dead.
    They have a statue of George Washington...so do you know exactly what he looks like? His color of hair, eyes or a million other details that statues can never show....?

    Have you heard, ever of edo tensei? Try to look it up and you'll understand why Madara is/was dead.

    And don't be a lazy bum.....address the whole post i made, otherwise the only thing you've killed is your own credibility.


    @NarutoVsGoku i'm waiting for your answer,
    @EternalMangRinnegan: I don't believe in either Izuna or Kagami's theory, i was just showing they were more likely than Madara to be Tobi.
     
         
    Last edited by Cyborg; 10-27-2011 at 09:35 PM.

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
    They have a statue of George Washington...so do you know exactly what he looks like? His color of hair, eyes or a million other details that statues can never show....?

    Have you heard, ever of edo tensei? Try to look it up and you'll understand why Madara is/was dead.

    And don't be a lazy bum.....address the whole post i made, otherwise the only thing you've killed is your own credibility.
    You just avoided the Onoki part. Which I think is a great evidence.

    And I'm not going to adress your whole post 'cause it's too long and I'm lazy as you said and I can just kill it with that reply or at least challenge it.

    ps. Minato even said: "there's only one I know who can use space time ninjutsu at that level and that's Madara" ...still not Madara?
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    You just avoided the Onoki part. Which I think is a great evidence.

    And I'm not going to adress your whole post 'cause it's too long and I'm lazy as you said and I can just kill it with that reply or at least challenge it.

    ps. Minato even said: "there's only one I know who can use space time ninjutsu at that level and that's Madara" ...still not Madara?
    You avoided 95% of my post and you notice one line i overlooked, what a douchebag you truly are.

    And i avoided it because its bull, Onoki heard him.....he was just around at that era, he never said 'snap, that sounds like the madara from my childhood'.

    Yeah and Minato also said to naruto AFTER that that the 'masked man' was
    behind the 9 tail attack.....he did'nt say madara was behind the attack, why? You see unlike you i'm not pulling this outta my ass, and actually have facts to back up what i say, i don't just spew random bullshit like a fanboy who's butt hurt cuz the manga proved him wrong.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborg View Post
    You avoided 95% of my post and you notice one line i overlooked, what a douchebag you truly are.

    And i avoided it because its bull, Onoki heard him.....he was just around at that era, he never said 'snap, that sounds like the madara from my childhood'.

    Yeah and Minato also said to naruto AFTER that that the 'masked man' was
    behind the 9 tail attack.....he did'nt say madara was behind the attack, why? You see unlike you i'm not pulling this outta my ass, and actually have facts to back up what i say, i don't just spew random bullshit like a fanboy who's butt hurt cuz the manga proved him wrong.
    Onoki wasn't just around, he fought Madara remember? So it's highly likely that he can make a difference between Madara's voice and someone elses voice.

    No Minato didn't say that but isn't it kinda obvious after the first statement?.... : D

    Now you're getting upset dude, I'm not making anything up so just leave that old flaming tactic. No fanboys here. Don't be mad

    You really aren't arguing properly with my points, just accusing me fanboy and hinting that my points uses their value as I didn't addres your whole "novel".
     
         
    Last edited by Hawker; 10-27-2011 at 09:53 PM.

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Ok.i am not going to type a shit load of thing here...but i find the madara/zetsu theory very plausible,i mean tobi never actualy displayed a mangekyou sharingan..only a normal one...and being that he has hashiramas dna inserted in him would be perfect...a nonuchiha to use a sharingan non stop,and a rinnegan
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Its dope...


    'i also thought

    what if tobi is....

    TOBI oooooo

    lol


    but good job man no joke
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    You just avoided the Onoki part. Which I think is a great evidence.

    And I'm not going to adress your whole post 'cause it's too long and I'm lazy as you said and I can just kill it with that reply or at least challenge it.

    ps. Minato even said: "there's only one I know who can use space time ninjutsu at that level and that's Madara" ...still not Madara?
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/11.html

    Where does he say it you fool? That was the dumbest lie I have ever seen.

    P.S. You avoided all other evidence which is far better than your looks or voice "evidence"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    Onoki wasn't just around, he fought Madara remember? So it's highly likely that he can make a difference between Madara's voice and someone elses voice.
    Onooki was little boy, at best teenager when they met. Onooki probably saw him on a battlefield. If they would have fought than Onooki wouldn't have been alive now.
    Besides, Tobi is old. He's voice would have changed if he was Madara. Onooki and the rest thought he's the real Madara so he should have been 120 years old by the Kage Summit. Obviosly, his voice is not evidence here. In anime it's high pitched, I doubt that the 35 years old looking Madara will have the same high pitched voice.
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 10-27-2011 at 10:15 PM.

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Nice work.You touched on a lot of the things i picked up on, but i won't rule out the fact that he could be somebody else.All we know for certain is that tobi pretty much knows everything about madara,and regardless of his identity he knew that the name madara was enough to strike fear into the shinobi alliance.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v53/c502/11.html

    Where does he say it you fool? That was the dumbest lie I have ever seen.

    P.S. You avoided all other evidence which is far better than your looks or voice "evidence"
    was that really the part where I was refferring to?...I don't think so. As Cyborg said it was after the battle. And if he even then didn't say it with the actual words that I referred to then I'm sorry if I remember wrong...I just remember him saying "...there's only one person I can think that can do that (Madara)"...I he's not talking about space time tech then fine but still referring to him as Madara, and that's what I remember.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
    was that really the part where I was refferring to?...I don't think so. As Cyborg said it was after the battle. And if he even then didn't say it with the actual words that I referred to then I'm sorry if I remember wrong...I just remember him saying "...there's only one person I can think that can do that"...I he's not talking about space time tech then fine but still referring to him as Madara, and that's what I remember.
    Well, obviosly. Who do you think could be powerful enough to do all that? There wasn't any other option to choose from. Madara is the obvios answer, that goes for everyone else who thought it's Madara.

    Fact is, Tobi is behind the mask and he was doing all those things not Madara. World doesn't know about Tobi, who in fact is as powerful as Madara and now even more powerful than him.

    Geez, I can't believe you dumbasses can't figure this out on yourself. Gotta spoon feed everyone.
     
         

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    Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Well, obviosly. Who do you think could be powerful enough to do all that? There wasn't any other option to choose from. Madara is the obvios answer, that goes for everyone else who thought it's Madara.

    Fact is, Tobi is behind the mask and he was doing all those things not Madara. World doesn't know about Tobi, who in fact is as powerful as Madara and now even more powerful than him.

    Geez, I can't believe you dumbasses can't figure this out on yourself. Gotta spoon feed everyone.
    Wow, someone thinks highly of himself. I think you have the biggest ego in all of NB. Fact is Eternal, even your theory that Tobi was Madara's apprentice is flawed. I can see why you have problems with everyone else's theories but your own, but you ignore so many flaws in your own theories that its laughable. I won't go into the whole 'elder son' theory because its old to me but this thread is the first time I've heard you mention the apprentice theory so I'll concentrate on that.

    Whoever this apprentice was, if in fact he is Tobi, he left his whole life behind. In fact, he left his life so far in the dust that he'd prefer this lie over his old life. Does that really seem to be consistent with any possible character profile? I mean Kagami is one possibility of being Tobi because we don't know how he died and he could have used the lie of having died to cover up his treachery. But if Tobi is some unknown character, as you are suggesting, than that would mean that no one in all the Narutoverse knows about him. Or at least he was such an unknown in the shinobi world that he didn't have any major ties to any village system.

    Not only that, but no significant character development has ever been dedicated to Tobi other than developing his character as Madara. Seriously you can't ignore this fact, Kishi has been telling us that Tobi is Madara all this time for a reason. So if we can't name a person that might be Tobi, what profile can we create that would explain Tobi's obsessive connection to Madara and his complete disregard to his past life?

    The only explanation is that he wasn't a human apprentice of Madara's, but rather his creation that he essentially considered his apprentice. I mean there is no other way to explain the fact that no one is the world knows who Tobi is and that he would so freely give up his whole life.... other than if he had no real life to start. Again, if you really think Tobi is anyone other than a Madara-Zetsu hybrid than I don't think you have very much respect for Kishi or any Manga writer for that matter. Character development and information is essential to making a manga a success. The fact that Madara and Zetsu have been the focus of Kishi's story for so long is evidence of this.
     
         

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