Re: Madara and Tobi comparisons and differences: reasons why tobi is and is NOT madar
Ok, 1st of all i made this thread JUST for you:
Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku
Unfortunately, some of the simple minded and 2 faced noobs who said, duh, ofc he is'nt madara !! are now agreeing with you in this thread because of their sorry lack of intellect. Anyways lol onto my disagreements:
Madara knowing about Nagato does'nt prove anything. It only shows that there is a connection between the 2 characters, Tobi and Madara. That i don't deny, as Tobi said he was the one who gave Nagato the rinnegan, not Madara. Its possible that Madara gave his rinnegan eyes to Tobi before his death (the connection between Tobi and Madara, while beyond dispute, is still vague), Tobi may have been to the hidden rain village and have known about an uzumaki who lived there.....don't say it happened waaayy late. The latest manga chapter shows that Madara did'nt die at the valley of the end.....the senju cells could have helped him live for a long time, up until the time Nagato was around. So there's no mystery there.
The rinnegan is/was known to other people as well, how else did Jiraiya immediately recognize it when he saw Nagato's eyes? Its the ultimate occular jutsu, so Tobi or anyone else who can would want to attain it.
The kyuubi can be controlled by anyone who possesses the power of Hashirama(senju cells probly) and has sharingan or the 'power of the uchiha' if you like. Tobi just needed those 2 things, which he does have. And if Tobi is so honest as you claim, he said this thing himself, and potentially Danzo may have been able to tame the 9 tails as well. And while Itachi did say that only Madara had done it, he also said Madara is Tobi and that was a flaw. He clearly did'nt know of the real Madara being dead, or at any rate was definitely deceived by Tobi. Another proof that Madara was'nt the only one: the Sage of the 6 paths controlled all tailed beasts initially, hell he created them. And the 1st hokage and Naruto we know have controlled the 9 tails, its not impossible for a tough ninja to do so(Tobi is that, i'll concede).
None of those witnesses ever saw the real Madara. Why...? Because if they did their reactions to seeing Tobi's face would have been different. So there was no real way for them to compare it to the real deal to see if tobi was a fake or not. Tobi was the head of akatsuki, the members like Kisame and Itachi very likely took his word at face value. But we the readers know better. We know he lied about the 9 tails attack being a natural disaster to Sasuke, and he has almost definitely lied about his own identity as well. So there's really no way for you to assert that 'everything Tobi has said was proved true...' thats just not the case and i believe you know this fact.
And if Tobi is just the result of some technique, then which tech is that...? Give me an example from the manga which shows that izanagi can create another version of a person, not a clone which dies with the original but a whole different conscious...? Seriously, boy this is not playing out the way you're imagining it. And you keep saying Fugaku, Izuna etc were all shown dead but so too was Madara in the same way and this is emphatically proven by the fact that he's been resurrected yet you keep saying he's Tobi...? Why? Why is madara, who died more likely to be tobi than Izuna who died, or fugaku who died etc. While Izuna, Fugaku and Kagami were NOT revived by edo tensei, many lesser ninjas(asuma, zabuza etc) were. And Madara was revived. So he is , by rights and facts clearly the least likely candidate to be Tobi. What is likely is that the real Madara is connected to Tobi, that they have met and hashed out a joint agenda/plan. That does'nt make them the same person.
The knowledege of Tobi is due to the fact that he met Madara after the fight at the valley of the end which Madara survived, Madara directed him to form Akatsuki and gave him the info on the uchiha, their history and all the knowledge on the tablet which he had read. He also very likely told him about the senju + uchiha power= control of kyuubi trick....
In conclusion,how can you ignore the statements of Madara from the last 2 chapters...? Or Kabuto, who calls Tobi the fake Madara? Madara himself says you know of our plan, not my plan which is what he should say if Tobi is just his long lost other half. Anyways, thats impossible in any case as its already shown that a soul that is not in the pure world(Madara being Tobi means his soul is in the impurel, i.e this world) cannot be brought back.
Hope this gets across.
And though i disagree, props for your efforts.