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  1. #1
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    religion vs science

    first off, i didn't create this thread to shove religion down anyone's throat. i am simple attempting to prove that science isn't more credible than religion, which most of you will probably disagree on, based on my readings in the atheism discussion thread.

    Now one of the basic laws of physics in science today is that non-life cannot bring rise to life, so how did "life form" first came into existence on earth?. The most scientifically common explanation is that when the earth was form 4.+ billion years ago, water+ some other basic elements were unintentionally mixed together to form the first cellular organism (contradiction non life cannot form life), then over a extended period of time micro/cellular organism evolved into complex organism, scientist today call this process macro-evolution (that's right macro not micro). now let me explain how illogical and unrealistic macro evolution and evolution in general is. According to evolutionist multi-cellular life begun in water thus the first complex life was a marine organism, now they claim over an extended period of time (millions of years) some of these marine organism crawled out of the water thus evolving into organism that can live out of the conditions of the sea ,then those specie somehow intern evolved into total different species of animals with different genetic make up (reptiles, amphibians, mammals and etc) how far-fetched is that.

    Now a fish cannot and I repeat cannot miraculously turn into a rabbit by mere "time" and "chance", NEW chromosome MUST be added to the gene pool of the fish to change its genetic make up to that of a mammal, therefore some supreme being has been adding to the gene pools of organisms to form complete different new organism throughout the history of the earth, scientist consistently under mind this miraculous phenomenon by coming up with weak and shallow explanations about time, probability, mutation and chance to illuminate their far-fetched theories, which is them being in denial of a God. NEW chromosomes/DNA can't just come out of nowhere over a long period (millions of years) of time, someone or something must have created these new genes then added these new information to the gene pools to form a complete new specie, mutation is a non factor because mutation damages and alters pre-existing DNA it doesn't form new DNA's so that is a non-factor.

    to prove my logic, you don't see chickens laying eggs that turn out to be a dog/cat/rat etc, a chicken can only reproduce an organism that is exactly the same in genetic make up, thus an embryo of an chicken will develop into chicken. Unless new information is added to the gene-pool of the chicken, then end product will not change.

    Now it just so happen that earth is at an specific distance from the sun, which enables it to harbor life, is this just by chance?, the ozone layer is a sheet over the earth that blocks out the ultra violet rays from the sun, did that just magically appeared there just by chance?, the moon is at a specific distance from the earth, that allows the oceans to form proper waves, specific/proper amount of CO2, O2, hydrogen etc exist in our atmosphere to maintain suitable weather conditions to harbor life. The earth it self is just too much of a ingeniously complex engineered system to have just come into being by mere probability, time and chance. a single cell that is naked to the human eye is able to store a billion years of history and information! (One human cell), these miraculous, complex engineering doesn't just happen without "supreme intervention", therefore i refuse to believe that there isn't some form of entity/deity (God) that has been influencing the evolution of the earth.

    that's why i believe an atheist cannot possibly be a logical thinking person, because if one is knowledgeable to a certain degree, then one should be able apply logic to that knowledge and instantaneously know that a supreme being has to exit.

    and like i said earlier I'm not shoving Hinduism or Christianity down anybodies throat and merely implying that atheism and non-belief of deities is more illogical rather than logical.
     
         

  2. #2
    Paladin Narubro's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    im religous but.... you cant prove religion. you can collect data from scientific experiments. im sorry
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member Amanwithnoplan's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    What you wrote is one of the most illogical things I have read, which is funny, since you said the people who believe in science are "illogical". I don't have the time, nor inclanation to explain these things to you. Do not fret though, someone will help you.
     
         

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    Senior Member Exaar's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Here we go

    Wonder how long it will take for this to be closed
     
         

  5. #5
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    dang you three read fast
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Can we just stick to naruto or any manga?
     
         

  7. #7
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Can we just stick to naruto or any manga?
    "general discussion"

    other subjects are discussed here other than manga's
     
         

  8. #8
    Senior Member tacobelt's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    the argument is irrational therefor i will use my superior logic and excellent hand-eye coordination to press the "back" button after finishing this post.
     
         

  9. #9
    You are weak -_- UchihaJetx's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    -_- well I didn't read your explanation cuz I don't like reading especially when it's that much info. but is this some kind of difference between them?..
    but if it is about naruto (manga) I will read it
     
         

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    Better's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    "general discussion"

    other subjects are discussed here other than manga's
    Very true haha ok I take it back
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Better View Post
    Can we just stick to naruto or any manga?
    ikr!
    If i wanted idealistic discussionlike this i'd watch CNN
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    you know what's funny? scientist have found out that the sun heats the water which then evaporates, turns into clouds and then falls back down in the form of rain and repeats this cycle, they are figuring out the complexity of the human body and brain, and they know that certain creatures lives to provide us with the resources so that we can live, and they know that certain things on this earth provide the creatures with things so that they can live, they know that the sun provides us with sunlight in the morning and the moon does so at night, and they know that the sun never comes close enough to burn us all alive. they know that certain things work with another to produce another thing.

    and the funny part is that they aren't smart enough to know it's not by accident
     
         

  13. #13
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Amanwithnoplan View Post
    What you wrote is one of the most illogical things I have read, which is funny, since you said the people who believe in science are "illogical". I don't have the time, nor inclanation to explain these things to you. Do not fret though, someone will help you.
    wrong wrong you misinterpreted my whole argument, i'm sorry if your not able to comprehend my logic but these discussions are not for 3rd graders
     
         

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    Senior Member Exaar's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    you know what's funny? scientist have found out that the sun heats the water which then evaporates, turns into clouds and then falls back down in the form of rain and repeats this cycle, they are figuring out the complexity of the human body and brain, and they know that certain creatures lives to provide us with the resources so that we can live, and they know that certain things on this earth provide the creatures with things so that they can live, they know that the sun provides us with sunlight in the morning and the moon does so at night, and they know that the sun never comes close enough to burn us all alive. they know that certain things work with another to produce another thing.

    and the funny part is that they aren't smart enough to know it's not by accident
    Funny Thing is i don't see why it can't be a mere "accident"

    People just like to put meanings behind things to try to explain the unexplainable

    Or people just don't want to accept that our lives have no meaning at all, they want to think we humans are something special. But when you look at how big the universe is and how Small and insignificant We and the earth actually are.
     
         

  15. #15
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    you know what's funny? scientist have found out that the sun heats the water which then evaporates, turns into clouds and then falls back down in the form of rain and repeats this cycle, they are figuring out the complexity of the human body and brain, and they know that certain creatures lives to provide us with the resources so that we can live, and they know that certain things on this earth provide the creatures with things so that they can live, they know that the sun provides us with sunlight in the morning and the moon does so at night, and they know that the sun never comes close enough to burn us all alive. they know that certain things work with another to produce another thing.

    and the funny part is that they aren't smart enough to know it's not by accident
    finally, somebody with a brain that works
     
         

  16. #16
    Original Akatsuki Member Dragonfly X's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    There is a wonderful quote I am trying to remember here,
    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed, Faith is the denial of views so that faith can be preserved"
    And there goes your argument
     
         

  17. #17
    Senior Member uzumakikenshin's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    just one question:

    do you say that if you are an atheist it means you automatically believes in science or in evolution?

    and another thing:

    THEIST does not revolves around logic, they based it on faith... while ATHEISM does
     
         

  18. #18
    Bakudo no Hachi ichi Danku Makeril's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    As far as I see it, religion got us where we are today, but it is prolonging the progress for tomorrow. However, you're nonsensical rubbish is just that, rubbish. Illogical arguments are based around inferior intellect. I refuse to elucidate reality in any dispute. You are unmistakably not an erudite individual with such a fallacious argument; and, I will therefore take my leave. Ciao!
     
         
    Last edited by Makeril; 10-30-2011 at 02:18 AM.

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    finally, somebody with a brain that works
    thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Exaar View Post
    Funny Thing is i don't see why it can't be a mere "accident"

    People just like to put meanings behind things to try to explain the unexplainable

    Or people just don't want to accept that our lives have no meaning at all, they want to think we humans are something special. But when you look at how big the universe is and how Small and insignificant We and the earth actually are.
    think about the inside of a car and how complex everything works together, think about an assembly line where the parts to certain things are assembled by a even more complex machine. they were created, those things aren't accidents

    now think about the human body, or the complexity of the planet


    and a lot of us would find it easier to not believe in God and just do whatever the heck we want while we still have this life, than to bound ourselves by unnecessary rules
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    first off, i didn't create this thread to shove religion down anyone's throat. i am simple attempting to prove that science isn't more credible than religion, which most of you will probably disagree on, based on my readings in the atheism discussion thread.

    Now one of the basic laws of physics in science today is that non-life cannot bring rise to life, so how did "life form" first came into existence on earth?. The most scientifically common explanation is that when the earth was form 4.+ billion years ago, water+ some other basic elements were unintentionally mixed together to form the first cellular organism (contradiction non life cannot form life), then over a extended period of time micro/cellular organism evolved into complex organism, scientist today call this process macro-evolution (that's right macro not micro). now let me explain how illogical and unrealistic macro evolution and evolution in general is. According to evolutionist multi-cellular life begun in water thus the first complex life was a marine organism, now they claim over an extended period of time (millions of years) some of these marine organism crawled out of the water thus evolving into organism that can live out of the conditions of the sea

    Now a fish cannot and I repeat cannot miraculously turn into a rabbit by mere "time" and "chance", NEW chromosome MUST be added to the gene pool of the fish to change its genetic make up to that of a mammal, therefore some supreme being has been adding to the gene pools of organisms to form complete different new organism throughout the history of the earth, scientist consistently under mind this miraculous phenomenon by coming up with weak and shallow explanations about time, probability, mutation and chance to illuminate their far-fetched theories, which is them being in denial of a God. NEW chromosomes/DNA can't just come out of nowhere over a long period (millions of years) of time, someone or something must have created these new genes then added these new information to the gene pools to form a complete new specie, mutation is a non factor because mutation damages and alters pre-existing DNA it doesn't form new DNA's so that is a non-factor.

    to prove my logic, you don't see chickens laying eggs that turn out to be a dog/cat/rat etc, a chicken can only reproduce an organism that is exactly the same in genetic make up, thus an embryo of an chicken will develop into chicken. Unless new information is added to the gene-pool of the chicken, then end product will not change.

    Now it just so happen that earth is at an specific distance from the sun, which enables it to harbor life, is this just by chance?, the ozone layer is a sheet over the earth that blocks out the ultra violet rays from the sun, did that just magically appeared there just by chance?, the moon is at a specific distance from the earth, that allows the oceans to form proper waves, specific/proper amount of CO2, O2, hydrogen etc exist in our atmosphere to maintain suitable weather conditions to harbor life. The earth it self is just too much of a ingeniously complex engineered system to have just come into being by mere probability, time and chance. a single cell that is naked to the human eye is able to store a billion years of history and information! (One human cell), these miraculous, complex engineering doesn't just happen without "supreme intervention", therefore i refuse to believe that there isn't some form of entity/deity (God) that has been influencing the evolution of the earth.

    that's why i believe an atheist cannot possibly be a logical thinking person, because if one is knowledgeable to a certain degree, then one should be able apply logic to that knowledge and instantaneously know that a supreme being has to exit.

    and like i said earlier I'm not shoving Hinduism or Christianity down anybodies throat and merely implying that atheism and non-belief of deities is more illogical rather than logical.
    "...then those specie somehow intern evolved into total different species of animals with different genetic make up (reptiles, amphibians, mammals and etc) how far-fetched is that."

    It's not far-fetched at all. You said it yourself, over millions of years, these organisms changed. You go out of your way to point out Microevolution is different than Macroevolution, a sentiment you revealed you believe in when you said, "...then over a extended period of time micro/cellular organism evolved into complex organism, scientist today call this process macro-evolution (that's right macro not micro)" however what you need to realize is Macroevolution is the accumulation of microevolutions over time.

    What you need to learn about evolution is that it is not like Pokemon-- animals do not start out as one thing and miraculously pop into another. Small changes in genotype (that is, the genes) and phenotype (as in, physical attributes and traits like legs, eyes, etc.) ACCUMULATE over millions of years and eventually speciation occurs. Sometimes these changes can occur rapidly, or slowly, as stated in the Punctuated Equillibrium theory of evolution.


    "Now a fish cannot and I repeat cannot miraculously turn into a rabbit by mere "time" and "chance", NEW chromosome MUST be added to the gene pool of the fish to change its genetic make up to that of a mammal,"

    You're right! A fish cannot miraculously turn into a rabbit by mere chance. In fact, Evolution agrees with you. An animal doesn't randomly turn into another animal. Because of Natural Selection, traits that are favorable in an organism allow it to survive and pass on it's genes to it's offspring. Then that offspring's favorable traits allow IT to survive and pass on IT's genes to IT's offspring-- as a result, miniscule changes occur from generation to generation-- and these changes accumulate over time and cause it to speciate from its ancestors. So, to counter your arguement, No, species don't just randomly change by chance (with the exception of random genetic mutations) they change because they have favorable traits that are passed down to it's offspring and so on and so forth.

    "scientist consistently under mind this miraculous phenomenon by coming up with weak and shallow explanations about time, probability, mutation and chance to illuminate their far-fetched theories, which is them being in denial of a God. NEW chromosomes/DNA can't just come out of nowhere over a long period (millions of years) of time, someone or something must have created these new genes then added these new information to the gene pools to form a complete new specie, mutation is a non factor because mutation damages and alters pre-existing DNA it doesn't form new DNA's so that is a non-factor."

    Well, how is, Scientifically, (since we're talking about Science) a sentient God creating everything any more plausible? Prove that with science, since you're disproving science with science. =]


    "to prove my logic, you don't see chickens laying eggs that turn out to be a dog/cat/rat etc, a chicken can only reproduce an organism that is exactly the same in genetic make up, thus an embryo of an chicken will develop into chicken. Unless new information is added to the gene-pool of the chicken, then end product will not change."

    Again, you misunderstand Evolution. You're assuming animals randomly turn into other things for no reason. You need to study Natural Selection, which drives Evolution.

    "Now it just so happen that earth is at an specific distance from the sun, which enables it to harbor life, is this just by chance?, the ozone layer is a sheet over the earth that blocks out the ultra violet rays from the sun, did that just magically appeared there just by chance?, the moon is at a specific distance from the earth, that allows the oceans to form proper waves, specific/proper amount of CO2, O2, hydrogen etc exist in our atmosphere to maintain suitable weather conditions to harbor life. The earth it self is just too much of a ingeniously complex engineered system to have just come into being by mere probability, time and chance. a single cell that is naked to the human eye is able to store a billion years of history and information! (One human cell), these miraculous, complex engineering doesn't just happen without "supreme intervention", therefore i refuse to believe that there isn't some form of entity/deity (God) that has been influencing the evolution of the earth."

    Yes, this is just by chance! And it's not exactly a rarity in the universe. Hundreds of planets have been found in the so called "Goldilocks Zone" which is the perfect distance from its sun to harbor life.

    Also, think about it this way-- even if we are a cosmic rarity, the fact that we exist and comprehend that we exist is the only reason we recognize we're a rarity. Otherwise, if we didn't exist, we wouldn't know any better.
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    thank you



    think about the inside of a car and how complex everything works together, think about an assembly line where the parts to certain things are assembled by a even more complex machine. they were created, those things aren't accidents

    now think about the human body, or the complexity of the planet


    and a lot of us would find it easier to not believe in God and just do whatever the heck we want while we still have this life, than to bound ourselves by unnecessary rules
    A human's body works the way it works because that's the only way it COULD work under these conditions. You can't isolate the development of the human body over time from the development of the earth.

    I know you think, "we're too perfectly crafted to be made by accident" but the fact is, we weren't. We evolved this way to better adapt to the world because if we didn't adapt, we would have been extinct.

    for the 60000th time, Atheists aren't just anarchistic loons that do whatever the hell they want in life WHENEVER they want.

    I was raised with morals and ethics bestowed upon me by my parents and teachers. Just because I don't think I'll go to Hell if I kill someone, doesn't mean I don't think it's just morally wrong to do so.
     
         

  22. #22
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    There is a wonderful quote I am trying to remember here,
    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed, Faith is the denial of views so that faith can be preserved"
    And there goes your argument
    this fails in so many different ways for my views are also based off what is observed not faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rock View Post
    It doesn't matter what you think.
    um yes it does

    Quote Originally Posted by uzumakikenshin View Post
    just one question:

    do you say that if you are an atheist it means you automatically believes in science or in evolution?
    naw i didn't say that

    Quote Originally Posted by uzumakikenshin View Post
    and another thing:

    THEIST does not revolves around logic, they based it on faith... while ATHEISM does
    i'm aware of that, however i have a slightly different reasoning, for me i mostly use logic rather than just faith, theists however believe in a deities without a solid reasoning thats just faith (a belief in something not seen)

    also theism don't belive in no form of deities not just faith.
     
         

  23. #23
    Senior Member uzumakikenshin's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    There is a wonderful quote I am trying to remember here,
    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed, Faith is the denial of views so that faith can be preserved"
    And there goes your argument
    FAITH is not the denial of views... I truthfully believe some facts that SCIENCE creates and proves.. just like how the rain is made or how humans and animals reproduce.... I believe in some proven facts but it does not contradict my FAITH..

    I do believe that for a perfect process to happen there is a supreme being who actualizes it.. just how the earth is perfectly revolving about the sun.. it's not a mere accident for me.. I believe that SOMEONE makes those "accidents" to happen.


    @ackeem: good... because some directly connects ATHEISM with EVOLUTION...
     
         
    Last edited by uzumakikenshin; 10-30-2011 at 02:09 AM.

  24. #24
    Original Akatsuki Member Dragonfly X's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    this fails in so many different ways for my views are also based off what is observed not faith.
    So God popped down to you and said "hey, what's up? Just wanted you to know, yeah...I am here, so...no more doing what you do in the shower every morning, that there is a sin!"
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    So God popped down to you and said "hey, what's up? Just wanted you to know, yeah...I am here, so...no more doing what you do in the shower every morning, that there is a sin!"
    Crap. I sin ALOT.....
     
         

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