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  1. #26
    Original Akatsuki Member Dragonfly X's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Crap. I sin ALOT.....
    Eeewww, you eat a ton of potatoes in the shower? That's not good, one of the 7 deadlies I would say
     
         

  2. #27
    Senior Member tacobelt's Avatar
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    Rules of Acquisition #15.
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    Re: religion vs science

    religion is wishful thinking. would you rather have 1 highly skilled doctor or 1 billion priests praying when you get into an accident. its convenient how ppl say "its a miracle" to define the probability that favors them. & its convenient how it only helps when its vague. Cut an arterie and no amount of praying will fix it.. call a doctor, let him do the work and OMG its a miracle you survived.
    9/10 ppl die they say its a miracle 1 survived.
    1/10 ppl die they say its a miracle only 1 died.
    10/10 ppl die they say its miracle it wasn't more.
    point being its a self fulfilling mentality. as far as the whole "too complex to be evolution" say that to all the extinct species. nature is a scatter shot. You either die or adapt. Trillions of stars, billions of galaxies in the universe. its not just a wallpaper in the sky. its a scatter shot.
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    A human's body works the way it works because that's the only way it COULD work under these conditions. You can't isolate the development of the human body over time from the development of the earth.

    I know you think, "we're too perfectly crafted to be made by accident" but the fact is, we weren't. We evolved this way to better adapt to the world because if we didn't adapt, we would have been extinct.

    for the 60000th time, Atheists aren't just anarchistic loons that do whatever the hell they want in life WHENEVER they want.

    I was raised with morals and ethics bestowed upon me by my parents and teachers. Just because I don't think I'll go to Hell if I kill someone, doesn't mean I don't think it's just morally wrong to do so.
    and yet, you totally ignore everything by turning to science. most atheist turn to science when they don't want to accept the existence of God, but it's not you. as God says, that serpent is cunning. he gave the nonbelievers a tool to use.

    I gave you examples, if you ignore those then anything else I say won't matter to you.

    but my last warning is be careful, the devil is very real and intelligent.
    here in the US, God isn't even allowed in public schools, but the teachings of science and ALL their theories are, private schools cost money while homeschooling isn't much of an option for busy parents. *sigh* it's so sad to watch the be so blind
     
         

  4. #29
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    So God popped down to you and said "hey, what's up? Just wanted you to know, yeah...I am here, so...no more doing what you do in the shower every morning, that there is a sin!"
    fail again that's not what i implied, i meant my views are based off what is observed meaning the complexity of the earth on a whole. your mind is so shallow to the point you can't even properly interpret a post.

    @introvert in the process of replying to your post
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by tacobelt View Post
    religion is wishful thinking. would you rather have 1 highly skilled doctor or 1 billion priests praying when you get into an accident. its convenient how ppl say "its a miracle" to define the probability that favors them. & its convenient how it only helps when its vague. Cut an arterie and no amount of praying will fix it.. call a doctor, let him do the work and OMG its a miracle you survived.
    9/10 ppl die they say its a miracle 1 survived.
    1/10 ppl die they say its a miracle only 1 died.
    10/10 ppl die they say its miracle it wasn't more.
    point being its a self fulfilling mentality. as far as the whole "too complex to be evolution" say that to all the extinct species. nature is a scatter shot. You either die or adapt. Trillions of stars, billions of galaxies in the universe. its not just a wallpaper in the sky. its a scatter shot.
    This. ^

    LOL what the sexy Moegi!?
     
         

  6. #31
    Senior Member tacobelt's Avatar
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    Rules of Acquisition #15.
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    This. ^

    LOL what the sexy Moegi!?
    oh noes! you have seen through the amazing turned horizontal to confuse no jutsu technique
     
         

  7. #32
    Senior Member uzumakikenshin's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by tacobelt View Post
    religion is wishful thinking. would you rather have 1 highly skilled doctor or 1 billion priests praying when you get into an accident. its convenient how ppl say "its a miracle" to define the probability that favors them. & its convenient how it only helps when its vague. Cut an arterie and no amount of praying will fix it.. call a doctor, let him do the work and OMG its a miracle you survived.
    9/10 ppl die they say its a miracle 1 survived.
    1/10 ppl die they say its a miracle only 1 died.
    10/10 ppl die they say its miracle it wasn't more.
    point being its a self fulfilling mentality. as far as the whole "too complex to be evolution" say that to all the extinct species. nature is a scatter shot. You either die or adapt. Trillions of stars, billions of galaxies in the universe. its not just a wallpaper in the sky. its a scatter shot.

    YOU need to understand this... it was also said and taught in CHRISTIANS that even if you pray for something if it's not in GOD's will it will not be done..

    and can you please show us evidence on those statistics that you have given us? 9/10, 1/10,10/10? where do you get that? since I assume you believe in facts then prove it with facts...
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    So God popped down to you and said "hey, what's up? Just wanted you to know, yeah...I am here, so...no more doing what you do in the shower every morning, that there is a sin!"
    why don't you try reading the bible sometime, really, I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all.
     
         

  9. #34
    Original Akatsuki Member Dragonfly X's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    fail again that's not what i implied, i meant my views are based off what is observed meaning the complexity of the earth on a whole. your mind is so shallow to the point you can't even properly interpret a post.

    @introvert in the process of replying to your post
    Yes, I am shallow because I have read the bible, Quran, and read up on both Existentialism and Nihilism... So because things are complex you automatically assume there is a bigger meaning. Yes, things are complicated, and things happen to make it seem amazing. But then again, we are pretty uncomplicated, if we bleed, we die. If we are ignorant, we remain ignorant unless we do something about it. Take the universe, the big bang, and all the planets forming. Then think, humans, and you will realize, we aren't that special.
    And the fact that if we didn't have cognitive thought, god wouldn't exist for us. We would be more worried about basic survival instincts than wondering "Does Existence come before Essence" or is it the other way around? The reasons humans believe in a higher power is because we want to matter. No one wants to think "Hey, I will live my life, but it will matter to no one, and nothing will change after I die."
    Religion is the opiate to the masses, you want to believe that in this insignificant planet, that an ultimate, omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being existed a priori to our creation just for the sole fact of creating the world, creating us, and then sitting back and governing over us, deciding what is right, wrong, and morally correct?
    If people didn't die, I doubt there would be such a huge deal over religion. There is nothing to fear, nothing in the unknown, we live, and that is it. There is no reason to search for a higher meaning. Why ponder over the fact that we are alive when that is the norm.
    In fact, I struggle to believe that even if some being like that existed, if he would be interested in us anyway. He is all-powerful, yet he wants to play the puppet master and connect the strings to our lives? Our tiny, insignificant, tiny bit of carbon filled being. And that he made us in his image, his image being predominantly male, white, and smart. Which, oh wait, not check, not check, and unfortunately, not all are smart, so not check again.
    So before you go and say I am shallow, perhaps you should explore what you are really believing in, and then question "Am I right?" Am I absolutely sure, that out of millions upon millions, I picked the right choice, if there is even a choice at all..
    And when you can't answer honestly. Then you will perhaps see where we are coming from. Why atheism is what it is. We see through eyes unclouded by what we are told by a book what should be good, and what should be bad. We don't let someone else tell us how we should live, and how to live without angering something that we cannot begin to perceive.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: religion vs science

    sorry if I haven't replied to anybody, but my computers keeps messing up and I can only see parts of the page, it's really annoying. and at such an important time

    the bible say to watch for these signs: people claiming to be Jesus, nation rising against nation, God told the jews that he will drive them out their country and that will again reunite them, and that none will be able to truly take them from his hand, and nobody will be able to tell season from seaon. and much more...

    people are claiming to be Jesus

    this nation thing haven't exatcly happened yet, but it may come soon

    we all know that hitler slaughtered millions of jews, it's the only time in WORLD HISTORY that so many people of a nation was killed but still remained a nation
    hitler just played the role he was suppose to

    and now scientist talks about "global warming" and that changes in temperature will eventually come, lol, give me a break

    anyway. I hope that people will see before it's too late. He will come like a thief in the night, and there will truly be no joking matter
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: religion vs science

    and also @introvertedkitten there's a difference between following someone else's rules and following God's, who consider lusting after a female adultery.

    we don't follow try to all these rules because we want to be something important. *sigh* what's funny is that you are alive typing to me right now denying God's existence, and yet he is the one keeping that fragile little heart in your chest beeping right now, the level of God's love always amazes me
     
         

  12. #37
    NB's Shameless Flirt IntrovertedKittenNinja's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    and also @introvertedkitten there's a difference between following someone else's rules and following God's, who consider lusting after a female adultery.

    we don't follow try to all these rules because we want to be something important. *sigh* what's funny is that you are alive typing to me right now denying God's existence, and yet he is the one keeping that fragile little heart in your chest beeping right now, the level of God's love always amazes me
    Uhhhhhh.

    Really, this is the exact reason why threads that juxtaposition religion and science against each other are always ill-advised.

    You can't argue with religious people like yourself because you all use circular-reasoning to argue.

    God exists because he exists. Or God's rules are the binding law of the universe because God made them.

    For a logical debate that reaches a conclusion to take place, the two debating parties must agree on a set of rules upon which to base their logic. Because this thread spurs on the argument of the existence of a God versus non-existence, and the argument FOR the existence of God is based on the rule that God exists, a debate like this is pointless.

    I can lecture you on how my heart beats because of all kinds of biological mechanisms that evolution over time and such created, but if all you're going to say is, "Wrong, God made your heart.", then it's like arguing that oranges are sour to someone who believes apples are sweet.
     
         

  13. #38
    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post

    It's not far-fetched at all. You said it yourself, over millions of years, these organisms changed. You go out of your way to point out Microevolution is different than Macroevolution, a sentiment you revealed you believe in when you said, "...then over a extended period of time micro/cellular organism evolved into complex organism, scientist today call this process macro-evolution (that's right macro not micro)" however what you need to realize is Macroevolution is the accumulation of microevolutions over time.

    What you need to learn about evolution is that it is not like Pokemon-- animals do not start out as one thing and miraculously pop into another. Small changes in genotype (that is, the genes) and phenotype (as in, physical attributes and traits like legs, eyes, etc.) ACCUMULATE over millions of years and eventually speciation occurs. Sometimes these changes can occur rapidly, or slowly, as stated in the Punctuated Equillibrium theory of evolution.
    sorry i made it sounded like pokemon but thats not what i intended, my gentle friend time by itself cannot dramatically change the geno and pheno type make up organism like scientist implied it did this reasoning has never ever been proven, my friend your point here is based on the "Equillibrium theory" keyword theory means not proven these are all assumptions, thus they are not fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    You're right! A fish cannot miraculously turn into a rabbit by mere chance. In fact, Evolution agrees with you. An animal doesn't randomly turn into another animal. Because of Natural Selection, traits that are favorable in an organism allow it to survive and pass on it's genes to it's offspring. Then that offspring's favorable traits allow IT to survive and pass on IT's genes to IT's offspring-- as a result, miniscule changes occur from generation to generation-- and these changes accumulate over time and cause it to speciate from its ancestors. So, to counter your arguement, No, species don't just randomly change by chance (with the exception of random genetic mutations) they change because they have favorable traits that are passed down to it's offspring and so on and so forth.
    ok this was not my initial point my friend, but i will still respond,

    minuscule changes occurs (key word minuscule) , however nothing to degree that would transform scales into hairs, or a reptile into a mammal, Darwin claim that the reptile-to-mammal evolution is well documented. But for reptiles to evolve into mammals at least some of these transformations must have happened: Scales had to have mutated into hair, Breasts had to have evolved from nothing!, externally laid eggs had to evolve into soft-shelled eggs that were nourished by an umbilical cord and placenta in a womb ! leading skeptist has proven the possibly of that happening my chance/natural selection is 1/1000000000000.

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post

    Well, how is, Scientifically, (since we're talking about Science) a sentient God creating everything any more plausible? Prove that with science, since you're disproving science with science. =]
    no its not entirely plausible, however a car creating itself is more plausible right?


    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Again, you misunderstand Evolution. You're assuming animals randomly turn into other things for no reason. You need to study Natural Selection, which drives Evolution.
    i did not misunderstood evolution thats why i stated "over millions of years" countless times regarding this in my initial post.


    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Yes, this is just by chance! And it's not exactly a rarity in the universe. Hundreds of planets have been found in the so called "Goldilocks Zone" which is the perfect distance from its sun to harbor life.

    Also, think about it this way-- even if we are a cosmic rarity, the fact that we exist and comprehend that we exist is the only reason we recognize we're a rarity. Otherwise, if we didn't exist, we wouldn't know any better.
    all you touched on was distance from the sun, what about the complexity of planet earth on a whole? yes there are other planets with suitable temperature to harbour life but do they host any complex life no? why because temperature is just one of the many factors that influenced life.

    my friend your reasoning is fail imo, evolution is not by mere chance, The leading mathematicians in the century! met with some evolutionary biologists and confronted them with the fact that according to mathematical statistics, the probabilities of a cell or a protein molecule coming into existence were nil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. They even constructed a model of a large computer and tried to figure out the possibilities of a cell ever happening The result was zero possibility. this was at Wistar instute.
     
         
    Last edited by ackeem1992; 10-30-2011 at 02:27 AM.

  14. #39
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    Yes, I am shallow because I have read the bible, Quran, and read up on both Existentialism and Nihilism... So because things are complex you automatically assume there is a bigger meaning. Yes, things are complicated, and things happen to make it seem amazing. But then again, we are pretty uncomplicated, if we bleed, we die. If we are ignorant, we remain ignorant unless we do something about it. Take the universe, the big bang, and all the planets forming. Then think, humans, and you will realize, we aren't that special.
    And the fact that if we didn't have cognitive thought, god wouldn't exist for us. We would be more worried about basic survival instincts than wondering "Does Existence come before Essence" or is it the other way around? The reasons humans believe in a higher power is because we want to matter. No one wants to think "Hey, I will live my life, but it will matter to no one, and nothing will change after I die."
    Religion is the opiate to the masses, you want to believe that in this insignificant planet, that an ultimate, omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being existed a priori to our creation just for the sole fact of creating the world, creating us, and then sitting back and governing over us, deciding what is right, wrong, and morally correct?
    If people didn't die, I doubt there would be such a huge deal over religion. There is nothing to fear, nothing in the unknown, we live, and that is it. There is no reason to search for a higher meaning. Why ponder over the fact that we are alive when that is the norm.
    In fact, I struggle to believe that even if some being like that existed, if he would be interested in us anyway. He is all-powerful, yet he wants to play the puppet master and connect the strings to our lives? Our tiny, insignificant, tiny bit of carbon filled being. And that he made us in his image, his image being predominantly male, white, and smart. Which, oh wait, not check, not check, and unfortunately, not all are smart, so not check again.
    So before you go and say I am shallow, perhaps you should explore what you are really believing in, and then question "Am I right?" Am I absolutely sure, that out of millions upon millions, I picked the right choice, if there is even a choice at all..
    And when you can't answer honestly. Then you will perhaps see where we are coming from. Why atheism is what it is. We see through eyes unclouded by what we are told by a book what should be good, and what should be bad. We don't let someone else tell us how we should live, and how to live without angering something that we cannot begin to perceive.
    the sad thing is you only read the bible, and you probably never went past that. and also we don't search for higher meaning, it is right before us, it is science that went searching for a meaning other than whats truly is, and that's GOD!! a lot of people went chasing after science
     
         

  15. #40
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Uhhhhhh.

    Really, this is the exact reason why threads that juxtaposition religion and science against each other are always ill-advised.

    You can't argue with religious people like yourself because you all use circular-reasoning to argue.

    God exists because he exists. Or God's rules are the binding law of the universe because God made them.

    For a logical debate that reaches a conclusion to take place, the two debating parties must agree on a set of rules upon which to base their logic. Because this thread spurs on the argument of the existence of a God versus non-existence, and the argument FOR the existence of God is based on the rule that God exists, a debate like this is pointless.

    I can lecture you on how my heart beats because of all kinds of biological mechanisms that evolution over time and such created, but if all you're going to say is, "Wrong, God made your heart.", then it's like arguing that oranges are sour to someone who believes apples are sweet.
    you obviously didn't understand my point

    I'm saying it's not beneficial for us to believe in God because we want to be something more. that's the point I was making. I really don't know where you got all that other stuff
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    sorry i made it sounded like pokemon but thats not what i intended, my gentle friend time by itself cannot dramatically change the geno and pheno type make up organism like scientist implied it did this reasoning has never ever been proven, my friend your point here is based on the "Equillibrium theory" keyword theory means not proven these are all assumptions, thus they are not fact.

    ok this was not my initial point my friend, but i will still respond,

    minuscule changes occurs (key word minuscule) , however nothing to degree that would transform scales into hairs, or a reptile into a mammal, Darwin claim that the reptile-to-mammal evolution is well documented. But for reptiles to evolve into mammals at least some of these transformations must have happened: Scales had to have mutated into hair, Breasts had to have evolved from nothing!, externally laid eggs had to evolve into soft-shelled eggs that were nourished by an umbilical cord and placenta in a womb ! leading skeptist has proven the possibly of that happening my chance/natural selection is 1/1000000000000.
    Nothing I said nor nothing in the theory of evolution states that time by itself changes an organism into another species. And yes, evolution HAS been observed, which is a common misconception. Since established science can word things woefully better than I, as a lowly college student ever could, I'll refer you to the same website you probably never even looked at to see if any of your concerns about Evolution would be addressed.

    "Biologists define evolution as a change in the gene pool of a population over time. One example is insects developing a resistance to pesticides over the period of a few years. Even most Creationists recognize that evolution at this level is a fact. What they don't appreciate is that this rate of evolution is all that is required to produce the diversity of all living things from a common ancestor.

    The origin of new species by evolution has also been observed, both in the laboratory and in the wild. See, for example, (Weinberg, J.R., V.R. Starczak, and D. Jorg, 1992, "Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory." Evolution 46: 1214-1220). The "Observed Instances of Speciation" FAQ in the talk.origins archives gives several additional examples.

    Even without these direct observations, it would be wrong to say that evolution hasn't been observed.
    Evidence isn't limited to seeing something happen before your eyes. Evolution makes predictions about what we would expect to see in the fossil record, comparative anatomy, genetic sequences, geographical distribution of species, etc., and these predictions have been verified many times over. The number of observations supporting evolution is overwhelming.

    What hasn't been observed is one animal abruptly changing into a radically different one, such as a frog changing into a cow. This is not a problem for evolution because evolution doesn't propose occurrences even remotely like that. In fact, if we ever observed a frog turn into a cow, it would be very strong evidence against evolution. "

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    no its not entirely plausible, however a car creating itself is more plausible right?
    I don't understand your reasoning here. Put yourself in my shoes here. You're using science (albeit in a manner highly misinformed) to dispute Evolution, however you can't use science to prove the existence of God. Now, you would have an opening if I was disproving the existence of God with science, but I am not. I'm just pointing out your misconceptions about science and evolution. What I mean is, there is no scientific evidence to back up the existence of God, but there is overwhelming evidence to back up the theory of evolution.

    Also, note that "Theory" isn't just a "guess". A Theory is more likened to, a foregone conclusion. A "guess" that is 99% accurate because it has been proven and reproven by countless experiments and backed up by endless amounts of factual, physical, and empirical data.

    Also, your sources of evolution are outdated. You shouldn't really quote Darwin, as the Theory Of Evolution has progressed quite a bit over the last couple hundred years. Hard to imagine I know!


    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    i did not misunderstood evolution thats why i stated "over millions of years" countless times regarding this in my initial post.

    Quote Originally Posted by ackeem1992 View Post
    all you touched on was distance from the sun, what about the complexity of planet earth on a whole? yes there are other planets with suitable temperature to harbour life but do they host any complex life no? why because temperature is just one of the many factors that influenced life.

    my friend your reasoning is fail imo, evolution is not by mere chance, The leading mathematicians in the century! met with some evolutionary biologists and confronted them with the fact that according to mathematical statistics, the probabilities of a cell or a protein molecule coming into existence were nil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. They even constructed a model of a large computer and tried to figure out the possibilities of a cell ever happening The result was zero possibility. this was at Wistar instute.
    My explanation about the distance of the sun is by extention the explanation of the complexity of life. I already told you-- if we are indeed a cosmic accident, the only reason why we think so is because we have the cognition to recognize this.

    If we didn't exist, then we wouldn't be a cosmic "rarity" and wouldn't acknowledge this.

    Also, link me the website or give me the title of the book where you found this information.
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    you obviously didn't understand my point

    I'm saying it's not beneficial for us to believe in God because we want to be something more. that's the point I was making. I really don't know where you got all that other stuff
    Okay, so let's say, I just totally misread your post and spat out a bunch of other random things related to the topic.

    What do you have to say about that?
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Okay, so let's say, I just totally misread your post and spat out a bunch of other random things related to the topic.

    What do you have to say about that?
    huh? you mean to all the stuff about it's pointless to argue because we say God is real? I don't know :shrug:

    but this haven't been your typical argument, I gave good reasoning like the car example, and the complexity of the human body. and you said, we only exist like this because it's the only way we COULD

    and also, I wonder what's the possibility of a man (Jesus) who wasn't known by the entire world at the time saying with confidence that people will claim that they are him, and years later there are many doing so
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    huh? you mean to all the stuff about it's pointless to argue because we say God is real? I don't know :shrug:

    but this haven't been your typical argument, I gave good reasoning like the car example, and the complexity of the human body. and you said, we only exist like this because it's the only way we COULD

    and also, I wonder what's the possibility of a man (Jesus) who wasn't known by the entire world at the time saying with confidence that people will claim that they are him, and years later there are many doing so
    Yeah I didn't get the car thing... It's a man made object. The human body is not. We don't have five hearts and glowing eyeballs because we never needed that crap in the wild. lol. That's how Evolution works. We adapt and become a certain way because it's the most efficient way of survival.

    Well, about Jesus predicting stuff. It probably helps that he has a religion based on him and what he predicted. Self fulfilling prophecy.
     
         

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    overcome hatred with love ackeem1992's Avatar
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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    Yes, I am shallow because I have read the bible, Quran, and read up on both Existentialism and Nihilism... So because things are complex you automatically assume there is a bigger meaning. Yes, things are complicated, and things happen to make it seem amazing. But then again,we are pretty uncomplicated, if we bleed, we die.
    If we are ignorant, we remain ignorant unless we do something about it. Take the universe, the big bang, and all the planets forming. Then think, humans, and you will realize, we aren't that special.
    that is a very bold statement, however your reasoning here is still pretty shallow if we bleed we die, and your point regarding ignorance. so you basically brand us as uncomplicated (because of death and emotions). our mind and the human body are perhaps the most complicated system in this universe. did you do any biochem or psychology courses in college, for it would be very hard for you to have this same reasoning if you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly X View Post
    And the fact that if we didn't have cognitive thought, god wouldn't exist for us. We would be more worried about basic survival instincts than wondering "Does Existence come before Essence" or is it the other way around? The reasons humans believe in a higher power is because we want to matter. No one wants to think "Hey, I will live my life, but it will matter to no one, and nothing will change after I die."
    Religion is the opiate to the masses, you want to believe that in this insignificant planet, that an ultimate, omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent being existed a priori to our creation just for the sole fact of creating the world, creating us, and then sitting back and governing over us, deciding what is right, wrong, and morally correct?
    If people didn't die, I doubt there would be such a huge deal over religion. There is nothing to fear, nothing in the unknown, we live, and that is it. There is no reason to search for a higher meaning. Why ponder over the fact that we are alive when that is the norm.
    In fact, I struggle to believe that even if some being like that existed, if he would be interested in us anyway. He is all-powerful, yet he wants to play the puppet master and connect the strings to our lives? Our tiny, insignificant, tiny bit of carbon filled being. And that he made us in his image, his image being predominantly male, white, and smart. Which, oh wait, not check, not check, and unfortunately, not all are smart, so not check again.
    So before you go and say I am shallow, perhaps you should explore what you are really believing in, and then question "Am I right?" Am I absolutely sure, that out of millions upon millions, I picked the right choice, if there is even a choice at all..
    And when you can't answer honestly. Then you will perhaps see where we are coming from. Why atheism is what it is. We see through eyes unclouded by what we are told by a book what should be good, and what should be bad. We don't let someone else tell us how we should live, and how to live without angering something that we cannot begin to perceive.
    our going off topic my friend, i was simply trying to explain that evolution as we know it is false, and could not happen by mere time and chance without a supreme intervention. i wasn't talking about the religious aspects regarding the Governance of a malevolent or benevolent God over us.

    thats why i said i'm not shoving Christianity or Hinduism down anyone's throat.
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    you shouldnt call this thread religion vs science, GOD created what humans call "science".

    so there is no fight, these battle threads are pointless, theres a way to create these threads without bringing heat for battle.

    but i agree of what you said, Now it just so happen that earth is at an specific distance from the sun, which enables it to harbor life, is this just by chance?, the ozone layer is a sheet over the earth that blocks out the ultra violet rays from the sun, did that just magically appeared there just by chance?, the moon is at a specific distance from the earth, that allows the oceans to form proper waves, specific/proper amount of CO2, O2, hydrogen etc exist in our atmosphere to maintain suitable weather conditions to harbor life.

    i didnt read it all, because it wasnt needed, but i can tell your a believer ^_^ but you shouldnt name this thread science vs religion, this will be an epic fail just upon the title
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by uchiha paulsama View Post
    you shouldnt call this thread religion vs science, GOD created what humans call "science".

    so there is no fight, these battle threads are pointless, theres a way to create these threads without bringing heat for battle.

    but i agree of what you said, Now it just so happen that earth is at an specific distance from the sun, which enables it to harbor life, is this just by chance?, the ozone layer is a sheet over the earth that blocks out the ultra violet rays from the sun, did that just magically appeared there just by chance?, the moon is at a specific distance from the earth, that allows the oceans to form proper waves, specific/proper amount of CO2, O2, hydrogen etc exist in our atmosphere to maintain suitable weather conditions to harbor life.

    i didnt read it all, because it wasnt needed, but i can tell your a believer ^_^ but you shouldnt name this thread science vs religion, this will be an epic fail just upon the title
    Haha this reminds me of Bill O' Reily. "Explain the tides-- you can't!"

    The layer of gasses that create the atmosphere and protect us from the sun are by-products of organic mechanisms like photosynthesis.

    Also, it can be argued that Humans created what you call "God".
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    @introvertedkitten and to all atheist, let's do a little challenge. Now I can't go into being an atheist because it would mean abandoning God whom I love. but if you atheist don't believe on God or any higher being at all then getting to know God a little don't really have any consequences, how about you read the bible here and there but also at least try to understand God, try to connect God and the things in the bible with your everyday life and also the current events that are going on around you. what do you say?

    if there is no God, then there's nothing to fear. the only fear would be if you think you'd actually find him. believe me, here's there waiting for you.
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by yama View Post
    @introvertedkitten and to all atheist, let's do a little challenge. Now I can't go into being an atheist because it would mean abandoning God whom I love. but if you atheist don't believe on God or any higher being at all then getting to know God a little don't really have any consequences, how about you read the bible here and there but also at least try to understand God, try to connect God and the things in the bible with your everyday life and also the current events that are going on around you. what do you say?

    if there is no God, then there's nothing to fear. the only fear would be if you think you'd actually find him. believe me, here's there waiting for you.
    I was raised Catholic all my life, and still go to church every now and then with family and friends. Mainly just to be tolerant of their beliefs.

    I didn't just become Agnostic because I thought it was hip. I did it because I just can't reconcile my doubts. I was lying to myself.

    So I know what it's like from your perspective. But like you said, you don't know what it's like from mine.

    I guarantee most Atheists and Agnostics you'll meet if not all, started out worshiping a religion. It's because they know about their respective religion that they find faults with it that they can't reconcile, and become Atheist or Agnostic. They just don't do it out of nowhere.
     
         

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    Re: religion vs science

    Quote Originally Posted by IntrovertedKittenNinja View Post
    Haha this reminds me of Bill O' Reily. "Explain the tides-- you can't!"

    The layer of gasses that create the atmosphere and protect us from the sun are by-products of organic mechanisms like photosynthesis.

    Also, it can be argued that Humans created what you call "God".

    and who do you think make that photosynthesis process... it's so perfect to be an accident...


    HUMANS CREATED WHAT YOU CALL "GOD"

    be careful about that... CHRISTIANS or any form of deities believe in what they call god because there are evidences that was being shown to them... just like how you and other people believe in science because of evidences that are being shown to you...

    some can say that "YOU believe in him? why have you seen him?" and yes that would be an epic fail in a believers part since we cannot say we did... but i can say the same with those who EAGERLY believe in science.. they believe in evolution even if SCIENCE does not YET prove it... "It's still a theory.. So what now? RELIGION, DEITIES and SCIENCES give us choices to where we will decide to believe..

    but at the end of the day...RELIGION cannot prove all their beliefs to be true and so is SCIENCE...


    we can only speculate and CHOOSE where to stand and LIVE by it...
     
         
    Last edited by uzumakikenshin; 10-30-2011 at 03:54 AM.

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