View Poll Results: Luffy can take down an Admiral?

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  • No way, he will be defeated for sure!

    14 29.17%
  • Yes he can.

    13 27.08%
  • No he can't but Admiral will have a really tough time.

    21 43.75%
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  1. #101
    Senior Member sexyprep1's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    ok i think we all agree that luffy isntt at that lvl yet so lets just leave it at that
     
         

  2. #102
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by sexyprep1 View Post
    ok i think we all agree that luffy isntt at that lvl yet so lets just leave it at that
    I don't agree It was a stunning feet from him to defeat Rob Lucci, Crocodile, Enel and Moria who were all stronger than him. It won't be suprising if he defeats an admiral now, since there are plenty of characters who are stronger than Admirals.

    Mostly, it's plot-shield that protects Luffy. If he ever meets an Admiral now, I don't see him losing because that would make his training with Rayleigh useless/meaningless. He was preparing to battle them. Not some failure supernovas, not yonko's, not even BlackBeard and his crew but Admirals. Especially Akainu.

    What does it take to defeat an admiral?

    He couldn't beat any Logia DF opponent(w/o abusing their weakness) because they are intangible and can regenerate after any physical attack.
    Now that he has Haki what is keeping him from dealing damage to Logia type DF opponents? One hit won't do anything but all-out Luffy could defeat them.

    More importantly, what can Akainu do to defeat Luffy? Not only does Luffy has Haki but he's also one of the fastest fighters in the series with his Gear2.
     
         

  3. #103
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    I don't agree It was a stunning feet from him to defeat Rob Lucci, Crocodile, Enel and Moria who were all stronger than him. It won't be suprising if he defeats an admiral now, since there are plenty of characters who are stronger than Admirals.

    Mostly, it's plot-shield that protects Luffy. If he ever meets an Admiral now, I don't see him losing because that would make his training with Rayleigh useless/meaningless. He was preparing to battle them. Not some failure supernovas, not yonko's, not even BlackBeard and his crew but Admirals. Especially Akainu.

    What does it take to defeat an admiral?
    There AREN'T plenty of characters stronger than the Admirals. If there were plenty then the WG shouldn't exist in the first place.

    It's the plot shield, the PIS, and the CIS that protects Luffy, but this isn't Naruto. After he did the Rayleigh training it's pretty much obvious that the first islands of the NW would be a cakewalk. However, you don't expect Luffy to beat everyone with a Rikudo Mode now don't you? Did Zoro beat Mihawk because he trained under him? That's an illogical piece of info and you should feel bad for using Naruto logic in One Piece.

    Complete mastery of Rokushiki, Haki, and superior physical attributes.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    He couldn't beat any Logia DF opponent(w/o abusing their weakness) because they are intangible and can regenerate after any physical attack.

    Now that he has Haki what is keeping him from dealing damage to Logia type DF opponents? One hit won't do anything but all-out Luffy could defeat them.

    More importantly, what can Akainu do to defeat Luffy? Not only does Luffy has Haki but he's also one of the fastest fighters in the series with his Gear2.
    . Stop basing off the war. The logias didn't bother avoiding his attacks since there wasn't any need to. They knew that the guy didn't know how to use Haki. And I don't think they're underestimating him either. Look at WB. He's leagues better than Luffy, and he can defeat the Admirals one on one, but the Admirals can tank his attacks too. I don't think Luffy is on that level yet.

    Luffy is NOT one of the fastest fighters in the series. If that's so then how come Smoker keeps up with G2? Jinbe? Garp? Kuma? I know Zoro can keep up with G2 since he reacted to Kuma's attacks, and Kuma is just about one of the fastest in the series. Just because someone doesn't have a speed technique means he's automatically slow.
     
         

  4. #104
    Senior Member Mugiwara's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Luffy wasn't really trying to beat the Vice Admirals in the war, he was just trying to get past them. They ganged up against Luffy too. AND Luffy was at his limit at the time of their encounter. Also Macro was just caught off guard by Onigumo, because he was worried about Whitebeard and rushing to help him.

    You can hardly call any of those encounters a "fight".
    In a real combat, pre-time skip Luffy would be able to beat most of Vice-Admirals in one on one combat.
    Post-time skip Luffy: Theres no doubt he would be able to defeat the Vice-Admirals.
    Yes, they are powerful, and 3rd highest ranked in the Marine, but theres a big gap between the power of a Vice Admiral and Admiral.

    There are no one in the current Vice Admirals that has any big advantage against Luffy. Like when Luffy went up against Aokiji, Aokiji won that fight by a mile. Luffy had not on Aokiji. Aokiji is Logia, Luffy is Paramecia, Aokiji had haki, Luffy didn't. Ice beats Rubber. Haki beats non haki.

    There are none of the Vice Admirals that have a clear advantage against Luffy. You cannot forget that he is a genius when it comes to fighting.
     
         

  5. #105
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    There AREN'T plenty of characters stronger than the Admirals. If there were plenty then the WG shouldn't exist in the first place.
    Yonko's > admirals. Even their top crew members can fight them (Ben Beckman just one of the examples).

    Marines and Akainu shit their pants when Shanks arrived.

    Without Yonko, there's also Blackbeard who's going to be a major power in future. Also, Chief-in-command Kong must be extremely strong, since he was fleet admiral in past. Those Gorosei guys with their scars and huge, buffed bodies don't look liked push-overs either.

    There's also opponents like Magellan and Ivankov, who where unheard in manga till now, so there's a high chance someone unknown to us will come up in the story, possibly from government (Vegapunk/one of his creations).

    If super-novas like Law and Kidd learns and masters Haki, they'll be stronger than admirals, mostly because of plot (race for the PK title).


    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    It's the plot shield, the PIS, and the CIS that protects Luffy, but this isn't Naruto. After he did the Rayleigh training it's pretty much obvious that the first islands of the NW would be a cakewalk. However, you don't expect Luffy to beat everyone with a Rikudo Mode now don't you? Did Zoro beat Mihawk because he trained under him? That's an illogical piece of info and you should feel bad for using Naruto logic in One Piece.
    I feel like he can beat them, he'll need a power up for stronger enemies (which I enlisted). Otherwise there's going to be way to many power-ups.

    Admiral<Yonko<Dragon/perfect Blackbeard<Gorosei/final boss fight.

    That's how many tiers there are higher than Luffy is atm. Every 3rd arc he would need a power-up to battle new opponents. You understand where I am going?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    Complete mastery of Rokushiki, Haki, and superior physical attributes.
    We haven't seen him go all-out but knocking out 50,000 men, dodging and one shotting Pacifistas like they are fodder is pretty good indicator of him mastering Haki and having superior physical attributes, don't you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    . Stop basing off the war. The logias didn't bother avoiding his attacks since there wasn't any need to. They knew that the guy didn't know how to use Haki. And I don't think they're underestimating him either. Look at WB. He's leagues better than Luffy, and he can defeat the Admirals one on one, but the Admirals can tank his attacks too. I don't think Luffy is on that level yet.
    WhiteBeard wasn't going all out until he went into rage. Result = strongest admiral - Akainu crawling away like a cockroach. That's not tanking, that's absolute defeat.

    Anyway, I don't exepct Luffy to be murdering admirals like Whitebeard. It's going to be a long, tiresome battle if they fight and Luffy will go all out like in his fight with Rob Lucci. Might be a team work (SH crew vs Oz/Moria).

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    Luffy is NOT one of the fastest fighters in the series. If that's so then how come Smoker keeps up with G2? Jinbe? Garp? Kuma? I know Zoro can keep up with G2 since he reacted to Kuma's attacks, and Kuma is just about one of the fastest in the series. Just because someone doesn't have a speed technique means he's automatically slow.
    Wasn't it said that all strongest people in the world can use Haki? If you can use it than speed is not a problem versus someone who is not using it. Luffy was already half-dead when he entered war. Everyone should be ashamed of not being able to stop Luffy at his state.

    Current Luffy has upped all of his stats and abilities. His speed now is even better. There's also a slight chance of new Gear or something even better up in Luffy's sleeve. Tho, it might be too soon for that since there's stronger tiers he has to fight in future.
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 12-12-2011 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #106
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Yonko's > admirals. Even their top crew members can fight them (Ben Beckman just one of the examples).

    Marines and Akainu shit their pants when Shanks arrived.

    Without Yonko, there's also Blackbeard who's going to be a major power in future. Also, Chief-in-command Kong must be extremely strong, since he was fleet admiral in past. Those Gorosei guys with their scars and huge, buffed bodies don't look liked push-overs either.

    There's also opponents like Magellan and Ivankov, who where unheard in manga till now, so there's a high chance someone unknown to us will come up in the story, possibly from government (Vegapunk/one of his creations).

    If super-novas like Law and Kidd learns and masters Haki, they'll be stronger than admirals, mostly because of plot (race for the PK title).
    This is what I was afraid of. Even Mugi over there is starting to overrate Haki like it was some kind of gamebreaker. Remember when Naruto fans went LOLOLOL Sharingan over every battle related thread? The same thing is happening here, and it's really sad.

    Individual Yonko > Admiral. But to say Yonko crew > WG? I won't stand for that. The WG is composed of 800 countries plus. Besides, they only finished the war. They didn't "shit their pants" at Shanks, they were surprised since they never expected to fight another battle in the first place. How would you feel if your country just finished fighting China IRL, only to find out after you defeated them in a hard battle you were gonna fight North Korea right after?

    Magellan and Ivankov aren't opponents. They're one-time arc villains/allies, and they'll only appear when it's necessary for them to appear. Besides, I believe Vegapunk isn't a fighter.

    If Kidd and Law master Haki they'll be more or less on Luffy's level. They can't master the thing and be stronger than the 3 best fighters the Marines have in just 2 years. Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu have been there ever since Roger died; you can't expect them to lose to greenhorns with newfound powers now don't you? Like I said don't compare this to Naruto, where the old legends are thrown away like trash in favor of the new. This isn't the theme in One Piece.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    I feel like he can beat them, he'll need a power up for stronger enemies (which I enlisted). Otherwise there's going to be way to many power-ups.

    Admiral<Yonko<Dragon/perfect Blackbeard<Gorosei/final boss fight.

    That's how many tiers there are higher than Luffy is atm. Every 3rd arc he would need a power-up to battle new opponents. You understand where I am going?
    I would understand where you are going if Kishi, Mashima, or Kubo was writing OP. But Oda is writing this, and he's not the guy who pulls perma powerups every 3rd arc. Maybe a new move, maybe a new ally, but never a new powerup unless its needed. When was G2 first used? Yeah.

    You're underestimating the Admirals too much. Like I said, here in OP it doesn't mean you've been shown earlier you're a weaker character. Crocodile was shown earlier, does that mean he's weaker than Rob Lucci? Unless Lucci has developed Busoshoku I don't think he can touch Croc, and even if he did, I think Croc would still beat him. Hello Barchan.

    Hmm, how do I explain this? Say we put Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy, and Natsu (even though he doesn't deserve this) in an RPG played by their respective authors. Naruto would be the guy who gets that uber weapon with +10000 stats at the start of the game, but wouldn't know how to use it, so he needs someone who has already used it or has some experience wielding one. Ichigo would be the guy who gets the uber weapon, knows how to use it, but only unleashes big attacks and doesn't weaken his opponent first. Natsu would be the guy collecting uber weapons around the game, but every time he uses one it breaks since he overuses it. Luffy would be the guy who trains at first to be on an equal level with his weapon. That's why I say he doesn't need powerups, since his base stats are equal to his enemies in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    We haven't seen him go all-out but knocking out 50,000 men, dodging and one shotting Pacifistas like they are fodder is pretty good indicator of him mastering Haki and having superior physical attributes, don't you think?
    Because Fishmen fodder and Pacifistas are equal to Admirals right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    WhiteBeard wasn't going all out until he went into rage. Result = strongest admiral - Akainu crawling away like a cockroach. That's not tanking, that's absolute defeat.

    Anyway, I don't exepct Luffy to be murdering admirals like Whitebeard. It's going to be a long, tiresome battle if they fight and Luffy will go all out like in his fight with Rob Lucci. Might be a team work (SH crew vs Oz/Moria).
    Akainu crawling away like a cockroach - lived to see the end of the war and can proudly say he survived a WB quake. That's called tanking. Absolute defeat is when you're too destroyed to do anything, your dreams are smashed, and you can't do anything to repair them.

    It's going to be a long, tiresome battle for Luffy even after he becomes PK.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Wasn't it said that all strongest people in the world can use Haki? If you can use it than speed is not a problem versus someone who is not using it. Luffy was already half-dead when he entered war. Everyone should be ashamed of not being able to stop Luffy at his state.

    Current Luffy has upped all of his stats and abilities. His speed now is even better. There's also a slight chance of new Gear or something even better up in Luffy's sleeve. Tho, it might be too soon for that since there's stronger tiers he has to fight in future.
    Bahaha. No, everyone can use Haki, it's just that they've not realized their potential yet. Luffy has realized his potential, that's why he can knock people out left and right. Oooh, but there's a problem, and Haki is not the answer. Say Usopp and Luffy fought, and Luffy is in G2. They both have equal mastery of Haki. Usopp is gonna get hit all the time even with Kenbunshoku. Why, you ask? It's because he can't keep up, his reaction time is too slow compared to Luffy's. That's why all those top tiers when it comes to fighting, have comparable, equal, or even greater speed that Luffy in G2. Haki is not the answer, Haki is not the gamebreaker.

    Luffy trained in Haki. He didn't train himself physically. The potential and the power was always there, he just needed a supplement for him to use it fully. It's just like Usain Bolt. He can't break the 10 sec barrier if he doesn't take an energy drink. Energy drink = supplement = Haki.
     
         
    Last edited by Boa Hancock; 12-13-2011 at 03:02 AM.

  7. #107
    Lost Child... Hyperion's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    I don't think Luffy can take down an Admiral with what we've seen so far(Fishman Arc only)
     
         

  8. #108
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    This is what I was afraid of. Even Mugi over there is starting to overrate Haki like it was some kind of gamebreaker. Remember when Naruto fans went LOLOLOL Sharingan over every battle related thread? The same thing is happening here, and it's really sad.
    Why not? Look at Garp. He doesn't have any special powers but with Haki he can pwn some of the strongest opponents out there. Just the sheer power of his punches, augumented by Haki, is enough to KO admiral level opponents. Luffy with G2 is not a push-over either. His power and speed is incredible but it wasn't enough to fight some of the top-tier opponents. Now that he has haki, not only he can succesfully dodge from Kumo/Admiral attacks but his punches, powered by Haki, can also deal damage to them. So, yes, Haki is a gamebreaker.


    Individual Yonko > Admiral. But to say Yonko crew > WG? I won't stand for that. The WG is composed of 800 countries plus. Besides, they only finished the war. They didn't "shit their pants" at Shanks, they were surprised since they never expected to fight another battle in the first place. How would you feel if your country just finished fighting China IRL, only to find out after you defeated them in a hard battle you were gonna fight North Korea right after?
    Wrong. Yonko's are way above Admiral level. Shichibukai were established to balance out the powers between Yonko and marines.

    I shouldn't get into this. It's very simple. Both WB and Shanks can take out fodder in a matter of seconds, all there's left is VA's and Admirals, and Yonko's with their crews can take out those by themselves. WG had to establish the Shichibukai system to balance out the powers.

    And yes they did "shit their pants", unstoppable Akainu was stopped by Shanks and all he could do is cry at him for letting Luffy go. Even Kizaru choosed not to risk with one of his men pointing a Haki powered gun at him.

    Oh, and WG is composed of 170+ countries not 800+

    Magellan and Ivankov aren't opponents. They're one-time arc villains/allies, and they'll only appear when it's necessary for them to appear. Besides, I believe Vegapunk isn't a fighter.
    That's not the point. The point was that out of nowhere two people appeared that where stronger than anyone in SH. Same could happen in NW.

    If Kidd and Law master Haki they'll be more or less on Luffy's level. They can't master the thing and be stronger than the 3 best fighters the Marines have in just 2 years. Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu have been there ever since Roger died; you can't expect them to lose to greenhorns with newfound powers now don't you? Like I said don't compare this to Naruto, where the old legends are thrown away like trash in favor of the new. This isn't the theme in One Piece.
    So far mastering Haki is the only power up, besides eating DF, known to us.

    Greenhorns or not but if they all are going to get to Raftel they will have to be Yonko level. Eventually, they will surpass admirals. That's IF they get to Raftel.


    I would understand where you are going if Kishi, Mashima, or Kubo was writing OP. But Oda is writing this, and he's not the guy who pulls perma powerups every 3rd arc. Maybe a new move, maybe a new ally, but never a new powerup unless its needed. When was G2 first used? Yeah.
    You don't understand. I am saying that there are too many tiers above Admiral tier. If he can't even defeat admirals without a power up that means he would need a power up for every 3rd arc. Which is not in Oda's way. That's why Luffy in his current state will somehow manage to defeat Admiral and Yonko tier opponents. Same way he managed to beat Crocodile and Moria.
    He's a rubber man, he can use all three Haki, G2/G3 and all he need's is cunning plan, a bit of luck, strong plot-shield and he can take out anyone.
    Ganbare Luffy! xD

    You're underestimating the Admirals too much. Like I said, here in OP it doesn't mean you've been shown earlier you're a weaker character. Crocodile was shown earlier, does that mean he's weaker than Rob Lucci? Unless Lucci has developed Busoshoku I don't think he can touch Croc, and even if he did, I think Croc would still beat him. Hello Barchan.
    No, I am not. You are giving them too much credit. They are the shit in Grand Line but in the New World there are bigger fish than admirals. You'll come to see it yourself.

    Hmm, how do I explain this? Say we put Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy, and Natsu (even though he doesn't deserve this) in an RPG played by their respective authors. Naruto would be the guy who gets that uber weapon with +10000 stats at the start of the game, but wouldn't know how to use it, so he needs someone who has already used it or has some experience wielding one. Ichigo would be the guy who gets the uber weapon, knows how to use it, but only unleashes big attacks and doesn't weaken his opponent first. Natsu would be the guy collecting uber weapons around the game, but every time he uses one it breaks since he overuses it. Luffy would be the guy who trains at first to be on an equal level with his weapon. That's why I say he doesn't need powerups, since his base stats are equal to his enemies in the first place.
    Uhm, so what are we arguing about? You practicly admitted that Luffy can take out anyone now since his base is strong enough.

    Because Fishmen fodder and Pacifistas are equal to Admirals right?
    That's just an indicator of his power. Taking out 50,000 men (half of marine force at Marinford battle) and murdering Pacifista with a single punch is clear sign that he's a beast now. Pacifistas beams are based on Kizaru's speed of light energy blasts and he evaded them like it was a walk in a park.


    Akainu crawling away like a cockroach - lived to see the end of the war and can proudly say he survived a WB quake. That's called tanking. Absolute defeat is when you're too destroyed to do anything, your dreams are smashed, and you can't do anything to repair them.
    Still cockroach, lol. He can't be proud of anything while crawling away like a cockroach and reappearing only after Whitebeard died. What a coward. He couldn't tank shit that's why he hid himself. None of the people at marinford could tank full power Whitebeard, that's just absurd. That's like comparing Luffy's fight against Bleuno in his base and in G2.


    Bahaha. No, everyone can use Haki, it's just that they've not realized their potential yet. Luffy has realized his potential, that's why he can knock people out left and right.
    I know that everyone can use Haki if they learn to do it. I meant that all of the strongest people know how to use Haki. Atleast something like that was said in the manga. That's how your aforementioned people where able to keep up with Luffy.

    Oooh, but there's a problem, and Haki is not the answer. Say Usopp and Luffy fought, and Luffy is in G2. They both have equal mastery of Haki. Usopp is gonna get hit all the time even with Kenbunshoku. Why, you ask? It's because he can't keep up, his reaction time is too slow compared to Luffy's. That's why all those top tiers when it comes to fighting, have comparable, equal, or even greater speed that Luffy in G2. Haki is not the answer, Haki is not the gamebreaker.
    Luffy was half-dead when he came to Marinford and most of his opponents were either top-tier or using haki (or both). Obviosly, they could keep up with him.

    Luffy trained in Haki. He didn't train himself physically. The potential and the power was always there, he just needed a supplement for him to use it fully. It's just like Usain Bolt. He can't break the 10 sec barrier if he doesn't take an energy drink. Energy drink = supplement = Haki.
    He trained in everything. You can't train Busoshoku Haki just sitting on your ass. Just by training that Haki he upped himself physicly. After Rayleigh left he spent half of a year living in a deserted island with dozens of animals who were stronger than him. It's obvious he has upped his base spending two years in that island.
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 12-13-2011 at 11:47 AM.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Mugiwara's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    This is what I was afraid of. Even Mugi over there is starting to overrate Haki like it was some kind of gamebreaker. Remember when Naruto fans went LOLOLOL Sharingan over every battle related thread? The same thing is happening here, and it's really sad.

    Individual Yonko > Admiral. But to say Yonko crew > WG? I won't stand for that. The WG is composed of 800 countries plus. Besides, they only finished the war. They didn't "shit their pants" at Shanks, they were surprised since they never expected to fight another battle in the first place. How would you feel if your country just finished fighting China IRL, only to find out after you defeated them in a hard battle you were gonna fight North Korea right after?

    Magellan and Ivankov aren't opponents. They're one-time arc villains/allies, and they'll only appear when it's necessary for them to appear. Besides, I believe Vegapunk isn't a fighter.

    If Kidd and Law master Haki they'll be more or less on Luffy's level. They can't master the thing and be stronger than the 3 best fighters the Marines have in just 2 years. Kizaru, Aokiji, and Akainu have been there ever since Roger died; you can't expect them to lose to greenhorns with newfound powers now don't you? Like I said don't compare this to Naruto, where the old legends are thrown away like trash in favor of the new. This isn't the theme in One Piece.



    I would understand where you are going if Kishi, Mashima, or Kubo was writing OP. But Oda is writing this, and he's not the guy who pulls perma powerups every 3rd arc. Maybe a new move, maybe a new ally, but never a new powerup unless its needed. When was G2 first used? Yeah.

    You're underestimating the Admirals too much. Like I said, here in OP it doesn't mean you've been shown earlier you're a weaker character. Crocodile was shown earlier, does that mean he's weaker than Rob Lucci? Unless Lucci has developed Busoshoku I don't think he can touch Croc, and even if he did, I think Croc would still beat him. Hello Barchan.

    Hmm, how do I explain this? Say we put Naruto, Ichigo, Luffy, and Natsu (even though he doesn't deserve this) in an RPG played by their respective authors. Naruto would be the guy who gets that uber weapon with +10000 stats at the start of the game, but wouldn't know how to use it, so he needs someone who has already used it or has some experience wielding one. Ichigo would be the guy who gets the uber weapon, knows how to use it, but only unleashes big attacks and doesn't weaken his opponent first. Natsu would be the guy collecting uber weapons around the game, but every time he uses one it breaks since he overuses it. Luffy would be the guy who trains at first to be on an equal level with his weapon. That's why I say he doesn't need powerups, since his base stats are equal to his enemies in the first place.



    Because Fishmen fodder and Pacifistas are equal to Admirals right?



    Akainu crawling away like a cockroach - lived to see the end of the war and can proudly say he survived a WB quake. That's called tanking. Absolute defeat is when you're too destroyed to do anything, your dreams are smashed, and you can't do anything to repair them.

    It's going to be a long, tiresome battle for Luffy even after he becomes PK.



    Bahaha. No, everyone can use Haki, it's just that they've not realized their potential yet. Luffy has realized his potential, that's why he can knock people out left and right. Oooh, but there's a problem, and Haki is not the answer. Say Usopp and Luffy fought, and Luffy is in G2. They both have equal mastery of Haki. Usopp is gonna get hit all the time even with Kenbunshoku. Why, you ask? It's because he can't keep up, his reaction time is too slow compared to Luffy's. That's why all those top tiers when it comes to fighting, have comparable, equal, or even greater speed that Luffy in G2. Haki is not the answer, Haki is not the gamebreaker.

    Luffy trained in Haki. He didn't train himself physically. The potential and the power was always there, he just needed a supplement for him to use it fully. It's just like Usain Bolt. He can't break the 10 sec barrier if he doesn't take an energy drink. Energy drink = supplement = Haki.
    I'm not overrating Haki, all I'm saying is that Luffy does not have any disadvantage going into a fight against a Vice Admiral. They don't have any noticeable advantage against Luffy, maybe experience, but when has experience stopped Luffy from beating someone?
     
         

  10. #110
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Why not? Look at Garp. He doesn't have any special powers but with Haki he can pwn some of the strongest opponents out there. Just the sheer power of his punches, augumented by Haki, is enough to KO admiral level opponents. Luffy with G2 is not a push-over either. His power and speed is incredible but it wasn't enough to fight some of the top-tier opponents. Now that he has haki, not only he can succesfully dodge from Kumo/Admiral attacks but his punches, powered by Haki, can also deal damage to them. So, yes, Haki is a gamebreaker.
    I don't think you understand what gamebreaker is. A gamebreaker would be Naruto's Kyuubi, Ichigo's absurd reiatsu, Natsu's random powerups, Kenshin's Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu, Simon's spiral power, Sakuragi's astounding growth in connection with his second to none athletic ability, Tsuna's Sky Flames, etc. Those are gamebreakers. If everyone has it then it's not one.

    You're wanking Luffy too much. Just what makes you think his punches, augmented by Haki, can beat the Admirals now? All Busoshoku does is make you able to touch Logias, in addition to being a makeshift shield. Kenbunshoku doesn't automatically make you evade all attacks coming from whichever direction. Like I said, these Admirals have risen through the ranks not by parentage or bloodline; like everyone else, they have risen because of their fighting ability. It's too soon for Luffy to become top tier just because he gained a little supplement.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Wrong. Yonko's are way above Admiral level. Shichibukai were established to balance out the powers between Yonko and marines.
    Ahaha, what? Yonkous are far greater than the Marines, that's why they hired the Shichi? If you listened or read closely, they were 3 separate powers, with the Marines obviously being the strongest of the three. If Yonkous were so all powerful like you say, why haven't they obliterated the damn government with Dragon? Because they don't have the motivation to? man. Actually I wonder. What is it with you people overrating the pirates and not giving the Marines their due credit? It's like you're taking the whole thing personally. .

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    I shouldn't get into this. It's very simple. Both WB and Shanks can take out fodder in a matter of seconds, all there's left is VA's and Admirals, and Yonko's with their crews can take out those by themselves. WG had to establish the Shichibukai system to balance out the powers.

    And yes they did "shit their pants", unstoppable Akainu was stopped by Shanks and all he could do is cry at him for letting Luffy go. Even Kizaru choosed not to risk with one of his men pointing a Haki powered gun at him.

    Oh, and WG is composed of 170+ countries not 800+
    Okay my bad. I confused 800 with 170, since I was posting about the Void Century at that time.

    WB is the Strongest Man, and we don't know what Shanks is capable of. Why are you saying that the fodder, being Captain-level plus, which are more or less equal to the Strawhats except the M3, are gonna be taken out by the Yonkou crews? Most crewmembers are fodder, I bet Usopp now could take on a whole division of WB without the commander.

    You don't understand war, do you. Akainu stopped because he couldn't bear starting another war when they just ended one. Shanks just brought them to their senses. What part of "I'm injured, so I can't fight" don't you get?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    That's not the point. The point was that out of nowhere two people appeared that where stronger than anyone in SH. Same could happen in NW.
    And this will warrant a powerup out of Luffy how? Captain Morgan up to Enel surely didn't warrant powerups, and some people were dumbed down by PIS too.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    So far mastering Haki is the only power up, besides eating DF, known to us.

    Greenhorns or not but if they all are going to get to Raftel they will have to be Yonko level. Eventually, they will surpass admirals. That's IF they get to Raftel.
    It doesn't mean wanking the sh!t out of Haki though. It's just a supplement for pete's sake.

    Wow, being Yonkou-level grants you automatic access to Raftel. I didn't know that, Oda.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    You don't understand. I am saying that there are too many tiers above Admiral tier. If he can't even defeat admirals without a power up that means he would need a power up for every 3rd arc. Which is not in Oda's way. That's why Luffy in his current state will somehow manage to defeat Admiral and Yonko tier opponents. Same way he managed to beat Crocodile and Moria.
    He's a rubber man, he can use all three Haki, G2/G3 and all he need's is cunning plan, a bit of luck, strong plot-shield and he can take out anyone.
    Ganbare Luffy! xD

    No, I am not. You are giving them too much credit. They are the shit in Grand Line but in the New World there are bigger fish than admirals. You'll come to see it yourself.

    Uhm, so what are we arguing about? You practicly admitted that Luffy can take out anyone now since his base is strong enough.
    I made all those examples since yes, his base is now strong enough. To take them out, no way, but to compete with for a time, yes. That's how Oda does things.

    What do you mean giving them too much credit? I'm not the one saying that the Marines' most powerful fighting forces will be beaten by some rookie crew with newfound powerups. Like I said, if they've been in the game for so long it's only a testament to their power.

    If they're nothing in the NW, how come people still shit their pants about the Admirals in the NW?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    That's just an indicator of his power. Taking out 50,000 men (half of marine force at Marinford battle) and murdering Pacifista with a single punch is clear sign that he's a beast now. Pacifistas beams are based on Kizaru's speed of light energy blasts and he evaded them like it was a walk in a park.
    Ah, so you're still hyped on Luffy evading those beams. Based on Kizaru's beams yes, but do you actually think Kizaru does that same attack? It's just a damn generic light beam, not a Yasakani no Magatama. If the Pacifistas were on the same level as the Admirals then heck let's replace the Marines' greatest fighting forces with some mindless robots which can be mass produced and costs the same as a Marine Battleship!

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Still cockroach, lol. He can't be proud of anything while crawling away like a cockroach and reappearing only after Whitebeard died. What a coward. He couldn't tank shit that's why he hid himself. None of the people at marinford could tank full power Whitebeard, that's just absurd. That's like comparing Luffy's fight against Bleuno in his base and in G2.
    That's because, you know, WB is the STRONGEST MAN in the world. Sickly and old, but still the strongest.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    I know that everyone can use Haki if they learn to do it. I meant that all of the strongest people know how to use Haki. Atleast something like that was said in the manga. That's how your aforementioned people where able to keep up with Luffy.
    Oh wow, so does that mean Aisa is top tier? She has Mantra at such a young age! Coby too, he has awakened his Kenbunshoku, does that mean he's PK level now?

    I can't believe you'd wank Haki like that, not taking into account experience and physical stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Luffy was half-dead when he came to Marinford and most of his opponents were either top-tier or using haki (or both). Obviosly, they could keep up with him.
    The only serious people going after him were the fodder and some Marines like Smoker. The really powerful people were busy having their hands full with the commanders and WB himself. Mihawk just attacked Luffy because he was bored and didn't want to get serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    He trained in everything. You can't train Busoshoku Haki just sitting on your ass. Just by training that Haki he upped himself physicly. After Rayleigh left he spent half of a year living in a deserted island with dozens of animals who were stronger than him. It's obvious he has upped his base spending two years in that island.
    You sure he trained in everything? Techniques maybe, in conjunction to Haki, but I fail to see how much he can improve in the strength aspect. It's obvious he's upped his base, but knowing Oda it's just enough to compete with most people in the NW, but not enough to warrant the top tier.
     
         

  11. #111
    Pirate Empress Boa Hancock's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mugiwara View Post
    I'm not overrating Haki, all I'm saying is that Luffy does not have any disadvantage going into a fight against a Vice Admiral. They don't have any noticeable advantage against Luffy, maybe experience, but when has experience stopped Luffy from beating someone?
    "Haki beats non haki."

    I'm having doubts, but I'll believe you for now, since I agree with what you said above.
     
         

  12. #112
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Ahaha, what? Yonkous are far greater than the Marines, that's why they hired the Shichi? If you listened or read closely, they were 3 separate powers, with the Marines obviously being the strongest of the three. If Yonkous were so all powerful like you say, why haven't they obliterated the damn government with Dragon? Because they don't have the motivation to? man. Actually I wonder. What is it with you people overrating the pirates and not giving the Marines their due credit? It's like you're taking the whole thing personally. .
    Herp, derp. Do you even know why Shichibukai were hired by government?
    Why don't they take out government? What would they accomplish by that? Why don't Shanks and WB go after OP? Because they don't care. If there would be a reason to do so, they would have done it. Same goes for Dragon. If he would attack WG, the world would see him as a tyrant. That's not what he is trying to achieve.
     
         

  13. #113
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by EternalMangekyouRinnegan View Post
    Herp, derp. Do you even know why Shichibukai were hired by government?
    Why don't they take out government? What would they accomplish by that? Why don't Shanks and WB go after OP? Because they don't care. If there would be a reason to do so, they would have done it. Same goes for Dragon. If he would attack WG, the world would see him as a tyrant. That's not what he is trying to achieve.
    Yes. They were hired because if they were to face another war like they did with WB, they could easily get some fighting power. It's just like how privateers of the Middle Ages worked.

    What? Dragon is already attacking country after country. You're also pulling on straws here. Yonkous are just a bit superior or equal to the Admirals individually. No way they're stronger, that was only WB.
     
         

  14. #114
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    I quite agree to the fact Haki beats non-haki as said by Mugiwara, but then as Boa said this aint Naruto where a character can just spam techniques and win over easily, it OP it requires time and goes on with respect to what a person is capable of, Luffy wasnt prepared to take Admirals pre-timeskip and still is not though he could defeat all the Vice-Admirals even before time-skip.
    We have to accept the fact that Luffy isn't yet that capable to take down a Admiral one on one and it would requires him time but yeah he has gotten strong and we would see Luffy dominating quite a few more islands like he did in Fishman but all the places wont be that easy, he has a still long way to go also the whole series has a long way to go.
     
         

  15. #115
    Invincible Immortal EternalMangekyouRinnegan's Avatar
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boa Hancock View Post
    Yes. They were hired because if they were to face another war like they did with WB, they could easily get some fighting power. It's just like how privateers of the Middle Ages worked.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v45/c432/7.html

    Marine HQ and the Shichibukai exist to counter balance Yonko's.

    Honestly, do you think Whitebeard with Ace at his side couldn't destroy marines? If he would start making quakes with his full power right from the start, the whole marinford island would sink in 5 minutes or less. Not to mention, that Marines where fighting on their own ground with a huge advantage of location and numbers. Come to think of it, he wouldn't even need to come close to marine HQ. He could just make quakes and wait for huge waves to destroy HQ.

    Yonko > Marines
    Yonko > Shichibukai
    Yonko =/< Marines+Shichibukai

    That's judging by Whitebeard. Not sure of what other Yonko's are capable of but since they are able to stand against WB I guess they all are somewhat even.

    What? Dragon is already attacking country after country. You're also pulling on straws here. Yonkous are just a bit superior or equal to the Admirals individually. No way they're stronger, that was only WB.
    Any country displaying signs of revolution runs the risk of being targeted by the World Government. When Drum Island decided to change their government, their king, Wapol, warned them that such actions carry a risk factor and that the World Government would never allow it.

    He's not attacking country after country, he's liberating them. Mostly the ones that are either enslaved or targeted by WG. That's what RA is doing. Not everyone is happy with WG. But the main goal of course is overthrowing WG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thugg View Post
    We have to accept the fact that Luffy isn't yet that capable to take down a Admiral one on one
    How can you say that if we haven't seen Luffy go all-out or fight admirals? What are you basing your words on?
     
         
    Last edited by EternalMangekyouRinnegan; 12-13-2011 at 03:09 PM.

  16. #116
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Im basing my words on pure logic, when you say he can go all-out you say using Haki?
    Do the Admirals don't have Haki, they must be having a better exprerience using it iam not saying Luffy would be totally outclassed but initially would be defeated, yes its for sure its just like saying Zoro defeating Hawk Eyes just because he trained, Luffy is strong, extremely strong. But there are only 3 Admirals in the Marines and they aren't made Admirals to be defeated by a Pirate who was not a match before them and then suddenly outclassing them by training 2 years Haki, i though believe Akainu would be sometime defeated by Luffy but right now? Nope dude, too early for Luffy and the series.
     
         

  17. #117
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    new manga just came out aokiji has left the marines wat do u think he is doing(just as i thought aokiji is too hard to be under akainu)
    do u think he might join dragon cos he has been shown to follow a different sense of justice and he may have seen wat the world government has become
     
         
    Last edited by Itachi Minato; 12-14-2011 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #118
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    Luffy might be even with Kizaru at this point because of his Haki.
     
         

  19. #119
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    we haven't fully witnessed his power yet
     
         

  20. #120
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    This isn't yet the time.
     
         

  21. #121
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    Re: Luffy could take down an Admiral now?

    That there are people in here who actually believes that just because he has haki, he can defeat an Admiral.... Even if we say he is able to land a punch, do you really think Luffy's level of Haki is enough to hurt them? You'd need Haki like Rayleigh's or WB's etc. to pull it off. People need to look past the DF's and notice that there are powerscalings in OP!
     
         

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