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  1. #26
    GOD
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    Intresting chapter , we learn that Itachi was ordered to kill his clan i hope Kishi has his head straight at the moment ehehe , anyway so in my opinion the 3rd knew but definitely didnt order him to kill his Clan the elders who know would not care if the clan died they only care about Konoha and a whole , Danzou if he did the orders it makes sense , as for some people who said he looks like his brother ive mentioned it before it looks like it but its most likely Madara , and lets not forget Itachi well we found out he did it but to protect and also Madara helped him comon they talked about this before Itachi said you cant kil the person who helped me or something like that so Sasuke before he does anything he needs to kill that other person also. Konoha is upsetting me a lot now that i find out more things i hope there fake , and as for the 3rd if u think maybe he did know about it and just couldnt say no it was up to Itachi because maybe Uchiha wanted to take over but its still iffy, and the 3rd remember is great but at the same time he let the other village threaten him when they wanted the leader of the Byukagen clan or what ever when Neji's dad killed himself the 3rd didnt do anything
     
         

  2. #27
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    The probability that Tobi/Madara is lying at the moment is essentially 0 given our current information. Why? We can look at it both from a plot and plot-design perspective.

    Plot-Design:
    Why give us a whole, giant, multi-chapter LIE? That would only make sense if it was super dramatic and could have rediculous ramifications later. The "lies" Madara are telling now would only increase the gap between them, as Sasuke isn't about to join his clan's murderer. If he had lied and said he wasn't involved, THEN he could have had a chance at Sasuke.

    Plot-
    Think about it. What is the ONLY other reason given for why Itachi killed his family? "To measure my container." That translates to, roughly, "To see if I could."

    Well, he admitted to Sasuke that Madara HELPED HIM. Know what that makes his previous statement? A LIE. If he was being helped, he wasn't identifying his capabilities.

    This is the only other explanation being offered for why Itachi did it, and several chapters are being dedicated to it.

    Not to mention that it never made sense (until now) why Itachi stopped fighting his cousins and father that one day when Sasuke pleaded with him. Or why he brotherly poked his brother's forehead right before dying. Or how he went to talk with Naruto? How about when he cried after hearing that Sasuke died? Wouldn't you think, if he cared so much about Sasuke's eyes, that he would have gone to fight Sasuke right away instead of letting Deidara go and risk them being injured in the fight?

    Sasuke's overall strength wouldn't have mattered if all Itachi wanted were the eyes. Factor in how he gave Sasuke his techniques and designed a protective system for Sasuke using them.

    Yeah. Madara is SO lying... *rolls eyes*

    Fricken' Fanboys...



    And for people pointing out that Sarutobi wouldn't do that? Actually, he probably would have. He was a peace-loving man, but he was also a ninja. He was considered to be one of the most powerful shinobi of all time and was the Hokage during a war with the sand when Kakashi was a boy.

    There is something about the Uchiha clan that we don't know; that is painfully obvious. Nothing about them adds up. Why is it, that if Madara (their leader) was such an enemy of Konoha and the First Hokage was their enemy, they became the Konoha police force?

    Why did they need so many clan meetings, which Itachi was terrible at attending?

    We see when they are fighting Itachi that the 'thugs' in the police force barely even know the law, and call for Itachi's arrest and interogation because someone with a Sharingan could have possibly forged a suicide note. Last I checked, the clan was FILLED with Sharingan users. Not to mention that they randomly don't know that they cannot arrest an ANBU.

    Itachi served directly under the Hokage, yet the clan was incredibly angry when ANBU missions kept him from attending their meetings. Shouldn't such a powerful, respected clan know that Itachi's first duty was to Konoha and his mission?

    If the Uchihas were involved in the Kyuubi attack that nearly decimated the village and cost the life of a Hokage and cursed his son, I think he might be pissed enough to have them punished. Especially considering that peace could have been impossible if the Uchiha's plans were accomplished.

    Sarutobi is a warrior like everyone else. He fights for the greater good. If that meant killing the Uchiha clan, of course he would have done it. And he would have done it silently so that Konoha didn't destabilize worrying about the major clans.

    Sarutobi never stopped clans from creating side families or offering them up as sacrifices so that the main branch would live, such as with Neji's father.

    He may have been a peace-loving man, but he was a fool. You can see it with how he was with Naruto. Instead of teaching Naruto and personally interacting with him along with the village, he put a taboo on the Kyuubi attack. Had he been more proactive, Naruto probably would have grown up in a much more caring environment.

    Ever notice how, when Naruto thinks about the "bonds" he has made, the Third is never first? First comes Iruka-Sensei, then Kakashi-Sensei, then Sasuke/Sakura then the Third with the kids from Konoha.

    Had Sarutobi been more responsible, Orochimaru never would have become the power-hungry man he was. As his teacher, Sarutobi could have prevented that.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the Third. But he was a fool.
     
         

  3. #28
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    If Madara is successful in turning Sasuke to the dark robe of the Akatsuki, then we can assume that they will want to kidnap Naruto to get the MS controllable Kyubi, or the Kyubi juice so they can crush the Leaf Village. It would be an interesting plot twist if Naruto and team went from trying to rescue Sasuke to being ordered to actively hunt him down. Poor Naruto. Not only is Sasuke's world being turned upside down, Naruto's is as well.
     
         

  4. #29
    Medical Ninja XxRed_AngelzxX's Avatar
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    Is it possible that the Uchiha clan was a big threat in the past thats why someone ordered Itachi to kill his clan and if Madara helped him does that make him a good guy
     
         

  5. #30
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    he might have helped cuz he didn't care about his clan and also didn't want to raise alarm by saying no. but idk
     
         

  6. #31
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    ok but i think danzou is in the masacre too

    Itachi's father said that, as ANBU served directly under the Hokage, the police force couldn't touch him without a warrant. Considering the fact that Danzou lost in his quet to be Hokage and created Root as a result, it is safe to say that Itachi was in the normal ANBU.

    It would be a poor choice of events for the Naruto writers if Madara is lying, as Sasuke's quest to deal with his family and try to forgive Itachi offers WAY more character development than him just going "okay" and joining Akatsuki. Then realizing Madara did lie and killing him.

    Madara is basically bridging a gap so that Sasuke's story can move past the "must kill Itachi" phase it has been trapped in for the past two hundred manga chapters. In the beginning, he said that he had two goals. But he has only focused on one for awhile now. We are finally bringing the clan back into the picture so that Sasuke can eventually return to Konoha.

    I just hope we get rid of Snake in the process. -.- I only like Jugo (a kind and caring hulk-esque guy looking for a cure ). Karin needs to lay off the hormone pills and Suigetsu needs to stop being so creepy.

    I want team 7 back, where Sai will be the fourth member. Unfortunately, that does mean that Tenzou and Kakashi cannot be in it anymore, but oh well. Kakashi should go on a date with Iruka instead....
     
         

  7. #32
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    yeah i agree. the next chapter is called "the sorrow of that day" so its gunna be about maybe the fight with shodaime and madara and maybe why itachi was ordered to kil his clan. but after all this news i hope they get back to naruto and the gang cuz all this uchiha stuff is clogging my arteries
     
         

  8. #33
    Medical Ninja XxRed_AngelzxX's Avatar
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    have you notice that the hyuuga clan was not mention in the past
     
         

  9. #34
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    ya even though i love the hyuuga, idk if there gunna be very important, but hopefully prove me wrong
     
         

  10. #35
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    What I want to find out is how strong where the rest of the senju clan besides the 1st
     
         

  11. #36
    Legendary Steinbiz Steinbiz's Avatar
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    oh man if you think about it, the senju clan is down to JUST yamato. so what happened to the senju?
     
         

  12. #37
    wnaruto.net TheUchiha's Avatar
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    i didnt really like chapter 398
     
         

  13. #38
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    You know for a fact that Sarutobi wouldn't kill a clan? Even if that clan had put all of Konoha in danger for the chance to take over? Or if they had other plans in motion?

    Honestly, the only "innocent" members of the Uchiha clan we have ever seen are:

    -Sasuke's/Itachi's Mother (presumedly not born an Uchiha)
    -Sasuke/Young (older brother style) Itachi
    -Aunt and Uncle (who were such minor characters anyway. And the fact that they ran a bakery suggests that neither were very gifted shinobi)

    And, just to point out, Madara said that the only ones that knew were Sarutobi, Danzou and the two elders. That could easily mean that the other three assigned the mission and Sarutobi found out later.

    The fact of the matter is that there is a big gaping hole in the Sasuke/Itachi story that this "lie" fills a little too well.

    When I first saw the two brothers together in the flash backs, my thoughts actually were, "How in the world could a brother that seems so caring all the time turn out so evil?"

    Even his "final" act of defiance was interuppted by Sasuke's attempt to stop it.

    Itachi's actions just don't add up on their own. Why did he lie to Sasuke when he did it? Why not just tell him that an order from his new master made him do it? We know that Madara helped, and that he taught Itachi the secrets of the Mangekyou Sharingan. Why would Itachi go to such lengths to make himself the sole focus of Sasuke's wrath? Even more importantly, why would he have let Sasuke live? And before you say, "for his eyes," consider something.

    In their recent battle, Itachi is trying to take Sasuke's eyes, even though he hasn't awoken the Mangekyou Sharingan. If he didn't need Sasuke to awaken it, why in the world wouldn't he have just taken it from young Sasuke and keep himself from ever going blind in the first place? Why make Sasuke grow in strength?

    If Itachi's main goal was to protect Sasuke, that makes sense. Maybe it was just me, but I predicted a chain of events similar to this way, way back. One of my Narunerd friends actually got mad at me last chapter because I am, "always right." :P

    (I'm that guy who whispers in your ear twenty minutes into the movie how it will end, and am right 9/10 times.)

    The, "I am the villain, gill me nowz!!!11!one!11!" thing just isn't stylish enough for Naruto. Think about it for a second. How many villains, in the grand scheme of things, have died being truly evil in the Naruto universe. Don't nearly all of them have a change of heart or back-story (usually regarding one they care about... or Naruto) in the end?

    We have Haku/Zabuza, a variety of filler characters, that crazy guy with the bombs, Kabuto (though he is quite insane, and needs to stop acting cool when killing bees...), that other swordsman of the mist who has the little boy, Kimmimaru, etc.

    No major villain (and most minor) have such one sided characters as "I want my brother's eyes so I killed my family."

    It has to be something more. And it CLEARLY is.

    Madara has NO reason to lie, especially considering the fact that the lie he is telling won't really help his position. Sasuke still knows that Madara is also responsible, and will not be joining him any time soon.
     
         

  14. #39
    Senior Member Madara  Uchiha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steinbiz View Post
    well if it's true that you need to kill your best friend in order to get MS. then how did kakashi get it. cuz gai isn't dead lol. also if sasuke ends up joining or killing madara that will suck both ways cuz if he joins him they are gnnna be really powerful. and if sasuke ends up killing madara that will be gay cuz sasuke has already pretty much taken care of Orochimaru, Deidara, AND Itachi. I think sasuke should be done killing for a while jeez.
    I explaned how kakashi got ms in the old thingamajig narutobase but now its gone and i dont feel like posting it again
    So...........Versuvio can u like copy and paste that first post thing that i made in the "How Kakashi Got Mangekyou Sharingan" forum in the old narutobase here so they can all see it if they havent already or can u just PM it to me after pasting it...if thats not too much to ask
     
         

  15. #40
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    the third couldn't do shit about hiashi or hizashi hizashi wanted to die because he wanted to chose his own path for once. Sarutobi had no say in that because even if he did like the gezzer said "this is why we have branch families" weather the 3rd wanted to or not hizashi would still go and die hiashi didn't want it either but he got knocked out quick.

    When it's clan affaris nobody can but in but this is different this is saying bascially the third isresponsible for the massacre because he made itachi kill them all he ordered them which i know for fact sarutobi would never do.
     
         

  16. #41
    Senior Member Madara  Uchiha's Avatar
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    My theory:
    OK so u all remember when danzou ordered "sai" to kill sasuke. This was to finish the job that itachi didnt. Itachi was ordered to kill his entire clan but left one alive..........Sasuke. This was becuz...
    1.)He knew that Sasuke was one of the few who could kill Madara.(maybe)
    (Elders didnt know madara was alive but Itachi did. He was probably already in akatsuki as a spy or sometin.)
    2.)He couldnt bring himself to kill his little brother cuz he was completely inocent.

    When i mean innocent I mean he didnt know anything that was going on in the Uchiha clan that would order their execution by Third, Danzou, and Elders.
    Itachi probably reported this to the hokage cuz even though he was Uchiha he was loyal to the leaf and probably wanted to protect it from whatever danger Uchiha had prepared.

    But I dont put the third in this situation cuz im pretty sure he wouldnt do this. He would probably try to find "another way" or someting but time was running out so he was forced to assign Itachi this mission.
     
         
    Last edited by Madara Uchiha; 04-26-2008 at 03:55 AM.

  17. #42
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    Itachi = bad madara = liar get over it.

    Madara isn't telling this to sasuke cause he is nice he is doing this because he knows he will gain greatly from this what will he gain well the one thing he was interested in "sasuke".

    Sasuke = Anakin Skywalker. Tobi's poison will get him cut him to the core and he'll go on a rampage. We are looking at the new potential Madara apprentice here, trust me.

    Konoha = Jedi.....
    Naruto = Luke
    Pain = lol Darth Maul
    Tobi = Darth Sidious
    Jiraiya = Qui gun jin

    Jedi ="evil"
    Naruto= chosen one
    pain= guy who killed his teacher
    tobi= the motherfuker who has been around for centuries evilllll
    Jiraiya= teacher who died thsu enraging naruto's spark.

    Sasuke= guy who will be brainwashed and nobodies words would get to him he will think one thing jedi are evil jedi= konoha

    Kakashi=Obi-Wan who will do what he must.

    That's how it is.

    Madra is:

    A= Lying

    B= twisting the truth and adding bullshit to it

    C= telling him half the story but not the whole thing.
     
         

  18. #43
    Senior Member Madara  Uchiha's Avatar
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    shodaime= CHUBAKA!!!!
     
         

  19. #44
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    *forward* sry for my bad english^^

    i think there is another way. the 3th gave itachi the mission. yaeh i know "unbelievable" "impossible", but a hokage is the defender of konoha, more than all other things, sarutobi said that in the fight with orochimaru. now why? its possible that jiraira is right with his oppinion that madara controlled the 9tailed, and its possible that the uchiha clan knew this, and more, the uchiha clan knew how to do this. And madara fights to the 1th, foundet konoha, but, i dont know the capture anymore, madara would a other way for konoha like the 1th, and madara was the leader of uchiha. SO its possible that the uchiha clan would change konoha in the way of madara, without doubts and within all things the have to do for this goal. Now only Itachi wouldn't take this way and tell this to the 3th. But why this big LIE, its simple, the uchiha clan wars a part of konoha and if came out the truth a kind of civilwar can come up, so its better the village hate one person and dont know the truth, so all work for one goal again. But im not sure why madara helped him, but its pssible that he will be care that he is the strongest uchiha again, in other words, no uchiha clan no chance for itachi to get better eyes. Itachi know this fact and protect sasuke, to get his eyes or that sasuke came up strong enought to battle madara. Ok now danzou, he will work in this story with uchiha clan together, but this plan lost, cause uchihaclan died. To protect his importantst person (madara cause he can control the 9tailed) he tried to kill sasuke, so itachi cant get his eyes, or sasuke cant come strong enough to kill madara. All that means danzou dont interesst for orochimaru, he is interessted by akatsuki, cause there power is enough to capture konoha. Its possible to that danzou is the leader or right hand or spy for the akatsuki.

    And sry again my english is horrible, i hope the text is understandable *g
     
         

  20. #45
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madara Uchiha View Post
    shodaime= CHUBAKA!!!!
    what the hell do u say back to the topic
     
         

  21. #46
    Sage106
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    the third couldnt kill oro his student when he first found out he was betraying the village then how could he then order the killing of a whole entire clan.
     
         

  • #47
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    Hehehe i see my english is worster than i know^^

    ignore the part with oro in my post, it was only to say, that the 3th is a man of peace a ninja a family guy, but over all of them he is the protector of konoha, after this came all other things. and another thing will belogical in my theory. All know that, that danzou will become hokage and that he try to revolute to the hokage, also why is he in konoha again. there is only one reason in my oppinion. Danzou know something about the hokage, but the hokage knows something about danzou. so you have an situation like an political draw or a stalemate in chess. and that waht danzou know is that the 3th gave the mission to kill the uchiha clan on itachi, and the 3th knows about danzous relationsship to the plan of uchiha clan or akatsuki or madara.
     
         
    Last edited by Oelsni; 04-26-2008 at 02:29 PM.

  • #48
    Sage106
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    maybe danzao wanted sasuke dead cuz he knew sasuke would eventually join up with maadara. i dont believe maadara is telling the whole truth , he wants manipulate sasuke into joining up with him by creating hatred between sasuke and konoha. i believe maadara is the person who ordered him to kill the uchicha clan cuz itaachi himself said maadara helped him killed the clan. Ofcourse there is a slight chance danzaou had a hand in this but not definantly the 3rd. it looks like sasuke is gonna join up with akatsuki and be maadara's apprentice
     
         

  • #49
    No Madara&Shodaime?No war Shodaime's Avatar
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    But, even then, Madara is still not lying in a way that encourages trust between he and Sasuke. He is doing it in a way that, while it may destabilize Sasuke, he is only increasing the gap between him. Because:

    A. Sasuke believes Madara that Itachi was good and is overcome with guilt. He recognizes Madara as the major reason for all of his suffering and vows to destroy him.

    B. Sasuke doesn't believe Madara, and the author just wasted several chapters over a random lie that has no meaning.

    It is very easy to think of possibilities. Is it possible that Madara is lying? Yes. Does that make sense? No.

    Why? Because it has clearly been set up from the start. You are a consumer, correct? As a consumer, are you going to be happy if the entire edition you just bought is one giant lie? No. You won't. It doesn't strengthen the plot if Madara is lying. It shakes it up and destroys a ton of character development for Sasuke and Itachi, and weaken's their story as well.

    However, if Madara is telling the truth, Sasuke now has:

    -A reason to still be in the manga, be it for or against Madara and/or Konoha.
    -A ton of character development, as he will be forced to question every thought he has had about his brother for years.
    -A ton of answers for previous questions.

    If Madara is lying, we have:

    -I guess a potential arc where Sasuke joins Akatsuki, although that just sounds boring.
    -No character development for Itachi or Sasuke.
    -No questions to answers.
    -No reason for several chapters to be dedicated to a "fake history" that has been built up over the course of the series.

    While, character-wise, there may be some reason for Madara to lie (although this is completely unfounded by anything stated in the manga), there just isn't any point for it design-wise. The story is stronger if it is the truth. Just as the story was stronger because Jiraiya died instead of escaping, Orochimaru is gone for good so we can move on to new villains, Tsunade becomes the Hokage, Naruto learns to advance the Rasengan, Sakura becomes a medical ninja, blah, blah, blah.

    No author will intentionally weaken their story.


    And there is no proof for your basis that "Madara is always lying." Actually, Madara is the only one consistently up-front about everything.

    Yes I killed your family. Yes, I was beaten by the stupid, first Hokage (who I unfortunately admired). Yes, I controlled the Kyuubi. Yes, I created Akatsuki.

    The only "lie" is him pretending to be an idiot so that he can spy on Akatsuki easily while Pein secretly reports to him.

    Seriously, either create an argument from story aspects or design standpoints.

    And saying that Sarutobi wanted peace overall means NOTHING. Naruto wants peace as well, but it doesn't stop him from killing a rival Shinobi if he has to.

    Sarutobi led Konoha through a war so that it came out strong, and assigned assasination missions to shinobi everyday. He runs off into battle with the rest of them. He tries to rip out Orochimaru's soul.

    He was a peace-lover, yes, but one of the major themes of Naruto is that the children are the future that will see past our own foolishness. Sarutobi may have loved peace, but he was still a warrior from a rough past. He WOULD have killed the Uchiha clan if necessary. This is a man that was willing to send a group of thirteen year olds into an enemy infested area during a war (Kakashi Gaiden). He understood a balance system where some evil was necessary for the greater good.

    Which brings more peace? The Uchiha clan destroys/takes over Konoha during a civil war costing many lives. The Uchihas are quietly dispatched in one night and the people grieve, but move on.

    It is easy to see. It is the same way Danzou is an "enemy" now. If the Fifth got proof that he was planning something terrible, he would be killed instantly and Root disbanded.

    Konoha protects Konoha before it protects the individual. The Hokage is a leader because he is recognized as being the best man for the job. If the elders didn't think that he was doing it correctly, I am sure that they could do away with him.

    Why else would Tsunade agree to their demands, if she could just say, "I'm Hokage, I do what I want,"?
     
         

  • #50
    moo TOBI!'s Avatar
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    in a location that may or may not be concived by your mind or subcoucousness. WASHED UP HIPPIES FTW
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    the differance between tobi and sauske and ankien(spelling) and sidious is
    anikan joined sidious because it was his only choice for so he belived
    as for suaske he can still return to konoha even though he hurt naruto
    suaske= almost killed naruto
    anakin=slaughterd jedi in jedi temple and helped kill mace windu(i think sidious lost on purpose)
     
         

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