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  1. #341
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Squigles, I do grant that you have a point with them being taken by surprise. I only pointed that out because Itachi is both clever and paranoid, something that leads to him planning very far ahead. Your idea about Itachi trying to draw Kabuto closer might be true, but somehow - call it a hunch - I feel that it was just surprise or some other problem.

    You brought up an excellent point about un-summoning individuals. I'm not sure he can do that, since there is no data, but it does seem likely since he can summon individuals. Is it the Genjutsu? Is it Kabuto's desire for a challenge, to foolishly prove his superiority and might? Villains often do such stupid things when they could theoretically win. I don't know, but given the flashback, it seems plausible.

    You mentioned the possibility of Izanami already being in effect. I theorize that the activation of the jutsu or the ending of the jutsu might be the cause for Itachi getting hurt. I base this on the fact that Itachi's right eye was closed (Is it from pain or due to losing a Sharingan to Izanami) right before he regenerated, sharingan included. It's impressive if he managed to save Sasuke under those conditions. This begs two questions:
    1. Was the Izanami in effect, based on the above? Is my observation at least accurate, even if my interpretation is wrong?
    2. Will the Sharingan regenerated by the Edo Tensei after the use of Izanami be of any use?
    3. Was Sasuke distracted for some really important reason? Why did Itachi tell him to stick close?
    4. Is it certain that one will lose eyesight after the Izanami? Do we have cold hard facts? If not, will there be another sacrifice or no sacrifice at all?

    NarutoMinato raised a rather interesting point about the Amaterasu, one which I'd asked myself. I'm glad that you pointed out the use of the Susano'o squigles, because I hadn't realized the significance of it, even though the difference was clear in the examples I brought up. This brings up the following questions:
    1. While the EMS provably returns the eyesight of the person in question, does it really protect one from all MS techniques? Could the use of Amaterasu cause further damage to the EMS where the Susano'o doesn't?
    2. Are there other EMS techniques that cause bleeding or loss of vision?
    3. Why is the case of using Amaterasu through the susano'o (Blaze release Magatama and Amaterasu coated arrows) different?

    I theorized earlier that the EMS might still cause blindness due to some techniques or pose another risk. (Most high level techniques in Kishi's world pose a risk and are not risk free, afaik.) Was it due to this that Madara sought out the power of Hashirama (life force and healing from the Mokuton to restore his eyes) and did he really gain a bit of Hashirama's power? Did that cause the evolution of the Rinnegan? I know that this theory is a bit wild, but it is possible to some extent. In any case, I'm curious.

    Finally, I'd like to point out that Kabuto called himself closer to the Sage of the Six Path's than anyone else. This suggests to me that he might have made further body modifications. However, it could be because he gave life through the Muki Tensei. Thoughts everyone?

    Once again, I hope you guys take a look and share your thoughts on all of the above!
     
         

  2. #342
    Senior Member Dreckerplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Gin-San View Post
    I swear... kids these days ~_~

    The chapter was great, having knowledge of the antagonist's past is an excellent way to sympathize with him and understand his intentions. Expert manga writers and novelists usually do this in order to create a much more dramatic effect and make the story much more interesting. It of course was "talk no jutsu" and flashbacks, but these are important elements for the story. Kabuto's history is actually interesting, and I would like to know more about his past. The idea of becoming cynical and psychopath for no reason is not really appealing for the tastes.

    People nowadays just want random actions and powers without even knowing why are they fighting or their intentions. Seriously, if you don't want a story with plot, then change to another manga, like bleach for example, which has a terrible plot line but good fights.

    I find it more disappointing that people prefer action over plot, I'm feeling uneasy in what our future holds ~_~
    What do you mean "Kids these Days"

    Please don't be condescending, because if the chapter was sooo great, then why was it rated only 3 stars?Our opinions are just as important as yours.For me, it's not the fact that it was "talk no jutsu" in that chapter, it's the fact that his flashback was basically a breif moment of "nothing". What was established?I was still left confused, and full of questions.I thought I was going to gain new knowledge about Kabuto, and I was left hanging.He made it clear in the previous chapter that he was a lonewolf that had no identity.Why are we going backwards?
     
         

  3. #343
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Dreckerplayer, I too was disappointed that we didn't find out more about Kabuto! Yes, Izanami would've been interesting too, but I only have myself to blame for going in with expectations. I'm not saying the chapter was shit, far from it, especially since we got some interesting clues.

    Everyone, I wonder why Kabuto thinks of himself as close to the Sage of the Six Paths. Kabuto doesn't seem to be the kind of person to make empty claims, at least not without a reason. Plus, a claim of that sort has to be backed by substantial power. Otherwise, he'll once again lose his position of power in some sense, right? (To his own mind if nothing else)

    Thoughts anyone?
     
         
    Last edited by ChakraSage; 04-13-2012 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Grammar plus added griping.

  4. #344
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    I dunno why everybody is raggin on this chapter, (Izanami will come soon enough) I liked chibi-Kabuto. But something makes me think that he's gonna do something terrbile in that orphange. :S
     
         

  5. #345
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    ApplyPressure, what a chilling thought! It'll be interesting if he does end up doing something mean.

    On a side note, I'd like to ask if there is a thread where real discussion takes place on this chapter. While people's opinion's are valuable and good to know, most of the thread seems to be taken over by complaints and condescending responses to those complaints. I've seen some posts by other users way back in this thread who raised some interesting points only for everything to devolve into noise and the interesting ideas to be ignored. The users seem to leave at that point as well. Please don't be offended guys, I'm new here, so maybe I'm just at the wrong place and I have the wrong perspective. Anyway, do let me know.
     
         

  6. #346
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ChakraSage View Post
    ApplyPressure, what a chilling thought! It'll be interesting if he does end up doing something mean.

    On a side note, I'd like to ask if there is a thread where real discussion takes place on this chapter. While people's opinion's are valuable and good to know, most of the thread seems to be taken over by complaints and condescending responses to those complaints. I've seen some posts by other users way back in this thread who raised some interesting points only for everything to devolve into noise and the interesting ideas to be ignored. The users seem to leave at that point as well. Please don't be offended guys, I'm new here, so maybe I'm just at the wrong place and I have the wrong perspective. Anyway, do let me know.
    ChakraSage I've wondered that too, but honestly probably not. The forum's open to anyone, so it turns out the good comes with the bad really.
     
         

  7. #347
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Meeeeehhhhh... Though I'd like to know more about Kabuto, this chapter was *profoundly* anticlimactic imhmfo.
     
         

  8. #348
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    the chapter sucks
     
         

  9. #349
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    after reading some posts i changed my mind, this chap is just good (it isnt very good or epic but it doesnt suck as i thought when i first read it) cause some plot no jutsu once in a while isnt that bad...anyway we all know that the next chapter is going to be epic
     
         

  10. #350
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    arghhhhh many flashbacks....
     
         

  11. #351
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    SISalutations , NUFF RESPECT TO ALL OF THE NARUTOBASE.NET MASSIVE STAFFERS AND BLOGGERS..Let's begin.

    By far this is one of the worst chapters ever..not because of the content but for the fact that it did no justice for the izanami follow up. I actually appreciated the Kabuto story..(after I read the chapter for the 8th time ).. it let me know that Kabuto's reign is coming to an end. ( flashbacks always lead to death ...danzo,3rd hokage, konan, nagato,oro,jiraiya .. the list goes on )

    I can't argue about the what if's with the whole itachi/ edo self sacrifice thing , clearly any kind of " what if " theories in naruto is completely irrelevant..since we are not kishi. Also in the beginning of the chapter it did say " Itachi's secret plan " ..could izanami be taking effect without us knowing ? Is it a jutsu that turn reality into an illusion ? Hopefully this will be answered in the next chapter.

    Till then..later.
     
         

  12. #352
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    it was ok i really want to go back to tobi and narutos fight. i like seeing itachi back tho hes awsome.
     
         

  13. #353
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    I just want to say two things. Now i havent read the post here yet. But ive been to other sites and no one has mention any of the two things im about to mention. One is why has everyone forgot anko is still in the cave. Personally i feel shes the one who will kill kabuto if he does end up dying in the cave. She will use his horn that was cut off. Two no one has mentioned the zetsu spores put on kabuto. I feel these spores will make exact clone of kabuto in his sage mode to aid masked man or copy his techniques so that mask man can use them. Still its like people forgot about the spores and anko.
     
         

  14. #354
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    These past havent been good since naruto turned into full karuma mode and kabuto just plain sucks he will never be orochimaru
     
         

  15. #355
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Its over. Kabuto just used Talk no Jutsu and Sad Past/Childhood no Jutsu.
    Uchiha bro's are gonna die.
     
         

  16. #356
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    was expecting more but at least you learned some of kabuto's past
     
         

  17. #357
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    i totally agree with that much respect
     
         

  18. #358
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Discussion: This chapter was somewhat disappointing as Kishi is inducing plot-stupidity where Sasuke is concerned having him not protect himself with his Susanoo when he has many times before rather having Itachi do it for him and he is then impaled by Kabuto's jutsu to showcase what that jutsu can do (which I thought was a nice jutsu nevertheless). I think Kishi could have done better revealing the capabilities of this jutsu without having to resort the downplaying of Sasuke's character. The flashback was okay as I've read flashbacks from other manga and Kishi's are the most pleasant in my opinion and he ended it within the same chapter. Itachi isn't done at least and there is still a chance that he comes out victorious and I need to know what he wants to tell Sasuke.

    Predictions: I think Itachi will gain the upper hand as it appears as though Izanami takes time to prepare unfortunately. However, Kabuto initially began to recall his past due to comparing himself to Itachi. Most recently Itachi began to take advantage of Kabuto by playing with his mind which invoked him to recall his past. It appears as though Itachi has done this to bide his time in order to unleash this doujutsu.
     
         

  19. #359
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    ApplyPressure, thanks for that honest assessment. I think that it is the reviews/ratings that cause it though. People come, post their thoughts on the chapter and leave. Lots of noise comes in that way and renders the discussion difficult. I have ideas on solving this that I put up in this thread. Maybe I can find another home for a discussion on a good discussion thread? Then I could launch a useful one and see if things can be worked out.

    wonderer, thanks for reminding me about Anko! I hadn't forgotten her until just this chapter. Anyway, I'm curious about her because the seal holding her back/draining Orochimaru's chakra was gone the last time we saw her. I'm unsure if she'll wake up soon or help a lot though. I assume that she's very worn out/beat up, based on what we've seen. Given that, she might strike at a crucial moment. If she does, I only hope that she doesn't kill him prematurely. The most important question in that regard, if you ask me, is: Why was Kabuto collecting Orochimaru's vile chakra? It seems like both of them were after the power of nature and of the Sage of the Six Paths in some sense. I can't wait to find out!

    I also have to thank you (wonderer) for bringing up the Zetsu spores. The abilitiy to copy techniques as well as chakra would make the white Zetsu's near invincible. We have seen no evidence of this ability to date. That doesn't mean that it can't happen. Still, I suspect some kind of major drawback to exist for it, even if it is possible. Usually, it would be limited to one-time use, but with the number of Zetsu clones, that doesn't even make sense. So here are my questions in that regard for everyone:
    1. Can the Zetsu spores immediately copy a person after spawning a new zetsu? It seems possible since the chakra copy only needs touch, but we have no evidence.
    2. Will the Zetsu spawned from spores immediately have all the information about Kabuto's plans that has been revealed or even just thought of by kabuto?
    3. Will Zetsu warn Tobi or otherwise signal Tobi of Kabuto's plans if he finds a betrayal?
    4. Will Tobi or black Zetsu track Kabuto down by the spores at some point, especially for suspected betrayal?
    5. Will Zetsu (spawned from the spores) play any role in the battle against Kabuto at all? Will he fight with Kabuto or turn against him, especially since Kabuto is turning against the Akatsuki to some extent (growing too big for his boots)?

    I'd like to point out that Black Zetsu was dying, but he was still lying on the ground and he has power over land. I wonder if he'll survive somehow, maybe even by going through the ground. Either way, I feel like we haven't seen the last of him and he'll be back to cause trouble.

    Finally, I'd like to address a point brought up in Kuroi Honoo's prediction. I don't think Izanami needs to be prepared for long unless Itachi was bluffing in the previous chapter. Given how long Izanagi takes to prepare, I doubt it. Finally, Izanami might already be in effect, especially considering how Itachi's eye was closed just before he regenerated. Kabuto might have done himself in by his villain's instinct - the desire to talk! If it is not in effect, Itachi might have to prepare it again due to disintegration. I'd also like to add that being saved doesn't really downplay Sasuke's character. Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion on it. Still, I think Sasuke's chakra is being conserved while Naruto's used up for some reason. I pray to the heaven's that Naruto survives his battles!
     
         

  20. #360
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    Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 582 Discussion and 583 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha Heikou View Post
    Many didn't seem to catch it, but Itachi DID use Izanami and it was shown in the manga. Izanami is a jutsu used to breathe life into unliving things. In this chapter he uses it to bring the cave surrounding Kabuto to life and use it against him.

    This also confirms one idea and supports another: Izanagi combined with Izanami is Banbutsu Sozo, Creation of all Things. Izanagi is used to create form from nothing and Izanami is then used to breathe life into it.

    Izanagi creates reality from illusion, you could call a rotation/conversion from Yin to Yang. Izanami breathes life into an illusion, rotation from Yang to Yin. The Uchiha are Yin oriented and the Senju are Yang oriented. This would indicate why Senju DNA is required to use either technique, to bolster the Uchiha's naturally weak Yang chakra.

    If this is to be believed it would further indicate that Senju DNA is required for Edo Tensei and Itachi possesses it due to being Kabuto's zombie (Zombuto?).

    Kabuto uses a technique called "Inanimate Transmigration." Transmigration is the belief that, as a part of the process of reincarnation, the soul enters a lifeless body. This sounds remarkably identical to Izanami. Did Kabuto just demonstrate that he has the same power? Also this technique sounds very similar to Edo Tensei, just that the body and soul are specific.

    Also, for those confused: Sennin translates to "Sage" or "Hermit" so the "Hermit of the Six Paths" is almost definitely a mis-translation. Apparently the translator doesn't read the manga.

    Lastly, I was disappointed with this chapter. Not enough talk-no-jutsu surrounding Izanami and too much around kiddo Kabuto. For Itachi to be so sure of this technique, it seems kind of ill-suited for the fight. I honestly feel that knowing Kabuto's childhood does very little for the story and just fills pages so Kishi doesn't have to reveal more than one fact per issue. It feels like what is a good plot, is being stretched into as many issues as possible and each issue ends up with very little substance. This is kind of the whole style of Naruto but I can't help but feel that earlier issues were more than "one fact and 16 pages of filler".
    Seeing as in 25 pages I'm the only one that seems to think that Itachi did indeed use Izanami, I'm going to repost here. Either this just got buried and nobody read it or I'm just way off.

    I too had forgotten about Anko, it seemed like Kabuto just needed her as an Orochimaru-chakra battery.
     
         

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