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  1. #1
    Fedor pwns roflcopter's Avatar
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    Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Thats what I mean and thats what came to my mind while i was reading another post about Pein vs Naruto.

    We all know that Jiraya almost defeated Pein right. Like almost... he defeated 3 bodies who were NOTHING like Pein, I mean Pein didnt even use Shinra tensei, and if he did, Jiraya wouldnt even have a chance to lay a FInger on him, i guess.
    I mean, to be honest JIraya took only 1 body down, the other were just fine after defeating him. Pein was jsut testing his power n so on;/ I realluy dont udnerstand people who say " J-man would take out Pein if pein wouldnt cut his arm from behind" but think about God realms power, Jiraya could be SHinratenseyed-in-the ass.


    Then, there goes another Pein fight, Pein vs Naruto. ALlright, Pein lost now BUT. He has been injured when he started to fight Naruto. Do you remember ?

    1) He already used a lotof chakra fighting Kakashi and other people + he used that big SHinra tensei which prolly drained half of his chakra.
    2) When Naruto started to fight Pein, The main and the strongest Body was disabled. I dont see how could Naruto take out the 5 bodys if GOd realm would have his Shinra Tensei back then.
    3) He didnt use that weird eye technique against Naruto, which he used agains tJIraya and Kakashi, when a person loses his senses for a while and is unable to concentrate and attack.

    SO to sum up, i wanna say that Pein vs Naruto is unfair. NAruto was full power with frogs and Pein was already coughing blood from Shinra tensei with 1 partially disabled(main) body.

    He didnt use his power alltogether against Naruto, as he could do it with the help of God realm.
    Thats like fighting a person who can use a leg, then a hand, then another leg, then another hand, without moving them silmountaniously.

    SO whats important, Naruto is still no match for Pein.
     
         

  2. #2
    Senior Member Ryuusaki's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    I wouldn't say i think it's directly "unfair" considering Pein already invested loads of power into destroying the village and using the Chibaku Tensei, and even so.. the true strength lies with Pein having all his bodies intact and power distributed evenly amongst the 6 of them, this is not the case atm.
     
         

  3. #3
    What? Kazamori's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Thats what I mean and thats what came to my mind while i was reading another post about Pein vs Naruto.

    We all know that Jiraya almost defeated Pein right. Like almost... he defeated 3 bodies who were NOTHING like Pein, I mean Pein didnt even use Shinra tensei, and if he did, Jiraya wouldnt even have a chance to lay a FInger on him, i guess.
    I mean, to be honest JIraya took only 1 body down, the other were just fine after defeating him. Pein was jsut testing his power n so on;/ I realluy dont udnerstand people who say " J-man would take out Pein if pein wouldnt cut his arm from behind" but think about God realms power, Jiraya could be SHinratenseyed-in-the ass.


    Then, there goes another Pein fight, Pein vs Naruto. ALlright, Pein lost now BUT. He has been injured when he started to fight Naruto. Do you remember ?

    1) He already used a lotof chakra fighting Kakashi and other people + he used that big SHinra tensei which prolly drained half of his chakra.
    2) When Naruto started to fight Pein, The main and the strongest Body was disabled. I dont see how could Naruto take out the 5 bodys if GOd realm would have his Shinra Tensei back then.
    3) He didnt use that weird eye technique against Naruto, which he used agains tJIraya and Kakashi, when a person loses his senses for a while and is unable to concentrate and attack.

    SO to sum up, i wanna say that Pein vs Naruto is unfair. NAruto was full power with frogs and Pein was already coughing blood from Shinra tensei with 1 partially disabled(main) body.

    He didnt use his power alltogether against Naruto, as he could do it with the help of God realm.
    Thats like fighting a person who can use a leg, then a hand, then another leg, then another hand, without moving them silmountaniously.

    SO whats important, Naruto is still no match for Pein.

    He used



    But right after that , Naruto turned 6-tails ... so that was reason why he had no effect of tech. later .

    So later he tryed to stab Naruto again


    And YES
    -Pain wasnt at his full-power-chakra .
    -Naruto knew few weak spots of Pain bodies .
    -Jiraya fought Pain knowing nothing and he lost .
    -If not Jiraya , Naruto would be captured and village destroyed
     
         

  4. #4
    taijutsi specialist konoha s beautiful beast's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuusaki View Post
    I wouldn't say i think it's directly "unfair" considering Pein already invested loads of power into destroying the village and using the Chibaku Tensei, and even so.. the true strength lies with Pein having all his bodies intact and power distributed evenly amongst the 6 of them, this is not the case atm.
    I agree.
    plus after using shira tensei god realm needs about 5 seconds to use it again.and in 5 secs naruto would rasengan him several times with his clones
     
         

  5. #5
    Six Hokage's Son Sasuke Uzumaki's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    I wonder if he's still no match for Pain. I agree with you, Pain was already tired, but it was his fault: such an experienced ninja should be able to calculate he needs to keep chakra for the remaining fight.

    He used great amounts of chakra just to find out info, to show how godly he is, instead of just gathering the info in another manner (sort of spying - can't Pain make a transformation jutsu as the rest of ninjas?), and then looking for the 9 tails. Besides, he was certain he was capable of fighting the 9-tails.

    And Naruto coming back from 8-tails in sage mode shows they are at least at the same level. It's not to defend Naruto, what I mean is that Naruto was not exhausted after turning 8-tails, and that is as tiresome as attacking the village as Pain did.
     
         

  6. #6
    Member Hakdaddy's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Thats what I mean and thats what came to my mind while i was reading another post about Pein vs Naruto.

    SO whats important, Naruto is still no match for Pein.
    well, considering Pein knows his limits much better than a little kid who has just graduated from Sage academy...i would say you're comparing apples to oranges.
    1)Naruto has not been developing multiple jutsus like Pein has.
    2)He doesn't even know his secondary affinity and Pein has them all.
    3)Pein's been developing his abilities more as an assassin while Naruto more for defensive/protective purposes (i'm talking mentality, not jutsus). So, his plan to attack Konoha was WELL-THOUGHT out and planned...and what was his purpose?? Deva-station and capture of jinchuuriki.

    Now, if anything, Pein has greater abilities (that he knows how to use), much much much more planning, and a desire for destruction (his desire matches Naruto's desire for saving people).

    Naruto, on the other hand, is taking brand new abilities (testing them out as he goes) and guessing how to counter a foe with unlimited techniques. He's also young and immature (although he's growing fight by fight; situation by situation). He's much too young and raw to understand his abilities to the extent that Pein should know his, YET...He's gonna beat Pein anyway.

    Pein should be the obvious victor in this fight but Naruto is probably the greatest fighting genius that Konoha has (note: not mental genius, not planning genius, not vocal genius, not philosophical genius...he's an action genius which in the psychology world of Myers-Briggs...he's a judging type who knows how to make decisions in the moment that usually bring victory.)

    Now bring on some NaruHina babies!
     
         

  7. #7
    Academy Student Yoka's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Pain has simply underestimated Naruto. Snooty ass. x)
     
         

  8. #8
    The Yellow Flash sandshark's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke Uzumaki View Post
    I wonder if he's still no match for Pain. I agree with you, Pain was already tired, but it was his fault: such an experienced ninja should be able to calculate he needs to keep chakra for the remaining fight.

    He used great amounts of chakra just to find out info, to show how godly he is, instead of just gathering the info in another manner (sort of spying - can't Pain make a transformation jutsu as the rest of ninjas?), and then looking for the 9 tails. Besides, he was certain he was capable of fighting the 9-tails.

    And Naruto coming back from 8-tails in sage mode shows they are at least at the same level. It's not to defend Naruto, what I mean is that Naruto was not exhausted after turning 8-tails, and that is as tiresome as attacking the village as Pain did.
    I agree. Pein is a powerful ninja but like many he underetimated his opponenet, putting him at a disadvantage. J-man's info was vital to defeating Pein yes, but I wouldn't say it's unfair. Naruto still found ways to hit Pein's various bodies and was able to resist Pein's force push thing.
     
         

  9. #9
    Just Copied Hell TheCopyNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    I say let's call a spade a spade and look at it like this if you pick a fight whether at full strenght or not you better win... who cares he wasnt at full strenght he doesnt even use his own body... plus fat body Pein sucks up chakra, and and sucked up at least 1 frs so I call it even...
     
         

  10. #10
    the Voodoo Child Buu's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    roflcopter is on the money.

    Logicly: who controls the most charkra, wins, and then factors about the enviornment and then skills come into play. That's how you find your outcome.

    Just like Gaara vs Deidara.
    Deidara minimum on clay against a Jinchuuriki Gaara on his turf.
    With sand everywhere, Deidara was able to win by taking advantage by attacking the village. What would have happened if the village wasn't there? What would have happened if Deidara had more clay? Deidara still wins the outcome.

    Pain has to hold back, can't kill someone he wants alive.

    Too much pride for Naruto fans. Too much pride for Gaara fans.
     
         
    Last edited by Buu; 04-05-2009 at 02:54 AM.

  11. #11
    Member sageofmyobokuzan's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    why do people say naruto was at full strength??? he wasnt just sitting at myobokuzan doin nothin, he was training his ass off everyday all day he was there. and ya he was training with natural energy, but that was only at the very end. most of the scenes we saw of him training naruto looked beat up and exhausted. so no offense but i dont buy the whole pain wasnt at full power so this fight was unfair, if pain's power was soo limited then how was he able to use chibaku tensei??? and also, pain didnt have to destroy the village, he chose to, its no different than if a soldier at war decides to empty a whole clip into an already dead enemy, only to encounter a new enemy with more ammo, pain chose to stupidly waste chakra, thats his fault, and naruto wasnt at full power either, this only adds to naruto's greatness, the fact that he defeated pain after just having perfected frs, and taking sage mode farther than any bfore him is equal to goku defeating freeza in my eyes, just writing that, and after seeing this whole battle go down the last couple weeks has just blown my mind, i mean how long have we been waiting for naruto to quit being a knucklehead and wat do u know he finally has stopped!!!! he 100% badass now!!! although does anyone else think kishi is really trying to drag this fight out??? naruto had pain wit the 2nd frs last chapter, but instead kishi has him create shadow clones to try and grab pain wtf?!?!? i mean really kishi???
     
         
    Last edited by sageofmyobokuzan; 04-05-2009 at 06:24 AM.

  12. #12
    the Voodoo Child Buu's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakdaddy View Post
    well, considering Pein knows his limits much better than a little kid who has just graduated from Sage academy...i would say you're comparing apples to oranges.
    1)Naruto has not been developing multiple jutsus like Pein has.
    2)He doesn't even know his secondary affinity and Pein has them all.
    3)Pein's been developing his abilities more as an assassin while Naruto more for defensive/protective purposes (i'm talking mentality, not jutsus). So, his plan to attack Konoha was WELL-THOUGHT out and planned...and what was his purpose?? Deva-station and capture of jinchuuriki.

    Now, if anything, Pein has greater abilities (that he knows how to use), much much much more planning, and a desire for destruction (his desire matches Naruto's desire for saving people).

    Naruto, on the other hand, is taking brand new abilities (testing them out as he goes) and guessing how to counter a foe with unlimited techniques. He's also young and immature (although he's growing fight by fight; situation by situation). He's much too young and raw to understand his abilities to the extent that Pein should know his, YET...He's gonna beat Pein anyway.

    Pein should be the obvious victor in this fight but Naruto is probably the greatest fighting genius that Konoha has (note: not mental genius, not planning genius, not vocal genius, not philosophical genius...he's an action genius which in the psychology world of Myers-Briggs...he's a judging type who knows how to make decisions in the moment that usually bring victory.)

    Now bring on some NaruHina babies!
    Naruto is a savant at training and fighting.
    Naruto isn't a normal shinobi. He's able to use the KB to give him more experience in a short amount of time. KB is like the hyperbolic time chamber for Naruto. If Pain took a sage class, you think he can graduate as fast as Naruto did? Or Kakashi or anyone for that matter? So how could you say, "just graduated from Sage academy?" Has anything to do with the outcome of the fight.

    1. You can't measure that type of potential and count it as a factor. Anyone can learn more.
    2. because of 1
    3. that doesn't make sense. If you think about it everyone is like apples and oranges. You'll never get exactly the same thing. You take what they got and have them fight.
     
         
    Last edited by Buu; 04-05-2009 at 03:18 AM.

  13. #13
    Just Copied Hell TheCopyNinja's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckworks View Post
    Naruto is a savant at training and fighting.
    Naruto isn't a normal shinobi. He's able to use the KB to give him more experience in a short amount of time. KB is like the hyperbolic time chamber for Naruto. If Pain took a sage class, you think he can graduate as fast as Naruto did? Or Kakashi or anyone for that matter? So how could you say, "just graduated from Sage academy?" Has anything to do with the outcome of the fight.

    1. You can't measure that type of potential and count it as a factor. Anyone can learn more.
    2. because of 1
    3. that doesn't make sense. If you think about it everyone is like apples and oranges. You'll never get exactly the same thing. You take what they got and have them fight.

    Naruto didn't use KB when he was learning the Sage Arts go back and read 414 through 418 he did on his own.
     
         

  14. #14
    Member naturo9's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    what about naruto's full power? since he is only 16 y/o now, i am not saying this is his full power yet. he will be more powerful if he has more techniques and battle experience againts big bad shinobis, like kakuzu and pain. what about kyuubi's full power? what will naruto be if he will able to use kyuubi's full power plus his new techniques and battle experience? btw, how old is pain now?
     
         

  15. #15
    Member Hakdaddy's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckworks View Post
    Naruto is a savant at training and fighting.
    Naruto isn't a normal shinobi. He's able to use the KB to give him more experience in a short amount of time. KB is like the hyperbolic time chamber for Naruto. If Pain took a sage class, you think he can graduate as fast as Naruto did? Or Kakashi or anyone for that matter? So how could you say, "just graduated from Sage academy?" Has anything to do with the outcome of the fight.

    1. You can't measure that type of potential and count it as a factor. Anyone can learn more.
    2. because of 1
    3. that doesn't make sense. If you think about it everyone is like apples and oranges. You'll never get exactly the same thing. You take what they got and have them fight.
    of course Pein wouldn't graduate as fast, but now you're solidifying my previous point. ROFL's original point was that Naruto was no match for Pein and I disagreed. I agree with the above point as well that Naruto has NOT had time to imbibe all of his newfound potential as well as recover physically. He is still a boy and even though he "mastered" the sage arts...at least what Fuka was teaching him...he's still young and he's not had any enemies to fight in sage mode yet.

    I teach many kids/adults in my street fighting class every week. They may learn a technique well but without applying it against a bona fide opponent, it would be difficult to say they can win against a new foe they've never seen.

    Pein has had numerous opportunities to fight other opponents and mature his skills.

    My original point was that Naruto IS more than a match for Pein (healthy, tired, whatever).

    You also misconstrue the object of my statement about apples/oranges in your 3rd point. But, no big deal.

    I'm just ready for the next manga to make up for this week's lack of worthwhile outcome.
     
         

  16. #16
    Member phaco's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    I made a posts somewhere about this too a couple of weeks ago, someone told me(can't remember the name) that even if yahiko could've use is shinra tensei at the beginning of the fight, he couldn't use it anyway while the six bodies are on formation because it would blow away the other bodies too...

    not sure if it really works on is other bodies, like on 434, the last pein was still laying at the same place...

    btw sorry for my english :P
     
         

  17. #17
    Garra Of The Desert meercy's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckworks View Post
    Just like Gaara vs Deidara.
    Deidara minimum on clay against a Jinchuuriki Gaara on his turf.
    With sand everywhere, Deidara was able to win by taking advantage by attacking the village. What would have happened if the village wasn't there? What would have happened if Deidara had more clay? Deidara still wins the outcome.

    Pain has to hold back, can't kill someone he wants alive.

    Too much pride for Naruto fans. Too much pride for Gaara fans.
    deidara would have lost if the village wasnt there....
    garra was a cold killa even tho he was changin....
    that whole fight he was thinkin of the village...
    plus he still had his bijuu... deidara wouldnt have got close to victory...lol...

    but as far as pein not usin his full power....
    its like this... if pein come in shira tensi off top....
    yea hes gone hurt who eva the fighter is if there not ready....
    espicially sumbody like naruto.... but thatsa diff story since he wasnt tryin to kill him...

    now j-man on the other hand....
    i jus flat foot think he eithier would have evaded the move...
    or used a technique to evade the move....
    it really boils down too... its alot of scenarios for these situations....
    i could go all day, and besides i dont think pein is impressive (not bein bias eithier)
     
         

  18. #18
    the Voodoo Child Buu's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCopyNinja View Post
    Naruto didn't use KB when he was learning the Sage Arts go back and read 414 through 418 he did on his own.
    LoL
    my bad

    but I'm right still right, the principle of what I was saying. Him right out of Sage class is probably the only correct excuse.
     
         

  19. #19
    the Voodoo Child Buu's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by meercy View Post
    deidara would have lost if the village wasnt there....
    garra was a cold killa even tho he was changin....
    that whole fight he was thinkin of the village...
    plus he still had his bijuu... deidara wouldnt have got close to victory...lol...

    but as far as pein not usin his full power....
    its like this... if pein come in shira tensi off top....
    yea hes gone hurt who eva the fighter is if there not ready....
    espicially sumbody like naruto.... but thatsa diff story since he wasnt tryin to kill him...

    now j-man on the other hand....
    i jus flat foot think he eithier would have evaded the move...
    or used a technique to evade the move....
    it really boils down too... its alot of scenarios for these situations....
    i could go all day, and besides i dont think pein is impressive (not bein bias eithier)

    I totally agree with you about deidara, if came in with the amont of clay that he did and just him and gaara, no one else. I think gaara would have cleaned his clock. Plus, I give a bias extra credit to anyone who is a Kage.
     
         

  20. #20
    the Voodoo Child Buu's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakdaddy View Post
    of course Pein wouldn't graduate as fast, but now you're solidifying my previous point. ROFL's original point was that Naruto was no match for Pein and I disagreed. I agree with the above point as well that Naruto has NOT had time to imbibe all of his newfound potential as well as recover physically. He is still a boy and even though he "mastered" the sage arts...at least what Fuka was teaching him...he's still young and he's not had any enemies to fight in sage mode yet.

    I teach many kids/adults in my street fighting class every week. They may learn a technique well but without applying it against a bona fide opponent, it would be difficult to say they can win against a new foe they've never seen.

    Pein has had numerous opportunities to fight other opponents and mature his skills.

    My original point was that Naruto IS more than a match for Pein (healthy, tired, whatever).

    You also misconstrue the object of my statement about apples/oranges in your 3rd point. But, no big deal.

    I'm just ready for the next manga to make up for this week's lack of worthwhile outcome.

    I was just commenting about your pros and cons about naruto's disadvantages thas all.
    I knew before I posted, I should have deleted the quotes I wasn't referring to.
    I like your point though.
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    jiraiyah has battled with pein at full power
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by meercy View Post
    deidara would have lost if the village wasnt there....
    garra was a cold killa even tho he was changin....
    that whole fight he was thinkin of the village...
    plus he still had his bijuu... deidara wouldnt have got close to victory...lol...
    That's a fair chance. Deidara used Gara's weakness against him and made him waste his chakra for village as well. But he was also able to panetrate Gara's ultimate defence. ....

    but as far as pein not usin his full power....
    its like this... if pein come in shira tensi off top....
    yea hes gone hurt who eva the fighter is if there not ready....
    espicially sumbody like naruto.... but thatsa diff story since he wasnt tryin to kill him...
    Again, I agree with you. But, in Naruto verse, as in real world, there are never fights on equal grounds. Not even in Chunin exams.

    Peoples fighting skills include strategic thinking and plans. Pain also had an advantage- he didn't care for Konoha. Tsunade did. So she ended up using her chakra on the villagers defence instead of punching Pain. he did the similar thing as Deidara.

    He had the advantage of surprise attack and power of rinnegan. We have seen that only Kakashi and Tsunade were in the village among top Konoha shinabies. Uchihas are dead or on the run. Huga's were away with the exception of Hinata. Even Team Gai and Yamato, Sai and Anko were absent. Kurenai was Pregnanat and Asuma dead.

    Pain got advantage of the damage Orochimaru had done to the village before- less shinbis and top ranking had to cover for less important missions too.

    It is a war...

    Naruto also came back from his training. He has been practicing day and night. Pa toad even didn't know about his night training. Naruto didn't even get to perfect his traiing. he had learnt frog kata but pa toad said he needed practice. It's not like he had any advantage being fresh. I wonder if he didn't feel some kind of jet lag when summonned like that?

    Naruto is a kid, Nagato and adult experience shinobi at his prime. One who was leader of several experience shinbis.. They didn't know about Madara but let Pain lead them.


    now j-man on the other hand....
    i jus flat foot think he eithier would have evaded the move...
    or used a technique to evade the move....
    it really boils down too... its alot of scenarios for these situations....
    i could go all day, and besides i dont think pein is impressive (not bein bias eithier)
    Jiraiya was on disadvantage. He was inside the enemy hideout. The rain was Pain's chakra made and he could locate any intrusion almost instantly. pain knew about Jiraiaya's fighting method, Jiraiya didn't know what was the game plan until it was too late.He didn't get much time once he got trapped.

    Jiraiya could still escape though. Pa frog suggested that. He chose to stay in and die... Maybe if he would have left - pa toad could reverse summon with him if nothing else, he could fight another day...

    Asuma was at a disadvantage with Hidan, with proper planning, Shikamru was able to take him out....

    It is comapring apples with oranges....
     
         

  23. #23
    Member Chakra's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    I'm sure if Jiraiya had info on Pain from the beginning of the fight, he would have won. Naruto had an advantage of pre-gained knowledge thanks to Jiraiya.
     
         

  24. #24
    Fedor pwns roflcopter's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Even assuming that Naruto was drained off chakra too, because okay, he has sage chakra but anyway...
    Pein couldnt use all six of his bodies. I mean The God realm makes all the bodies work perfectly together, he could protect them from beeing hit by rasengan and so on.
    Naruto still fought only 1 body, not the 6 bodies, besides we havent seen all the bodies using all their techniques ;/
     
         

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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    unfair? and fighting with 6 dead bodies is fair?
     
         

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