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  1. #26
    Senior Member Dean-Winchester's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Thats what I mean and thats what came to my mind while i was reading another post about Pein vs Naruto.

    We all know that Jiraya almost defeated Pein right. Like almost... he defeated 3 bodies who were NOTHING like Pein, I mean Pein didnt even use Shinra tensei, and if he did, Jiraya wouldnt even have a chance to lay a FInger on him, i guess.
    I mean, to be honest JIraya took only 1 body down, the other were just fine after defeating him. Pein was jsut testing his power n so on;/ I realluy dont udnerstand people who say " J-man would take out Pein if pein wouldnt cut his arm from behind" but think about God realms power, Jiraya could be SHinratenseyed-in-the ass.


    Then, there goes another Pein fight, Pein vs Naruto. ALlright, Pein lost now BUT. He has been injured when he started to fight Naruto. Do you remember ?

    1) He already used a lotof chakra fighting Kakashi and other people + he used that big SHinra tensei which prolly drained half of his chakra.
    2) When Naruto started to fight Pein, The main and the strongest Body was disabled. I dont see how could Naruto take out the 5 bodys if GOd realm would have his Shinra Tensei back then.
    3) He didnt use that weird eye technique against Naruto, which he used agains tJIraya and Kakashi, when a person loses his senses for a while and is unable to concentrate and attack.

    SO to sum up, i wanna say that Pein vs Naruto is unfair. NAruto was full power with frogs and Pein was already coughing blood from Shinra tensei with 1 partially disabled(main) body.

    He didnt use his power alltogether against Naruto, as he could do it with the help of God realm.
    Thats like fighting a person who can use a leg, then a hand, then another leg, then another hand, without moving them silmountaniously.

    SO whats important, Naruto is still no match for Pein.
    meh dats ur opinon
     
         

  2. #27
    Member naturo9's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chakra View Post
    I'm sure if Jiraiya had info on Pain from the beginning of the fight, he would have won. Naruto had an advantage of pre-gained knowledge thanks to Jiraiya.
    naruto could use hi kage bushin to know his opponent just like he did with kakuzu.

    j-man did fought the first 3 pain, then 6 but the other 3 pain did not use their full power against j-man. we only see their full power when they invaded konoha. so j-man info was not complete.
     
         
    Last edited by naturo9; 04-06-2009 at 11:28 PM.

  3. #28
    Fedor pwns roflcopter's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ady View Post
    unfair? and fighting with 6 dead bodies is fair?
    ?

    thats his abiity. SHaringan is cheap too, but thats a power. IF you dong use ure power means ure at not full state ;/
     
         

  4. #29
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    ?

    thats his abiity. SHaringan is cheap too, but thats a power. IF you dong use ure power means ure at not full state ;/
    collecting corpses and filling them with those rods.... let's say I'm not a fan of this method..
     
         

  5. #30
    Head of D.U.M.B Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasuke Uzumaki View Post
    I wonder if he's still no match for Pain. I agree with you, Pain was already tired, but it was his fault: such an experienced ninja should be able to calculate he needs to keep chakra for the remaining fight.

    He used great amounts of chakra just to find out info, to show how godly he is, instead of just gathering the info in another manner (sort of spying - can't Pain make a transformation jutsu as the rest of ninjas?), and then looking for the 9 tails. Besides, he was certain he was capable of fighting the 9-tails.

    And Naruto coming back from 8-tails in sage mode shows they are at least at the same level. It's not to defend Naruto, what I mean is that Naruto was not exhausted after turning 8-tails, and that is as tiresome as attacking the village as Pain did.
    Exactly.
    A fight cannot be termed "unfair" if the "God" of Rain Village, possessor of the RIn'negan and second best Akatsuki member cannot utilise his chakra properly.

    All's fair in love and war.
     
         

  6. #31
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    those clones really give advantage to naruto..a big advantage..
    if j-man can do it too, sure j-man will win
    so sad j-man died...
     
         

  7. #32
    Member sageofmyobokuzan's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    ?

    thats his abiity. SHaringan is cheap too, but thats a power. IF you dong use ure power means ure at not full state ;/
    so then pain was at a full state then because he was using his power to control six bodies at once while fighting naruto??
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by sageofmyobokuzan View Post
    so then pain was at a full state then because he was using his power to control six bodies at once while fighting naruto??
    Huh? my point was he didnt. Main body was disabled. Naruto woudnt be able to kill these bodies so fast with Shinra tensei slapping him allthewy.
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Huh? my point was he didnt. Main body was disabled. Naruto woudnt be able to kill these bodies so fast with Shinra tensei slapping him allthewy.
    wouldnt shinra tensei have just slapped the other bodies away too?? and its not like naruto killed god realm bfore he ever got to use shinra tensei on him, the last like 6 chapter pain has had shinra tensei and he still lost. even if he had been able to use it at the beginning of the the fight with naruto, doesnt mean he would have, tactically speaking he had 5 other bodies that would have been caught in the blast of his shinra tensei, so it actually would have been harder for him to use it, and my logic for saying he wouldnt have is this: before he destroyed konoha, nagato made sure all the other bodies were outside the blast radius, he wouldnt have just started using shinra tensei every 5 seconds while fight naruto at the beginning of the battle with 5 of his bodies right there. nagato seems to have used every tech in his arsenal against naruto and yet he still lost, thats the whole point kishi is trying to get across to the readers, Naruto is not a little kid anymore, he is 100% b.a. now!! he is up in the big leagues, he just beat the rinnegan. He truly has surpassed his sensei, and people might get mad at that and say no way but guys he has, not in experience(but as of now thats impossible since naruto is only 16) but in terms of power, and skill he has.
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by sageofmyobokuzan View Post
    wouldnt shinra tensei have just slapped the other bodies away too?? and its not like naruto killed god realm bfore he ever got to use shinra tensei on him, the last like 6 chapter pain has had shinra tensei and he still lost. even if he had been able to use it at the beginning of the the fight with naruto, doesnt mean he would have, tactically speaking he had 5 other bodies that would have been caught in the blast of his shinra tensei, so it actually would have been harder for him to use it, and my logic for saying he wouldnt have is this: before he destroyed konoha, nagato made sure all the other bodies were outside the blast radius, he wouldnt have just started using shinra tensei every 5 seconds while fight naruto at the beginning of the battle with 5 of his bodies right there. nagato seems to have used every tech in his arsenal against naruto and yet he still lost, thats the whole point kishi is trying to get across to the readers, Naruto is not a little kid anymore, he is 100% b.a. now!! he is up in the big leagues, he just beat the rinnegan. He truly has surpassed his sensei, and people might get mad at that and say no way but guys he has, not in experience(but as of now thats impossible since naruto is only 16) but in terms of power, and skill he has.

    Pain prolly knows how to use SHinra Tensei correctly not to hard his bodies, otherwise he wouldnt be Pein lol. The true powr of Pein lies within his 6 bodies woring together, whether it is God realm or Demon realm it doesnt matter. Pein has got absolute defence with these bodies. At his current state when facing Naruto one and the main body was disabled.
    Nooone knows what and how would fight go with that body beeing active.
    He could use Bansho tenin to defend Bodies From RS, he COuld use SHinra Tensei so that Naruto couldnt Hit that Muscle man. But at that time he was weaknd... he couldnt.
    The point of Pein is not to use every sngle tech in his arsenal. Most importanly is to use all th movs simountaneously. When u have an ability to fight with hand and leg, do you fight with leg only, then with hand only, or do you mix these organs as your defence/attack ?
    Same goes with Pein. its like fighting with your hanmd arm being disabled ..
     
         

  11. #36
    Member sageofmyobokuzan's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Pain prolly knows how to use SHinra Tensei correctly not to hard his bodies, otherwise he wouldnt be Pein lol. The true powr of Pein lies within his 6 bodies woring together, whether it is God realm or Demon realm it doesnt matter. Pein has got absolute defence with these bodies. At his current state when facing Naruto one and the main body was disabled.
    Nooone knows what and how would fight go with that body beeing active.
    He could use Bansho tenin to defend Bodies From RS, he COuld use SHinra Tensei so that Naruto couldnt Hit that Muscle man. But at that time he was weaknd... he couldnt.
    The point of Pein is not to use every sngle tech in his arsenal. Most importanly is to use all th movs simountaneously. When u have an ability to fight with hand and leg, do you fight with leg only, then with hand only, or do you mix these organs as your defence/attack ?
    Same goes with Pein. its like fighting with your hanmd arm being disabled ..
    if thats true and pain is skilled enough to pick and choose who gets hit by shinra tensei then why did he not use it against jman?? my guess is that he didnt want to destroy his own village...and we know he didnt use it bcause pa toad didnt know about it, we first found out about shinra tensei after kakashi battled him, so personally i still feel naruto would have found some way to defeat pain
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Pain, too, hasn't fought Naruto at full power...the fox is sealed in him...he is one with it ( even though His Evilness is as stubborn as the word itself )...Full power Naruto is a Naruto who is able to control Fox's power...No one has fought that one yet...Not even Pain...
    ...So in my opinion...this battle was fair...Naruto wasn't at full power and so was Pain and if Pain got beaten by Naruto, it means Naruto was stronger...full power or not...
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by sageofmyobokuzan View Post
    if thats true and pain is skilled enough to pick and choose who gets hit by shinra tensei then why did he not use it against jman?? my guess is that he didnt want to destroy his own village...and we know he didnt use it bcause pa toad didnt know about it, we first found out about shinra tensei after kakashi battled him, so personally i still feel naruto would have found some way to defeat pain

    Pein didnt have to use SHinra Tensei against J-man cuz he was already defeated by other techniques..



    Pain, too, hasn't fought Naruto at full power...the fox is sealed in him...he is one with it ( even though His Evilness is as stubborn as the word itself )...Full power Naruto is a Naruto who is able to control Fox's power...No one has fought that one yet...Not even Pain...
    ...So in my opinion...this battle was fair...Naruto wasn't at full power and so was Pain and if Pain got beaten by Naruto, it means Naruto was stronger...full power or not...


    Well some time ago I have already made my point about it. When Naruto will learn how to control Kyyubi - its his power. Now, the Kyyubio is a different creature, and if it relases 9t ( u say full power) then Naruto will not exist anymore... The only reason to use FOx power in this fight was to get rid of chakra blade in his hands ( huh naruto was alrady defeated).
    Then at his "almost Full power" ( as u say) he had 2 choices: whether to DIE and let fox destroy KOnoha or to supress FOX and go FULL POWER sage mode again.

    SO again. Right now, Kyybi is still a different creature that is Living in Naruto, which can be used to get a slight advantage for some amount of time ( like regeneration or freeing from some technique) but then it should be suppressed, otherwise Narutos gonna die. I think ugotmy point
     
         

  14. #39
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    naruto was full power against pein and his 6 paths
     
         

  15. #40
    Destined Child uzmarvel's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    SO to sum up, i wanna say that Pein vs Naruto is unfair. NAruto was full power with frogs and Pein was already coughing blood from Shinra tensei with 1 partially disabled(main) body.

    He didnt use his power alltogether against Naruto, as he could do it with the help of God realm.
    Thats like fighting a person who can use a leg, then a hand, then another leg, then another hand, without moving them silmountaniously.

    SO whats important, Naruto is still no match for Pein.
    Good ideas, I like those but I didn't like the last part where you say that Naruto is no match. Damn he is. What would have happened if naruto transformed to 8-tails earlier. Instead of that one left Yahiko, all of them would be running away.

    Fighting with frogs means that power belongs to you like Pein fighting with their summons. Pein had more summons than Naruto did and you know that pretty good.

    I am partially agree that Naruto didn't won against Pein single handed but I don't think the fight was 'unfair'. It was fair and Naruto kicks ass. He has already triumph - Fox Mode. He just needs other smart ways to defeat his enemies.
     
         

  16. #41
    Member Agent Secrecy's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseygaming View Post
    naruto was full power against pein and his 6 paths
    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Pein didnt have to use SHinra Tensei against J-man cuz he was already defeated by other techniques..





    Well some time ago I have already made my point about it. When Naruto will learn how to control Kyyubi - its his power. Now, the Kyyubio is a different creature, and if it relases 9t ( u say full power) then Naruto will not exist anymore... The only reason to use FOx power in this fight was to get rid of chakra blade in his hands ( huh naruto was alrady defeated).
    Then at his "almost Full power" ( as u say) he had 2 choices: whether to DIE and let fox destroy KOnoha or to supress FOX and go FULL POWER sage mode again.

    SO again. Right now, Kyybi is still a different creature that is Living in Naruto, which can be used to get a slight advantage for some amount of time ( like regeneration or freeing from some technique) but then it should be suppressed, otherwise Narutos gonna die. I think ugotmy point
    Talking about a 'fair battle' is one in which both sides concerned are at their 'highest possible' maximum ( full power )...In Pain's case, there was God Realm who was...'deactivated' at the time and Nagato having used up 'so much chakra' as Konan put it...in Naruto's case, he hasn't even learned how to reach his 'highest possible' maximum which is, of course, a controlled Kyuubi state ( where, like with Killerbee, the number of tails has no difference in the amount of control he has. though I hope Kishi will not have Naruto transform into Kyuubi like Killerbee and his beast, no matter how much control Naruto has in that state.) ...So, in fact, this battle WAS fair because none of them ( Pain and Naruto ) were at their full power, that is, their 'highest possible' maximum )...Pain was cool, very cool, strong, very strong...but he was indeed weaker than Naruto...
    ...
    Now concerning Kyuubi...
    ...Have you ever been at war with your own body? Your head tells you one thing and your groin seems to be doing another...just because it's not listening to your rational thoughts doesn't mean it's still not a part of your body...
    ...
    ...It's the same with Kyuubi and Naruto...
     
         
    Last edited by Agent Secrecy; 04-09-2009 at 10:32 PM.

  17. #42
    Fedor pwns roflcopter's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Secrecy View Post
    Talking about a 'fair battle' is one in which both sides concerned are at their 'highest possible' maximum ( full power )...In Pain's case, there was God Realm who was...'deactivated' at the time and Nagato having used up 'so much chakra' as Konan put it...in Naruto's case, he hasn't even learned how to reach his 'highest possible' maximum which is, of course, a controlled Kyuubi state ( where, like with Killerbee, the number of tails has no difference in the amount of control he has. though I hope Kishi will not have Naruto transform into Kyuubi like Killerbee and his beast, no matter how much control Naruto has in that state.) ...So, in fact, this battle WAS fair because none of them ( Pain and Naruto ) were at their full power, that is, their 'highest possible' maximum )...Pain was cool, very cool, strong, very strong...but he was indeed weaker than Naruto...
    ...
    Now concerning Kyuubi...
    ...Have you ever been at war with your own body? Your head tells you one thing and your groin seems to be doing another...just because it's not listening to your rational thoughts doesn't mean it's still not a part of your body...
    ...
    ...It's the same with Kyuubi and Naruto...



    Highest possible maximum huh? Wtf are u talking about? It is possible for me to lift 200 kg however i can not do it right now but it is indeed possible. Still my FULL POWER at normal state is 140. Not more, not less. If i dont eat or dont sleep for a day, my power will drop to 100-110 - "Pein has used up a lot of chakra"

    Naruto lifts 300 now. IT IS MAYBE possible for him to lift 600 but he cant do it right now... right now his FULL POWER at normal state is 300, how cant u get that guys... IF IF IF he controls kybbi his highest possible maximum is 600... but now at his normal state is still 300...

    Assuming Pein could lift 300 too, but at weakened state (no sleep etc here - use of chakra, disabld body) he could lift only 250. mEANS his full power at normal state is still 300 ;/ But he wasnt at that state and i already explained why.

    So the fair fight is when the two meet at their full power at normal state - with sleep and food ;/


    Now concerning Kyuubi...
    ...Have you ever been at war with your own body? Your head tells you one thing and your groin seems to be doing another...just because it's not listening to your rational thoughts doesn't mean it's still not a part of your body...Now concerning Kyuubi...
    ...Have you ever been at war with your own body? Your head tells you one thing and your groin seems to be doing another...just because it's not listening to your rational thoughts doesn't mean it's still not a part of your body...

    1) You will never hit friends
    2) You are still somehow under control, if you're absolutely not u're a psycho and should be isolated from society.
    3) War? No, i havent. Or do you mean fights? Yes I have, I have p[articipated in many challenges and championships. The body doesnt move itself, its adrenaline and stress which allows us to do things we would nver do before/ we dont want. But still to some extend. Kyybi however is absolutely different creature that controls body and u absolutely cant feel what you do.
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    roflcopter i agree 100%

    Ive been saying for ages now narutos opponents never use their full strength against him.

    Pain was weakened and didnt use all his jutsu against naruto, naruto always has an easy time with enemies, i say this often and everyone disagrees, but its nice to see someone who finally sees what i see lol
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by roflcopter View Post
    Highest possible maximum huh? Wtf are u talking about? It is possible for me to lift 200 kg however i can not do it right now but it is indeed possible. Still my FULL POWER at normal state is 140. Not more, not less. If i dont eat or dont sleep for a day, my power will drop to 100-110 - "Pein has used up a lot of chakra"

    Naruto lifts 300 now. IT IS MAYBE possible for him to lift 600 but he cant do it right now... right now his FULL POWER at normal state is 300, how cant u get that guys... IF IF IF he controls kybbi his highest possible maximum is 600... but now at his normal state is still 300...

    Assuming Pein could lift 300 too, but at weakened state (no sleep etc here - use of chakra, disabld body) he could lift only 250. mEANS his full power at normal state is still 300 ;/ But he wasnt at that state and i already explained why.

    So the fair fight is when the two meet at their full power at normal state - with sleep and food ;/





    1) You will never hit friends
    2) You are still somehow under control, if you're absolutely not u're a psycho and should be isolated from society.
    3) War? No, i havent. Or do you mean fights? Yes I have, I have p[articipated in many challenges and championships. The body doesnt move itself, its adrenaline and stress which allows us to do things we would nver do before/ we dont want. But still to some extend. Kyybi however is absolutely different creature that controls body and u absolutely cant feel what you do.
    I understand you perfectly...you are very correct...and so am I...this thread said 'full power' without any more specifications...Which gives room for us to assume the 'full power' was a state where Pain used all his jutsus ( with all his bodies functioning properly ) and had all his chakra available while Naruto could control Kyuubi...That is exactly what I have assumed, "full power" of both sides...so I say this fight was fair because Kishi...removed both advantages from Pain ( chakra, jutsus and deactivated God Realm ) and Naruto ( could not control Kyuubi )...that, I think, put them on the same level...
    ...and about Kyuubi...
    ...I said "at war with your body"...pick out the contextual meaning of those words...and I also said "groin"...look it up and I think you would understand...
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Well then you should have put it as "full possible power" for Naruto. Then I agree.
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by isthatnecessary View Post
    That's a fair chance. Deidara used Gara's weakness against him and made him waste his chakra for village as well. But he was also able to panetrate Gara's ultimate defence. ....



    Again, I agree with you. But, in Naruto verse, as in real world, there are never fights on equal grounds. Not even in Chunin exams.

    Peoples fighting skills include strategic thinking and plans. Pain also had an advantage- he didn't care for Konoha. Tsunade did. So she ended up using her chakra on the villagers defence instead of punching Pain. he did the similar thing as Deidara.

    He had the advantage of surprise attack and power of rinnegan. We have seen that only Kakashi and Tsunade were in the village among top Konoha shinabies. Uchihas are dead or on the run. Huga's were away with the exception of Hinata. Even Team Gai and Yamato, Sai and Anko were absent. Kurenai was Pregnanat and Asuma dead.

    Pain got advantage of the damage Orochimaru had done to the village before- less shinbis and top ranking had to cover for less important missions too.

    It is a war...

    Naruto also came back from his training. He has been practicing day and night. Pa toad even didn't know about his night training. Naruto didn't even get to perfect his traiing. he had learnt frog kata but pa toad said he needed practice. It's not like he had any advantage being fresh. I wonder if he didn't feel some kind of jet lag when summonned like that?

    Naruto is a kid, Nagato and adult experience shinobi at his prime. One who was leader of several experience shinbis.. They didn't know about Madara but let Pain lead them.




    Jiraiya was on disadvantage. He was inside the enemy hideout. The rain was Pain's chakra made and he could locate any intrusion almost instantly. pain knew about Jiraiaya's fighting method, Jiraiya didn't know what was the game plan until it was too late.He didn't get much time once he got trapped.

    Jiraiya could still escape though. Pa frog suggested that. He chose to stay in and die... Maybe if he would have left - pa toad could reverse summon with him if nothing else, he could fight another day...

    Asuma was at a disadvantage with Hidan, with proper planning, Shikamru was able to take him out....

    It is comapring apples with oranges....
    well i agree wit u simply because.... u understand anything can happen in naruto world...
    Jus like i do.... So my thinkin actions is based on real world naruto....
    which usually leads me to disagree wit alot of ppl....

    but on a side note.... i hate for the writers to display a characters skills so greatly....
    to turn around and loose so easily.... that also affect my decisions on alot of things....
     
         

  22. #47
    Grimorium Verum silenceofthelambs's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    As much as everyone liked to see Naruto win and avenge those who were killed by Pain, it is obvious that Pain wasn't at his full power when fighting Naruto. Naruto came back seconds after god realm demolished Konoha with Shinra Tensei, and Konan said that the bodies would need time to recover. Also, considering god realm was powerless for the first part of the battle, this put Pain at a disadvantage, allowing Naruto to dominate early on. Even with that disadvantage, god realm managed to defeat Naruto in chapter 437 by stabbing him in multiple places with the black chakra receivers, thus preventing Naruto from moving. Fortunately, Hinata arrived at just the right time, and by being defeated by Pain, allowed Naruto to transform, out of anger, into his six-tailed state. If Hinata weren't there to take the fall in front of Naruto, he would have definitely lost the fight. So yes, no one has truly fought Pain at his full power yet, but just maybe...someone might.
     
         

  23. #48
    Member 6th hokage's Avatar
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    Re: Noone has fought full power Pein yet.

    apart from the 3rd point (pain did use his 'eye tech' ie overpowering other's chakra with his own), u r right on the money. i(and others) have been posting similar comments in MH and there is almost a consensus abt this. frankly this is quite obvious. one more thing is, pain had to get naruto alive which is much more difficult. after god pain regained his power, he had few chances to kill naruto.

    anyway, this is not to undermine naruto character fan. bcos i am one of them. but lets call spade a spade. naruto is a 16 yr old kid, who has just had only a month of sage training, to think he is gonna destroy(at this point) the strongest ninja(when full powered) with strongest eyes is just wishful thinking. kudos to kishi for making the story realistic and not cheap and giving pain handicap b4 the fight. and props to naruto to come this far, no other character(apart from madara maybe) wud have achieved this, against half/quarter strength of nagato.

    on the other side i dont agree with anti-naruto guys who think naruto always gets easy fight, bcos thats not the case. period.
     
         
    Last edited by 6th hokage; 04-17-2009 at 01:29 AM.

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