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  1. #41
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]all of you, good people, are full
    Again, how do you know Sasuke gained a new genjutsu with MS? Does anyone ever say anything about it in the manga? Sasuke himself never said the word Tsukoyomi. Danzo said Sasuke's illusion was inferior to Itachi's Tsukoyomi. You are the done who should re-read the manga. It's on chapter 478, so go ahead.

    If they were actually saying it together, that's something we won't know for sure until the anime gets to that point. Either that or we see something in the manga that could prove beyond any doubt that Sasuke has Tsukoyomi. Prove me wrong then. Give me some conclusive proof and I'll admit I'm wrong.
    why would danzo compare a normal sharingan genjutsu to tsukiyomi since it will obvisouly be inferior?! And why would sasuke activate his MS/EMS everytime he uses that "genjutsu". For all I know the only genjutsu that u need MS or EMS to perform is tsukiyomi. It has not been directly stated in the manga but implied. And regarding to the last chapter what do you think happened then?! Why would itachi use tsukiyomi to disactivate something you can do with a normal genjutsu (assuming sasuke didnt use tsuki)?! Why waste his chakra?!

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/480/4

    tobi implies sasuke used tuskiy. He could just have said "it is no match for itachi genjutsu" but he specifically says to itachi tsykiyomi. If that is not enough evidence for you. There is no other way to change your mind and let´s call it different opinion/way to read the manga.
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-09-2012 at 03:00 PM.

  2. #42
    Member Makz's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Wouldn't Danzo then say something like: "Your Tsukoyomi can't compare to Itachi's." ? He obviously wanted to piss off Sasuke, that's why he mentioned Itachi in the first place.

    About last chapter, I truly can't give you an answer because we don't know enough. All I can say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that ninja revived with Edo Tensei have unlimited chakra? I've never seen one of them getting tired or running out of chakra...
     
         
    Last edited by Makz; 05-09-2012 at 03:25 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    Wouldn't Danzo then say something like: "Your Tsukoyomi can't compare to Itachi's." ? He obviously wanted to piss off Sasuke, that's why he mentioned Itachi in the first place.

    About last chapter, I truly can't give you an answer because we don't know enough. All I can say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that ninja revived with Edo Tensei have unlimited chakra? I've never seen one of them getting tired or running out of chakra...
    the kage that fought gaara (2nd mizukage i believe) seemed to be low in chakra after using the jouky boy that´s why he decided to hide. In the last chapter, sasuke just asked itachi if he can still use susanoo which implies itachi is running out of chakra.
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-09-2012 at 03:10 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    All of you epically fail.!

    Sasuke has used tsukyomi on killer bee, danzo and just now in the last chapter.

    Sasuke and itachi both used tsukyomi to cancel out the genjutsu used by kabutos tayuya flute.

    This thread fails. Go reread the manga instead of giving false info noobs
    if thats the case, kishi wouldnt have taken the time to write something different for sasuke for the SAME jutsu used at the same time.... that indicates sasukes genjutsu is different from itachi's
     
         

  5. #45
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    Re: Sasuke doesn't have Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Animeisalive View Post
    if thats the case, kishi wouldnt have taken the time to write something different for sasuke for the SAME jutsu used at the same time.... that indicates sasukes genjutsu is different from itachi's
    he did not write something different what are you talking about?!
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    tobi implies sasuke used tuskiy. He could just have said "it is no match for itachi genjutsu" but he specifically says to itachi tsykiyomi. If that is not enough evidence for you. There is no other way to change your mind and let´s call it different opinion/way to read the manga.
    That's just semantics. When he says "Itachi's tsukiyomi" he is referring to the fact that Tsukiyomi is Itachi's technique. I'm pretty sure it's never been outwardly stated that Sasuke has this technique.

    It also doesn't make sense that Sasuke wouldn't use it in the current chapter.

    What I AM fairly certain of is that BOTH of Sasuke's eyes go into using Blaze Release. One eye casts Ameterasu, the other one controls it. Combined, you get Blaze release. I'm pretty sure this was pointed out by an observer during a fight somewhere around the 5 Kage Summit. Could be wrong though.
     
         

  7. #47
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    It is probably Tsukiyomi but because Sasuke cannot manipulate time in the genjutsu, his version is still like a normal genjutsu, hence why Kishi states Sharingan Genjutsu even though his MS is activated. Whereas because of Itachi full mastery of it, gets the full title.
     
         

  8. #48
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyB View Post
    That's just semantics. When he says "Itachi's tsukiyomi" he is referring to the fact that Tsukiyomi is Itachi's technique. I'm pretty sure it's never been outwardly stated that Sasuke has this technique.

    It also doesn't make sense that Sasuke wouldn't use it in the current chapter.

    What I AM fairly certain of is that BOTH of Sasuke's eyes go into using Blaze Release. One eye casts Ameterasu, the other one controls it. Combined, you get Blaze release. I'm pretty sure this was pointed out by an observer during a fight somewhere around the 5 Kage Summit. Could be wrong though.
    I am fairly positive he used tsukiy in today´s chapter. There are no bubbles around the words. In addition, they are written in a different font meaning those are titles given by kishi to explain that both bros used a genjutsu sharingan aka tsuki to counter kabuto genjutsu. Or you believe EMS genjutsu sasuke used it´s called sharingan genjutsu?! lol
     
         

  9. #49
    Member Makz's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    the kage that fought gaara (2nd mizukage i believe) seemed to be low in chakra after using the jouky boy that´s why he decided to hide. In the last chapter, sasuke just asked itachi if he can still use susanoo which implies itachi is running out of chakra.
    All I see is tobi referencing back to what Danzo said, he also said Sasuke's genjutsu was weak, maybe referring to a normal genjutsu? http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/480/6
    As you said, it's a matter of opinion so no point arguing about that.

    Having said that, my reasoning would explain that you do not need a normal sharingan to cast a normal genjutsu. I'm still not convinced about the chakra. I mean, he is casting Izanagi and that requires time and chakra I guess. Maybe Sasuke thought he couldn't do both at the same time? It's hard to say.

    P.S. I was reading the part with Jouki Boy. I couldn't find anything about his chakra levels, just that his technique has a side effect, making him really weak.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/557/4
     
         
    Last edited by Makz; 05-09-2012 at 03:26 PM.

  10. #50
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I am fairly positive he used tsukiy in today´s chapter. There are no bubbles around the words. In addition, they are written in a different font meaning those are titles given by kishi to explain that both bros used a genjutsu sharingan aka tsuki to counter kabuto genjutsu. Or you believe EMS genjutsu sasuke used it´s called sharingan genjutsu?! lol
    I don't think it's the name of his Genjutsu, but it's not Tsukyomi. Otherwise it would have said "Tsukyomi".

    Sasuke using a Genjutsu again:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11

    It doesn't say "Tsukyomi", just "Sharingan", so it isn't Tsukyomi - just some visual Genjutsu we don't know the name of.

    Not once have I seen the words "Tsukyomi" when Sasuke used it, yet in today's chapter we see "Tsukyomi" when Itachi used it.
     
         

  11. #51
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    All I see is tobi referencing back to what Danzo said, he also said Sasuke's genjutsu was weak, maybe referring to a normal genjutsu? http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/480/6
    As you said, it's a matter of opinion so no point arguing about that.

    Having said that, my reasoning would explain that you do not need a normal sharingan to cast a normal genjutsu. I'm still not convinced about the chakra. I mean, he is casting Izanagi and that requires time and chakra I guess. Maybe Sasuke thought he couldn't do both at the same time? It's hard to say.

    P.S. I was reading the part with Jouki Boy. I couldn't find anything about his chakra levels, just that his technique has a side effect, making him really weak.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/557/4
    yeah shinobis become weak when their chakra levels are low. well that´s what i thought at least (i can be wrong though). And i see the point you are trying to make but it just doesnt make sense to me why activate EMS/MS to use a regular genjutsu?!

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    I don't think it's the name of his Genjutsu, but it's not Tsukyomi. Otherwise it would have said "Tsukyomi".

    Sasuke using a Genjutsu again:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11

    It doesn't say "Tsukyomi", just "Sharingan", so it isn't Tsukyomi - just some visual Genjutsu we don't know the name of.

    Not once have I seen the words "Tsukyomi" when Sasuke used it, yet in today's chapter we see "Tsukyomi" when Itachi used it.
    so sasuke has an unnamed EMS/MS genjutsu?!
     
         

  12. #52
    Member Makz's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    I don't think it's the name of his Genjutsu, but it's not Tsukyomi. Otherwise it would have said "Tsukyomi".

    Sasuke using a Genjutsu again:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11
    Also, if he had a MS genjutsu, I'm sure he couldn't cast it with either eye. On your picture he casts genjutsu with his right eye, in the last chapter he does it with his left eye.
    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...0Myself/13.png
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    so sasuke has an unnamed EMS/MS genjutsu?!
    That, or he is using a regular Sharingan Genjutsu in MS/EMS mode.
     
         

  14. #54
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    Also, if he had a MS genjutsu, I'm sure he couldn't cast it with either eye. On your picture he casts genjutsu with his right eye, in the last chapter he does it with his left eye.
    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...0Myself/13.png
    I do not know about that because I did not keep track which eye itachi or sasuke use every time they amaterasu or use genjutsu or tsukiy.

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    That, or he is using a regular Sharingan Genjutsu in MS/EMS mode.
    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I am fairly positive he used tsukiy in today´s chapter. There are no bubbles around the words. In addition, they are written in a different font meaning those are titles given by kishi to explain that both bros used a genjutsu sharingan aka tsuki to counter kabuto genjutsu. Or you believe EMS genjutsu sasuke used it´s called sharingan genjutsu?! lol
    That is, in fact, exactly what I believe. There is nothing to suggest otherwise, Kishi can refer to it however he wants. If they both used Tsukiyomi, he would have written in. Probably in a single speech box between the two panels, as is often the case. Also, there are much weirder technique names out there than this.
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    yeah shinobis become weak when their chakra levels are low. well that´s what i thought at least (i can be wrong though). And i see the point you are trying to make but it just doesnt make sense to me why activate EMS/MS to use a regular genjutsu?!!
    The first time we saw Itachi use Susanoo he was 3 quarters dead. And he used it up until moments before his death. Ergo he could have used Tsukiyomi all the way up to his death as it requires less chakra.
     
         

  17. #57
    Member Makz's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I do not know about that because I did not keep track which eye itachi or sasuke use every time they amaterasu or use genjutsu or tsukiy.



    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
    Actually, it's the other way around with the eyes, I messed up, but the point is the same. :D

    Not that this is a valid argument, but Sasuke is known for spamming with MS/EMS for no reason. Also, I don't think the activation of the MS alone drains chakra, but using it's power. Normal genjutsu can be casted lots of times by normal sharingan users so MS users can cast them as well.
     
         

  18. #58
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
    As you said: you wouldn't be surprised if he did it. Remember, that was argubably the first time Sasuke was using his EMS (I'm not counting the one where he killed Zetsu with that amaterasu sword thing). I don't think Sasuke really cared at that point whether he was wasting chakra, because he has EMS and there were only a few zetsu clones to deal with, so it would be a perfect opportunity to try out his powers. Again, I did say it could just be an unnamed jutsu.

    I just can't see why Kishi would put "Genjutsu Sharingan" for Sasuke, and "Tsukiyomi" for Itachi. There is no need to say "Genjutsu Sharingan: Tsukiyomi", otherwise Kishi would have also said: "Sharingan: Amaterasu", but he only says "Amaterasu".

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/5

    Also observe how he only says "Amaterasu" once and it's clear that he is refering to both of them at that point. If both of them were using "Tsukyomi", why didn't he write the same thing for them as well?
     
         
    Last edited by choft; 05-09-2012 at 03:47 PM. Reason: I put in wrong manga link lol

  19. #59
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    We're still making assumptions about it. Sasuke doesn't always say "Chidori" when he does Chidori. Does that mean it's not Chidori?



    Sasuke already been shown he can use visual jutsus with just his regular sharingan in the fight with Itachi and Deidara.


    Whatever Genjutsu he's using, He uses his Mangekyo Sharingan to do it. It is also putting a stress on his eyes or head. Because he seem to hold his head or cover his eye every time he do it.







    Why didn't he just use his regular Sharingan?

    Here we can say, Sasuke was only testing his new powers. A possibility.

    Is it Tsukuyomi, Who knows?



    But what do we know?

    What we do know is:
    -It seems to require the Mangekyo Sharingan.
    -It puts stress on his eyes or head.

    At this point, No one is right nor wrong. Why? Because Kishi is leading us to believe he's using a weaker version of Tsukuyomi.

    Sasuke never said he wasn't using Tsukuyomi. Everything is all assumptions.
     
         

  20. #60
    Member iknowwhotobiis's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    Actually, it's the other way around with the eyes, I messed up, but the point is the same. :D

    Not that this is a valid argument, but Sasuke is known for spamming with MS/EMS for no reason. Also, I don't think the activation of the MS alone drains chakra, but using it's power. Normal genjutsu can be casted lots of times by normal sharingan users.
    Probably he can keep EMS up with mininal chakra usage. Well so i guess sasuke third skill is blaze release?!

    my stance in the argument has been explained by solo! thank you
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-09-2012 at 03:43 PM.

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