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  1. #51
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    All I see is tobi referencing back to what Danzo said, he also said Sasuke's genjutsu was weak, maybe referring to a normal genjutsu? http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/480/6
    As you said, it's a matter of opinion so no point arguing about that.

    Having said that, my reasoning would explain that you do not need a normal sharingan to cast a normal genjutsu. I'm still not convinced about the chakra. I mean, he is casting Izanagi and that requires time and chakra I guess. Maybe Sasuke thought he couldn't do both at the same time? It's hard to say.

    P.S. I was reading the part with Jouki Boy. I couldn't find anything about his chakra levels, just that his technique has a side effect, making him really weak.
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/557/4
    yeah shinobis become weak when their chakra levels are low. well that´s what i thought at least (i can be wrong though). And i see the point you are trying to make but it just doesnt make sense to me why activate EMS/MS to use a regular genjutsu?!

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    I don't think it's the name of his Genjutsu, but it's not Tsukyomi. Otherwise it would have said "Tsukyomi".

    Sasuke using a Genjutsu again:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11

    It doesn't say "Tsukyomi", just "Sharingan", so it isn't Tsukyomi - just some visual Genjutsu we don't know the name of.

    Not once have I seen the words "Tsukyomi" when Sasuke used it, yet in today's chapter we see "Tsukyomi" when Itachi used it.
    so sasuke has an unnamed EMS/MS genjutsu?!
     
         

  2. #52
    Member Makz's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    I don't think it's the name of his Genjutsu, but it's not Tsukyomi. Otherwise it would have said "Tsukyomi".

    Sasuke using a Genjutsu again:
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11
    Also, if he had a MS genjutsu, I'm sure he couldn't cast it with either eye. On your picture he casts genjutsu with his right eye, in the last chapter he does it with his left eye.
    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...0Myself/13.png
     
         

  3. #53
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    so sasuke has an unnamed EMS/MS genjutsu?!
    That, or he is using a regular Sharingan Genjutsu in MS/EMS mode.
     
         

  4. #54
    Member iknowwhotobiis's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    Also, if he had a MS genjutsu, I'm sure he couldn't cast it with either eye. On your picture he casts genjutsu with his right eye, in the last chapter he does it with his left eye.
    http://178.21.19.200/manga/mangas/Na...0Myself/13.png
    I do not know about that because I did not keep track which eye itachi or sasuke use every time they amaterasu or use genjutsu or tsukiy.

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    That, or he is using a regular Sharingan Genjutsu in MS/EMS mode.
    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
     
         

  5. #55
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I am fairly positive he used tsukiy in today´s chapter. There are no bubbles around the words. In addition, they are written in a different font meaning those are titles given by kishi to explain that both bros used a genjutsu sharingan aka tsuki to counter kabuto genjutsu. Or you believe EMS genjutsu sasuke used it´s called sharingan genjutsu?! lol
    That is, in fact, exactly what I believe. There is nothing to suggest otherwise, Kishi can refer to it however he wants. If they both used Tsukiyomi, he would have written in. Probably in a single speech box between the two panels, as is often the case. Also, there are much weirder technique names out there than this.
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    yeah shinobis become weak when their chakra levels are low. well that´s what i thought at least (i can be wrong though). And i see the point you are trying to make but it just doesnt make sense to me why activate EMS/MS to use a regular genjutsu?!!
    The first time we saw Itachi use Susanoo he was 3 quarters dead. And he used it up until moments before his death. Ergo he could have used Tsukiyomi all the way up to his death as it requires less chakra.
     
         

  7. #57
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I do not know about that because I did not keep track which eye itachi or sasuke use every time they amaterasu or use genjutsu or tsukiy.



    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
    Actually, it's the other way around with the eyes, I messed up, but the point is the same. :D

    Not that this is a valid argument, but Sasuke is known for spamming with MS/EMS for no reason. Also, I don't think the activation of the MS alone drains chakra, but using it's power. Normal genjutsu can be casted lots of times by normal sharingan users so MS users can cast them as well.
     
         

  8. #58
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    that would just be a huge waste of chakra for no reason (not that sasuke would not do it). Your point is good and I accept it but I will go as far as calling that unnamed jutsu tsukiy.
    As you said: you wouldn't be surprised if he did it. Remember, that was argubably the first time Sasuke was using his EMS (I'm not counting the one where he killed Zetsu with that amaterasu sword thing). I don't think Sasuke really cared at that point whether he was wasting chakra, because he has EMS and there were only a few zetsu clones to deal with, so it would be a perfect opportunity to try out his powers. Again, I did say it could just be an unnamed jutsu.

    I just can't see why Kishi would put "Genjutsu Sharingan" for Sasuke, and "Tsukiyomi" for Itachi. There is no need to say "Genjutsu Sharingan: Tsukiyomi", otherwise Kishi would have also said: "Sharingan: Amaterasu", but he only says "Amaterasu".

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/5

    Also observe how he only says "Amaterasu" once and it's clear that he is refering to both of them at that point. If both of them were using "Tsukyomi", why didn't he write the same thing for them as well?
     
         
    Last edited by choft; 05-09-2012 at 02:47 PM. Reason: I put in wrong manga link lol

  9. #59
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    We're still making assumptions about it. Sasuke doesn't always say "Chidori" when he does Chidori. Does that mean it's not Chidori?



    Sasuke already been shown he can use visual jutsus with just his regular sharingan in the fight with Itachi and Deidara.


    Whatever Genjutsu he's using, He uses his Mangekyo Sharingan to do it. It is also putting a stress on his eyes or head. Because he seem to hold his head or cover his eye every time he do it.







    Why didn't he just use his regular Sharingan?

    Here we can say, Sasuke was only testing his new powers. A possibility.

    Is it Tsukuyomi, Who knows?



    But what do we know?

    What we do know is:
    -It seems to require the Mangekyo Sharingan.
    -It puts stress on his eyes or head.

    At this point, No one is right nor wrong. Why? Because Kishi is leading us to believe he's using a weaker version of Tsukuyomi.

    Sasuke never said he wasn't using Tsukuyomi. Everything is all assumptions.
     
         

  10. #60
    Member iknowwhotobiis's Avatar
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    Actually, it's the other way around with the eyes, I messed up, but the point is the same. :D

    Not that this is a valid argument, but Sasuke is known for spamming with MS/EMS for no reason. Also, I don't think the activation of the MS alone drains chakra, but using it's power. Normal genjutsu can be casted lots of times by normal sharingan users.
    Probably he can keep EMS up with mininal chakra usage. Well so i guess sasuke third skill is blaze release?!

    my stance in the argument has been explained by solo! thank you
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-09-2012 at 02:43 PM.

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Solo View Post
    We're still making assumptions about it. Sasuke doesn't always say "Chidori" when he does Chidori. Does that mean it's not Chidori?
    With Chidori, it's different as you can clearly see what kind of jutsu it is. (Lightning chakra stored in the hand). Also, it has been stated in the manga that Sasuke can use Chidori and he learnt it from Kakashi. But with Tsukyomi, we have not had any real confirmation that he can do it. I've not seen a single link which says he can use Tsukyomi. If we had just one link, then I can agree that there is no need for him to say it, but as of now there hasn't been one.
     
         

  12. #62
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

    In that panel it was them saying it together!



    Notice the "Genjutsu sharingan!!!"

    Then next panel they say "tsukuyomi".

    No thought or word bubbles.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/3

    But regardless if its 'World of the Gasping Moon' or not ITs still that PArticular eyes MAngekyo Jutsu!

    In the databook It is said that you need Tsukuyomi and Ameratsu to use susanoo. Soooooo What do you say about that?
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

    In that panel it was them saying it together!



    Notice the "Genjutsu sharingan!!!"

    Then next panel they say "tsukuyomi".

    No thought or word bubbles.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/478/3

    But regardless if its 'World of the Gasping Moon' or not ITs still that PArticular eyes MAngekyo Jutsu!

    In the databook It is said that you need Tsukuyomi and Ameratsu to use susanoo. Soooooo What do you say about that?
    But why say "Genjutsu Sharingan Tsukyomi", rather than just "Tsukyomi"? We all know what Tsukyomi is and in this link:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/5

    They only say "Amaterasu", not "Sharingan Amaterasu". Also, notice how it is only written once and yet it's still clear that it refers to both of them. Why not do the same thing with "Tsukyomi"? I still think it's just Sasuke saying "Genjutsu Sharingan", and Itachi saying "Tsukyomi".

    As for the databook: admitedly, I've never read them so I can only use what Vegeta said earlier in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by -Vegeta- View Post
    That was stated in the databook for Itachi's susanoo meaning it was most likely only referring to him.
    But I do not know if this is actually true having not read the databook myself.
     
         

  14. #64
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    But why say "Genjutsu Sharingan Tsukyomi", rather than just "Tsukyomi"? We all know what Tsukyomi is and in this link:

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/5

    They only say "Amaterasu", not "Sharingan Amaterasu". Also, notice how it is only written once and yet it's still clear that it refers to both of them. Why not do the same thing with "Tsukyomi"? I still think it's just Sasuke saying "Genjutsu Sharingan", and Itachi saying "Tsukyomi".

    But I do not know if this is actually true having not read the databook myself.
    but those panels are set up in a different way and size. It is not like kishi has a fixed way of drawing naruto (the manga). In the scenario you provided, there was more space to enlarge the word amaterasu and put it in the middle without interfering the panels. I could be wrong but that´s how I read/saw it.
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    but those panels are set up in a different way and size. It is not like kishi has a fixed way of drawing naruto (the manga).
    I agree that Kishi doesn't have a fixed way of drawing (at least I think he doesn't anyway). But surely Kishi could have just set the panels in the same way as before and then just write one "Tsukyomi" for both of them. Or write "Tsukyomi" in both panels.
     
         

  16. #66
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by choft View Post
    I agree that Kishi doesn't have a fixed way of drawing (at least I think he doesn't anyway). But surely Kishi could have just set the panels in the same way as before and then just write one "Tsukyomi" for both of them. Or write "Tsukyomi" in both panels.
    ok I just read the databook 3 and it says (in my own words) only those who can control both jutsus (amaterasu + tsukiyomi) can use susanoo. My databook is not in english so i cannot give you the official english translation.
     
         

  17. #67
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegod View Post
    In the databook It is said that you need Tsukuyomi and Ameratsu to use susanoo. Soooooo What do you say about that?
    The databook also says that Susano'o holds The Sword of Totsuka and The Mirror of Yata

    I don't see Sasuke having those. Do you?

    That databook was written when only Itachi had Susano'o. I guess Kishimoto had different plans for Sasuke so it's most likely that the requirements for awakening Susano'o will be different as well.
     
         

  18. #68
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    I can't believe this thread. Some people need to learn how to read and use their memory as well. Sasuke used Tsukuyomi on Bee and Danzo already.

    Here is Tobi stating that Sasuke indeed does have Tsukuyomi and compares Sasuke's to Itachi's.



    Sasuke only uses Tsukuyomi with his right eye which is the opposite of Itachi just like his Amateratsu. Why would he use a "genjutsu" with only his right eye? What sense does that make?

    This is when he awoken Tsukuyomi and felt the affect from using it.


    This is when he awoken Amateratsu which is his second ability.
     
         
    Last edited by Zato; 05-09-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  19. #69
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Makz View Post
    The databook also says that Susano'o holds The Sword of Totsuka and The Mirror of Yata

    I don't see Sasuke having those. Do you?

    That databook was written when only Itachi had Susano'o. I guess Kishimoto had different plans for Sasuke so it's most likely that the requirements for awakening Susano'o will be different as well.
    the first part is true but does not necessarly prove that you need tsukiyomi + amaterasu = susanoo.

    because sasuke called susanoo the third power. So what is the second one?! I strongly dont think it is blaze release because that is a KG (most likely).
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-09-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  20. #70
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Databook says you need Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.
    Sasuke has it too but a lot weaker, Danzo stated it when Sasuke used his Genjutsu.
     
         

  21. #71
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    the first part is true but does not necessarly prove that you need tsukiyomi + amaterasu = susanoo.

    because sasuke called susanoo the third power. So what is the second one?! I strongly dont think it is blaze release because that is a KG (most likely).
    The official translation says you need Ama+Tsu to gain Susanoo. It says only when you awaken these two abilities you will gain the power of the god Susanoo. It's tied to mythology.
     
         

  22. #72
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by Zato View Post
    The official translation says you need Ama+Tsu to gain Susanoo. It says only when you awaken these two abilities you will gain the power of the god Susanoo. It's tied to mythology.
    I am agreeing with you. However, he pointed it out that the databook says that susanoo has the yata+totsuka and that is not true. And that was my response to him.
     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Quote Originally Posted by iknowwhotobiis View Post
    I am agreeing with you. However, he pointed it out that the databook says that susanoo has the yata+totsuka and that is not true. And that was my response to him.
    That is because at the time of that Data Book only Itachi had Susanoo. But it does indeed tell you how to gain Susanoo and it claims you have to have both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi. Itachi in recent chapters was shocked that Sasuke could even use Susanoo. I think that tells you how rare it is. If it just required two MS techniques then Susanoo cant be that rare but according to Tobi, he states that eyes that can use even Susanoo is a rarity. Which probably explains why Itachi was shocked that Sasuke had it.
     
         

  24. #74
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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    Regardless, even if Sasuke DOES possess Tsukuyomi (which I doubt), then he isn't near Itachi's level anyway.

     
         

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    Re: Chapter 585 Tsukiyomi

    the killer bee fight is clearly tsukuyomi. the color of pages is the color things turn when itachi uses it. this fight does not seem like that tech or itachi's panel would of been the same color as in the bee fight or when itachi uses it. keep in mind it's no where near itachi's mastery of it. sasuke has not has his eyes for long and he learns as fights. genjustu is not sasuke's strong suit but it's a natural ability clan wise. itachi was trained in the ways of a uchiha longer than sasuke was. sasuke has kakashi's and orochimarus fighting style (taijustu/rigged traps or jutsus). maybe later on down the line he will be a better genjustu user but it's not his style of fighting.
     
         

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