Page 2 of 4 « First 1234 Last»
Results 21 to 40 of 79
  1. #21
    Banned
    Status
    NarutoVsGoku is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,034
    Location
    Planet Vegeta
    Half Lycan Primape Giant....
    Half Canine Monsterous Demon
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Read the first paragraph and lost interest. Not only are you wrong you made your self seem more stupid calling the people who are correct noobs. Sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi and tbh this chapter has made it very clear, although the previous showed aswell. Anyway where do i start. Never in the manga was it said that you need tsukuyomi and amaterasu to use susano, but instead you need to have mastered both the ms to use susano;



    "Only those who control the double ms can use this power". Double ms meaning those who have gained control of both ms eye techniques can use those power.
    Next question what control has itachi got from both ms eyes.

    Well Itachi's amaterasu comes from his right eye;


    Itachi holds his left eye after tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi comes from his left eye;



    And zetsu basically confirms it here. His left eye posses the strongest genjutsu, whilst his right eye posses the strongest physical attack;



    Sasuke one is different somewhat and opposite.

    He has amaterasu in his left eye;


    And some form of sharingan genjutsu in his right eye;




    So as its been said you need mastery of both eyes in order to use susano.
    Itach has mastery in both eyes, meaning he can high level techniques such as tsukuyomi and amaterasu.

    Sasuke before bee's fight had no mastery at all. He gained mastery when he first used amaterasu and then was able to extinguish it, something itachi has already shown. But you see sasuke didnt have mastery of the double ms yet because his right which supposedly contained tsukuyomi wasnt mastery enough to gain him control of both the double ms and effectively susano.

    So the question is, what mastery did sasuke have other the double ms (right eye) for him to use susano. The answer is BLAZE RELEASE. Sasuke with his mastery over the double ms controls amaterasu with his right eye;




    Even the latest chapter shouldve made it clear Itachi uses his right eye for amaterasu and sasuke uses his left. Also note that because both use the same technique its been called amaterasu for BOTH;


    Itachi uses his left eye for TSUKUYOMI and sasuke uses his right for SHARINGAN GENJUTSU. As you can see in the first image above both said amaterasu when they used it. In the second image both said completely different technique's. Itachi said tsukuyomi and sasuke said sharingan genjutsu, even if he had the ms activated it was a sharingan genjutsu that was broken by bee and danzo and not tsukuyomi;


    Next time you decide to inform people atleast know what you are talking about
    next time you decide to comment, read others peoples comments first, understand what you read and than comment. it will make you look less of a fool..

    1. you basically repeated many things i have already stated.

    2. soooo your basically telling me that Sasuke unlocked Amaterasu with his left eye, then unlocked Sasunoo with both eyes and then unlocked Blaze release with his right? then wouldnt that make Sasunoo the 2nd MS jutsu and make blaze the 3rd? because based on your links he is clearly using blaze after using Sasunoo (he has the bone sasunoo)

    see this is where you are wrong and i am clearly right. Sasuke just uses his right eye for both genjutsu and manipulating his amaterasu. his amaterasu is blaze, its just manipulated using his right eye. also Sasunoo is the 3rd power of MS as i have already explained and you even posted the page where he says so. what are the 1st and 2nd? Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. you even posted the page where Sasuke clearly uses Tsukiyomi on Bee, then he unlocks Amaterasu right after that and uses it which you took the effort to post.

    this is why i call others noobs for things like you post. perfect example. you clearly dont even understand what you read and you post the exact same pics that contradict your points...

    please dont waste my time again. read the first post completely and then it all should be clear to you. or at least do that if you want to try to respond. how can you say im wrong but you didnt even fully read or understand what i wrote? you repeated things i said and your trying to give me advice???

    "Next time you decide to inform people atleast know what you are talking about " follow your own advice buddy
     
         
    Last edited by NarutoVsGoku; 05-10-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  2. #22
    Member iknowwhotobiis's Avatar
    Status
    iknowwhotobiis is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    375
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    read it all and I agree with the OP. Enton release might be a KG and not a MS technique. Sharingan users have an aptitude for fire so may be sasuke has developped a KG. His technique is named enton kagutsuchi. The first word is referring to a nature type not a MS technique.
     
         
    Last edited by iknowwhotobiis; 05-10-2012 at 09:51 AM.

  3. #23
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
    Status
    Blaze Release is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    11,970
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Baka Sennin View Post
    my conclusion is that Itachi and Sasuke both have mastery of tsukuyomi and amaterasu, and that is enough to awaken Susanoo. The reason I'm saying this is because Sasuke awoke susanoo BEFORE he used enton, ie he did have mastery of both ms eyes before that.
    I disagree, he knew how to control amaterasu before he used susano. He held his right eye after putting them out;


    This is how i see it.
    Itachi had amaterasu, no different to sasuke but itachi uses his in his right eye whilst sasuke uses his in his left eye.

    Itachi, people seem to forget this also has some form of control of amaterasu with the ability to make it chase after his opponent, but his ability in this field isnt what granted him mastery of both ms. No different to how sasuke's ability with the supposedly tsukuyomi doesnt grant him mastery of both ms.

    Its itachi's tsukuyomi in his left eye that grants him mastery of the ms, no different to how its the mastery of amaterasu, blaze release that grants him mastery of the ms.

    So its something like this.
    Itachi amaterasu = sasuke amaterasu
    Itachi's ability to control amaterasu = sasuke less potent genjutsu
    Itachi's tsukuyomi = blaze release for sasuke.


    Itachi cannot control the flames well enough to use blaze release, no different to how sasuke cannot control everything in that genjutsu to use tsukuyomi.

    So no itachi doesnt have blaze release and sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi
     
         
    Last edited by Blaze Release; 05-10-2012 at 09:49 AM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kurama2012's Avatar
    Status
    Kurama2012 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,509
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    read it all ive never doubted sasuke and Tsukiyomi and the whole itaichi and amaterasu itaichi only gave him that single burst of amaterasu to activate against tobi and his sharingan thats all as we never see sasuke activate itaichis eye to use it as he only uses his own eye
     
         

  5. #25
    Senior Comedian Member -The Agent-'s Avatar
    Status
    -The Agent- is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4,508
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    I disagree, he knew how to control amaterasu before he used susano. He held his right eye after putting them out;


    This is how i see it.
    Itachi had amaterasu, no different to sasuke but itachi uses his in his right eye whilst sasuke uses his in his left eye.

    Itachi, people seem to forget this also has some form of control of amaterasu with the ability to make it chase after his opponent, but his ability in this field isnt what granted him mastery of both ms. No different to how sasuke's ability with the supposedly tsukuyomi doesnt grant him mastery of both ms.

    Its itachi's tsukuyomi in his left eye that grants him mastery of the ms, no different to how its the mastery of amaterasu, blaze release that grants him mastery of the ms.

    So its something like this.
    Itachi amaterasu = sasuke amaterasu
    Itachi's ability to control amaterasu = sasuke less potent genjutsu
    Itachi's tsukuyomi = blaze release for sasuke.


    Itachi cannot control the flames well enough to use blaze release, no different to how sasuke cannot control everything in that genjutsu to use tsukuyomi.

    So no itachi doesnt have blaze release and sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi
    You do understand that Sasuke is using Tsukuyomi to manipulate amaterasu to create blaze release right?

    Itachi and Sasuke are inverses of each other in terms of eyes.
    Itachi right- Amaterasu
    Left Tsukuyomi

    Sasuke Right Tsukuyomi
    Left Amaterasu.


    Blaze release comes from Sasuke manipulating amaterasu with his other eye. Each eye is supposed to have it's own technique and the technique he is using is Tsukuyomi. It wouldn't make sense for Sasuke to have a blank MS with no real technique, therefore sasuke is using his right eye's tech to control his left eyes tech creating blaze release.
     
         

  6. #26
    Senior Member Baka Sennin's Avatar
    Status
    Baka Sennin is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,751
    Location
    Malta
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    I disagree, he knew how to control amaterasu before he used susano. He held his right eye after putting them out;


    This is how i see it.
    Itachi had amaterasu, no different to sasuke but itachi uses his in his right eye whilst sasuke uses his in his left eye.

    Itachi, people seem to forget this also has some form of control of amaterasu with the ability to make it chase after his opponent, but his ability in this field isnt what granted him mastery of both ms. No different to how sasuke's ability with the supposedly tsukuyomi doesnt grant him mastery of both ms.

    Its itachi's tsukuyomi in his left eye that grants him mastery of the ms, no different to how its the mastery of amaterasu, blaze release that grants him mastery of the ms.

    So its something like this.
    Itachi amaterasu = sasuke amaterasu
    Itachi's ability to control amaterasu = sasuke less potent genjutsu
    Itachi's tsukuyomi = blaze release for sasuke.


    Itachi cannot control the flames well enough to use blaze release, no different to how sasuke cannot control everything in that genjutsu to use tsukuyomi.

    So no itachi doesnt have blaze release and sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi
    itachi was also able to put amaterasu out though, he did it with sasuke. personally, i think that and the ability to make it chase after the opponent is part of the original amaterasu.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/6 here when itachi stopped amaterasu, only his left eye was open... so i'm not sure exactly. personally, i think space-time manipulation and enton arent precursors to susanoo.

    also, japanese mythology, which kishi heavily borrows from, supports this. susanoo is the brother of both tsukuyomi and amaterasu, born from izanagi.
     
         

  7. #27
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
    Status
    Blaze Release is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    11,970
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    You do understand that Sasuke is using Tsukuyomi to manipulate amaterasu to create blaze release right?

    Itachi and Sasuke are inverses of each other in terms of eyes.
    Itachi right- Amaterasu
    Left Tsukuyomi

    Sasuke Right Tsukuyomi
    Left Amaterasu.

    Blaze release comes from Sasuke manipulating amaterasu with his other eye. Each eye is supposed to have it's own technique and the technique he is using is Tsukuyomi. It wouldn't make sense for Sasuke to have a blank MS with no real technique, therefore sasuke is using his right eye's tech to control his left eyes tech creating blaze release.
    Sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi. He has a less potent ms genjutsu. Most likely above normal sharingan genjutsu, but inferior to tsukuyomi. Somewhere in between. Each eye does have its own technique and in sasuke's case its blaze release

    Quote Originally Posted by Baka Sennin View Post
    itachi was also able to put amaterasu out though, he did it with sasuke. personally, i think that and the ability to make it chase after the opponent is part of the original amaterasu.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/390/6 here when itachi stopped amaterasu, only his left eye was open... so i'm not sure exactly. personally, i think space-time manipulation and enton arent precursors to susanoo.

    also, japanese mythology, which kishi heavily borrows from, supports this. susanoo is the brother of both tsukuyomi and amaterasu, born from izanagi.
    I know itachi was able to put out the flames, but he didnt have mastery of it like sasuke to take it further.

    Anyway i already showed you that he put it out with his right eye. Later on he says this. I have a new power strong enough to destroy konoha;

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/417/8

    And in the next link he holds right eye (blaze release eye);
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/417/9

    I believe he had full control of amaterasu, blaze release before he was able to use susano at the summit

    I do know about japanese myths and how kishi uses them alot, but the latest manga has confirmed that whilst in the first instance both used amaterasu, in the second case both said completely different techniques.
     
         

  8. #28
    Member Rasenloki's Avatar
    Status
    Rasenloki is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    335
    working on my manga/mixtape
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    +rep to op and also if i am not mistaken it was clearly said itachi could not manipulate the flames, his eye followed sasuke and anything in your eye sights line of path will get burned. that's far from manipulation if he is turning his head, but yes he was able to get rid of the fire and that's a far cry from what sasuke can do with it.
     
         

  9. #29
    Senior Comedian Member -The Agent-'s Avatar
    Status
    -The Agent- is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4,508
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    Sasuke doesnt have tsukuyomi. He has a less potent ms genjutsu. Most likely above normal sharingan genjutsu, but inferior to tsukuyomi. Somewhere in between. Each eye does have its own technique and in sasuke's case its blaze release
    he does man. He used it against Killer Bee.

    You can't say they are different because his is weaker than Itachi's. Itachi was more skilled in genjutsu than Sasuke. Itachi caught Naruto in a genjutsu by pointing a finger. Nobody else can do that. So of course his Tsukuyomi is stronger than Sasuke's.

    But Sasuke outshines itachi in Amaterasu being able to control it, and manipulate it's shape.

    But I don't think we will agree on this.
     
         

  10. #30
    Karasu Blaze Release's Avatar
    Status
    Blaze Release is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    11,970
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by -The Agent- View Post
    he does man. He used it against Killer Bee.

    You can't say they are different because his is weaker than Itachi's. Itachi was more skilled in genjutsu than Sasuke. Itachi caught Naruto in a genjutsu by pointing a finger. Nobody else can do that. So of course his Tsukuyomi is stronger than Sasuke's.

    But Sasuke outshines itachi in Amaterasu being able to control it, and manipulate it's shape.

    But I don't think we will agree on this.
    What im saying is that sasuke's supposedly tsukuyomi is no different from itachi's ability to comtrol amaterasu to a degree. Sasuke didnt master tsukuomi and itachi didnt master the ability to control amaterasu. Its the mastery of tsukuyomi for itachi that allowed him to awaken susano. Its the mastery of amaterasu that allowed sasuke to awaken susano.

    Anyway im done here. Never in the manga, unless you can upload me a chapter where sasuke's genjutsu has been called tsukuyomi by kishi, even now kishi doesnt call it tsukuyomi
     
         

  11. #31
    Banned
    Status
    Rapid is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    591
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    But sasuke used susanoo before he used enton and he said the 3rd power is susanoo not 1St or 2nd.
     
         

  12. #32
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
    Status
    psukkar is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2,904
    Out there
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    it doesnt matter because unless sasuke is under genjutsu too, sasuke thinks itachi just got slashed in half too not just us
     
         

  13. #33
    Master Artisan leafeater's Avatar
    Status
    leafeater is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,161
    Location
    PhD: MA, Born: VA
    Coming home after my sage-like
    journey.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    I read it (skimmed some, detailed the rest), and there's no need to rep me just for reading it, lol...

    I was already in agreement with you just from reading the manga chapter, so I didn't need to read the OP to be convinced. However, I always like to get a manga refresher and/or nice index of data from the manga in these types of posts for possible future reference. Thus, nice work, and quite a bit at that. I write long posts, so I'm not about to complain when another does it, especially the OP of their thread. NarutoKage2 actually brought up the point about Itachi/Sasuke not stating Tsukiyomi every time in a discussion with me a while back, so I've also seen some of this evidence. However, this is far more complete in order to serve its intended purpose. You've essentially used David Hume's philosophy regarding physical laws effectively as your argument, which is nice.

    Note: lol, the fifth time that Itachi uses Tsukiyomi (i.e. this past chapter) in your OP the page image the manga guys (i.e. translation and/or scanlation teams), at MangaReader print I presume, misspell it as "Tsukutomi" :D Just check your OP... I find it quite amusing. It's obviously not your fault. Makes me wonder if they also screwed up Sasuke's doujutsu statement, and the correct translation is not, "Sharingan Genjutsu" but possibly "Tsukiyomi." Either way it's irrelevant given the validity of your argument and common sense.

    Itachi's Tsukiyomi is now Tsukutomi, another Uchiha secret revealed!!! lol, :sy:

    Ch. 585, page 13 link: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/13

    Ch. 585, page 13 image (image from NvG's OP):


    Peace
     
         

  14. #34
    Senior Member Izzy..'s Avatar
    Status
    Izzy.. is offline
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,095
    Location
    The Sea
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    I thought it was obvious.

    I didn't need to read the thread at all (but I did ).

    I totally agree with you. I hope my pathetic rep can show the appreciation.

    @leafeater - I love your posts. They are quite informative actually. One of the few logical thinkers on the base such as I. Now add me to your friends list.......please?
     
         
    Last edited by Izzy..; 05-10-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  15. #35
    Man Utd siyo's Avatar
    Status
    siyo is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,530
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)






    Tobi: "Somehow, when Itachi died, he transferred all his eye techniques to you."

    Last I checked, Tsukuyomi was part of Itachi's arsenal which means Sasuke had it at one point.Also the databook specifies that you need both amaterasu and tsukuyomi to awaken susano'o.

    Danzo: "Compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi, where he could alter your perception of time at his whim... Youre as far below him as the land is below the sky."

    As you can see, it is heavily implied that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi.Why would Danzo compare a random technique to Tsukuyomi? Danzo is clearly mocking Sasuke for not possesing the same genjutsu prowess as his brother.


    Finally, blaze release is not a mangekyou technique. It is simply an advanced chakra nature. Just like the rasengan is still the rasengan despite having several different variations, Sasuke just surpassed his brother with amaterasu. He developed it so far that he can manipulate the flames to his personal liking which is expected when Itachi did the same with tsukuyomi. It not only fits the theme of the show but also the Japanese mythology.
     
         

  16. #36
    Legendary Sannin kibaclaw's Avatar
    Status
    kibaclaw is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    731
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoVsGoku View Post
    i will rep you if you read this all. if i dont like you tho i will neg you. fair warning.

    This morning there has been alot of confusion brought up about Sasuke's ability to use Tsukuyomi. I was suprised to see that even though the latest manga ch.585 clearly shows Sasuke using Tsukuyomi noobs have crawled out of the dirt crevices to say Sasuke never has used it nor has it. Something that was also brought up was the orgin of Sasuke's Amaterasu, again i was suprised to see these noobs saying that Sasuke received Amaterasu from Itachi. These two things should not be argued nor even discussed. They are a given, basic knowledge received by reading the manga even if you had basic reading comprehension.

    I'm going to clear things up in this thread and will use facts and evidence from the manga to support my claims. I will make it as easy to understand for you guys, especially for those of you who fail to understand the manga.. im just going to talk about Tsukiyomi tho and clear up on Amaterasu in some other thread some other time when i feel like it.....

    Tsukuyomi Naruto.wiki

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi

    above is the link that explains what the jutsu Tsukuyomi is in Naruto.wiki. Now some of you will argue that "anybody can edit wiki". fact of the matter is that wiki is backed up with evidence from the manga, they reference from the manga.

    on Naruto wiki it says that Sasuke is a user of the Tsukiyomi. Now some of you will say, "well show me when he used it".

    I will show you

    and naru wiki also says that one cannot have Sasunoo without first having Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu. Sasuke did say that one needed both MS eyes

    What Does Tsukuyomi Looks Like?

    First we have to be able to identify what Tsukuyomi looks like. No one will argue that Itachi has used Tsukuyomi multiple times so i will use his as an example

    First time Tsukuyomi is ever used:





    now important things to notice in these pics is that:

    -Itachi said that only someone of the same blood as him (a Uchiha clan member or family relative) has a chance of countering or cancelling the Tsukiyomi.
    -Itachi can control space and time. everything in the realm of his Tsukiyomi is under his control
    -the background is black and white. this characteristic is only associated when using the genjutsu that is Tsukiyomi and no other type of genjutsu.

    the last fact is the most important fact, the others i will bring up again but the 3rd one is crucial.

    2nd Time We've witnessed Tsukiyomi




    -Now this time Itachi NEVER SAYS TSUKIYOMI! For those of you think that the words "tsukiyomi" have to be present whenever the jutsu is being used, you have just seen a time in the actual manga where the words arent present. which means just because "tsukiyomi" isnt said doesnt mean the genjutsu isnt Tsukiyomi!
    -We still recognize it as Tsukiyomi because of the black and white background characteristic that is only associated with Tsukiyomi

    Something that we should take note on also is that Tsukiyomi destroys a persons will as mentioned and noted by Kisame. this is evident when we see the after affect of both Kakashi and Sasuke after being victims to Tsukiyomi


    Third Time Tsukiyomi being used in the manga




    -AGAIN THE WORDS TSUKIYOMI ARE NOT PRESENT, only the words Mangekyo Sharingan was written but we all know to use Tsukiyomi one needs the MS..
    -AGAIN, no one will argue that Itachi was using Tsukiyomi because 1. we again see the black and white background and 2. he was using MS. mind you MS never shown when he used Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu when he visited the leaf. this is the first time we see what an MS looks like but the 3rd time witnessing Tsukiyomi

    4th Time now







    -Itachi is activating Tsukiyomi with his LEFT EYE! this is the very first time we witness exactly which eye Itachi uses Tsukiyomi with-AGAIN!! Itachi is using Tsukiyomi but the words are not present. what makes it obvious is that Itachi MS is activated.
    -now i did not post all of the pages that included what happened while Itachi activated his Tsukiyomi but at first it doesnt seem like a Tsukiyomi. because the black and white background is not present at first. it becomes clear that it is tsukiyomi near the end of the jutsu when Sasuke cancels it with his own sharingan
    -we can tell that the genjutsu was Tsukiyomi all along because it turns black and white. Zetsu who is witnessing the fight confirms that Itachi was using Tsukiyomi and confirms that Sasuke cancelled it on his own accord as seen below. (Itach also confirms he was using Tsukiyomi even though at first the background wasnt black and white and he didnt announce that he was using it before using it. Itachi again confirms he was using Tsukiyomi in page 16 even though at first the background wasnt black and white and he didnt say Tsukiyomi)




    5th time



    -Itachi is obviously using Tsukiyomi. the black and white is evident and so is MS. Sasuke in the other hand has "genjutsu sharingan" in his panel and doesnt create a black and white background. its argueable that his genjutsu is not Tsukiyomi and some of you are saying that but just because it doesnt say Tsukiyomi in his panel doesnt not mean it is not Tsukiyomi, nor does it mean that Sasuke has never used it or cannot use it.

    an explanation for that panel is that Sasuke is using his variation of Tsukiyomi, a weaker version perhaps. we know Itachi is far better at genjutsu than Sasuke, but on the other hand Sasuke is far better at using Amaterasu than Itachi is and has created variations of Amaterasu and Amaterasu based jutsus like he has with his chidoris.

    the fact that it says "genjutsu sharingan" in Sasuke panel doesnt mean hes using an unnamed genjutsu. besides it would contradict the panel picture. we know Itachi uses Tsukiyomi in his left eye. Sasuke is uses Tsukiyomi in his right, plus Sasuke has his EMS activated, plus on top of that he has Itachi's eyes so to conclude that his genjutsu is not Tsukiyomi, a variation of Tsukiyomi, or to say that he cant use Tsukiyomi when he has Itachi eyes, or never has is a ridiculous conclusion to make

    i will furthur support this claim with the next examples of Sasuke using Tsukiyomi or what is likely to be Tsukiyomi or a weaker version:


    real quick tho- to understand what makes a genjutsu Tsukiyomi and not Tsukiyomi. these are characterstics of genjutsus that are obviously nor Tsukiyomi by Itachi:
    Now that we know the characteristics of a MS Tsukiyomi let us compare it to Itachi's other type of genjutsus

    Itachi's other genjutsus (not Tsukiyomi)



    this is a genjutsu that Itachi uses by pointing a finger. Itachi is able to cast a genjutsu by just pointing a finger. this was agasint Naruto when he was trying to save Gaara. the characteristics of this genjutsu is seen in the next chapter, heres the link, http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/259 but the back ground is not black and white and Itachi MS is not activated which means this is obviously not Tsukiyomi.




    this is just a regular sharingan genjutsu. Itachi used this on Kakashi when the Leaf ninjas were after Gaara. Itachi could not use MS cuz he was fighting with limited chakra. since he couldnt use MS, it means he couldnt use Tsukiyomi. and as you can see this genjutsu does not have the same characteristics as a Tsukiyomi where the background turns black and white.



    crow sharingan genjutsu. Itachi casting a genjutsu by surrounding you with flying crows that possess sharingans. used on Naruto when he was looking for Sasuke. again no MS and no black and white so we know its not Tsukiyomi.


    Sasuke evidence for using Tsukiyomi

    First time Sasuke is using genjutsu with an MS





    -this is the first time Sasuke is using a genjutsu while having the MS. he used genjutsu before on Deidara, and Orochimaru, even Manda (Oro summon snake). but Sasuke using a genjutsu while having MS makes it a posibility for it being Tsukiyomi
    -now this is arueable that its not Tsukiyomi. as i have stated much earlier Tsukiyomi was a genjutsu that broke ones will, tortured someone. here we see Sasuke casting a genjutsu that allows him to find information from his target
    -but than again this genjutsu uses the MS and it focuses on Sasukes right eye and that is his Tsukiyomi eye since his Amaterasu eye is his left eye.
    -there is no black and white background so its very plausible that this isnt Tsukiyomi but you cant ignore it being a MS genjutsu. just because this isnt Tsukiyomi doensnt mean Sasuke cant use it. maybe this is Sasukes variation of it since its MS but i honestly doubt it. i think its a MS genjutsu specific to Sasuke that allows him to receive info
    -he uses this again agaisnt a Zetsu clone. link: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/11

    Tsukiyomi is obvious here




    -this is when Sasuke was fighting Bee.
    -fact: Sasuke is using his right MS to use Tsukiyomi. he uses his left eye to use Amaterasu. just like Itachi uses his right eye for Tsukiyomi and his right for Amaterasu.
    -many of you tried to use this to say "where did Sasuke say Tsukiyomi?"... youre trying to argue that because Sasuke did not say "tsukiyomi" that it is not that justsu. well considering that Itachi used Tsukiyomi 5 times in the manga and 3/5 times he didnt even say Tsukiyomi makes your question and arguement both irrelevant and invalid in other words Sasuke does not have to say Tsukiyomi for it to be so
    -the background is black and white!!!!! its Tsukiyomi because everytime Itachi used it it was black and white
    -i do not doubt that this is Tsukiyomi and you shouldnt either

    now Kakashi had pointed out that once in Tsukiyomi one cannot cancel it. Itachi pointed out that one of his bloodline can only cancel Tsukiyomi, which Sasuke did. but Bee cancelled Sasukes Tsukiyomi. some of you may say that it cant be Tsukiyomi because Bee cancelled it and it would contradict Itachi and Kakashi. well Sasuke is weaker at genjutsus than Itachi and cannot control time and space so it just may make it easier for Bee to break. simple explanation. its just like how Itachi said Sasuke had to kill his bestfriend to get MS but yet Sasuke didnt do that, Kakashi sure as hell didnt do that but yet they both aquired MS...


    Kakashi says the Tsukiyomi cannot be cancelled out




    Sasuke's Itachi genjutsu




    -Sasuke used genjutsu on Danzo to make it seem Itachi had appeared.
    -there is no black and white so one can argue that it isnt Tsukiyomi
    -Sasuke is using his MS however, its a MS based genjutsu. and Danzo is comparing it to Itachis genjutsu which can control time and space. Sasukes MS genjutsu just may be a weaker version of what Itachi can do. this is a possibility and shouldnt be ignored.
    -Sasuke not saying Tsukiyomi doesnt mean shit. Itachi didnt say Tsukiyomi most times he used it either.

    Sasukes genjutsu that defeats Danzo




    -here we see black and white. background. Tsukiyomi?
    -Tobi is again comparing Sasukes genjutsu to Itachis. they may be compared because they are the same jutsus but of different strengths or variations
    -Sasuke is using his right MS eye to cast the genjutsu which is his Tsukiyomi eye because his left is Amaterasu
    -Tsukiyomi isnt said but i have already stated that that doesnt matter.
    -the genjutsu wasnt used to torture Danzo, but it may be that Sasukes version of Tsukiyomi is not good for torturing but for allowing Sasuke moments of a slight advantage. nobody said Sasukes Tsukiyomi has to be the exact same as Itachi. their Amaterasus are not the same and their Sasunoos sure as hell arent the same so they can have different ways of using Tsukiyomi as well



    Conclusion and Summary

    the arguements for Sasuke not using Tsukiyomi or not having Tsukiyomi were that he never said "Tsukiyomi". i posted all the times Itachi has used Tsukiyomi and 3/5 times, the majority of the time i should say, Itachi didnt say "Tsukiyomi either.

    an arguement that Sasuke can use Tsukiyomi and has in the past is:

    1. he has MS ("but Kakashi has MS too" thats what you noobs want to say right? but Kakashi isnt a Uchiha)
    2. naruto wiki says so
    3. he has Sasunoo, in wiki it says that you need Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu to use Sasunoo. what that means is that you need both LEFT AND RIGHT MS EYES TO USE SASUNOO. since Amaterasu is dominant on 1 eye (Itachis right, Sasukes left) and Tsukiyomi is dominant on the other (Itachis left, Sasukes right) than that means having both Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu is needed for Sasunoo. Sasunoo is called the 3rd MS jutsu anyways. how can it be the 3rd if you cant get the 1st being Tsukiyomi and 2nd Amaterasu.?
    4. when he fought agaisnt Bee the genjutsu he used had a black and white background. that is a characteristic of Tsukiyomi
    5. when he fought Danzo his genjutsu was being compared to Itachis tsukuyomi. thats because Danzo and Tobi were comparing the level of how both Itachi and Sasuke can use it. also Danzo had a black and white background
    6. it logically makes no sense for Sasuke to have Amaterasu, Sasunoo and not Tsukiyomi when those three are the basic MS jutsus!
    7. Sasuke now has Itachis eyes so being able to use Tsukiyomi is a given! thats like Kakashi getting Obitos eye but yet he cant activate the sharingan or Danzo getting Shisuis eye and he cant use the genjutsu to control other people. noobs
    8. some of you may argue that Sasuke's genjutsus look nothing like Itachis. well thats because Danzo and Tobi stated that Itachi is better at Tsukiyomi than Sasuke. also every sharingan user is different. Sasukes Amaterasus have variations and Sasuke is far better at manipulating his Amaterasus than Itachi was. so Itach is better at manipulating his genjutsu and Tsukiyomi than Sasuke is. they also have very different kinds of Sasunoos. the point is Sasukes Tsukiyomi may be just allow him to gain information from targets and use for only a few seconds like what he did to Danzo while Itachis Tsukiyomi can control the length of time and space and Itachi has complete utter control of the realm of his Tsukiyomi. different eyes different versions.
    9. when the panel in ch. 585 says "genjutsu sharingan" its obviously not just a regular sharingan genjutsu because Sasukes EMS is activated, his right one, thats his Tsukiyomi eye.


    now at the end i'd like to give a shout out to Natsuu for being a noob and making a thread that said Sasuke couldnt use Tsukiyomi. thank you for neg repping me when i told you wrong. shout out to the other noobs that had agreed with him. this ones for you guys that cant comprehend Naruto.

    I agree with all of this except Sasuke did not use Tsuko in 585, that is why when he entered Itachi's genjutsu it was not the tsuko style black and white. The reason he did not use Tsuko on Itachi is because he is not an edo so he has limited chakra reserves so there was no point in wasting extra chakra on tsuko when it wasn't necessary.d


    Other than that all your information is spot on, great thread!
     
         

  17. #37
    Senior Member Necromancer4276's Avatar
    Status
    Necromancer4276 is online now
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,694
    Location
    Between this and the other world.
    Peace is a Lie, there is only
    Passion.
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze Release View Post
    What im saying is that sasuke's supposedly tsukuyomi is no different from itachi's ability to comtrol amaterasu to a degree. Sasuke didnt master tsukuomi and itachi didnt master the ability to control amaterasu. Its the mastery of tsukuyomi for itachi that allowed him to awaken susano. Its the mastery of amaterasu that allowed sasuke to awaken susano.

    Anyway im done here. Never in the manga, unless you can upload me a chapter where sasuke's genjutsu has been called tsukuyomi by kishi, even now kishi doesnt call it tsukuyomi
    I think NarutoVsGoku is right. While itachi does not have blaze release, he also doesn't have some "tsukuyomi release" indicating he has mastered it, it's implied by the fact that he can control time and space in it. His amaterasu is still called amaterasu even though he cannot control it to the degree that sasuke can, just how his genjutsu can still be a tsukuyomi without being able to control it to the degree that itachi can.

    Now if itachi had some fire MS technique that was better than regular fire, but was not technically amaterasu, i would be inclined to believe you. But seeing as how he still uses amaterasu in it's namesake indicates to me that both itachi and sasuke have tsukuyomi, amaterasu, and susano'o.
     
         
    Last edited by Necromancer4276; 05-10-2012 at 06:02 PM.

  18. #38
    Banned
    Status
    NarutoVsGoku is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,034
    Location
    Planet Vegeta
    Half Lycan Primape Giant....
    Half Canine Monsterous Demon
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    Quote Originally Posted by psukkar View Post
    it doesnt matter because unless sasuke is under genjutsu too, sasuke thinks itachi just got slashed in half too not just us
    wrong wrong wrong sir.... nobody is under any genjutsu. in fact Itachi got slashed in half but he is an edo and will revive. idk why people made a big deal about him get cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by leafeater View Post
    I read it (skimmed some, detailed the rest), and there's no need to rep me just for reading it, lol...

    I was already in agreement with you just from reading the manga chapter, so I didn't need to read the OP to be convinced. However, I always like to get a manga refresher and/or nice index of data from the manga in these types of posts for possible future reference. Thus, nice work, and quite a bit at that. I write long posts, so I'm not about to complain when another does it, especially the OP of their thread. NarutoKage2 actually brought up the point about Itachi/Sasuke not stating Tsukiyomi every time in a discussion with me a while back, so I've also seen some of this evidence. However, this is far more complete in order to serve its intended purpose. You've essentially used David Hume's philosophy regarding physical laws effectively as your argument, which is nice.

    Note: lol, the fifth time that Itachi uses Tsukiyomi (i.e. this past chapter) in your OP the page image the manga guys (i.e. translation and/or scanlation teams), at MangaReader print I presume, misspell it as "Tsukutomi" :D Just check your OP... I find it quite amusing. It's obviously not your fault. Makes me wonder if they also screwed up Sasuke's doujutsu statement, and the correct translation is not, "Sharingan Genjutsu" but possibly "Tsukiyomi." Either way it's irrelevant given the validity of your argument and common sense.

    Itachi's Tsukiyomi is now Tsukutomi, another Uchiha secret revealed!!! lol, :sy:

    Ch. 585, page 13 link: http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/585/13

    Ch. 585, page 13 image (image from NvG's OP):


    Peace
    i love this post... i agree with the mistake of writing Tsukiyomi than they could have made a mistake of saying "genjutsu sharingan" since Sasuke is not using a sharingan but an EMS...

    i didnt think to make that arguement because i didnt see the mispelling as a big deal but the mispelling is an indication that there are mistakes in the translation.. i think i will find someone to give me a good translation

    Quote Originally Posted by siyo View Post





    Tobi: "Somehow, when Itachi died, he transferred all his eye techniques to you."

    Last I checked, Tsukuyomi was part of Itachi's arsenal which means Sasuke had it at one point.Also the databook specifies that you need both amaterasu and tsukuyomi to awaken susano'o.

    Danzo: "Compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi, where he could alter your perception of time at his whim... Youre as far below him as the land is below the sky."

    As you can see, it is heavily implied that Sasuke has Tsukuyomi.Why would Danzo compare a random technique to Tsukuyomi? Danzo is clearly mocking Sasuke for not possesing the same genjutsu prowess as his brother.


    Finally, blaze release is not a mangekyou technique. It is simply an advanced chakra nature. Just like the rasengan is still the rasengan despite having several different variations, Sasuke just surpassed his brother with amaterasu. He developed it so far that he can manipulate the flames to his personal liking which is expected when Itachi did the same with tsukuyomi. It not only fits the theme of the show but also the Japanese mythology.
    Itachi did not transfer his jutsus to Sasuke. he implanted only1 amaterasu technique in his eye to be activated at the sight of Tobis sharingan. it was a one time use and one time only. why? because Itachis MS signature patterns were present and it was on the right eye.

    when Sasuke unlocked his own amaterasu, we see him using his own (not itachis) amaterasu with his own MS signature pattern on his left eye! that is his own amaterasu and not itachis..

    besides if Itachi gave Sasuke his MS powers than what is the need of Sasuke transplanting his eye?! why couldnt Sasuke control time and space with Tsukiyomi? why did Sasukes sasunoo look completely different from Itachis?!?! why couldnt Itachi control amaterasu like Sasuke?!

    Sasuke has his own MS and didnt get anything from Itachi except his exact eyes. Itachi only planted a trap in sasuke for a one time use agaisnt Tobi...

    i will make another thread about this since this is a huge misconception by others.


    Quote Originally Posted by kibaclaw View Post
    I agree with all of this except Sasuke did not use Tsuko in 585, that is why when he entered Itachi's genjutsu it was not the tsuko style black and white. The reason he did not use Tsuko on Itachi is because he is not an edo so he has limited chakra reserves so there was no point in wasting extra chakra on tsuko when it wasn't necessary.d


    Other than that all your information is spot on, great thread!
    both Itachi and Sasuke used genjutsu on each other to free each other from Kabutos genjutsu. just because your edo doesnt mean you cant be caught with genjutsu.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromancer4276 View Post
    I think NarutoVsGoku is right. While itachi does not have blaze release, he also doesn't have some "tsukuyomi release" indicating he has mastered it, it's implied by the fact that he can control time and space in it. His amaterasu is still called amaterasu even though he cannot control it to the degree that sasuke can, just how his genjutsu can still be a tsukuyomi without being able to control it to the degree that itachi can.

    Now if itachi had some fire MS technique that was better than regular fire, but was not technically amaterasu, i would be inclined to believe you. But seeing as how he still uses amaterasu in it's namesake indicates to me that both itachi and sasuke have tsukuyomi, amaterasu, and susano'o.
    thank you!!!!!
     
         

  19. #39
    Banned
    Status
    NarutoVsGoku is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5,034
    Location
    Planet Vegeta
    Half Lycan Primape Giant....
    Half Canine Monsterous Demon
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    @Blaze Relaease... you dont listen.. didnt i tell oyu to read my whole post?

    what Agent said is spot on and you are wrong. cease your pointless argueing, your not even right and just argueing to "look" as if your right.

    you say you wont except it being Tsukiyomi because Sasuke has "never said it" but i showed that the majority of the times Itachi hasnt said it either when using the technique.

    i showed that Tsukiyomi has the properties of a black and white background when being used and Sasuke had that on both Bee and Danzo...

    i showed that both Danzo and Tobi were comparing Sasukes Tsukiyomi to Itachis because they said compared to Itachi it is weak, and also Sasuke doesnt have the level of control like Itachi does with time and space.

    i proved to you that your logic is invaild and false. you said that Sasukes ability with amaterasu and "blaze release" allows him to use Sasunooo but you are incorrect. the 3 MS jutsus are tsukiyomi, amaterasu and sasunoo. in order the 1st is tsukiyomi, 2nd amaterasu and 3rd is sasunoo.

    you cannot master the 3rd without mastery of the 1st and 2nd. the reason why these 3 are MS jutsus is becuase Kishi reference them from japanese mythology with the god of the moon Tsukiyomi being born first after the god Inazagi wiped his right eye (maybe left) and then amaterasu the goddess of sun was born when inazagi washed his left eye (maybe right) and sasunoo was born after inazagi washed his nosed. this is why Kishi showed the MS jutsus in the order of tsukiyomi, amaterasu and sasunoo, 1,2,3 respectively. he showed this with itachi and showed this with sasuke.

    and sasuke blaze release came after sasunoo so your wrong and dont make sense when you say he had "mastery" of amaterasu to unlock sasunoo. your arguements are invalid.
     
         

  20. #40
    ☆NR#1 Stalker on NB☆ Aze's Avatar
    Status
    Aze is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,606
    Location
    Konoha
    Revz
     

    Re: Lets Get Some Things Straight (Tsukiyomi)

    all of this is obvious to the core thx for sharing
     
         

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •