Plot Holes and Contradiction in "at 9..."
For me, Itachi's explanation of Izanami and Izanagi seem to raise more questions then it answers.
Apparently, the purpose of Izanami was to "punish and save the users of Izanagi". (587, 3) <---(MLA because I'm used to it haha; although techinically it's not in proper MLA format)
Itachi claimed that those who used it would become arrogant and use it too much. He also said that one person using it wasn't a problem. It was only a problem when multiple people were using it and bickering over which reality to use...
Hold on though, didn't Tobi himself say that Izanagi granted complete control over one's own "personal reality", the "ultimate jutsu meant only to be used on oneself" (479, 4)
First of all, how can using Izanagi "multiple times" be a problem if the consequence is that you lose your eyesight. I'm guessing for an uchiha, losing one eye might be worth it, but both eyes? My guess is that unless something of grave importance threatened you, most Uchiha's were probably only willing to use it once in their lifetime, provided that they even could use it (Itachi doesn't explain how many were able to do so).
Second of all, how can Izanagi users argue which "reality" to choose from if it only affects the individual using it? Is it just me, or, When reading the manga, did you got the sense that the Uchiha's were using Izanagi to change other people's destiny or to determine "destiny" in the bigger picture instead just your own?
Third reason is an extension of my first point, but if you look at the diagram in this chapter on page 5, it implies that Izanagi users were using Izanagi as many as 3 TIMES, THREE TIMES!!! When did Uchiha's start having 3 eyes?
Fourth, this is more of a complaint, but how exactly did Izanagi make its users arrogant? How does changing your destiny for a minimal of one or two times (which doesn't even guarantee that you'll win or live anyway, look at Danzo) and on top of that losing your eyesight make you arrogant?! It baffles me.
I know this thread is starting to get long, but I want to discuss what for me is Itachi blatantly contradicting himself.
In page 9, Itachi says to Sasuke "don't say I'm perfect, first of all..."
This is interrupted by Kabuto's story, but is then picked up at page 14, where Itachi says to Sasuke:
"You should've acknowledged your real self. That way you wouldn't have had to tell lies like I did...and lies also make you unable to look at your own self"
That was a really heartwarming speech Itachi, but why in the world are you lecturing Sasuke about not lying to himself when you're the one telling him all the lies? You are the source of all of Sasuke's problems and internal conflicts. It's like telling a child who doesn't know any better that Santa exists, and then scolding him for lying to himself about the existence of Santa. Are you serious Itachi?
At first I though he was talking to Kabuto, but there's no doubt he's talking to Sasuke.
Last, I want to go over this contradiction in page 6:
"This techinique is used to teach people not to rely on jutsu..."
Wait, did you really just say (I'm putting it in other words, but retaining the essence) that this jutsu is used to teach people not to rely on jutsu??? What?!
That's like trying to teach someone a lesson about how bullying is bad by being a bully to them. It's hypocrisy. And what, are ninjas no longer expected to use jutsu anymore, or just jutsu that "change's destiny".
Actually, I won't go into this arena of philosophy as much as I'd like to. I've already spent enough time writing as it is, but I will say that it clear that Kishimoto doesn't understand the difference between fate and destiny, because there is a logical violation in the philosophical claims that Itachi is making.
I'll just say that either everything is determined and is fate, or nothing is and Itachi is full of bull when he says that "people ought to accept their own destiny". It's ironic that Kabuto's destiny is created and manipulated by Itachi; What he should've said was "Kabuto ought to accept my destiny, the one I determined for him. How is this different from Izanagi, philosophically speaking? It's not, both are used to control and determine desired results. Itachi's ramble is complete and utter hypocrisy.
Anyway, these are my initial thoughts. I'm willing to change my thoughts if you present some good evidence or arguments. It's possible I overlooked something or that I'm wrong, so let's have a calm and intellectual discussion about this chapter. What are your thoughts? Do you agree or disagree and why?