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  1. #1
    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    From this weeks chapter we saw that the Star Knights have invaded Soul Society and began their rampage. Regardless of what happens, I think Soul Society is going to need help in dealing with them (likely from Squad Zero, although honestly I'm a bit hesitant to think Kubo would bring them out so soon in this arc), but the invasion isn't as one-sided as people think.


    First of all, Kirge is nothing but a mere Lieutenant but he's managing to trample Ichigo with little (to no) effort. From this alone you can already tell how powerful the Vandenreich's main fighting force, the Star Knights, must be. But the thing you have to remember is that Ichigo isn't anywhere near as polished a fighter or as efficient as the Captains are. Simply put, in my honest opinion, Ichigo is not in the same league as the Captains.

    Next, the Star Knights killed 1000 Shinigami in 7 minutes. This may sound good on paper, but it doesn't mean much. You have to realize that 99.9% of those 1000 are fodder Shinigami. Any of the Captains could wipe out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fodder foot soldiers if they wanted to go on a killing rampage. Even Kira was neutralized (if not killed) with ease, but again, any of the Captains could kill any of the Lieutenants with utter ease if they attacked with killing intent. Killing 1000 fodder Shinigami means nothing in the face of fighting a full fledged Captain.

    Lastly, Soul Society has a secret weapon - Kurotsuchi Mayuri.
    This is a man who has studied the Quincys thoroughly inside and out. He knows that they fight by absorbing and using the reishi from their environment and he's seen first-hand the kind of power it can grant them (his fight vs Ishida). It should be obvious to everyone that ever since his defeat to Ishida that he went and developed, or at the very least researched, countermeasures to the Quincys techniques. Why do I say this? Because a knowledge hungry lunatic scientist like Mayuri isn't the type to let something like this go. You surprised him once, good for you, but my god it will not happen again... That is the type of person Mayuri is.

    I think Mayuri's knowledge and intelligence is going to be key in this war against the Vandenreich.



    With all that said, I'm not saying the Vandenreich aren't absurdly strong. Just that they aren't worlds apart like I've seen some people say.

    Post what you guys think and discuss below
     
         
    Last edited by NLee; 06-02-2012 at 03:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member home's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    i agree all that the star knights have really done is kill 1000 fodders, thats nothing it has been stated time and time again that the captians are the primary fighting power of the goeti 13 and that the sould society would be nothing without them. i mean come on one lieuntenant got killed and every is suddenly saying that vandereich (dont know how to spell it) are unbeatable. you do realise that starkk or barragain could have killed a lieutenant that easily as well? and the soul society had no trouble beting them. the truth is the star knights havent really done anything that impressive killing a lieuntenant and a thousand fodders is something most of the captain could do by releasing their full spiritual pressure and suffocating them.
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member TobisPawn's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Agreed. But Quincys are still too damn OP.
     
         

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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Yeah I so agree if there is one person who can unravel the mystery surrounding the vandenreichs then it's mayuri alright! they must fear ichigo to some degree why they have chosen now to attack while he is occupied..m
     
         

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    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by home View Post
    i agree all that the star knights have really done is kill 1000 fodders, thats nothing it has been stated time and time again that the captians are the primary fighting power of the goeti 13 and that the sould society would be nothing without them. i mean come on one lieuntenant got killed and every is suddenly saying that vandereich (dont know how to spell it) are unbeatable. you do realise that starkk or barragain could have killed a lieutenant that easily as well? and the soul society had no trouble beting them. the truth is the star knights havent really done anything that impressive killing a lieuntenant and a thousand fodders is something most of the captain could do by releasing their full spiritual pressure and suffocating them.
    My point exactly. The fact that the Star Knights are wiping out foot soldiers means nothing. Hell, the fighting hasn't even begun lol. It'll begin with it's Star Knights vs Captains. Not Star Knights vs unnamed foot soldiers
     
         

  6. #6
    Valar Morghulis!! Rand al'Thor's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by NLee View Post
    From this weeks chapter we saw that the Star Knights have invaded Soul Society and began their rampage. Regardless of what happens, I think Soul Society is going to need help in dealing with them (likely from Squad Zero, although honestly I'm a bit hesitant to think Kubo would bring them out so soon in this arc), but the invasion isn't as one-sided as people think.


    First of all, Kirge is nothing but a mere Lieutenant but he's managing to trample Ichigo with little (to no) effort. From this alone you can already tell how powerful the Vandenreich's main fighting force, the Star Knights, must be. But the thing you have to remember is that Ichigo isn't anywhere near as polished a fighter or as efficient as the Captains are. Simply put, in my honest opinion, Ichigo is not in the same league as the Captains.

    Next, the Star Knights killed 1000 Shinigami in 7 minutes. This may sound good on paper, but it doesn't mean much. You have to realize that 99.9% of those 1000 are fodder Shinigami. Any of the Captains could wipe out hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of fodder foot soldiers if they wanted to go on a killing rampage. Even Kira was neutralized (if not killed) with ease, but again, any of the Captains could kill any of the Lieutenants with utter ease if they attacked with killing intent. Killing 1000 fodder Shinigami means nothing in the face of fighting a full fledged Captain.

    Lastly, Soul Society has a secret weapon - Kurotsuchi Mayuri.
    This is a man who has studied the Quincys thoroughly inside and out. He knows that they fight by absorbing and using the reishi from their environment and he's seen first-hand the kind of power it can grant them (his fight vs Ishida). It should be obvious to everyone that ever since his defeat to Ishida that he went and developed, or at the very least researched, countermeasures to the Quincys techniques. Why do I say this? Because a knowledge hungry lunatic scientist like Mayuri isn't the type to let something like this go. You surprised him once, good for you, but my god it will not happen again... That is the type of person Mayuri is.

    I think Mayuri's knowledge and intelligence is going to be key in this war against the Vandenreich.



    With all that said, I'm not saying the Vandenreich aren't absurdly strong. Just that they aren't worlds apart like I've seen some people say.

    Post what you guys think and discuss below
    agree with you completely..also he fact that ichigo has just regained his powers and is basically starting from scratch...
     
         

  7. #7
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Tbh the quinces seem hella strong ... The fact that that one dude took out that stupid monster and he's a lieutenant , the lieutenants of soul society were getting rocked by him, captain commander had to take him down. Ichigo is gonna murk that dude tough.im hoping for a true hollow form here.

    Also the captains acknowledge that ichigo is hella strong maybe even stronger than them. But the captains are more refined and polished ... More techs and abilities
     
         
    Last edited by edo tensai wilmaso; 06-03-2012 at 07:51 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by edo tensai wilmaso View Post
    Tbh the quinces seem hella strong ... The fact that that one dude took out that stupid monster and he's a lieutenant , the lieutenants of soul society were getting rocked by him, captain commander had to take him down. Ichigo is gonna murk that dude tough.im hoping for a true hollow form here.

    Also the captains acknowledge that ichigo is hella strong maybe even stronger than them. But the captains are more refined and polished ... More techs and abilities
    I actually addressed this, but anyways, Kirge beating Ayon means nothing. Any of the Captains could have beaten Ayon. The fact that the Lieutenants were being tossed around by Ayon serves no basis of comparison either. The Lieutenants aren't on the Captain's level, period.

    The Captains have never acknowledged Ichigo to be stronger than they are. The only reason Ichigo was their only hope in beating Aizen was because Ichigo was the only one who had not seen Aizen's zanpaktou. That's the only reason why they put all their money on him.
     
         

  9. #9
    OH LONG JOHNSON edo tensai wilmaso's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by NLee View Post
    I actually addressed this, but anyways, Kirge beating Ayon means nothing. Any of the Captains could have beaten Ayon. The fact that the Lieutenants were being tossed around by Ayon serves no basis of comparison either. The Lieutenants aren't on the Captain's level, period.

    The Captains have never acknowledged Ichigo to be stronger than they are. The only reason Ichigo was their only hope in beating Aizen was because Ichigo was the only one who had not seen Aizen's zanpaktou. That's the only reason why they put all their money on him.
    ichigo was prabaly the most brolic character right b4 he killed aizen, and did aizen even use his zanpaktou on ichigo during their last battle? the captains have a lot of respect for ichigo

    All I'm saying is the Quincy lieutenant seem stronger than soul societies.
     
         

  10. #10
    Senior Member TheHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by NLee View Post
    I actually addressed this, but anyways, Kirge beating Ayon means nothing. Any of the Captains could have beaten Ayon. The fact that the Lieutenants were being tossed around by Ayon serves no basis of comparison either. The Lieutenants aren't on the Captain's level, period.

    The Captains have never acknowledged Ichigo to be stronger than they are. The only reason Ichigo was their only hope in beating Aizen was because Ichigo was the only one who had not seen Aizen's zanpaktou. That's the only reason why they put all their money on him.
    Yeah I agree with a lot of your theories the zero squad I doubt will come I don't think all the Quincies will be at the same level.

    Kirge is also well over lieutenants level since the tres beasts beat down 2 lieutenants during the war also his ability to constantly absorb Reitsu is OP especially in a place like Hueco Mundo where everything is pretty much Reitsu.

    Again I don't agree with the Ichigo's power the captains I believe have acknowledged Ichgio as their equal maybe not in status but in power wise.

    Byakuya, Kenpachi and Ukitake have all said something among the lines of Ichigo being as powerful as a captain also I agree with fact Ichigo never saw Aizen's Shikai however it was also the amount of Reitsu Ichgio had Unohana mentioned it I think.

    Anyway I'm not saying this to start an argument personally I agree with pretty much everything involving the Quincies.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    People need to think about why the attack is happening now and why it didnt happen during the time of Aizen. The reason must be that they felt their power at that time wasnt enough to engage both Soul Society and Hueco Mundo at the same time, therefore the Shinobi and Hollows must be in some way able to stand their own against them (ofcourse dont ask me why they left it till Ichigo got his powers back lol). This can only support your theory of them not being as OP as people are currently believing.

    Heuco Mundo is down on its 10 leadership model and Soul Society had recently fought a mini war. I suppose this weakened them enough to invite attack from the Quincies otherwise they would have done it sooner.

    Mayuri is definately going to play some part as your right he wouldnt let the opportunity to better himself go (although hes apparently still not at Urahara's level) and he's already taken measures by killing human souls to restore the balance.

    Ichigo's power is obviously unique (and i mean more than just Shinigami + Hollow) as that guys attempt to seal his bankai failed for 'some' reason. Ichigo still has a few secrets to reveal yet.
     
         

  12. #12
    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHokage View Post
    Yeah I agree with a lot of your theories the zero squad I doubt will come I don't think all the Quincies will be at the same level.

    Kirge is also well over lieutenants level since the tres beasts beat down 2 lieutenants during the war also his ability to constantly absorb Reitsu is OP especially in a place like Hueco Mundo where everything is pretty much Reitsu.

    Again I don't agree with the Ichigo's power the captains I believe have acknowledged Ichgio as their equal maybe not in status but in power wise.

    Byakuya, Kenpachi and Ukitake have all said something among the lines of Ichigo being as powerful as a captain also I agree with fact Ichigo never saw Aizen's Shikai however it was also the amount of Reitsu Ichgio had Unohana mentioned it I think.

    Anyway I'm not saying this to start an argument personally I agree with pretty much everything involving the Quincies.
    Well said. I don't disagree that Ichigo isn't at the very least a Captain-class Shinigami, but what I guess I'm trying to say is that it takes more than that to be a full fledged "Captain" if that makes any sense. Ichigo certainly has a reiatsu comparable to those of Captains but that doesn't necessarily mean he's as good a fighter, so in that regard he still falls short. At least that's how I see it
     
         

  13. #13
    Senior Member TheHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by ComeOnPpl View Post
    People need to think about why the attack is happening now and why it didnt happen during the time of Aizen. The reason must be that they felt their power at that time wasnt enough to engage both Soul Society and Hueco Mundo at the same time, therefore the Shinobi and Hollows must be in some way able to stand their own against them (ofcourse dont ask me why they left it till Ichigo got his powers back lol). This can only support your theory of them not being as OP as people are currently believing.

    Heuco Mundo is down on its 10 leadership model and Soul Society had recently fought a mini war. I suppose this weakened them enough to invite attack from the Quincies otherwise they would have done it sooner.

    Mayuri is definately going to play some part as your right he wouldnt let the opportunity to better himself go (although hes apparently still not at Urahara's level) and he's already taken measures by killing human souls to restore the balance.

    Ichigo's power is obviously unique (and i mean more than just Shinigami + Hollow) as that guys attempt to seal his bankai failed for 'some' reason. Ichigo still has a few secrets to reveal yet.
    I also thought the timing was weird like why did they wait for Ichigo to be out of the picture before attacking..

    Do they want to kill him? Do they want to recruit him secretly? Or do they fear him?. Your right Ichigo has way to many secrets around him.

    I agree with Mayuri knowing a lot more than he's letting with the sealing of the Ichigo's Bankai I have a few suggestions perhaps the fullbring or his Hollow where stopping his Bankai from being absorbed.
     
         

  14. #14
    Senior Member TheHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by NLee View Post
    Well said. I don't disagree that Ichigo isn't at the very least a Captain-class Shinigami, but what I guess I'm trying to say is that it takes more than that to be a full fledged "Captain" if that makes any sense. Ichigo certainly has a reiatsu comparable to those of Captains but that doesn't necessarily mean he's as good a fighter, so in that regard he still falls short. At least that's how I see it
    Yeah I kind of get what you mean, Ichigo does not have the same amount of fighting experience of those like Byakuya, Yamamoto, Mayuri, Ukitake and Shunsei etc however Ichigo is shown more like Zaraki in my opinion he just goes with the flow of the battle.
     
         

  15. #15
    Member Darth Atlas's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by ComeOnPpl View Post
    People need to think about why the attack is happening now and why it didnt happen during the time of Aizen. The reason must be that they felt their power at that time wasnt enough to engage both Soul Society and Hueco Mundo at the same time, therefore the Shinobi and Hollows must be in some way able to stand their own against them (ofcourse dont ask me why they left it till Ichigo got his powers back lol). This can only support your theory of them not being as OP as people are currently believing.

    Heuco Mundo is down on its 10 leadership model and Soul Society had recently fought a mini war. I suppose this weakened them enough to invite attack from the Quincies otherwise they would have done it sooner.

    Mayuri is definately going to play some part as your right he wouldnt let the opportunity to better himself go (although hes apparently still not at Urahara's level) and he's already taken measures by killing human souls to restore the balance.

    Ichigo's power is obviously unique (and i mean more than just Shinigami + Hollow) as that guys attempt to seal his bankai failed for 'some' reason. Ichigo still has a few secrets to reveal yet.
    I agree.
    If the vandinriech had attacked while Aizen and the Espada were at full strength they would have had the hardest time especailly because of the arrancars guarding the place Ulquirra would have been their biggest problem also barragan and stark.

    Think about this if they had attacked when the vizards, Espada, full bringers, soul society and ichigo were active then the vandinriech would lose no doubt in my mind.

    And I turly believe Ulquirra will come back because in the last few pages of the fight with ichigo he said if u do not kill me this will never end. I believe and hope he comes back because that would make along with ichigo, grimmjow, and the other arrancars the turning point in the war
     
         

  16. #16
    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Atlas View Post
    I agree.
    If the vandinriech had attacked while Aizen and the Espada were at full strength they would have had the hardest time especailly because of the arrancars guarding the place Ulquirra would have been their biggest problem also barragan and stark.

    Think about this if they had attacked when the vizards, Espada, full bringers, soul society and ichigo were active then the vandinriech would lose no doubt in my mind.

    And I turly believe Ulquirra will come back because in the last few pages of the fight with ichigo he said if u do not kill me this will never end. I believe and hope he comes back because that would make along with ichigo, grimmjow, and the other arrancars the turning point in the war
    Ulquiorra isn't coming back. He is dead. Unlike Halibel who was struck down and fallen to the ground, Ulquiorra disintegrated before our eyes. Sorry, but he's dead, plain and simple.

    The only other major Arrancar who will come back is Grimmjow. His "death" was never shown on screen. Therefore his return is plausible. This simply isn't the case with Ulquiorra.
     
         

  17. #17
    Senior Member TheHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by NLee View Post
    Ulquiorra isn't coming back. He is dead. Unlike Halibel who was struck down and fallen to the ground, Ulquiorra disintegrated before our eyes. Sorry, but he's dead, plain and simple.

    The only other major Arrancar who will come back is Grimmjow. His "death" was never shown on screen. Therefore his return is plausible. This simply isn't the case with Ulquiorra.
    Your right Ulquiorra won't come back it's even been stated by Kubo that he is dead while Kubo has stated that Grimmjow is not dead.
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    I disagree to the statement about Ichigo being a captain class shinigami did anyone forget who ICHIGO really is I mean this is the guy who fought Kenpachi, Byakuya way back in the earlier arcs and defeated them and yall saying he isn't captain class. If I recall Ichigo defeated Aizen which is a man who defeated MANY captain ranks so to say Ichigo isn't no where near captain level when it already stated he was then thats non sense. However I do agree that the Quincys are over powered they shouldnt stand toe to toe with a captain class shinigami Mayuri will be a key factor in this war and I just hope that the royal guards(Zero division) do aid the shinigami.
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Some valid points were made in this tread and I agree. These battle probably wont be as one-sided as lot of people, even myself, originally thought. I was rooting Mayuri to get killed but now he does seem like there best shot to stopping these Quincys. I feel like an effective counter-measure to their ability to absorb reishi is to release contaminated Spirit Particles around S.S. That way if they absorb they'll get contaminated. But still even if the Captains manage to beat them they still have to be careful about their deadliest technique, Ransōtengai. The high level technique that allows the user to control their body parts using strings of spirit energy controlled by their brain, forming lines or strings out of countless reishi.
     
         

  20. #20
    Senior Member NLee's Avatar
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    Quote Originally Posted by ArashiStorm View Post
    I disagree to the statement about Ichigo being a captain class shinigami did anyone forget who ICHIGO really is I mean this is the guy who fought Kenpachi, Byakuya way back in the earlier arcs and defeated them and yall saying he isn't captain class. If I recall Ichigo defeated Aizen which is a man who defeated MANY captain ranks so to say Ichigo isn't no where near captain level when it already stated he was then thats non sense. However I do agree that the Quincys are over powered they shouldnt stand toe to toe with a captain class shinigami Mayuri will be a key factor in this war and I just hope that the royal guards(Zero division) do aid the shinigami.
    I personally disagree. As much as I hate to use this reasoning...Ichigo defeating Kenpachi and Byakuya was nothing more than story build-up in the early stages of the manga to show his rapid (and stupid) growth. Taking what we know now of all three of them, saying that Ichigo is stronger than Kenpachi or Byakuya is far fetched. The Captains are Soul Society's elites and even if Ichigo has managed to carry out some decent fights against them, I'll always see him as being an unpolished gem when compared to the Captains - he just isn't as refined as they are even if he has the sheer reiatsu behind him.

    Also, Ichigo did not defeat Aizen. Even after he used his Mugetsu Aizen was left standing whilst Ichigo was in the process of losing his powers. If Urahara hadn't implanted his sealing technique inside him Aizen would have killed Ichigo.
     
         
    Last edited by NLee; 06-10-2012 at 03:19 PM.

  21. #21
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    Re: Soul Society is in trouble, but it's not as one sided as people think

    good1
     
         

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