Smart Shikamaru

[kingkwong]

Hey everyone!!
Just been reading a thread about how Shikamaru is so smart.
Can we please have some examples here of how smart he has been?
All I hear is he has a high IQ or that he's a genius so could someone please list some exaples where naruto couldn't have thought of himself.
Sorry Shikamaru fans but for me actions speak louder than words.

[~MC117~]

Do you really read the manga?

[~Kobak~]

Shikamaru against Temari, Hidan, Tayuya etc

[OhReary]

His shadow technique is perfect for planning strategy on immobilization, that
requires patients, which he has, he thinks before he goes guns blazing, always being
a few steps ahead of his opponent.

[Q of the Sharingan]

He is able to think multiple moves ahead in stages of a battle. The only thing limiting him is his amount of chakra. He demostrated this against Temari, Tayuya, Hidan, and Kakuzu. He thought out detailed strategies based on several scenarios. Naruto has never done anything complex.

[Hokage Sharingan Kakashi]

Shikamaru against Temari, Hidan, Tayuya etc

So many examples. . .where do we start? lol
Oh those above are great.

[El Batman]

In battle and quick thinking i think Naruto is smarter. I mean Naruto has accomplished things that very few if any people have.
However, when it comes to planning and team strategy Shikamaru is wayyyy smarter.

[General.]

smh
he clearly said he planned the next 100 moves in his head.... thats proof enough

[chopstickchakra]

Yea as if it hasn't been said enough the few solo battles we've seen from Shika were nothing but intellectual battles. Luring Hidan into a protected clan area and then trapping him knowing he couldn't kill him. The way he defeated Temari and the sound girl in the chunin exams. Not to mention how well and noted he was at Shogi, he beat his dad since age 8(if i remember correctly) and his dad's arguably the smartest man in the village.

[kingkwong]

Do you really read the manga?

No, I don't I just look at the pretty pictures and guess what they say.

His shadow technique is perfect for planning strategy on immobilization, that
requires patients, which he has, he thinks before he goes guns blazing, always being
a few steps ahead of his opponent.

I'm just saying other ninjas can plan a few steps ahead of their opponent, what makes him smarter than them?

He is able to think multiple moves ahead in stages of a battle. The only thing limiting him is his amount of chakra. He demostrated this against Temari, Tayuya, Hidan, and Kakuzu. He thought out detailed strategies based on several scenarios. Naruto has never done anything complex.

If your were smart, wouldn't you take into account your chakra and endurance? The scenarios were very detailed because the author wanted to exaggerate the point on how smart he was but hasn't provided very good examples. Sasuke was able to calculate how much chakra he had left and how to conserve and what was more effective. Using dragon fireballs to heat up the air to summon thunder clouds sound better than I force you to move next to that hole and then trap you with my shadow but now I have no chakra.

Yea as if it hasn't been said enough the few solo battles we've seen from Shika were nothing but intellectual battles. Luring Hidan into a protected clan area and then trapping him knowing he couldn't kill him. The way he defeated Temari and the sound girl in the chunin exams. Not to mention how well and noted he was at Shogi, he beat his dad since age 8(if i remember correctly) and his dad's arguably the smartest man in the village.

He already knew Hidans abilities and had prep time. Exactly how was the fight against the sound girl an intellectual battle? Being a shogi prodigy doesn't make you that smart... His dad was said to be the smartest person in the villiage and now he beats him in shogi, now he is the smartest.

I wanted examples of how he did something smart, not random quotes of how smart he is. Don't you think other ninjas showed way more thinking in battles like:
Naruto vs Neji
Neji vs Spider guy
Kakashi vs Zabuza
Naruto & Sasuke vs Haku
Naruto vs Zabuza (changing into a shuriken to free Kakashi)
Jiraiya vs Pain
Sasuke vs Itachi
Sasuke vs Deidara
Sakura & Chiyo vs Sashori
Don't tell me the strategies in these battles were intelligent

Shikamaru:
Hides shadow under string (no thinking in that)
Makes opponent stand next to a hole (Many ninjas can manipulated an opponent to stand at a certain place, Gaara vs chakra armour guys)
Traps opponent in a preparpared pit (Konan does that to Tobi)
Can play Shogi well (...)
Can look at someone play the flute and figure out the commands (this I think is smart, puppet masters or any high level ninja can do that tho)
Hides the fact that he has broken out of the genjutsu (Deidara to Sasuke)

[-Hades-]

You kinda fail to make the difference between being Smart, a genius like Shikamaru, a tactician, and being what you could call "battle smart" like Naruto for example...

To explain this as easy as one can: Naruto watches his opponent, understands him and comes up with a plan to surprise his opponent, an ingenious way for his attack to succeed. Nothing special about this, this is how a ninja should fight, and you get better at it with experience (and from the Konoha rookies Naruto has the most). Shikamaru on the other hand examines his opponent and after he is done thinking he already has the rest of the fight figured out in his mind... he is able to think of every single possibility and outcome and therefore is able to prepare for it and counter it... whatever move his opponent thinks of he already has his next 3 moves planned ahead.

Knowing how much chakra you got left and how to use it? You think that is smart... that is something every ninja can do.

Edit: And if someone like Tobi comments so highly on him, what more proof to consider him smart do you want? Or do you think that Tobi's comment was referring to Shikamaru's strength, in which case this thread is a waste of time.

[Whiteknight]

Shikamaru against Temari, Hidan, Tayuya etc

Shikamaru vs Temari was not a very good example. The only thing he did in that battle was cleverly use some shadows for his shadow possession technique. You would expect that if it's his only technique he would get good at using it.

Since we haven't really seen any other members of his clan use the technique in similarly complicated battles, we don't know if his abilities are better than anybody else's.

Naruto, for a counter-example, is not considered a genius by anybody, but he is able to combine a small handful of techniques (shadow clones, transformation, rasengan) in many clever ways. Shikamaru is called a genius but he only really has one technique he uses in some ways that seem obvious but require practice (running his shadow under a thread, or through a hole in the ground, or passed a floating kunai.

Shikamaru plans ahead and sets traps. So does Naruto. If you compare the amount of planning and forward thinking, Naruto was just as clever in his fight against Kakuzu (setting up clones and using one as a decoy) as Shikamaru was against Hidan. Again, nobody calls Naruto a genius. Kakashi also uses clones and decoys, so he can make detailed plans and set traps. Is Kakashi a genius too?

The fact that Shikamaru is a genius is always told to us but is never demonstrated in the manga. We never see him doing anything that is so clever that other people wouldn't or couldn't do what he does. When you consider that naruto is just as clever in battle AND has the power level necessary to defeat the big enemies, Naruto is the much more important and valuable character.

[kingkwong]

You kinda fail to make the difference between being Smart, a genius like Shikamaru, a tactician, and being what you could call "battle smart" like Naruto for example...

To explain this as easy as one can: Naruto watches his opponent, understands him and comes up with a plan to surprise his opponent, an ingenious way for his attack to succeed. Nothing special about this, this is how a ninja should fight, and you get better at it with experience (and from the Konoha rookies Naruto has the most). Shikamaru on the other hand examines his opponent and after he is done thinking he already has the rest of the fight figured out in his mind... he is able to think of every single possibility and outcome and therefore is able to prepare for it and counter it... whatever move his opponent thinks of he already has his next 3 moves planned ahead.

Knowing how much chakra you got left and how to use it? You think that is smart... that is something every ninja can do.

Edit: And if someone like Tobi comments so highly on him, what more proof to consider him smart do you want? Or do you think that Tobi's comment was referring to Shikamaru's strength, in which case this thread is a waste of time.

How can you figure out the opponents technique if you don't have all the information? He makes a plan in his head with many different senarios, that I don't disagree on but do you actually think other ninjas don't do that? You cannot just look at the opponent and know everything about them. Ninjas are all about secrets. Its not possible to calculate the outcome but due to the plot of Naruto, he is always made to look smart about it. Tobi saying that is just another quote saying how smart he is with no actual proof.

Shikamaru vs Temari was not a very good example. The only thing he did in that battle was cleverly use some shadows for his shadow possession technique. You would expect that if it's his only technique he would get good at using it.

Since we haven't really seen any other members of his clan use the technique in similarly complicated battles, we don't know if his abilities are better than anybody else's.

Naruto, for a counter-example, is not considered a genius by anybody, but he is able to combine a small handful of techniques (shadow clones, transformation, rasengan) in many clever ways. Shikamaru is called a genius but he only really has one technique he uses in some ways that seem obvious but require practice (running his shadow under a thread, or through a hole in the ground, or passed a floating kunai.

Shikamaru plans ahead and sets traps. So does Naruto. If you compare the amount of planning and forward thinking, Naruto was just as clever in his fight against Kakuzu (setting up clones and using one as a decoy) as Shikamaru was against Hidan. Again, nobody calls Naruto a genius. Kakashi also uses clones and decoys, so he can make detailed plans and set traps. Is Kakashi a genius too?

The fact that Shikamaru is a genius is always told to us but is never demonstrated in the manga. We never see him doing anything that is so clever that other people wouldn't or couldn't do what he does. When you consider that naruto is just as clever in battle AND has the power level necessary to defeat the big enemies, Naruto is the much more important and valuable character.

Finally someone that understands . His jutsu is versatile but being his only technique he should be good at it or at least make better use of it. I don't see why he doesn't use a wider ranger of techniques if he is such a tactition, rather than focusing on one jutsu. I find Sasuke battle against Deidara a very intelectual battle, if people can see past the action and bombs.

[-Hades-]

How can you figure out the opponents technique if you don't have all the information? He makes a plan in his head with many different senarios, that I don't disagree on but do you actually think other ninjas don't do that? You cannot just look at the opponent and know everything about them. Ninjas are all about secrets. Its not possible to calculate the outcome but due to the plot of Naruto, he is always made to look smart about it. Tobi saying that is just another quote saying how smart he is with no actual proof.

Yes every ninja does that but not on the same level as him... your average ninja thinks about how his enemy can react to his jutsu, and figure a way to counter for that so you could say like 2 moves in advance (the opponent's reaction and his next move) while Shikamarau already has more moves prepared and thought of more scenarios...
I agree with you that he plans on what he does know about his opponent... he does take into account that his enemy might have a way to counter him but he can only do so to a certain point, like you said a ninja shouldn't reveal all of his tricks.

And Tobi's comment was based on Shikamaru's ability to figure out his plan involving the Golden Brothers... it wasn't just a comment, it was based on something he did. And such a comment from Tobi (who himself is pretty smart, and somewhat a tactician... he did plan a war) isn't something that you can take lightly.

Yes i agree that Kishi could have chosen better way to outline his smartness but keep in mind that he isn't the main character, and doesn't play that much of a role therefore Kishi can't waste so much time with him. And i consider that what he has shown so far in terms of smartness is enough to think of him as a "genius" above your regular ninja.

[Frozenstein]

You kinda fail to make the difference between being Smart, a genius like Shikamaru, a tactician, and being what you could call "battle smart" like Naruto for example...

To explain this as easy as one can: Naruto watches his opponent, understands him and comes up with a plan to surprise his opponent, an ingenious way for his attack to succeed. Nothing special about this, this is how a ninja should fight, and you get better at it with experience (and from the Konoha rookies Naruto has the most). Shikamaru on the other hand examines his opponent and after he is done thinking he already has the rest of the fight figured out in his mind... he is able to think of every single possibility and outcome and therefore is able to prepare for it and counter it... whatever move his opponent thinks of he already has his next 3 moves planned ahead.

Knowing how much chakra you got left and how to use it? You think that is smart... that is something every ninja can do.

Edit: And if someone like Tobi comments so highly on him, what more proof to consider him smart do you want? Or do you think that Tobi's comment was referring to Shikamaru's strength, in which case this thread is a waste of time.

this said everything... his character is based on how smart he is. people should accept this and stop crying. but according to that logic mentioned above Neji isn't smart, isn't a genius either because he only uses jyuuken. lol

btw don't care about them. this thread is so stupid I can't even believe it.

[kingkwong]

this said everything... his character is based on how smart he is. people should accept this and stop crying. but according to that logic mentioned above Neji isn't smart, isn't a genius either because he only uses jyuuken. lol

btw don't care about them. this thread is so stupid I can't even believe it.

Don't post on the thread if it's so stupid. You're the only stupid one here. At least others contribute their ideas. :flaw:

[Whiteknight]

Finally someone that understands . His jutsu is versatile but being his only technique he should be good at it or at least make better use of it. I don't see why he doesn't use a wider ranger of techniques if he is such a tactition, rather than focusing on one jutsu. I find Sasuke battle against Deidara a very intelectual battle, if people can see past the action and bombs.

Exactly, and that's the thing. Take Neji as another example. He was really advanced with the gentle fist when he was younger, but is he really a "genius"? You would expect somebody who has many jutsu and is versatile to be called a genius. Neji is a very talented fighter, but when he gets into fights he has predictable weaknesses: He has no ranged attacks, his strongest and most reliable attacks are very close range and mostly defensive. His various gentle palm techniques require physical contact which can't be done with a fast-moving or a ranged opponent. You would expect a "genius" to understand limitations and develop at least a few techniques to balance those.

Shikamaru is a decent fighter and maybe even a natural leader, but look at the character as a whole: He has only one real technique in his arsenal (and we don't know if he's better than his father for example), that technique has limited range and utility, and his other techniques (Taijutsu) are not special. How do we call him a genius?

I keep bringing up Naruto, because he's the perfect counter-example. Naruto has been called an idiot by himself and others throughout the entire manga. However, Naruto has more techniques mastered than Neji or Shikamaru have demonstrated, he's extremely clever and versatile in battle, and has mastered several S rank techniques through difficult training. His mastery of Sage mode as a teenager is better than Jiraya's as an old man. His mastery of Rasengan, a technique known to be extremely difficult, is relatively high (he can't form it with one hand or do it as quickly, but he can make more variations of it and use it in complicated situations).

My only point is that people say Shikamaru is a genius but he never does anything that a genius would do. People say Naruto is an idiot, but he wins difficult battles through clever and careful planning and advanced techniques.

[Icelerate]

You have to realize that the main characters will have more time to show feats than minor ones like Shikamaru. Anyways he got a 5/5 in intelligence in all three databook entries which is a huge feat considering that the next smartest kids their age could barely get 4/5 in the third databook entry.

[Dayco]

Hi all, here is my 2 cents on the matter.

The word genius can take on three forms:

1 - Innate Genius
2 - Intellectual Genius
3 - Will-powered Genius

1 - Innate Genius
As a real life example, imagine a person who can sing tunes in perfect notes and scales. This person innately has the ability to understand and translate notes from the mind through the mouth. They have an ability which can be extremely above average and hence be considered a 'genius' since they have an affinity to music. The same can be said about people who have amazing food pallets, great vision for art, etc...

In this instance, we can imagine ninjas such as Itachi & Neji to be Innate geniuses of their respective clans since they have the affinity and mental/physical ability to utilise their clan's bloodline limits to a higher level than normal. The same can be said about Madara, Hashirama. I consider them to be Innate geniuses as well.


2 - Intellectual Genius
In real life, people who are able to use their mental capacity to augment regular mental tasks such as maths, multi-tasking & leadership to a high level can also be considered geniuses. Such individuals do not have special affinities for particular senses but have incredible mental power to think outside-the-box and from various perspectives. They are able to strategise, calculate and process information quickly. This is the high IQ bracket.

Ninjas such as Kakashi, Orochimaru, Shikaku & Shikamaru are thought to be geniuses in this area and are highlighted in the manga as such. Although they have impressive hidden ninjutsu, their intellect is more impressive and therefore they gain the benefit of outsmarting their opponents in a much better way than others can.

Kakashi vs. Pain was an excellent example of intellectual genius
Shikamaru vs. Hidan BEFORE the separate part was another example (kage mane upon contact)
Shikaku is obvious and so is Orochimaru.

Shikamaru stands out in one major area. Others such as Naruto and Neji are very smart in combat and can come up with great tactics, however Shikamaru is capable of knowing and choosing the perfect tactic within the circumstances that he is forced to be in.



3 - Will-powered Genius
This is where Naruto, Lee & Guy excell. Since practice makes 'perfect', this is the best form of genius. Never giving up and always learning, aquiring more experience and using it to come up with better tactics gradually.


In any given situation, if you place Neji, Shikamaru and Naruto in the same combat scenario, they will all strategise really well, however, Neji will excell because of hidden ninjutsu, Shikamaru will excell because of intellectual strategy and Naruto will excell because of his will power.


When you consider Hiruzen, I would say he is an Intellectual Genius
When you consider Hashirama, I would say he is an Innate Genius
When you consider Jiraiya, I would say he is a Will-powered Genius




There will forever be arguments about this, but this is the best way I understand it.
I hope you enjoyed the read

[WindStyleKamehaShuriken]

Shikamaru is a genius look at his fights vs tayuya and hidan

Vs tayuya
Memorizes movements by watching fingers all while tryna to avoid 3 massive summonings
Breaks genjutsu and hides because he knows the only weapon she has is her flutes and knows she will try and use his kunai against him

Not impressed let's look at the whole hindan kakuzu confrontation
1st he completely figures out hogans curse while struggling to keep hidan in shadow possession and saving asumas ass (just for a little while longer)
2nd meeting he originally planned to kill kakuzu using the chakra blade and taking over hidan to kill him didn't know about kakuzus earth style abilities so he escapes but wait Shikamaru has Kakashi wait in hiding to get a vital hit on kakuzu
But kakuzu has 5 harts and doesn't die
Shikamarus plan is still not foiled hey Kakashi get some of kakuzus blood and imma take hidan away and make him take out his own partners heart
Very very very few ppl in the narutoverse could come up with a plan and have that much success

[Dayco]

Agreed.

Shikamaru's thought process:

1 - Kill Kakuzu using chakra blade + Control Hidan
Fail?
2 - Kakashi kills him with Raikiri
Fail?
3 - Get his blood and use Jashin's curse to kill him

3 steps ahead of the game throughout the fight.
Strategy was much more impressive than kage mane as I have highlighted above.

Also, Naruto's fighting techique proven. Try once, fail and learn from experience. Try again, success.

[★Gyakusetsu]

Edit:[/B][/I] And if someone like Tobi comments so highly on him, what more proof to consider him smart do you want? Or do you think that Tobi's comment was referring to Shikamaru's strength, in which case this thread is a waste of time.

I think it's because Tobi has a personal relationship with Shikamaru. He regrets having to hurt him, but he plans to change the timeline anyway so, meh..

[Makz]

How about catching 8 Sound jounins in a trap? If that's not smart I don't know what is. And he was 12 and a genin at the time...

[kingkwong]

How about catching 8 Sound jounins in a trap? If that's not smart I don't know what is. And he was 12 and a genin at the time...

If that is the smartest thing you have seen then

Shikamaru is a genius look at his fights vs tayuya and hidan

Vs tayuya
Memorizes movements by watching fingers all while tryna to avoid 3 massive summonings
Breaks genjutsu and hides because he knows the only weapon she has is her flutes and knows she will try and use his kunai against him

Not impressed let's look at the whole hindan kakuzu confrontation
1st he completely figures out hogans curse while struggling to keep hidan in shadow possession and saving asumas ass (just for a little while longer)
2nd meeting he originally planned to kill kakuzu using the chakra blade and taking over hidan to kill him didn't know about kakuzus earth style abilities so he escapes but wait Shikamaru has Kakashi wait in hiding to get a vital hit on kakuzu
But kakuzu has 5 harts and doesn't die
Shikamarus plan is still not foiled hey Kakashi get some of kakuzus blood and imma take hidan away and make him take out his own partners heart
Very very very few ppl in the narutoverse could come up with a plan and have that much success

The only part that I see is smart is getting Kakashi to take a sample of blood.
The trap had prep time.
My little brother figured out the curse thingy before Shikamaru did.
Im pretty sure the everything before was a decoy and the only smart thing was getting the blood sample because he already know Hidans ability, he would not be able to kill an S-ranked ninja with a simple chakra blade plan.

Hi all, here is my 2 cents on the matter.

The word genius can take on three forms:

1 - Innate Genius
2 - Intellectual Genius
3 - Will-powered Genius

1 - Innate Genius
As a real life example, imagine a person who can sing tunes in perfect notes and scales. This person innately has the ability to understand and translate notes from the mind through the mouth. They have an ability which can be extremely above average and hence be considered a 'genius' since they have an affinity to music. The same can be said about people who have amazing food pallets, great vision for art, etc...

In this instance, we can imagine ninjas such as Itachi & Neji to be Innate geniuses of their respective clans since they have the affinity and mental/physical ability to utilise their clan's bloodline limits to a higher level than normal. The same can be said about Madara, Hashirama. I consider them to be Innate geniuses as well.


2 - Intellectual Genius
In real life, people who are able to use their mental capacity to augment regular mental tasks such as maths, multi-tasking & leadership to a high level can also be considered geniuses. Such individuals do not have special affinities for particular senses but have incredible mental power to think outside-the-box and from various perspectives. They are able to strategise, calculate and process information quickly. This is the high IQ bracket.

Ninjas such as Kakashi, Orochimaru, Shikaku & Shikamaru are thought to be geniuses in this area and are highlighted in the manga as such. Although they have impressive hidden ninjutsu, their intellect is more impressive and therefore they gain the benefit of outsmarting their opponents in a much better way than others can.

Kakashi vs. Pain was an excellent example of intellectual genius
Shikamaru vs. Hidan BEFORE the separate part was another example (kage mane upon contact)
Shikaku is obvious and so is Orochimaru.

Shikamaru stands out in one major area. Others such as Naruto and Neji are very smart in combat and can come up with great tactics, however Shikamaru is capable of knowing and choosing the perfect tactic within the circumstances that he is forced to be in.



3 - Will-powered Genius
This is where Naruto, Lee & Guy excell. Since practice makes 'perfect', this is the best form of genius. Never giving up and always learning, aquiring more experience and using it to come up with better tactics gradually.


In any given situation, if you place Neji, Shikamaru and Naruto in the same combat scenario, they will all strategise really well, however, Neji will excell because of hidden ninjutsu, Shikamaru will excell because of intellectual strategy and Naruto will excell because of his will power.


When you consider Hiruzen, I would say he is an Intellectual Genius
When you consider Hashirama, I would say he is an Innate Genius
When you consider Jiraiya, I would say he is a Will-powered Genius




There will forever be arguments about this, but this is the best way I understand it.
I hope you enjoyed the read

Great post!!!

I do believe the author could have given better examples of Shikamaru being smart. I don't disagree on him being smart but I just don't think he is the smartest from the things he has done. The author has tried to portray to us that Shikamaru is smart but hasn't been really shown in detail. I would have to say the most intellectual battle from my memory would have to be Sasuke vs Deidara

[Joki]

There aren't any, everything he has ever done was hardly impressive and the opponent outplayed him or beat him in every way possible every single time.

Pretty much every other average character has implemented far better strategies than he has ever done and is much smarter.

People are just too stupid to realize this, because Kishi doesn't outright say "THIS IS A STRATEGY, AND THIS CHARACTER IS SMART" unlike with Shikamaru which is the only time he's actually pointed it out. Which forces the mindless reader to believe Shika is the only character with brains which in fact is the near opposite.