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  1. #26
    is a japanese guinea-pig? tadhg546's Avatar
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVII View Post
    Wait a minute there, what are u saying is that Minato sealed both parts of kyuubi's chakra (yin and yang) in Naruto? Because as far as i know Minato sealed only the yang chakra of the Kuybi's in Naruto. The yin chakra was offered to the shinigami . If you reread my previous post about how Minato sealed the Kyubi would not that be more logical? The real Minato held Naruto. Shinigami's hands went through the real body of Minato AND Naruto. But the shinigami stopped pulling Kyuubi's yang chakra when it reached Naruto's body (and stored it inside Naruto) and then Minato put an additional seal on Naruto so it could not take control of his body. While this was happening Minato's shadow clone just pulled the Kyuubi's yin chakra. After that Minato died. Because shinigami's hands went throught baby Naruto it explains why Naruto has the shinigami's seal on his belly. The reason he did not die is because he was not the one who was performing the jutsu. Your second version of both holding Naruto is much closer to what i am saying. Also reread chapter 370 especially page 12. Jiraya says Minato only sealed the Nine Tails yin chakra using the shiki foujin. isn't that kinda strange? I have something in my mind about that but i will post it later
    and as for the forcebly creating shadow clones it would be possible as long as the handsigns are pefromed and the chakra flows in the right ways, so it would be easy or the 4th to do if you think about it.
     
         

  2. #27
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVII View Post
    Wait a minute there, what are u saying is that Minato sealed both parts of kyuubi's chakra (yin and yang) in Naruto? Because as far as i know Minato sealed only the yang chakra of the Kuybi's in Naruto. The yin chakra was offered to the shinigami . If you reread my previous post about how Minato sealed the Kyubi would not that be more logical? The real Minato held Naruto. Shinigami's hands went through the real body of Minato AND Naruto. But the shinigami stopped pulling Kyuubi's yang chakra when it reached Naruto's body (and stored it inside Naruto) and then Minato put an additional seal on Naruto so it could not take control of his body. While this was happening Minato's shadow clone just pulled the Kyuubi's yin chakra. After that Minato died. Because shinigami's hands went throught baby Naruto it explains why Naruto has the shinigami's seal on his belly. The reason he did not die is because he was not the one who was performing the jutsu. Your second version of both holding Naruto is much closer to what i am saying. Also reread chapter 370 especially page 12. Jiraya says Minato only sealed the Nine Tails yin chakra using the shiki foujin. isn't that kinda strange? I have something in my mind about that but i will post it later
    I've thought this too... its one of the many puzzles, as to comparing the 4ths to the 3rds versions of it.

    The seal on Naruto's stomach opened up, and that liquid came out... Having that seal means "what the shinigami is pulling through the body, is what is sealed in the shinigami's stomach". I am making the connection between the Shinigami's stomach, and Naruto's stomach.
    Consequently...
    If the seal is opening, that means that "whatever has been sealed, is now coming back out" ... ie a gateway to the shinigami's stomach...
    Consequently....
    The Yin isn't actually "part of Naruto" ... but "inside Naruto's stomach/gateway to the shinigami's stomach"... allowing for the Yin chakra to be used by Naruto, because it "leaks out from the seal in a controlled manner...
    Consequently...
    Given the previously stated, we can only assume that the Yang chakra can also flow out of the seal... Because it is certain that Minato only used the Shinigami jutsu to seal the Kyuubi... thus the 2 seals HAVE TO BE exactly the same type, and have the same means for the chakra to escape the shinigami's stomach...

    Minato only intended for Naruto to use the Yin chakra, that is why he used 2 of the same seal on Naruto, as a "double protection/backup seal".... That is why Minato showed up at the 8-Tail mark, meaning that 7-Tails is the extent of the Yin chakra... any more tails would mean that the Yang chakra was going to be released, and that is why Minato intervened...

    I hope that this breakdown provided a little more insight to my train of thought...
     
         

  3. #28
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Good theory, but you guys make it too complicated and in the end it happens to be very simple. I don't think Kishi drags its complexity up to that degree. But it was fun to read. Thanks
     
         

  4. #29
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    I think that my theory is pretty simple... my explanation isn't...

    Just like with the 3 Tails Beast in the latest Anime episodes... The bijuu is sealed inside "another dimesion" at the bottom of the lake...

    Also, if a seal breaks... whatever is sealed comes out... We saw that in the manga, when the Shinigami sealed opened up, and the Kyuubi chakra poured out...

    Take that to the next level... and if the Kyuubi is inside Naruto... and not the Shinigami's stomach, like it is supposed to be, then that means that somehow there is a connection between Naruto and the Shinigami's stomach...

    Also... where would Minato be? I say his soul/chakra is holding the gate closed...
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by leonmccash View Post
    No. Thanks much. I personally am still having trouble piecing it together. And what you are saying, I had considered myself when typing it... and I'm still struggling with. hahaha. So the confusion is mutual... I appreciate the dialogue.

    Maybe there doesn't have to be a Naruto clone... that part I am about 10% sure on... I am wrapping my brain around the possibility of someone forceably creating a shadow clone for someone else...

    But with the Shinigami using 2 arms to separate the Kyuubi into its 2 halves... I am about 90% sure on...

    So the dilema with the % disparities.... which maybe you can help with... is this...

    The Shinigami arms NEED to go through the Real body of Minato (to grab the Kyuubi's Yang chakra, in exchange for Minato's soul).... & the Shadow Clone of Minato (to grab the Kyuubi's Yin Chakra, in exchange for 1/2 of Minato's total chakra)

    However... each of those arms must pull the respective portions of the Kyuubi into Naruto's stomach, in order for the Shinigami seal to appear. I guess it is more likely that both the Real Minato and Shadow Clone version held Naruto at the same time... Maybe thats the way to think about it???? hahaha.
    That sounds perfectly reasonable, and it may be one of the best answers we get with Minato and Jiraiya dead. We have no idea about Kushina.
     
         

  6. #31
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    nice one i see where your coming from
     
         

  7. #32
    PLATINUM SAGE ... SHANKS platinum69's Avatar
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Bro you have out done yourself!

    wow what a massive amount of data... you made it a enjoyably good read.

    As for the 4th being inside Naruto... Im not to sure as the 4th did say it was the last time he will appear as all his chakra has run out... but that could have been meant for the seal... ???


    Naruto 440 page 15 | One Manga
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by platinum69 View Post
    Bro you have out done yourself!

    wow what a massive amount of data... you made it a enjoyably good read.

    As for the 4th being inside Naruto... Im not to sure as the 4th did say it was the last time he will appear as all his chakra has run out... but that could have been meant for the seal... ???


    Naruto 440 page 15 | One Manga
    Thank you. I spent a lot of mental power thinking it through. And if everyone else does as well... They will be confused as all hell, just like I was... I mean... there is supposed to be a similarity between the 3rd and the 4ths use of this sealing technique... and the technique is VERY particular in its procedures.... So my theory fits into this idea... just is hard to accept or to think about.... oh well
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    sounds like a good theory, but im not sure bout it...
    how is it logical that akatsuki wants to extract the kyuubi from naruto if its in the shinigami's belly, they should be extracting the shinigami instead then.
    my guess is tht the yang/ying(cant really remember) is really a part of naruto

    it could be tht they want to break naruto's seal and seal the chakra thts comming out, but this is a bit far fetched AND they would only be sealing the chakra, not the kyuubi's soul(if u watched the anime u know tht only sealing the chakra will make u an pseudo jinchuuriki)

    also souls arent chakra, the physical form and spiritual form contain chakra, they way ur stating it would mean everytime they use theyre chakra, theyre jus firing off parts of their souls and bodies, wich makes no sense, u could reactto this '' ur soul is chakra cos u die whe its all used up'' but take into account tht everything contains energy, but tht would mean every1 is immortal
     
         
    Last edited by TheSixPathsOfTheSage; 06-04-2009 at 01:54 PM.

  10. #35
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    nice theory ....
    great work
    i think it took alot of time to prepare this theory
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    thats nice and dandy but are you going to say that all the jinjurikis stomachs are connected to the shinigami? each hidden village probly has there own "Seal master" that sealed the bijuu and there are many ways to do so. if you look at the picture of naruto as a baby there are plenty of things written around him and hes all in this little chamber much like how sasuke looked when kakashi used sealed orocimaru's curse seal on sasuke.... we dont know ANYTHING abotu minato with all that stuff sealed up he could probly seal anything into any body much like how the 3rd chose to seal the souls into his own bodys. minato could ahve sealed the kyubi in a remote location. we just dont know.
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Koo View Post
    thats nice and dandy but are you going to say that all the jinjurikis stomachs are connected to the shinigami? each hidden village probly has there own "Seal master" that sealed the bijuu and there are many ways to do so. if you look at the picture of naruto as a baby there are plenty of things written around him and hes all in this little chamber much like how sasuke looked when kakashi used sealed orocimaru's curse seal on sasuke.... we dont know ANYTHING abotu minato with all that stuff sealed up he could probly seal anything into any body much like how the 3rd chose to seal the souls into his own bodys. minato could ahve sealed the kyubi in a remote location. we just dont know.
    We do know about Gara...

    That bijuu was stored inside of a large container, and is the soul of a very old sand ninja. I like to think that shukaku was born from the evil hearts of many many generations of sand ninja. Gara's soul would have added to it when he died. Shukaku was not sealed using the shinigami jutsu. Gara was infused with Shukaku inside of his mother's womb, thus making him believe (rightfully so) that part of his mother was infused with Shukaku, when it was sealed inside of him...

    Naruto, on the otherhand, was just newly born, and had his umbillical cord still attached, when the 9-Tails was sealed inside of him... Naruto's mother died during childbirth, not due to the 9-Tails being put inside of her....

    The only person to use the shinigami jutsu was the 4th and 3rd Hokage, otherwise it wouldn't have been known as "the 4ths sealing jutsu"...

    I guess its unavoidable to talk about the various sealing techniques used, but I believe that these 2 are the only methods we know as of right now...

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    As for what you said "Minato could have sealed the 9-Tails in some random location" .... I am not sure what you are getting at? We know it was while the 9-Tails was attacking Konoha... so... The sealing took place near Konoha...? haha. IDK?
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    That theory is Shikamaru's level of thinking, mixed with sarutobi's knowledge of jutsu!!!

    And to support the idea of someone being able to create a shadow clone of another person, check chapter 117 page 17 where the old geezer (meaning sarutobi) makes kagebunshins of his shurikens! Since he can make kagebunshins of tools like shurikens it doesn't seem so far fetched that the same could be done with a person. But I Don't think it can be compared with kabuto performing kuchiyose for oro. The Combi Henge of naruto and bunta (although a very different jutsu) is an other part of the evidence, since its obviously possible to make a jutsu for another person that just provides chakra (in contrast to kabuto/oro summoning where kabuto seems to be providing the chakra)

    To the Yin Yang Stuff:
    IT's said that contrary to a human being, the youma are monsters made entirely out of chakra. If the Kyubi Yang chakra is the equivalent of a normal persons soul, and the yin chakra that of a normal persons body, then that would mean that minatos soul and the yang chakra are battling in shinigamis stomach.
    If the Theory of the seal being the gateway between naruto and shinigami's stomach is correct, it would explain why Minato appeared when the seal broke:
    It was minato's soul that came out together with Kyubis yang chakra (in form of the blood flowing out of the seal) and once minatos soul restored the seal he disappeared because he was drawn back behind the seal-tunnel. Although this wouldn't explain at all why restoring the seal is a one-time deal... Theoretical he should just be able to reappear the next time the seal breaks (according to what i wrote...)

    Also, since it came up that only the yin chakra was sealed in naruto, i'm wondering if akatsuki's plan might have a big flaw: they can't get both halfs of the kyubi (but that doesn't really have much to do with this theory).

    And: I wouldn't include to much of the anime filler story's in the speculation, since it was also mentioned in the mangas that rumors say, Pain would be part of the fuma clan (i know just rumors, but...) and if i remember correctly the fuuma clan was that clan in the rice country (-> Sound not rain) that ran in those ridicoulus races...
    So in My Opinion the whole sealing-onlychakra-equals-pseudo-jinchuuriki is about as valid as the "legendary" sword of the 2nd hokage that can be destroyed by simply smashing many rasengans and chidoris into the blade (that -again- if i remember correctly absorbed chakra or destabilized chakra or something like that... just makes no sense...)
    But That's just my opinion, maybe the anime makers used the pseudo-jinchuuriki to bring in some stuff that would explain the whole jinchuuriki thing better... only kishi knows...if he does....
     
         

  14. #39
    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by gibdirzuckungen View Post
    That theory is Shikamaru's level of thinking, mixed with sarutobi's knowledge of jutsu!!!

    And to support the idea of someone being able to create a shadow clone of another person, check chapter 117 page 17 where the old geezer (meaning sarutobi) makes kagebunshins of his shurikens! Since he can make kagebunshins of tools like shurikens it doesn't seem so far fetched that the same could be done with a person. But I Don't think it can be compared with kabuto performing kuchiyose for oro. The Combi Henge of naruto and bunta (although a very different jutsu) is an other part of the evidence, since its obviously possible to make a jutsu for another person that just provides chakra (in contrast to kabuto/oro summoning where kabuto seems to be providing the chakra)

    To the Yin Yang Stuff:
    IT's said that contrary to a human being, the youma are monsters made entirely out of chakra. If the Kyubi Yang chakra is the equivalent of a normal persons soul, and the yin chakra that of a normal persons body, then that would mean that minatos soul and the yang chakra are battling in shinigamis stomach.
    If the Theory of the seal being the gateway between naruto and shinigami's stomach is correct, it would explain why Minato appeared when the seal broke:
    It was minato's soul that came out together with Kyubis yang chakra (in form of the blood flowing out of the seal) and once minatos soul restored the seal he disappeared because he was drawn back behind the seal-tunnel. Although this wouldn't explain at all why restoring the seal is a one-time deal... Theoretical he should just be able to reappear the next time the seal breaks (according to what i wrote...)

    Also, since it came up that only the yin chakra was sealed in naruto, i'm wondering if akatsuki's plan might have a big flaw: they can't get both halfs of the kyubi (but that doesn't really have much to do with this theory).
    Thanks for reading my theory!

    I'm not sure about the whole "mixing of blood" ... but I see where you are coming from.

    1. A seal is a large amount of chakra used to hold back a large amount of chakra (think of the 3-Tails sealing in the anime)

    2. The 1st of the two seals used on the kyuubi, enables the kyuubi's chakra to flow out of him... This is the seal that becomes visible on his stomach... The seal actually opens up to allow the chakra to come out...

    Note that a seal, that opens, should be considered a "poorly made seal". AND IT IS. The gateway between Naruto and the Shinigami's stomach, ie the seal on Naruto's stomach, allows the chakra sealed within the Shinigami's stomach to leak out. Minato's chakra was "set to come out" of the Shinigami's stomach, only as a last resort, if things got out of control.

    3. The 2nd seal, is the giant gate inside of Naruto. This hold back the other half of the Kyuubi's chakra. I was calling this the Kyuubi's "mind". I believe that the real soul of Minato, his entire essence that was sealed... is what is holding back the Kyuubi. The symbol of Minato, is the "small piece of paper" on the gate.

    4. When the 3rd Hokage fought Orochimaru, the 3rd desperately tried to stop Orochimaru from summoning the Soul of Minato. The reason why, is that he knew what would happen. The 3rd knows the shinigami jutsu, and how the kyuubi was sealed. I believe that IF Orochimaru summoned the 4th Hokage, that "piece of paper" would disappear, and the Kyuubi would be fully unleashed....

    Does that all make sense? lol.
     
         

  15. #40
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    only thing that doesn't make sense to me:
    if minatos soul IS the Seal, what did minato offer to the shinigami? normally it would be the soul, but if minatos soul resides in naruto (holding back one part of the kyubi chakra, did the shinigami get nothing in return for the jutsu? :confused:
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Nice Theory But You Lost Me At When NAruto Makes A Shadow Clone He Has Too Seal ?? Can You Explain That Too Me But Beside That I Like The Theory
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by gibdirzuckungen View Post
    only thing that doesn't make sense to me:
    if minatos soul IS the Seal, what did minato offer to the shinigami? normally it would be the soul, but if minatos soul resides in naruto (holding back one part of the kyubi chakra, did the shinigami get nothing in return for the jutsu? :confused:
    1. The 3rd Hokage used the jutsu, and the seal appeared on his shadow clone's stomach. Technically part of him was sealed away with the 1st and 2nd Hokages' souls. When the 3rd died, the seal appeared on his own stomach. The difference between Naruto, and the 3rd, is that Naruto is still alive, obviously. The way the jutsu was originally created, was that the user's soul would be taken out of his body, and sealed away within the shinigami's stomach, along with the soul of the enemy, and they would battle for all eternity.

    2. Therefore, given the above, the shinigami seal... literally seals the two souls. However, seals can be broken. Meaning, that the shinigami seal CAN be undone. It is well known that the kyuubi leaks out of Naruto, because according to Kakashi and Jiraiya, "the seal is weakening".

    3. The difference between the 3rd and Naruto, is that Naruto is alive & ABLE TO AFFECT the stability of the seal, like when Naruto gets angry for instance.

    4. I made the point that if Naruto can see the kyuubi behind the gate... it means that Naruto can "see inside the shinigami's stomach".... AND.... If Naruto can see inside the shinigami's stomach to see the kyuubi... WHY NOT SEE THE 4th AS WELL!?!? ...

    5. Given the above, where is the 4th Hokage? He is supposed to be battling the kyuubi for all eternity... I devised the theory that Minato used a shadow clone, to explain why he could appear infront of Naruto only once, and him saying its because he was running out of chakra... This means that the true soul/form of Minato is still battling the Kyuubi... BUT WHERE IS HE?!?! We should be able to see him if we can see the Kyuubi! I am saying that Minato could very likely be either "the gate or seal figuratively speaking"...

    6. I wouldn't be surprised that if the Kyuubi ever got taken out of Naruto, or was fully released... The shinigami seal would be NO MORE... AND that Minato's soul would be released as well! Minato not having a body return to... could reside inside of Naruto (in one of those many chambers in his mind) and allow Naruto to use his abilities and powers... This is what the 3rd probably realized when Orochimaru tried to summon Minato, and the 3rd had to stop that at all costs...
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: My 2nd best theory ever!!! - The Shinigami seals. 1 = Stomach & 2 = Minato!!!

    now i get it :worshippy:
    alsways thought when u were talking about the kyubi in shinigamis belly u meant a different part than the kyubi we always see behind the gate, like this it makes much more sense to me.
     
         

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