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  1. #101
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    shinra tensei.
    Madara strikes with his perfect susano in those 5 secs.
    K.O.
     
         

  2. #102
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by raju22 View Post
    Incase you are forgetting that the sword and the susanoo itself formes on the user's chakra, and my friend Killer bee V2 is smaller in size but it still remains the fact that it is a taile'd beast, unless you are saying that Madara uchiha has more chakra then eight tails, with that being said, the sword of susanoo no matter how big it is can not be compared to the volume and lvl of chakra eight tails has in its v2 state.
    Ehm, what? Did you just say that Bee's Bijuu cloak was Hachibi's entire Chakra? Are you serious?

    Quote Originally Posted by raju22 View Post
    And about Shinra tensei's power take a good look here,



    it took Kurama 6 tails to Anchor all of its tail's on the ground and pour almost all of it's power to get inside ST and this was a Normal high lvl ST from PAIN, so if you are implying that Madara's Susanoo is physically more stronger then the 6 tailed Kurama then there is nothing to say, but it has been said that his slash posses the attacking power like a bijju, Yet i can not find anywhere that how much pounding it can withstand.
    I'm not just implying that, I'm saying it with a 100% conviction. Indeed, its power was said to be comparable to that of a Bijuu; MangaStream even says that not even the Bijuu's power is comparable to that of Madara's Susanoo. But that miniature Kyuubi with merely six tails isn't a Bijuu - it's only a small fragment of Kyuubi's actual power. That's actually proving it already. But let's once more compare the physical strength of Naruto's Kyuubi cloak to that of Madara's Susanoo:




    I know that it's only the four tailed cloak, but it's just to give you an idea of how much stronger Susanoo actually is. That Bijuu cloak is incredibly strong, but its power is not that of a real Bijuu, only a small part of it.

    I can tell you how much it can withstand. A Chou Oodama Rasengan didn't scratch the first stage, a punch of Tsunade's or Ae's full power didn't break the first stage. Lava can't properly melt the first stage. It required a combination attack of four Kage to break the first stage. This is the final, the third stage. Do you have an idea of how much protection that thing offers? Not to mention that attack is the best defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by raju22 View Post
    So as for now there is no evidence that a normal ST from Nagato will not Tople that susanoo on it's feet (forget the sword slash), who know's maybe Tsunade can break it with her punch if she land's a hit, you can not proove that how much physical power it has (or on the lvl of a bijju on that matter), and gigantic size does not matter for a rinnegan user as you can see that Pain sent 3 gigantic toads flaying with his ST.
    Look above, I already showed you how resistant only the small, incomplete version was. I can provide more examples, if you want. Even if it, howsoever, gets destroyed, Madara survives. And Susanoo can be re-activated over and over again, it basically cannot be destroyed until the user runs out of Chakra.
     
         

  3. #103
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    As I said, just in theory. That was a side-note that has nothing to do with the actual topic. Of course Nagato's interval is not longer than that of Pain, but the same time it isn't considerably shorter. There's just nothing to base that assumption on, since Naruto was just refering to Nagato's speed and power.

    Why did you bring up Rasen Shuriken, again? Tendo made it burst, and now? The sword can't be bursted. If he's just swinging it, Nagato can't absorb it, any way. Even if it gets reflected, the interval and the second sword are still there.

    The sword will be absorbed instantly? That's more than just ridiculous. Nagato took a few seconds just to absorb Bee's Bijuu cloak, which has the size of a human. Even one of Susanoo's fingers is by far bigger than a human - now, I guess you can imagine what that means for the sword. Fujutsu: Kyuin is not an undestructable shield that stops any attack the very moment it touches them. In fact, the size of the sword and the power of Susanoo have good chances of breaking through it. After all it only has the size of Nagato.



    As you can see, and as further implied by 'SFX: Getting through', the 'shield' ban be broken through if there's enough power. Considering the imane size that sword has, and Susanoo's incredible power (as I said, a mere shockwave fractured the entire landscape), it's more than just likely that the sword crushes Nagato right through the shield if he tries to absorb it. Like I said, the sword is not thrown, therefore Susanoo can constantly exert pressure on it. Even if it would somehow stop and be absorbed by Nagato, the shockwave would still rain down at him. Not to mention that Susanoo could attack with the second sword while Nagato is busy absorbing the first one; because you can believe me, even if he could absorb the sword unharmed, he couldn't do it without concentrating and using his hands like it was the case with Naruto's tiny Rasengan.
    Bolded part : Hell no. We're not talking about the size. It's The chakra quality that matters. bijuu chakra is more heavier and massive, even v2 chakra is more compared to the sword. and nagato took it under a couple of seconds.

    And doesn't matter how big is madara shockwave slash. The most important thing is how well you used your tech to defend in this case ST. Nagato doesnt have to use ST as big as the sword shockwave. Use it 360 degrees on his own life size would nullify the shockwave that is directly coming. Meaning the "upper" shockwave would just past through and destroy the background
     
         

  4. #104
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    Ehm, what? Did you just say that Bee's Bijuu cloak was Hachibi's entire Chakra? Are you serious?


    I'm not just implying that, I'm saying it with a 100% conviction. Indeed, its power was said to be comparable to that of a Bijuu; MangaStream even says that not even the Bijuu's power is comparable to that of Madara's Susanoo. But that miniature Kyuubi with merely six tails isn't a Bijuu - it's only a small fragment of Kyuubi's actual power. That's actually proving it already. But let's once more compare the physical strength of Naruto's Kyuubi cloak to that of Madara's Susanoo:




    I know that it's only the four tailed cloak, but it's just to give you an idea of how much stronger Susanoo actually is. That Bijuu cloak is incredibly strong, but its power is not that of a real Bijuu, only a small part of it.

    I can tell you how much it can withstand. A Chou Oodama Rasengan didn't scratch the first stage, a punch of Tsunade's or Ae's full power didn't break the first stage. Lava can't properly melt the first stage. It required a combination attack of four Kage to break the first stage. This is the final, the third stage. Do you have an idea of how much protection that thing offers? Not to mention that attack is the best defense.


    Look above, I already showed you how resistant only the small, incomplete version was. I can provide more examples, if you want. Even if it, howsoever, gets destroyed, Madara survives. And Susanoo can be re-activated over and over again, it basically cannot be destroyed until the user runs out of Chakra.

    WHere did i say that v2 Bee is entire eight tail's, i said it has more chakra then
    Madara uchiha and that susanoo sword for that matter,and it is correct because that susanoo and it's sword is only a manifestation of user's chakra, so it is true when i said that bee v2 has more then it, it is small but it is still a tailed beast in its v2 state.

    I do not read on manga stream, and in this site i read it says that one slash of that sword posses the power comparable to a bijju.

    Tsunade blew a chunk out of that first susanoo with a single punch and broke it's sword with mere hand's, she sent a gigantic susanoo clone flaying and then pummeled it on ground with her fist, so no i do not see how powerful the third stage is, since i never saw it withstanding any attack (they did not show it yet), so your argument that it has power more then a six tails Kurama can not be proved (only attack has been shown,the defense is still a mystery).

    I said that there is no evidence to prove that Nagato's ST will not be able to tople it on its feet,and i stand correct with that sentence.

    i know that susanoo can be reactivated again and again, but the Q is, does Madara without Hashi cells has more chakra then Nagato?.
     
         
    Last edited by raju22; 06-23-2012 at 03:32 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Ah common Raju, get out of here. Not only the amount of Chakra is the problem but the size. A human sized cloak takes therefore much less time to be absorbed than a Cho Oodama Rasengan like Jiraiya formed, it is the size that has to be absorbed. Samehada absorbed his cloak immediately as well.

    Mangastream has always the best translations and everybody knows this; your doubts are just based on ignorance which don't let you accept the power of Susanoo. It destoyed with a mere swing of his sword the gigantic meteor and cut two distant mountains above - did any Biju show such a power? No, every Bijudama of the 5 Biju Tobi controlled covered only one mountain and as we know the Bijudama is the strongest attack of a Biju, unlike Susanoos mere swing of a sword.
     
         

  6. #106
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    this isnt even debatable. not only was 6 tailed naruto able to fight shinra tenseis force but it actually reversed the force of the shinra tensei. perfect susanos sword slash completely negates shinra tensei.
     
         

  7. #107
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurogane View Post
    Bolded part : Hell no. We're not talking about the size. It's The chakra quality that matters. bijuu chakra is more heavier and massive, even v2 chakra is more compared to the sword. and nagato took it under a couple of seconds.
    And Susanoo's Chakra is weak? It even made Karin shiver.

    It is extremely dense and compressed, otherwise it couldn't develop such strength and durability. Not to mention that Madara's Chakra is incredibly strong and sinister, even for a member of the Uchiha clan. Susanoo's sword is incredibly huge, and not in any way made up of weak Chakra. As I explained on page 6, it'd most likely crush Nagato right through Fujutsu: Kyuin. If not, there's still the second sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurogane View Post
    And doesn't matter how big is madara shockwave slash. The most important thing is how well you used your tech to defend in this case ST. Nagato doesnt have to use ST as big as the sword shockwave. Use it 360 degrees on his own life size would nullify the shockwave that is directly coming. Meaning the "upper" shockwave would just past through and destroy the background
    That's true. But after all the main issue with that is if Nagato would even expect such a big shockwave from a mere sword-swung, and if he could defend himself in time. Assuming he could, there's still the second sword and the interval, both dooming Nagato. In case that gets somehow blocked, there's again the first sword.

    As for you, raju, since you didn't bring up anything new I won't even bother quoting your post. It doesn't matter if Susanoo got pushed away or thrown to the ground, it endured all those attacks with (more or less) ease and Madara wasn't hurt at all. This is the third stage - bigger and more durable, since it's now covered with an armor. It wasn't Kyuubi's defensive power, but his pure, physical strength that reflected Shinra Tensei. And, like I already showed you, Susanoo's physical strength exceeds that of Naruto's Kyuubi cloak with six tails by far. And, like I already told that other guy, even if a normal Shinra Tensei reflects it, there's still an interval and the second sword, ready to crush Nagato. Susanoo's movements are fast and not in any way clumsy.

    But I'm just repeating myself.

    Whether Madara has more Chakra than Nagato is debatable, but before he can re-activate Susanoo it first needs to be destroyed. Which is very unlikely to happen, if you ask me.
     
         
    Last edited by FloriGlori; 06-23-2012 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Strict View Post
    Ah common Raju, get out of here. Not only the amount of Chakra is the problem but the size. A human sized cloak takes therefore much less time to be absorbed than a Cho Oodama Rasengan like Jiraiya formed, it is the size that has to be absorbed. Samehada absorbed his cloak immediately as well.

    Mangastream has always the best translations and everybody knows this; your doubts are just based on ignorance which don't let you accept the power of Susanoo. It destoyed with a mere swing of his sword the gigantic meteor and cut two distant mountains above - did any Biju show such a power? No, every Bijudama of the 5 Biju Tobi controlled covered only one mountain and as we know the Bijudama is the strongest attack of a Biju, unlike Susanoos mere swing of a sword.
    Don't waste my time kid, i do not base my reply's on assumptions and hype, the one who absorbed Rasengan from Jiraiya was not Nagato, you are implying that Susanoo has more chakra then Bee v2, for that to happen Madara must have Chakra equal to eight tails, otherwise it will kill him outright just to use that Susanoo, Samehadha reduced Bee to his v1 state, yet Nagato outright sucked it out completely in a split second, and unlike Kisame (who was blown apart) he was not even affected by it.

    I red it on the Mangastream chapter as well it says the same thing that it's offence destroys matter (ST is not matter), but i can not find it anywhere that how strong the Susanoo itself is or it cuts through a Jutsu which repels every attack, and we do not know if it will not be topled on its feet (there goes your sword swing).


    @BOLD, It show's that you are a noob.


    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    As for you, raju, since you didn't bring up anything new I won't even bother quoting your post. It doesn't matter if Susanoo got pushed away or thrown to the ground, it endured all those attacks with (more or less) ease and Madara wasn't hurt at all. This is the third stage - bigger and more durable, since it's now covered with an armor. It wasn't Kyuubi's defensive power, but his pure, physical strength that reflected Shinra Tensei. And, like I already showed you, Susanoo's physical strength exceeds that of Naruto's Kyuubi cloak with six tails by far. And, like I already told that other guy, even if a normal Shinra Tensei reflects it, there's still an interval and the second sword, ready to crush Nagato. Susanoo's movements are fast and not in any way clumsy.

    But I'm just repeating myself.

    Whether Madara has more Chakra than Nagato is debatable, but before he can re-activate Susanoo it first needs to be destroyed. Which is very unlikely to happen, if you ask me.
    You actually have nothing to quote, since you are basing your argument on assumptions, i already told you that Size does not matter for a rinnegan user, and i did not say that ST will hurt Madara, we have not seen Susanoo's (Madara's) Physical strength,or durability, and also Nagato has a time skip in his St is no where to be found, but i take it that it has, then how long? i think Not more then 1 second, that's not enough time for any one to stand on his feet and attack.

    @BOLD, Susanoo is not faster then BEE and Naruto in his Bijju mode.
     
         
    Last edited by raju22; 06-23-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  9. #109
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rul View Post
    Shinra tensei again. He could just pluck Madara out of susanoo with banshou tennin.

    Damn that's some fanboy shit, be realistic..
     
         

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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSages456 View Post
    this isnt even debatable. not only was 6 tailed naruto able to fight shinra tenseis force but it actually reversed the force of the shinra tensei. perfect susanos sword slash completely negates shinra tensei.

    Omfg thank you
     
         

  11. #111
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Staarkk View Post
    Damn that's some fanboy shit, be realistic..
    Prove me wrong then.
     
         

  12. #112
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rul View Post
    Prove me wrong then.
    Here and here. I recall you didn't answer my second post.
     
         

  13. #113
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    Here and here. I recall you didn't answer my second post.
    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    You basically agreed with me more than you disagreed. As I said, the ribs are solid, the energy that surrounds the user isn't. Madara was pulled out between the rips, through the gap between them. There was nothing solid blocking his way. But inside his perfect Susanoo he's entirely covered with solid, manifested Chakra.

    The rips are overall solid - I don't see why they should be solid from the outside, but intangible from the inside.

    I didn't see your second post. We've agreed on the ribs being solid. However there was no energy around Madara at the time, he's also never used that same form as Itachi when Kabuto took his arm.

    At the time he was using this form of susanoo when he was pulled out which is solid.



    Also he wasn't pulled out through the gap between the ribs he was pulled out through the ribs. There also isn't room for him to get pulled out from between.

     
         

  14. #114
    Schnitte. FloriGlori's Avatar
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rul View Post
    I didn't see your second post. We've agreed on the ribs being solid. However there was no energy around Madara at the time, he's also never used that same form as Itachi when Kabuto took his arm.
    Energy or not, it was just to show that not any part of Susanoo is solid. Sasuke already used the ribs without having energy surrounding him, which just shows the incompleteness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rul View Post
    At the time he was using this form of susanoo when he was pulled out which is solid.



    Also he wasn't pulled out through the gap between the ribs he was pulled out through the ribs. There also isn't room for him to get pulled out from between.

    Of course there's enough space to be pulled out in between. On this picture you can also see him being surrounded by the typical energy. Just for protocol.


    He couldn't have been pulled out through the ribs. They are, and this is by now the only point we agree in, solid. Madara would've been smashed against them from the inside rather than coming out of Susanoo if they would've been in his way. It is clearly visible that he was pulled out through the gap, and that there are neither bones nor muscles in his way. I'm not completely sure about the latter, though.



    But even if we would leave all that aside and say that Madara can be pulled out; since Susanoo's huge hand could just catch him before he reaches Nagato that move would be futile anyway.
     
         
    Last edited by FloriGlori; 06-23-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  15. #115
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Maybe Nagato touches Susanoo and it will disappear, after all he absorbed the Biju cloak instantly =O.
     
         

  16. #116
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    Energy or not, it was just to show that not any part of Susanoo is solid. Sasuke already used the ribs without having energy surrounding him, which just shows the incompleteness.


    Of course there's enough space to be pulled out in between. On this picture you can also see him being surrounded by the typical energy. Just for protocol.


    He couldn't have been pulled out through the ribs. They are, and this is by now the only point we agree in, solid. Madara would've been smashed against them from the inside rather than coming out of Susanoo if they would've been in his way. It is clearly visible that he was pulled out through the gap, and that there are neither bones nor muscles in his way.



    Even if what you say was the case, the layer that's covering it now is a seperate armor, that was further said to be 'stabilized'. There's no doubt that it's solid and leaves no known gap for Madara to be pulled out.
    I don't know if you guys thought about it, but isn't this just as dangerous? If Nagato can't pull him out from Susano'o, he'll most likely just toss him around that thing. I still believe that Edo Madara > Nagato... but you can't ignore this.
     
         

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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Odin View Post
    I don't know if you guys thought about it, but isn't this just as dangerous? If Nagato can't pull him out from Susano'o, he'll most likely just toss him around that thing. I still believe that Edo Madara > Nagato... but you can't ignore this.
    LOL the thought is funny to think, but I think Madara stand's inside a little diamond on susanoo's head so the impact on his body should not be dangerous, Edo madara will win against Nagato, there is no doubt about it, anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant of his power lvl.
     
         

  18. #118
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    nagato's normal shinra tensei is simply not enough to deflect madara's attack. and a full one puts nagato in danger and madara can use the second sword to counterattack

    but in an all out fight i believe it can be either side but i think madara can win more likely due to his susano
     
         
    Last edited by arv993; 06-23-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  19. #119
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by FloriGlori View Post
    And Susanoo's Chakra is weak? It even made Karin shiver.

    It is extremely dense and compressed, otherwise it couldn't develop such strength and durability. Not to mention that Madara's Chakra is incredibly strong and sinister, even for a member of the Uchiha clan. Susanoo's sword is incredibly huge, and not in any way made up of weak Chakra. As I explained on page 6, it'd most likely crush Nagato right through Fujutsu: Kyuin. If not, there's still the second sword.


    That's true. But after all the main issue with that is if Nagato would even expect such a big shockwave from a mere sword-swung, and if he could defend himself in time. Assuming he could, there's still the second sword and the interval, both dooming Nagato. In case that gets somehow blocked, there's again the first sword.

    As for you, raju, since you didn't bring up anything new I won't even bother quoting your post. It doesn't matter if Susanoo got pushed away or thrown to the ground, it endured all those attacks with (more or less) ease and Madara wasn't hurt at all. This is the third stage - bigger and more durable, since it's now covered with an armor. It wasn't Kyuubi's defensive power, but his pure, physical strength that reflected Shinra Tensei. And, like I already showed you, Susanoo's physical strength exceeds that of Naruto's Kyuubi cloak with six tails by far. And, like I already told that other guy, even if a normal Shinra Tensei reflects it, there's still an interval and the second sword, ready to crush Nagato. Susanoo's movements are fast and not in any way clumsy.

    But I'm just repeating myself.

    Whether Madara has more Chakra than Nagato is debatable, but before he can re-activate Susanoo it first needs to be destroyed. Which is very unlikely to happen, if you ask me.
    I myself still believe that Nagato could absorb the chakra sword swungs. Fujutsu: Kyuin if you think about it also stopping the momentum of the attacks. This can be seen when he absorb V2 chakra. We didn't saw him injured (or crumbling at that moment). This happens because one the jutsu is actives it would start draining chakra, he can just absorb the sword surface that is about to hit him, doing this would make it easier as the sword technically would be "cut" in a half and disperse. Also common thought told me that while the sword is absorb it will make the sword somewhat "malleable" because of the disturbance that happen on the circulate chakra. If this happens than the second sword swung would also be meaningless cause Fujutsu: Kyuin is still actives. And Nagato was also sensor. That would help him react better
     
         

  20. #120
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    Re: Show me Nagato's counter for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Pravin5 View Post
    Madara beat Nagato ?
    YES.

    With ease ??
    HELL NO.
    Depends. Nagato might be able to beat EMS Madara, especially if his perfect Susanoo requires rinnegan, or isn't as powerful without rinnegan.
    Rinnegan Madara (especially with Mokuton) could probably rape Nagato and Itachi together.
     
         

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