Page 11 of 11 « First ... 7891011
Results 251 to 272 of 272
  1. #251
    Negative Knight's Avatar
    Status
    Negative Knight is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    At the Round Table
    Posts
    13,743
    Post Thanks / Like
    z.z
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    Quote Originally Posted by madara san View Post
    Appears I'm a bit late too. Seems as if you've accepted the difficulties that the Hokage can create for the Mizukage. I will say that the post is extremely well thought out and thorough, you've been creative and most impressively gracious in your comments. + rep my friend!

    On the matter of this battle, as effective as the Mizukage should be against Tobirama's water jutsus, i'm not sure he could withstand his other abilities, namely the edo tensei.
    Also, I'm not convinced as to how fast he could move through the water. Even though he can transform into a liquid state, his molecules remain his and don't just dilute into the water source. If they did it would take time for enough to come together in order to reform into a more solid state to launch an attack. I would imagine he moves as if in a current perhaps; it can be fast, but I would have to give Tobirama and his S/T techniques the upper hand in speed.
    Further to that, given I think the Mizukage has to maintain control over his liquid state I would contend the assumption that the Hokage could manipulate his body to the extent of literally breaking him apart (Although it is a nice idea). He could cause him to move, yet he would remain invulnerable to physical attacks.
    Without the advantage of terrain, as much as I respect the strength of the Second Mizukage (not least the fact he took down Mu!), I don't see him defeating Tobirama that often
    [obviously I realise the lack of solid information isn't there to verify this, but hype does have to play a part at this point]
    That's a very logical argument from you, it seems more logical that he moves as current rather diluting his cells though its certainly possible, to confirm this we need to re-watch the Suigetsu vs Killer Bee fight and see how Suigetsu became a massive body of water.


    Also thanks for the +rep, i gave you it too for the great post and logical counter argument

    Yeah i agree Edo tensei would be a difficult thing indeed but the Second Mizukage could deploy a Infinite Exploding clone and merge with the water to offset the Second Hokage from standing still and using Edo (he knows about it because it was said all the Kages of his time noticed him for his jutsu).
     
         

  2. #252
    Senior Member Bluedevil's Avatar
    Status
    Bluedevil is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,114
    Post Thanks / Like
    Job Huntin' like always
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    Second Mizukage vs Second Hokage
    As with my last Thread this is a thread exploring a largely underrated/not talked about Kage of History and pitting him against a very well known Kage to show how strong this unknown Kage really is.

    This is a thread showing why the Second Mizukage can arguably stronger than the Second Hokage. However this thread doesn't account for Edo Tensei

    The Second Mizukage has shown a great feat of beating Muu (The 2nd Tschuikage) at the cost of his own life, so read the thread before claiming Tobirama is the best ever.




    Why the Second Mizukage is stronger than the Second Hokage?
    The main way the Second Mizukage can combine all of these things into an overall advantage is through these things:

    1) Absorbing all of the Second Hokage's Very High Magnitude Water Techniques
    The Second Mizukage can absorb all of the Second Hokage's water ninjutsu to become progressively stronger and larger in direct proportion into the amount of water he absorbs. Also because of the high magntiude nature of the Second Hokage's techniques he'll be at a very big disadvantage the larger the Jutsu he uses on the Second Mizukage. This is much like a Kisame and chakra relationship only its specific to a type of element.

    2) Immune to the Second Hokage's High Prowess Taijutsu

    This is a obvious point which basically means the Second Hokage's very high taijutsu skills become useless in the face of the Second Mizukage because of the intangible nature of water meaning he can not be hit by the Second Hokage with either his ninjutsu or taijutsu.

    3) Pseudo combination of Minato and Tobi's Space Time Ninjutsu

    The Second Mizukage can be like i said earlier anywhere and everywhere all at once if he leads or makes the battle go in the direction of a nearby water source, combined with his intangibility when in liquid state it becomes a form of S/T Ninjutsu which encompasses both Minato's Speed (much faster as it is instanteous, less than 0 seconds in length) and Tobi's intangibility (inability to be harmed in liquid state apart from certain ninjutsu).

    4) Oil Based Techniques and the Thunder sword was a filler
    The thunder sword wasn't in the manga and was just a filler episode to make a story whch wasn't really there. Also the main point is highlighted by Gyatasuku that the 2nd Mizukage's oil based techniques is a natural insulator so this would allow the Mizukage to counter act the Second Hokage's filler Thunder sword even if it is used as a argument on why Tobirama would win.

    The Second Mizukage's Elemental Advantage with Hozuki Nature Transformation


    Strengthened by Water techniques as they increase the overall volume of the user of the technique.

    Immunity to Wind Techniques as they only work if of a massive magnitude against a increased volume Hozuki user.

    Immunity to Earth Techniques as they are solid and usually require the user to hit the opponent directly. Earth traps will also fail as the user can simply seep out of the technique.

    Immunity to most fire techniques as the Water > Fire nature of things, but there are exceptions for certain fire techniques and fire release users.

    Weakness against very strong fire techniques as the intensity means the user evaporates the user or simply overwhelms the water based technique.

    Severe Weakness against lightning as the whole user becomes a liquid (impure water) means that the Di-Charged nature of water (containing both positive and negative minerals) means that it conducts electricity so dangerous and efficiently means the user is electrocuted over and over as they are a complete circuit.


    If you check the above spoiler tag you will see the Tobirama's main and only chakra nature (the one he specializes in) will backfire in direct proportion to how strong his water technique is, in the relationship the higher the magnitude of the water technique, the greater the disadvantage Tobirama puts himself in.

    Other Tactics usable by the Second Mizukage

    The Second Mizukage could use a Infinite Exploding Clone + The Hydrification Technique as a final resort. First the Second Mizukage can use his Exploding Clone to distract the Hokage momentarily, then fuse with a immense body of water. This would compensate for his lack of strength while the clone is active as he could get rid of his weakened state but making a giant water body like Suigetsu did in the Killer Bee fight.

    While he is distracting the Second Hokage with the Infinite Exploding clone that follows him around, he could damage him heavily by bombarding him with heavy bodies of water while the Clone keeps on tracking him.

    As a last resort if the Second Hokage starts gaining the advantage because of the Mizukage's weakeaned state, he could merge with a very large water source and stay undercover while the Clone does damage to the overall terrain.



    The Second Mizukage's oil-based clone technique can act as a constant distraction and disadvanatage to Tobirama as not only will he have to fight the Second Mizukage but constantly avoid the clone to prevent himself being caught in the destructive blast. Also the infinite nature of the the technique (reversible reaction which acts independently) means that it would act as a constant obstacle to the Second Hokage through the fight. Theoretically it could be seen as a 2 vs 1 advantage.

    Alternative Argument on why the Second Hokage could win



    Other Points to consider:

    This thread hasn't even considered the dangerous effects of the Second Mizukage's ultimate Mirage Genjutsu which he could use in conjunction with the clone technique to attack and defend without lifting a finger (once the preparations are set). Also the explosion won't harm the clam because the genjutsu casts a fake version of both the Second Mizukage and the Clam which are hard to tell from the original.

    The Second Hokage cannot use Taijutsu in the battle because of how useless it becomes in the face of the Second Mizukage in liquid form and he cannot use water ninjutsu (his main offensive) which strengthens the mizukage. Also his S/T ninjutsu is countered by the ability of attaining a combination of Minato's and Tobi's S/T Jutsus combined in a water filled area.



    Finally, this thread has shown simply with his Nature Transformation the Second Mizukage has created a ultimate defense against the Hokage's Main offensive methods, a greater version of S/T Ninjutsu than both Minato and Tobi when fighting in or near a water source.




    What do you guys think who would win, the Second Hokage or the Second Mizukage?

    Also i need someone to make a Bio for the Second Hokage to add to this thread, please notify me if you will

    Proof that the Third Kazekage > The Third Raikage - http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=208118

    Thanks for the invite to this new thread. Honestly I don't have a lot of time to thoroughly go through this but I read the main points. To be honest we do not know much about the 2nd hokage's abilities. In addition I also think you give too much credit to the 2nd mizukage in some areas. There is no proof that the hydro-technique will instantly teleport in any body of water. Also I think that the genjitsu abilities would be negated by the hokage's superior sensor abilities.
    In short the main known abilities that would decide the battle is the hydo-tech.and infant explosion vs time/space abilities and an imperfect edo tensi
     
         

  3. #253
    Member Pizcobaby's Avatar
    Status
    Pizcobaby is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    676
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    seems legit... =p read all of it and grant it the Mizukage was a bad ass, but we just truly have no idea how affluent the second hokage was at water techniques. I honestly think the mizukage was stronger just because he took out mu, but it's just speculation. He does have one hell of a water arsenal.
     
         

  4. #254
    Member SandCoffinGara's Avatar
    Status
    SandCoffinGara is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    34
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    I think that some of the benefits for Tobirama would defenitely be speed. The instant transportation technique I am not convinced works exactly as you stated. Not sure who would win the fight, but I think that Tobirama's genjutsu could even the playing field. The genjutsu caught someone as skilled as Hiruzen in it and made it difficult for him to defend himself. I don't know who would win the fight but I gotta think that it would be a close battle.
     
         

  5. #255
    Deeper zesto's Avatar
    Status
    zesto is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale Lakes
    Posts
    2,339
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    idk but i think Tobirama takes it, i mean he's a senju and senju carries a huge amount of chackra
     
         

  6. #256
    Genius itachi200882's Avatar
    Status
    itachi200882 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    187
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    m i think the 2 mizukage can beat tobirama
     
         

  7. #257
    Boss TrollingSage's Avatar
    Status
    TrollingSage is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    5,029
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    I love how everyone thinks they know everything there is to know about Tobirama despite seeing him in only one fight where he used 2 or 3 water jutsus.
     
         

  8. #258
    Member Owo's Avatar
    Status
    Owo is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    138
    Post Thanks / Like
    ceci n'est pas une forum
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    we don't know enough about tobirama
    but nice done! I like the theorie
     
         

  9. #259
    Member Zygomic's Avatar
    Status
    Zygomic is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    242
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    I kind of agree with this because him being able to absorb the Second Hokage's techniques would give him a great advantage but at the same time since they are both water it would be a drawn out and long fight because it wouldn't have much effect on the Second either.
     
         

  10. #260
    Member
    Status
    Avi1771 is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    As we saw until now i do like to say that Second Mizukage will win
    But According what we heard about senju clan i will choose the Second Hokage
     
         

  11. #261
    Member Myogen's Avatar
    Status
    Myogen is offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    331
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    Great thread Negative Knight it inspired me to go back and read up on Nindiame Mizukage's abilities. It also made me feel like a dummy because I never made the connection that Nindaime Mizukage had Suigetsu's Suika no Jutsu. However because of this I realized a flaw in this thread.

    Suigetsu is weak to Raiton because his body turns into water, but Nindaime Mizukage's body turns mostly into Oil with a bit of water in it. Oil does not conduct electricity, so Nindaime Mizukage should actually be highly resistant or outright immune to Raiton. Also I do not think Mizukage is weak to Katon. As seen with Joki Boi when he is heated up, he explodes, the same would happened if Mizukage was hit with a Katon powerful enough to overcome his Suiton techniques (The explosion could actually be pretty bad for his enemies). But as was we saw with Joki Boi after the explosion the water vapor rises into the atmosphere cooling down, turns to hail, and than reforms Joki Boi. Again the same thing should apply to Mizukage, making him immune to Katon and actually making it dangerous for the enemy to use Katon against him.

    Essentially Mizukage's unique Suika no Jutsu has no weakness, it just makes him all around one of the most durable Shinobi in the manga cannon. It's no surprise why Mu's Jinton was Mizukage's natural enemy back in the day, since it's molecular destruction is one of the few techniques which can actually over come the defense of Mizukage's unique Suika no Jutsu.

    With that out of the way I'll discuss the actual match up. It's an interesting one because Mizukage's Suika no Jutsu would make him immune to Tobirama's Suiton Ninjutsu. But I feel we lack the necessary information on the Clam's Genjutsu to decide whether Mizukage is Top Tier or not.

    We do not know how the Clam's Genjutsu effects Mizukage's opponents and so we don't whether or not the Genjutsu can be broken or avoided. If it can't be than Mizukage is certainly Top Tier and I really have no clue how Mu forced a draw with him. But if not, than he's probably not Top Tier. If he's not Top Tier, I'm pretty sure Tobirama as one of the previous Hokages with Edo Tensei and hax'd S/T Jutsu is and he'd defeat Mizukage regardless of whether his suitons work or not.

    So I think we need to wait till the fourth data book which will detail the clam's jutsu to figure out who would win this match. Though as of right now I lean towards Tobirama based on statements, hype, and the fact that Mu and him draw'd.
     
         
    Last edited by Myogen; 07-23-2012 at 04:46 AM.

  12. #262
    Member TheGr8Uchiha's Avatar
    Status
    TheGr8Uchiha is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    419
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    nice thread! to bad we need to see more of the 2nd hokage and his space time techniques.
     
         

  13. #263
    Member KillaCam's Avatar
    Status
    KillaCam is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    It's hard to make an accurate assumption especially since we really haven't seen a all out fight with 2nd Hokage.

    Yes we saw him use a few High Leveled Water Jutsu vs the third in edo form, but it was said that he knew varoius space time ninjutsu and who knows what else he knew.

    But with the current information I'd give it to mizukage, his techniques are Feirce.

    But thats only with the current info.

    2nd hokage was the brother of the first Harashima.

    I doubt he was a push over, ninjas of that era were beast, so im sure he was able to hold his own, he was the thirds teacher for god sake.

    So in all honest for me its undecided until they show a serious fight with 2nd hokage.
     
         

  14. #264
    The word is Pretentious. Naruto N Uzumaki's Avatar
    Status
    Naruto N Uzumaki is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    694
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    Very, very nice thread.
     
         

  15. #265
    Master Unorthodox Almighty Unorthodox's Avatar
    Status
    Almighty Unorthodox is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    2012 Best Year on Naruobase :)
    Posts
    12,604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sasuke's true Fanbase
    2011-2012
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    tobirama is featless
     
         

  16. #266
    Member
    Status
    24farone is offline
    Gender
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    281
    Post Thanks / Like
    This user has no status.
     

    Re: Proof that Second Mizukage > Second Hokage (Actual Explanation Inside)

    Okay now that we have learned the the 1st and 2nd hokages are on way different scales then the others. Tobirama would wreck the mizukages all if them he is considered THE BEST water user in his time now that would INCLUDE the 2nd mizukage lol also his flying raijin not to mention he created majority of the Jutsu then hidden leaf possesses in the hidden scrolls example the shadow clone Jutsu edi tensei. The hokages are on a whole bother scale then the other kages the only one I think out of the other kages only the third could defeat tobirama bit the mizukages and I'm not being biased hashirama and tobiramas chakra is on while other levels obviously hashirama's lol this thread should be closed
     
         

Page 11 of 11 « First ... 7891011

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •