View Poll Results: Who do you think Tobi is?

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  • Jubbi

    5 0.58%
  • Sage of Six Paths O.O

    14 1.61%
  • Izuna uchiha

    170 19.61%
  • Kagami uchiha

    96 11.07%
  • Obito Uchiha

    178 20.53%
  • Fugaku Uchiha

    9 1.04%
  • Shisui Uchiha

    17 1.96%
  • Setsuna Uchiha

    4 0.46%
  • Madara's Son

    12 1.38%
  • Obito's father

    18 2.08%
  • Madara's split personality (created before original body died.)

    39 4.50%
  • A copycat whose rolemodel is Madara.

    7 0.81%
  • An unknown Uchiha

    21 2.42%
  • Real Madara in Zetsu body

    5 0.58%
  • Some one from Madara's time ( can't decide though)

    10 1.15%
  • Elder son of Sage of Sixth Path

    44 5.07%
  • Zetsu

    23 2.65%
  • First Edo tensie

    2 0.23%
  • Tobirama

    6 0.69%
  • Another Senju

    4 0.46%
  • An Uzumaki

    10 1.15%
  • Tobi (No one we know)

    31 3.58%
  • The ramen guy

    71 8.19%
  • Someone other than these.

    23 2.65%
  • I am done. No theory. ( Not anymore at least.)

    48 5.54%
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  1. #1
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    Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    (Take # 2)




    Countdown to Tobi ID

    Post your latest theories and views about Tobi in here. Please participate in the poll and let's see how many of the NB'ers were able to hit the target.

    The poll in the thread covers most of the theories members of NarutoBase have come up in last few months. If something totally new came up I will add it to the poll.


    We have had some heated discussion and various Tobi theories posted in the last Tobi Sticky (link below):

    Theory: Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions.

    Some 700 votes were cast last time since a poll was added in May, 2012. Results of the poll last time, theories and discussion can be seen in the link to the last official thread above.

    Please continue the discussion from the last thread
    in here. You can use the user name or the character names for searching the theories in the thread.

    You can quote post from the older Official theory thread if need be.
    Like this:

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    Seeing that Tobi ID theories are one of the most popular and repeatedly made thread, it is stickied. Now play nicely and stop making separate threads for it every time you want to come up with a new one.

    Make a separate thread about it now and not only the thread may get closed/trashed you may receive infractions depending on the case.

    Please keep the thread spam free and do not make random posts.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    it's izuna thats all.madara planed it before he died.my theory.simple.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Quote Originally Posted by natzzz View Post
    it's izuna thats all.madara planed it before he died.my theory.simple.
    its not izuna
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    I think its Obito
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    thankyou tshuci for doing this
    tobi is zetsu
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    The rival of the Sage of the 6 paths(someone of his time)maybe?
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Oh..this is awesome, here we go.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Yami- View Post
    Okay Let's see, we know that Tobi knows Madara, so if indeed it is Obito, he's had like 3-6 years of training by Madara. Remember now, Sasuke had 3 years of training with Oro, and could arguably have beaten Kakashi (Though I have no doubt that he could, just don't want to start a meaningless debate) at the finish of his training.

    Now this is Madara, a mastermind. One who achieved the rinnegan, tricked the entire ninja world into believing he was dead, and even planned to be resurrected later in the future. Spending even a year with a mastermind like this could prove very beneficial for the student. Also, let's not forget that he too is a sharingan master. Obviusly so since he achieved the rinnegan. Obito is an uchiha himself, certainly this relation between the two would have a more resulting benefit than the Sasuke and Orochiramu student/teach relationship.

    Another thing, what most overlook in that fight, is that Tobi used one tech, or maybe two. What I'm saying is don't judge the skill of a character based on one powerful tech. That tech is the only reason why the was able to go up against Minato, take that away from him, and it would have been the same as a "kid" Obito. He simply has a convenient ability.

    In short, you can't really judge that fight with the Obito that Kakashi knew. Not when he have been a student under Madara, and had one heck of a convenient tech, and only used that one abilty throughout the entire fight.



    There's also no proof of Madara being dead around this time. You know what I find strange? The edo tensei is said to resurrect you the way that you died. Yet Madara was resurrected in a young looking age. He looks the same age he did as when he fought Hashirama. Now, we know that he lived on to meet Nagato. But why doesn't he look any older? No matter how you look at it, it's odd. If Madara lived to be old, but then Kabtuo "improved" him (Though there is nothing suggesting an improvement on his age), Madara would have no doubt found it strange that he wasn't in an old body, especially since he was expecting to be brought back by Nagato.


    That's another odd thing, why live to become an old man, and then desire to be brought back in that same condition. We know that Madara has planned a lot, and thought of a lot, and he knew a lot. I actually believe that in his dying times, he was able to transfer his "energy" or "lifeforce" somehow into Obito before he died. So that he would be resurrected in his "prime". And this transfer increased the age of Obito. I know, lots will call it farfectch, but meh xD

    Anyway, who's to say how long Madara lived when he should have been dead before Nagato was even born. I don't know the age differnce between Madara and Onoki, but I do know that Onoki was in the same era as Madara, and he's still alive. And if you subtract the Naruto's age which is 16 years, and the age difference of Kakashi when he was a teen compared to when he was a kid. And you're probably gonna end up with like 20-30 years. Madara could have done it with Senju cells if Onoki could pull it off.






    Now we can't just take away the fact that Tobi rolls with a guy named Zetsu. Yeah you're probably saying, "Oh there he goes". Just bare with me, we know that one of Zetsu's abilities is regeneration. No matter what you cut off, he can regenerate it. We see that it appears that Tobi himself has pieces of Zetsu in him. You CAN'T just overlook this. Obviously there's a reason behind this. What else do we know that Tobi has, Senju dna? This implies that his body has been severely operated on. I mean what would happen if parts of Zetsu was to take over someone's body? No one really knows. But aging shouldn't seem too impossible when someone's body consist of so many unusual DNAs. Heck, kabuto just had the freaking sound 5 come out his body. There's already so many strange things in this manga.

    And there's clearly an "aging" issue with Madara. Which I already mentioned. It basically proves that age-manipulation is indeed possible.



    This can be countered with the fact that half of his body would have been badly damaged in the incident. He may not even remember who he was anymore. Not to mention potential brainwashing from Madara.


    I know some of my points are based on assumptions. But when you view it objectively and with an open mind, you'll see there's a "possibility" that Obito's body may be involved.


    Note: I also find it very interesting Kishi has decided to put Kakashi there with Naruto when Tobi may reveal his identity. Like I said, I think there's a great possibility that it will turn out to be Obito's body at least.

    To add to this old post of mine, one of the biggest arguments aside from Obito being crushed is tha the timeline between Madara and Tobi working together doesn't match with Obito's timeline. What readers fail to see however is that Kishi never gave any solid proof as to when Tobi and Madar actually met. There's absolutely none...

    Another argument is why would Madara choose a half dying kid to ressurect him? It actually makes perfect sense that he would. If he was able to brainwash Obito with his own ideals throughout his earlier years, mentor him, and then place Zetsu there with him after he's gone. Then trusting a kid whose been trained to follow your way is much more guaranteeing that trusting an adult whose already mature enough to have his own view of how the shinobi world should be.

    I mean one miscalculation in their character and ideals, and he's not being ressurected...

    I'm almost certain Madara thought of this.

    And then there's the bigger issue of Obito's death. Miracles happen even in real life though, people living with disfigured body parts because of terrible accidents. I don't know why it's so impossible to believe that it's possible in a manga lol. Especially when there' a tech like the rinnegan.


    Well that's all. ^^ Though I'm slowly developing another theory (Obito and the elder son involved) but have to think on it some more.



    Okay, thought about it, and here's what I came up with.


    __________________________________________________ ______
    THEORY 2


    Tobi is indeed the elder son, but is using Obito's body. Okay, Madara took his brother's eyes and gained EMS, and then went back to read the stone. But what he saw was more than details about the Sharingan left by the so6p, he saw something the elder son left himself, the details on how to ressurect him and his aid in th reader's quest for more power. Afterall, anyone who has obtained the EMS and seeks further knowledge by reading the stone is without a doutb seeking more power. The elder son knew this, and used it to guarantee his return.

    But he came back "incomplete", in other words he was very weak, and paled in comparison to Madara's strength...

    However, he had a rinnegan of his own. They came up with a plan (I will mention later), this plan involved the creation of Zetsu. Anyways, he told Madara he must have a near death experiece. But Hashi actually KILLED Madara, afterall, it's unlikely that Hashi wasn't sure that he was dead. What he didn't know...is that the elder son was alive and possessed the eyes we know as the rinnegan. The elder son ressurected Madara, but he couldn't have done so without consuming lots of chakra from an already weak body (or whatever the heck he was). So Zetsu, who can replenish chakra was created from an experiement on how "Tobi" (Getting tired of saying elder son) could survive the depletion of chakra as a result from using the rinne tensei.

    After this, Madara had the rinnegan which he unlocked just before he died. He either consumed hashi's cells ro lived naturally. Anyway he lived to meet Nagato, this boy was just perfect, he was an Uzumaki who possessed lots of chakra. And since Tobi wasn't in the condition to actually handle the rinnegan, he passed it on to Nagato.

    Tobi and Madara then planned for Madara's ressurection later, but there was something Madara and Tobi had to do, get Tobi a more suitable body than what he had...

    This is where Obito comes in at, Madara then used his own rinnegan to revive Obito. And some unknown technique was used that allowed Tobi to enter his body. Depending on the effects caused by this tech, Obito may have aged from this, Madara then passed on. And then Tobi makes his attack (along with his new found techs from obito's sharingan) on the Leaf.

    Haha, it's just a theory.
     
         
    Last edited by Pleiades; 07-20-2012 at 08:18 PM.

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions



    Tobi's height: 175 cm
    Tobi's weight: 55.9 kg

    Izuna's height: 174.8 cm
    Izuna's weight: 55.9 kg

    Also, there is virtually no difference between them in height since we're talking in terms of centimeters.
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Elder son, elder son, elder son, elder son...

    Nuff said.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    I'm leading towards Kagami, who I chose in the poll.

    One thing I know for sure is that Tobi is not Obito. If he was then Kishi will be absolutely hammered by the community in outrage.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    He's Kagami Uchiha
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    I wasted my post on ramen guy, let's see how that goes ;-)
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Quote Originally Posted by -Yami- View Post
    Oh..this is awesome, here we go.





    To add to this old post of mine, one of the biggest arguments aside from Obito being crushed is tha the timeline between Madara and Tobi working together doesn't match with Obito's timeline.
    What readers fail to see however is that Kishi never gave any solid proof as to when Tobi and Madar actually met. There's absolutely none...

    Another argument is why would Madara choose a half dying kid to ressurect him? It actually makes perfect sense that he would. If he was able to brainwash Obito with his own ideals throughout his earlier years, mentor him, and then place Zetsu there with him after he's gone. Then trusting a kid whose been trained to follow your way is much more guaranteeing that trusting an adult whose already mature enough to have his own view of how the shinobi world should be.

    I mean one miscalculation in their character and ideals, and he's not being ressurected...

    I'm almost certain Madara thought of this.

    And then there's the bigger issue of Obito's death. Miracles happen even in real life though, people living with disfigured body parts because of terrible accidents. I don't know why it's so impossible to believe that it's possible in a manga lol. Especially when there' a tech like the rinnegan.


    Well that's all. ^^ Though I'm slowly developing another theory (Obito and the elder son involved) but have to think on it some more.
    It's got nothing to do with them working together, its Obito's timeline. He would have had to give Nagato the Rinnegan when he was just a child. Obito was not born then so he cannot be Tobi. That's all the evidence I need to know. Please explain to me how it's possible for a kid born a whole generation later than Nagato could have given the Rinnegan to him (2 generations ago).
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Quote Originally Posted by vUmbrav View Post
    It's got nothing to do with them working together, its Obito's timeline. He would have had to give Nagato the Rinnegan when he was just a child. Obito was not born then so he cannot be Tobi. That's all the evidence I need to know. Please explain to me how it's possible for a kid born a whole generation later than Nagato could have given the Rinnegan to him (2 generations ago).

    well I actually given another theory. But anyways, perhaps Madara gave it to him? o_O
     
         

  15. #15
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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    I love how people continue to debunk all Obito theories with "thats retarded" then counter with "It's probably [some guy who was mentioned once, pictured once, and has absolutely no development or characterization whatsoever]."

    Kagami would be a million times dumber than Obito, and Obito is already pretty dumb.

    Reasons it could be Kagami:
    -He's had no development.
    -He's 'shrouded in mystery' (see: the manga hasn't ever talked about him because he's totally unimportant)

    Reasons it could be Obito:
    -Similar jutsu to Kakashi, jutsu that nobody else in the entire Uchiha clan seems aware of, even Madara.
    -It's been hinted for a long time, ie foreshadowing.
    -Obito has some development, so he isn't a non-character like Kagami.
    -Seems to know Kakashi based on comments about him being quick to open his mouth, especially since this is not a characteristic often associated with Kakashi and something only someone who has known him for a long time or knows him very well would know.
    -Lots of tension between Tobi and Kakashi in the latest chapter.
    -Some tension between Tobi and Guy, who likely would have disliked Obito when young due to the same Lee vs Sasuke reasons.
    -On the same page there is a juxtaposition between Kakashi and Tobi's eyes, and the panel involving Kakashi seemingly has absolutely zero reason to be there other than to provide that parallel between them.
    -Guy and Kakashi in general have served absolutely no storyline purpose to be in that fight, so it's very possible they're purely there for the sake of IDing Tobi.
    -Obito is pretty much the only Uchiha in the entire manga to have exhibited a silly, goofy side.
    -Similar names.
    -Similar hair.

    I'll repeat what I said in the last thread; the main reason people are discounting Obito is because of time discrepancies - this from a goddamn magical super-ninja specializing in time-space ninjutsu - and because it would be a bad twist, at which point they offer up even worse alternatives like Kagami and Shisui.

    ps: my first guess is still Izuna via copious lying, second is still Danzou via Izanagi shenanigans, third is Obito via time-space shenanigans. So I'm not an Obito theorist or whatever, but it's definitely got much, MUCH more weight than Shisui or Kagami.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Madara's son

    He didn't die after the fight so he had time to make a kid to with-hold his dreams but his son

    betraying him and wants all the glory of the moon eye plan had a thread about it but it got trashed

    yesterday
     
         
    Last edited by Uchihaninja; 07-20-2012 at 07:38 PM.

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinweiss View Post
    I love how people continue to debunk all Obito theories with "thats retarded" then counter with "It's probably [some guy who was mentioned once, pictured once, and has absolutely no development or characterization whatsoever]."

    Kagami would be a million times dumber than Obito, and Obito is already pretty dumb.

    Reasons it could be Kagami:
    -He's had no development.
    -He's 'shrouded in mystery' (see: the manga hasn't ever talked about him because he's totally unimportant)

    Reasons it could be Obito:
    -Similar jutsu to Kakashi, jutsu that nobody else in the entire Uchiha clan seems aware of, even Madara.
    -It's been hinted for a long time, ie foreshadowing.
    -Obito has some development, so he isn't a non-character like Kagami.
    -Seems to know Kakashi based on comments about him being quick to open his mouth, especially since this is not a characteristic often associated with Kakashi and something only someone who has known him for a long time or knows him very well would know.
    -Lots of tension between Tobi and Kakashi in the latest chapter.
    -Some tension between Tobi and Guy, who likely would have disliked Obito when young due to the same Lee vs Sasuke reasons.
    -On the same page there is a juxtaposition between Kakashi and Tobi's eyes, and the panel involving Kakashi seemingly has absolutely zero reason to be there other than to provide that parallel between them.
    -Guy and Kakashi in general have served absolutely no storyline purpose to be in that fight, so it's very possible they're purely there for the sake of IDing Tobi.
    -Obito is pretty much the only Uchiha in the entire manga to have exhibited a silly, goofy side.
    -Similar names.
    -Similar hair.

    I'll repeat what I said in the last thread; the main reason people are discounting Obito is because of time discrepancies - this from a goddamn magical super-ninja specializing in time-space ninjutsu - and because it would be a bad twist, at which point they offer up even worse alternatives like Kagami and Shisui.

    ps: my first guess is still Izuna via copious lying, second is still Danzou via Izanagi shenanigans, third is Obito via time-space shenanigans. So I'm not an Obito theorist or whatever, but it's definitely got much, MUCH more weight than Shisui or Kagami.
    Lists no development as a reason for Kagami not being Tobi



    Goes on to say that Obito could be Tobi.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Hopefully Izuna but it doesn't fit as well as I want it to.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinweiss View Post
    I love how people continue to debunk all Obito theories with "thats retarded" then counter with "It's probably [some guy who was mentioned once, pictured once, and has absolutely no development or characterization whatsoever]."

    Kagami would be a million times dumber than Obito, and Obito is already pretty dumb.

    Reasons it could be Kagami:
    -He's had no development.
    -He's 'shrouded in mystery' (see: the manga hasn't ever talked about him because he's totally unimportant)

    Reasons it could be Obito:
    -Similar jutsu to Kakashi, jutsu that nobody else in the entire Uchiha clan seems aware of, even Madara.
    -It's been hinted for a long time, ie foreshadowing.
    -Obito has some development, so he isn't a non-character like Kagami.
    -Seems to know Kakashi based on comments about him being quick to open his mouth, especially since this is not a characteristic often associated with Kakashi and something only someone who has known him for a long time or knows him very well would know.
    -Lots of tension between Tobi and Kakashi in the latest chapter.
    -Some tension between Tobi and Guy, who likely would have disliked Obito when young due to the same Lee vs Sasuke reasons.
    -On the same page there is a juxtaposition between Kakashi and Tobi's eyes, and the panel involving Kakashi seemingly has absolutely zero reason to be there other than to provide that parallel between them.
    -Guy and Kakashi in general have served absolutely no storyline purpose to be in that fight, so it's very possible they're purely there for the sake of IDing Tobi.
    -Obito is pretty much the only Uchiha in the entire manga to have exhibited a silly, goofy side.
    -Similar names.
    -Similar hair.

    I'll repeat what I said in the last thread; the main reason people are discounting Obito is because of time discrepancies - this from a goddamn magical super-ninja specializing in time-space ninjutsu - and because it would be a bad twist, at which point they offer up even worse alternatives like Kagami and Shisui.

    ps: my first guess is still Izuna via copious lying, second is still Danzou via Izanagi shenanigans, third is Obito via time-space shenanigans. So I'm not an Obito theorist or whatever, but it's definitely got much, MUCH more weight than Shisui or Kagami.
    So much speculation. You don't honestly believe that Tobi has the ability to go through time at will do you? It's not Time magic bro, gimme a break. Like I said earlier, no one would mind it being Obito if it was possible that it could be him. It's a plot hole if it was. You can't literally MAKE UP a reason for HOW Obito could have done it. That has no basis and therefore is far less likely to be true. You're being willfully ignorant about this.

    You also have no basis whatsoever besides saying we don't anything about Kagami? That's ridiculous. We know just as much about Kagami as we do Obito if you really think about it. All we know about Obito is he died with a rock on half his body and gave his Sharingan to Kakashi. Plus no one has ever mentioned the fact that it took Kakashi quite a while to awaken his MS but somehow Tobi was trained by Madara to become all powerful. This is stretch after stretch after stretch in these theories. How could you possibly expect it to be accurate with so many guesses? The best part about the Kagami theory is that there are very few of those in it. It's open to possibility so it can't be counted out. I base my thoughts on how things CAN'T be not the things that COULD be.

    The Zetsu clone theory is almost as stupid as the Obito theory because it's also speculation.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Obito is dead.

    Logically speaking, he CANNOT be older than the age he died at. Why? Because he is dead. Obito died as a young teenager as part of Team Minato.

    Team Minato consisted of Minato (4th Hokage), Kakashi, Obito and Rin. Also, Obito has one eye. One of the eyes he gave to Kakashi before his death inside a cave which collapsed. There is no way any other Uchiha or any other villian could know of where Obito was burried. With the battle with Konan/Tobi and the conversation with Sauske/Tobi underground, both times his identity was revealed. In both times it clearly showed TWO eyes.

    During the confrontation with Kabuto and Tobi. Kabuto greeted Tobi and asked, "So...You're going by the name Madara Uchiha now, eh?" That should give a big indication that Tobi ISN'T Madara

    Tobi was part of 2nd Hokages team (TOBIrama) and who was part of that team? Uchiha kagami and Danzo. At some point we can assume he went missing. At some point we can assume during the Uchiha Massacre he returned to retrieve sharingan's from his family members. At this point his identity is now tobi and to activate the Sharingan it needs to be activated by the user when they are faced with a difficult circumstance or placed under emotional stress. I'm pretty sure for it to evolve An Uchiha has to implant another into his own eyes from a fellow uchiha bloodline. At some point Danzo and Tobi met secretly to make a pact one can assume and that Tobi during the current Ninja War during a convo with Guy mentioned he was always a loud mouth, assuming they have history together.

    Madara isn't Tobi because Madara died in battle with 1st hokage. Madara was resurrected fully not until recently during the current ninja war.

    If it isn't Kagami than it's Shisui Uchiha.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    I never said he has time traveling. I mean, he could, but I highly doubt Kishi would sink that low. If it is Obito it's likely he got stuck in his little pocket dimension for some time, and that time flows differently there, see also: Tsukuyomi. Accidentally sucking himself into his void would explain the time difference, how he survived, and it would've given him plenty of alone time in agony; remember that Tsukuyomi's entire purpose is to screw up peoples' heads, effectively doing it to himself for a few years would certainly account for the difference in personality.

    Obito got a fair bit of development in the Kakashi Gaiden. We got to actually see his character, he had some spotlight, he had some development. What has Kagami had? He was mentioned in some flashbacks. Obito's page in the naruto wiki is literally four times the size of Kagami's page. Shisui likewise had a few couple-page flashbacks that looked at him, from memory. Obito got the second-main character spot in a gaiden that lasted, what, 5 chapters? Something like that? That's a colossal amount more development than either of them so don't pretend Obito is just as unimportant, he's still a very minor character but there's minor then there's nonexistent. Kagami's an extra and Shisui exists purely in "Itachi did this" flashbacks.

    The only reason Kagami has less things conflicting the explanation is because there's less things about him period. Remember that cat that Team 7 caught on one of their first missions? That's how important Kagami is, that's how much screen time he's had.

    Plot holes can be explained by convenient Sharingan magic, but even the Sharingan can't make up for zero development. Though if Kishi tried to say that Kagami had seen plenty of spotlight but Izanami's power was to hypnotize readers I would honestly give him some credit for trying.

    We're talking about someone (Uchihas) whose entire ability theme is hypnotism. You really can't take anything at face value, whether it's being crushed by boulders, talking to someone you might be, or getting stabbed through the chest. Given that just about ANYTHING could be explained by one of the Sharingan's existing abilities, let alone one we may be yet to see, reasons why someone COULD be Tobi hold far more weight than reasons they couldn't be.

    "Obito can't be Tobi because we think he died, unlike Kagami who we think died."
     
         
    Last edited by Shinweiss; 07-20-2012 at 09:31 PM.

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Has to be the older son
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Obito shouldn't even be an option ... those who follow the manga properly know that it's not possible solely for the timeline reason + logical reasons.
    Future Sasuke is missing OP
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Everything Tobi said to Konan was a lie ,as it wasn't him who gave Nagato the renigaan
    or helped Yahiko and Nagato form akatsuki,,it was the real Madara who did all those things and he Tobi knows about that What if Tobi has ever met Madara,maybe he heard his plan and wanted to do it himself and we all know Tobi knows a lot about people like Itachi ,Kakashi . Guy....etc
    Also, isn't it strange that we've never seen his normal eye not sharingan? and when he used izanagi he eye closed like Danzo's many sharingans but when Itachi used a very similar tech.in izanami his eye lost it's light but didn't close,What could this mean???
    All in all I've always thought that he's Kagami don't ask, just go read the 'omg Tobi' thread.
     
         

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    Re: Final (We hope) Countdown. Tobi ID theories and discsussions

    Criteria For Tobi’s Identity

    1) He is from the time of Hashirama Senju, and needs to be someone the Kyuubi would instantly recognize.

    He is instantly recognized by the Kyuubi, who as far as we know has been sealed away in an Uzumaki jinchuuriki ever since the battle at the Valley of the End, where Uzumaki Mito sealed it into herself. There are no reports of the Kyuubi having broken free aside from in Yondaime’s time. This means that Tobi is someone the Kyuubi met during the time of Hashirama.

    Given the way in which he speaks of past events, he has first-hand knowledge of and was emotionally investment in the Uchiha/Senju conflict.

    Izuna fits: Uchiha Izuna was from this time period, and for obvious reasons, was personally and emotionally invested in fighting the Senju.

    2) He has to have a credible reason for being pissed off at the Uchiha’s making peace with the Senju, and needs to be personally, emotionally invested in Uchiha Izuna’s eyes being given to Uchiha Madara.

    “What kind of monster would hurt his beloved younger brother?! All I ever wanted was to protect the Uchiha clan! […] My younger brother accepted his role and willingly gave his eyes to me….[Tobi clenches his arms in anger]. What happened to the hatred we had for them?! What did my brother sacrifice his eyes for?!”

    Izuna fits: He has ample reason to be pissed off at the Uchiha, even more so than Uchiha Madara; he sacrificed his eyes and possibly his life to give Madara the EMS in order to protect the Uchiha in their fight against the Senju, only to have them go and make peace? Why did he sacrifice his eyes and his life for them, then?!

    3) He has a credible reason for claiming that the eyes Nagato had “were [his] to begin with.”

    Izuna fits: If we accept the likelihood that Nagato’s eyes used to be Uchiha Madara’s (who is the only person we know which awakened the Rinnegan), then we also accept that Nagato’s eyes originally belonged to Uchiha Izuna’s, as we know that Uchiha Madara’s EMS eyes originally belonged to Izuna. Izuna fits this perfectly; no one else has a better credible reason to claim Nagato’s eyes “were his to begin with” than Izuna.

    4) He needs to be a person whom Uchiha Madara will trust with his own life and rebirth.

    Madara trusted Tobi to bring him back to life with Nagato’s powers. This is a major deal. Who would the great Uchiha Madara trust with his own life?

    If we accept Madara’s statement that he awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death, then this also means that he had only a very short period of time to transplant the Rinnegan into child Nagato. This means that he was 100%, utterly dependent on Tobi to carry out the ‘plan’ he mentioned to Kabuto, which included his resurrection.

    Madara also gave Tobi access to the Hashirama-related power which he had nearly died for; an incredible show of trust.

    Izuna fits: He is Uchiha Madara’s younger brother, and brotherly ties are a major focal point of this manga. We know that Rinnei Tensei can bring the dead back to life, and we know that Uchiha Madara gained the Rinnegan before dying. It would make sense if he used the Rinnegan to bring back Izuna.

    Counter-Argument: Nagato wasn’t able to bring back Jiraiya because he had died too long ago! How could Madara bring back Izuna, who had died even longer ago!

    Response: Uchiha Madara planned to use Nagato to bring himself back to life. If we accept that Madara died while Nagato was a child (which is necessary, as Nagato was given the Rinnegan as a child), and that Nagato was expected to ‘grow’ into his power, then this shows Madara thought it was fully possible for Nagato to resurrect him, despite years having passed. Which indicates that it is also fully possible for Madara to resurrect Izuna, despite years having passed.

    5) He needs to have a credible grudge against Konoha, and has to have waited a long time for his vengeance against Konoha.
    Spoken to Kushina: “Do you have any idea how long I’ve waited for this moment?!”

    Izuna fits: His reason for a grudge against Konoha are obvious and profound; he gave his eyes to fight against the Senju who controlled the village, then eventually expelled his brother out from it. If we accept that he died or was maimed back in Hashirama’s days, then he has been waiting a long, long time indeed for his vengeance.

    6) Tobi needs to be an Uchiha.

    Although not Madara, Tobi still needs to have an Uchiha’s body; he uses the sharingan with expertise not seen outside a native Uchiha, and does not appear to have any problems with his body not being suited for the sharingan.

    Izuna fits: Self-explanatory.

    7) Tobi has to have a credible reason for being at least partly made out of Zetsu goo, even as far back as the fight with Yondaime.

    Izuna somewhat fits: Tobi claims that Uchiha Izuna died in battle after losing his eyes. Knowing that Rinnei Tensi is capable of bringing the dead back, and also knowing that Zetsu goo is based off of Hashirama’s DNA, it’s credible that for Madara to bring Izuna back, he had to use Zetsu goo for whatever reason. Admittedly, more data is required here.

    8) He has an old, wrinkly face, despite being partially made out of Zetsu goo.

    Izuna fits: If we accept that Izuna was brought back to life with the Rinnegan while Nagato was a child, then at least 30+ years have passed, as we know that Nagato (being Jiraiya’s first disciple) should be as old or older than Minato. If Izuna was brought back in a partially ‘real’ body which aged, and if he had died in his 20’s, then he would now be in his 50’s or 60’s, explaining the wrinkly face. This is also supported by the fact that he indicates if Itachi knew some of his secrets, the Amaterasu would have killed him, indicating that at least part of him was non-Zetsu goo and thus vulnerable to being killed.
     
         

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