Elemental Combinations

[Izuna Uchiha]

How to efficiently use Elemental Combinations

In this thread I will try to clarify the usage of elemental combinations and correct any false ideology associated with them. I will go through many common combinations to make myself as clear as possible. However, it is important for all of you to understand that there is no general rule that can be applied to each and every situation when Role Playing. You will have to use your logic in many occasions, and this thread is simply a guide for those who want to learn the basics of this logic.

Let us start at the very beginning, the elemental weaknesses and advantages of every element:

Fire
-Weak to water
-Strong against wind

Water
-Weak against earth
-Strong against fire

Earth
-Weak against lightning
-Strong against water

Lightning
-Weak against wind
-Strong against earth

Wind
-Weak against fire
-Strong against lightning

I am sure many, if not all of you, know about those, nonetheless it’s important to remind them to everyone.

Now when it comes to elemental combination, those weaknesses and strength are extremely important since they define which elements will pairs to form a combination. Some element can mix, and some can’t. This is normally based on the nature of the element. Here are the most common combination of elements:

-Fire and Wind creates a bigger, stronger fire.

**When a fire and a wind jutsu of the same rank are shot by two shinobi facing each other, the result won't be a stronger fire jutsu continuing forward, but instead it'll be a weakened fire jutsu (one rank lower then it originally was).
**When a fire jutsu clash with a one rank higher wind jutsu, they will both cancel each other out. If higher then one rank, the wind will overpower the fire. However, there are exceptions; for further details continue the reading.


(Further explanation on my reasoning of the Fire/Wind clash can be found in the spoiler bellow)

The way I see the fire and wind clashing is like putting too much air into a flame, it won't do any good. However, when a wind jutsu merge from behind it only add to both jutsus momentum, reinforcing each other. I can't think of a jutsu getting stronger as he clashes with another one and loses speed. I know Fire is the elemental weakness of wind, but we shouldn't see it as fire and fuel. Air is only good for fire in certain proportion, let's not forget that.

-Water and Lightning, though not related in the weakness and strength chart, can be used together as water conduct the electricity.

-Water and Earth are very rarely used because of some restrictions with the Mud element, but when use with two separate jutsu, one can create mud.

-Fire and Earth, again those two elements are rarely combined because they are associated with Lava release which is a patented CE. Nonetheless, there’s no restriction against using both a fire and an earth jutsu separately to create lava.

Of course there are many more combinations which are possible, but I only wish to cover the most commonly used.

Now that the basics are covered, let’s cut to the core; how strong is a combination, how to counter, what rank should it be considered.

Let’s begin by establishing some ground rules;

-An A-rank combined with another A-rank does not give you a forbidden rank; it gives you the equivalent of an S-rank jutsu. Two B-rank will give you an A-rank, so on and so forth.

-Non linear combinations such as: B-rank combined with A-rank, will result in an S-rank jutsu. Since it would be debatable whether or not it’s considered an S-rank or an A-rank, we assume it’s the stronger of the two. This way, when defending, you’ll always be safe and no debate will arise. Again, when making a combination of two jutsu which differ by one rank, the resulting jutsu is one rank above the stronger of the two.

-The only exception applies to S-ranked jutsus. When combining an S-rank with another S-rank or an S-rank with an A-rank jutsu, it doesn’t become a Forbidden rank technique. By definition, a Forbidden technique requires that the user suffers severe damage when performing the technique. Hence, those two combinations will only result in a very strong S-rank jutsu.

Example:

S+S= Very strong S-rank jutsu
S+A= Strong S-rank jutsu
A+A=S-rank jutsu
A+B=S-rank jutsu
B+B=A-rank jutsu
B+C=A-rank jutsu
C+C=B-rank jutsu
C+D=B-rank jutsu
D+D=C-rank jutsu

For the Range criteria, the same logic applies when mixing two different types, inversly however. We need to keep in mind that what primarily defines the range of a jutsu is both it's momentum (if it's a projectile) and the "intent" of the jutsu. By "intent" I mean it's goal. For example, the Chidori isn't meant to be a Mid-Long range technique at first (the one Kakashi uses), although it does require a lot of chakra. Since the momentum and speed of a jutsu won't change if he is mixed with another jutsu of same momentum and speed, only faster or slower jutsu afects the range. In other word, only heterogenous compinations will have an impact on the range, homogeneous combinations keep the same range. Also, we will follow the same logic as with the rank of jutsus; when unsure wheter is should be higher or lower, we always assume higher in order to avoid debates. So, we could define the range of a combination this way:

Long Range + Long Range = Long Range
Long Range + Mid Range = Long Range
Long Range + Short Range = Mid Range
Mid Range + Mid Range = Mid Range
Mid Range + Short Range = Mid Range
Short Range + Short Range = Short Range

As for the special case that is the combination between water an lightning, it is a false assumption that lighting can travel indefinetly through water. However, for the purpose of our RP, when using a water and a lightning jutsu in combination, the whole water jutsu is then electrified.

Example:

Ninja 1 and his clone use both those jutsu at the same time, creating a water lightning combination:

(Suiton: Suigandan) - Water Style: Water Fang Bullet

Rank: C
Range: Short
Type: Offense
Chakra Cost: 15
Damage Points: 30
Description: The user gathers water in his/her mouth and then shoots out multiple spherical projectiles.


(Raiton: Kangekiha) – Lightning Release: Wave of Inspiration

Rank: B
Type: Offensive
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 25
Damage point: 30 (normally) 50 (when used in conjunction with water technique)
Description: After using a Water Style technique, the user releases a wave of electricity that can electrocute any water within range, electrocuting and knocking back an opponent in contact with the water. When used without a water technique, its power is moderate. The technique can be used extremely quickly, so that it finishes almost in conjunction with the previous jutsu.

I chose this example very carefully. Notice that the range of the water is "Short Range", but the lightning is a "Short-Mid" range jutsu. Would their combination become a mid range attack? No. When using water and lightning in combination, remember that water vehiculate the lightning, not the opposite. So, when using water and lightning in combinations, THE RANGE OF WATER IS THE OVERALL RANGE OF THE COMBINATION.

Now the other posibility is using lightning on a vaste source of water (look at example below). In such a case, for the lightning to be out of range, the jutsu used must be below B-rank and the opponent must be standing long range from the user. Again, if a lightning jutsu below B-rank is used on a shinobi that is standing on a water source long range from the user, it will be ineffective.

Example:

Shinobi 1 creates a water source for both opponents to stand on:

(Suiton: Takitsubo) - Water Style: Waterfall Basin

Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra cost: 15
Damage Points: N/A
Description: This jutsu summons a large amount of water. Yamato used this technique along with Earth Release: Earth Flow Rampart to create a waterfall as an example of elemental chakra to Naruto. (No water source required)

The water starts to emerge from the ground. As soon as the field is covered in water, Shinobi 1 shoots a lightning jutsu at the water source:

(Raiton: Raikyu) - Lightning Release: Lightning Ball

Rank: C
Type: Offense
Range: Short/Mid
Chakra Cost: 15
Damage Points: 30
Description: By gathering chakra in their hands, the user can create a ball of electrical energy and launch it at the enemy.

In this case, the lightning is out of range if his opponent is standind long range from him.


Again, it is important to consider that those rules cannot be applied 100% of the time, and here is why. The rank of a technique will be based of two factors; chakra manipulation and the “size” of a jutsu. Some jutsu, as you may or may not know, require extreme precision when molding the chakra. The rasengan is the most eloquent example. The difficulty with this jutsu isn’t to gather a massive amount of chakra and shoot it out at the opponent, it’s to mold the chakra into one of the most compact and destructive jutsu shown in the Manga. Because of this, it is considered A-rank.

Now consider the opposite; a jutsu that requires close to no chakra manipulation but only creates an element in massive amount. Here’s an example:

Example:

(Suiton: Suishouha) - Water Style: Water Shock wave

Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 15
Damage Points: N/A
Descripton: causes a large volume of water to materialize out of nowhere. The water can then be directed at his target.

Those two factors; manipulation and size, are the corner stone when defining the rank of a jutsu.
Now that I’ve demonstrated this, I’ll explain why having a higher ranked jutsu doesn’t necessarily mean its superior to a lower ranked jutsu.

Example:

Ninja 1 use a Water Dragon to attack him opponent:

(Suiton: Suiryuudan) - Water Style: Water Dragon

Rank: B
Type: Offense
Range: Short/Long
Chakra Cost: 20
Damage Points: 40
Description: A huge rushing water projectile in the shape of a dragon that can level anything in its path.

Ninja 2, only looking at the ranks, use a Rasengan to defend:

(Rasengan) - Spiral Sphere

Rank:A
Type:Attack
Range:Short
Chakra Cost:
Damage Points:
Description: Rasengan was a Ninjutsu technique developed over the span of three years by the Fourth Hokage. The technique was taught to his sensei Jiraiya, who then passed it on to the young ninja Naruto years later. The technique is unlike many other jutsu in that it does not require any hand seals. It just relied on the ninja’s ability to mold chakra. The ninja concentrates a contained, fast, rotating sphere of chakra in the palm of their hand, which can create a destructive impact. Limit: None

It’s obvious that because of its size, the Water Dragon will hit Ninja 2, even if the technique he used was ranked higher.

Of course this is an obvious example, only to demonstrate that ranks doesn’t define the outcome between two jutsus.

Now, what does this mean when applied to elemental combinations? Well, the answer is simple; it means that even though a combination may outrank another one (or simply a jutsu), it doesn’t mean it will overpower it. Such factor as the size, the manipulation and the elemental advantage needs to be taken into account. Here’s an example:

Example:

Ninja 1 and his shadow clone use two jutsu at the same time:

Fuuton: Senpuuken (Wind Style: Hurricane Fist)

Type:Attack
Rank: B
Range:Short-Mid
Chakra Cost:20
Damage Points:40
Description: A vortex of wind shot out of the users fist wind he/she punches.


(Katon: Bakuhatsu Enhogan) – Fire Style: Exploding Flame Shots

Rank: B
Type: Attack
Range: Mid
Chakra cost: 20
Damage points: 40
Description: The user shoots multiple fire shots from their hands that are able to cause fiery explosions on impact with any object. The shots can't set the opponent on fire, though they can cause damage by exploding on him.

As both the jutsus mix to create bigger and stronger fire shots, Ninja 2 use:

(Suiton: Suishouha) - Water Style: Water Shock wave

Rank: C
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 15
Damage Points: N/A
Descripton: causes a large volume of water to materialize out of nowhere. The water can then be directed at his target.

Causing a massive amount of water to materialize in front of him, which he then directs at the incoming fire projectiles. Those fire shots will then be drown in this giant wave that’s heading toward Ninja 1.

Smaller water techniques could have been evaporated, but in this case, it would have required a stronger and bigger fire technique. In fact, there are two important things to notice here as to why the fire lost to the water; the first being the elemental weakness, the second being that the fire jutsu was classified as B-rank because of the chakra manipulation required in creating several smaller fire projectile instead of one big.

I hope you now understand that a combination can, most of the time, be classified with a rank and countered accordingly, but that some other time you have to actually look what the jutsu looks like and what it does. You’ll notice far too often people rely only on the rank and start endless debate because they don’t understand how lower ranked jutsu could counter theirs.

I hope this thread was useful to you, that you’ll now use your logic when fighting and that you’ll try and understand a jutsu when using it other than simply shooting them at each other. I’ll gladly respond to any comments bellow.

~Approved by Nexus and Zenryoku~

[Wesobi]

Very clear thread once again, Izuna-sama.
This wil definitely help me out!

[Taiketsu Yagami]

Nice! I needed that info. (I'll delete my post if u wan't me to)

[Izuna Uchiha]

Thk both of you, and no need to delete your post, the thread is still open to discussion ^^

[Sanji..]

Wonderful explanation, once again you have outdone yourself, Izuna.

[-Haku Yuki-]

nice that will help greaty in battle as many people make these mistakes plus rep

[Izuna Uchiha]

Thk guys ^^

[RokuNR]

Well done, Izuna ^_^

[-Haku Yuki-]

stickly this thread

[Lili-Chwan]

I disagree with your depiction of two colliding jutsus. I disagree that, for example, Fire doesn't consume the wind jutsu.

[The Seven-Scaled boy]

I loved it Izuna, thanks a lot ^^

Yet I have my doubts with when wind and fire clash from opposite directions.The fire would lose momentum, yet would the concentrated air permit the fire to grow stronger? Putting it bluntly, when equal forces clash and one of them begins to grow, wouldn't that one overpower it? what I'm trying to say is: wouldn't the fire the fire would begin to get intenser when they clash?

@rasengan thing: Rasengan not only performs damage by crashing but also a sort of cocoon of rotating chakra once it hits (we've seen it twice, once against itachi another time against kabuto). What would the effects of that cocoon of chakra be? wouldn't they make the water dragon bullet go around it thus allowing you to survive safe and sound?

[Izuna Uchiha]

I disagree with your depiction of two colliding jutsus. I disagree that, for example, Fire doesn't consume the wind jutsu.

That's why I left this thread open, so we could discuss ^^

Explain why and I'll change it if you make your point.

[-Hatake-]

Awesome man, really detailed explanation, This should be stickied.

[Izuna Uchiha]

I loved it Izuna, thanks a lot ^^

Yet I have my doubts with when wind and fire clash from opposite directions.The fire would lose momentum, yet would the concentrated air permit the fire to grow stronger? Putting it bluntly, when equal forces clash and one of them begins to grow, wouldn't that one overpower it? what I'm trying to say is: wouldn't the fire the fire would begin to get intenser when they clash?

@rasengan thing: Rasengan not only performs damage by crashing but also a sort of cocoon of rotating chakra once it hits (we've seen it twice, once against itachi another time against kabuto). What would the effects of that cocoon of chakra be? wouldn't they make the water dragon bullet go around it thus allowing you to survive safe and sound?

Thk, well let's discuss

The way I see the fire and wind clashing is like putting too much air into a flame, it won't do any good.

However, when a wind jutsu merge from behind it only had to both jutsus momentum, reinforcing each other. I can't think of a jutsu getting stronger as he clashes with another one and lose speed.

I know Fire is the elemental weakness of wind, but we shouldn't see it as fire and fuel. Air is good for fire in certain proportion, let's not forget that.

As for the rasengan, I believe he would drill in the dragon, but the water would still clash on him. It's the distinction I'm trying to make between size and power. If it was an earth dragon, would it deviate it? Maybe because it's more tangible, but water will just start to spin as it crashed on the ninja using the rasengan.

[Scorps]

Thank you izuna! Again you created a very usefull thread!

[Lili-Chwan]

I loved it Izuna, thanks a lot ^^

Yet I have my doubts with when wind and fire clash from opposite directions.The fire would lose momentum, yet would the concentrated air permit the fire to grow stronger? Putting it bluntly, when equal forces clash and one of them begins to grow, wouldn't that one overpower it? what I'm trying to say is: wouldn't the fire the fire would begin to get intenser when they clash?

@rasengan thing: Rasengan not only performs damage by crashing but also a sort of cocoon of rotating chakra once it hits (we've seen it twice, once against itachi another time against kabuto). What would the effects of that cocoon of chakra be? wouldn't they make the water dragon bullet go around it thus allowing you to survive safe and sound?

I think it would generate enough power to blast the water away, specially if used at an angle.




I'm not in the mood to argue, it would require searching for a manga chapter at what not. I've always thought about what you said, and I always wondered if the momentum of each technique wouldn't get affected, but I've always went with the consuming teh wind and grow stronger situation.

[Izuna Uchiha]

I think it would generate enough power to blast the water away, specially if used at an angle.




I'm not in the mood to argue, it would require searching for a manga chapter at what not. I've always thought about what you said, and I always wondered if the momentum of each technique wouldn't get affected, but I've always went with the consuming teh wind and grow stronger situation.

About the Rasengan: In any case, my goal was to show the differences between size and manipulation. There can be two technique of equal rank, but one will overpower the other because of it's nature.

As for the fire; I stand by what I said. For now, it's the most logical outcome.

[Mathias]

Great thread man.. It will surely help me out in the future ^.^

[Gin-San]

This is good
I hate fighting with people that do not use common sense and just go with A rank earth > S rank water, when both of the jutsus are totally different.

AN example would be
Small Fireball Rank D = Great Break through Rank C
Common sense says that thw wind is to strong for a small fireball to fight.

But the rules say D rank fire > C rank wind
people think that it doesn't matter what technique it is as long it follows the rules without using logic what so ever
It sucks -.-

[Scorps]

This is good
I hate fighting with people that do not use common sense and just go with A rank earth > S rank water, when both of the jutsus are totally different.

AN example would be
Small Fireball Rank D = Great Break through Rank C
Common sense says that thw wind is to strong for a small fireball to fight.

But the rules say D rank fire > C rank wind
people think that it doesn't matter what technique it is as long it follows the rules without using logic what so ever
It sucks -.-

Thats one of those "iffy" questions.

Another question one can ask is about "multiple shot jutsu" (P.e. (Raiton: Gian) - Lightning Style: False Darkness or (Katon: Gouryuuka No Jutsu) - Fire Style: Great Dragon Fire [this doesn't even state how many fireballs]): whats the power of each shot? Its important to know cause of countering.

Imagine your opponent uses ONE (Katon: Gouryuuka No Jutsu) - Fire Style: Great Dragon Fire, casting two fireballs to aim at TWO (Fūton: Shinkū Taigyoku) – Wind Release: Great Balls of Wind done at the same time? The fire is A-Rank, meaning that it could cancel an S-Rank wind jutsu right? But, is each fire ball A-Rank? if not...they can't cancel each of them one jutsu. If they are, they can.

[Migualon J.J.]

very nice, thank you very much

[Anduril]

Well very nice work Izuna sama but i have certain questions related to the same topic but about a different attribute...
please explain the range of combinational jutsus...

• I mean if supposedly a short range fire jutsu is used in combination with a long range wind jutsu will it reach the long range or will the flame die at mid range?

• Now my second combinational range question is supposedly we use lightning jutsu in combination with a suiton jutsu please explain to me with examples upto what range will this go?? I mean water conducts electricity almost indefinitely so as long as the source supplies electricity the entire water source should be electrocuted??

Please reply Izuna sama....

[Super Kami Guru]

extremely helpful thread had alot of questions about combos like these

[Igneel]

sensei an informative thread as always...but not quite sure about the wind and fire jutsu combo....

[Sominus]

Really, really, great work! Wonderful explanation and very helpful.