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  1. #41
    Dark King d3v Rot's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by nj tandi View Post
    Ok,I read it up on Wikipedia and I say heck no.
    However,it is essential to impress on children that the evidence and principles of science are by no means set it in stone.They are constantly evolving as our knowledge and understanding increase.
    Still,I have,since I first heard of the concept,believed that the idea of all specializations being chance mutations is highly ludicrous,and is unable to account for complexity and high degree of specialisation of the biological world.
    This is now supported by the epigenome concept.
    Its not chance..its natural selection, evolution is affected by surroundings, its not random at all. This is the reason if you go to a mountain village you have trouble breathing while the people who live there do not, its small changes over time that get passed down to offspring and eventually become dominant trait, its the same reason some Crocodiles can go into fresh or salt water while others who were never around salt water cannot..same applies to certain fish, they breed in rivers but migrate to the ocean, the change doesn't bother them because there ancestors had to deal with it or die off and natural selection gave them the tools to deal with it while other species under the same pressure died off

    Cheetah and Antelope are the best example imo, the cheetah is considered the fastest land animal on the planet, the antelope is considered the most agile land animal on the planet, sometimes the cheetah catches the antelope, sometimes the antelope escapes from the cheetah, why do you think this is ? its not random at all, as the cheetah progressed to catch the antelope; the antelope progressed to out maneuver the cheetah, the cheetah might be faster but the antelope can change direction better and the cheetah goes in burst while the antelope has better stamina

    Whats the odds of both of these animals being in the same area and gaining such abilities that counter each other randomly ? Nothing random about evolution


    With that being said, Intelligent design has no business in an educational facility, there is no evidence for intelligent design while there is evidence for evolution, ID says the earth is 6,000 years old...Science has already proven its far older then that; Fossils
     
         

  2. #42
    King Kai North Kai's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    ok lets have a competition

    country A: only teaches all the normal stuff in schools + everything related to science and NOTHING related to religion

    country B: normall stuff in school + everything related to religion and the Bible and NOTHING related to science in any way

    which country comes out on top?
     
         

  3. #43
    Senior Member Anorien16's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Right, but evolution without a creator has the same problem. Look up "A Universe from Nothing", the dude explains how stuff is popping in and out of existance...but it's never explained as to where it's coming from, how it's creating itself, etc. So the whole thing is just shoving the answer further back so it's harder to answer...making the theory (which it's still a theory mind you) seem sound by making the next question more difficult.

    In I.D. the Creator did not have to be created...He was always there...hence his name which mean "I was, I am and I will always be".
    Well your wrong there, if anyone actually ever read the Big Bang they would know that there was not 'something from nothing' scenario, but rather one something to many something scenerio . . . it say that the material world was concentrated in a single point and that thing expanded but never says from where the matter/energy originated. Also according to the Law of Conservation of Mass/energy, mass or energy can neither be created nor be destroyed only be converted from one form to another . . . . so much like God, mass/energy is supposed to be eternal.

    Another thing Evolutionists has nothing to do with either cosmology or geology . . . so keep people to their proper place.

    And that dude is actually right: some sub atomic particles do pop in and out of existence but not without any rules . . . its either Annihilation (matter to energy) or Matter Creation (Energy to matter) or some similar events that cause these.

    Also truth is often enough stranger than fiction, just because its difficult to understand does not mean its impossible. But honestly speaking how many people understands how a plane flies or a computer works? they all are difficult theories but are they untrue?
     
         
    Last edited by Anorien16; 08-04-2012 at 07:48 PM.

  4. #44
    TheOriginalFatPapi ShishaMastah420's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Right, but evolution without a creator has the same problem. Look up "A Universe from Nothing", the dude explains how stuff is popping in and out of existance...but it's never explained as to where it's coming from, how it's creating itself, etc. So the whole thing is just shoving the answer further back so it's harder to answer...making the theory (which it's still a theory mind you) seem sound by making the next question more difficult.

    In I.D. the Creator did not have to be created...He was always there...hence his name which mean "I was, I am and I will always be".
    Evolution doesn't propose the idea of whom created; Simply what happened to the created....

    I.D, IMO, makes no sense...

    Intelligent Design uses the Watchmaker analogy(The argument states that design implies a designer) and applies it to large scale; The Universe.

    Well for something/someone to have created something with such a complex design as a Human being this implies that the creator itself/himself/herself must be on a greater level of complexity; Complexity which does not deter our own universal set of logic but bend them; Going by this the Creator must have a Creator...Because since were too complex to evolve into being then our Creator is way too complex to just poof into being...

    One of the fundamental laws of the universe is that every action has a reaction; Intelligent Design proposes the idea that there was a Reaction without an Action...Then this reaction caused an Action...
     
         
    Last edited by ShishaMastah420; 08-04-2012 at 07:59 PM.

  5. #45
    Dark King d3v Rot's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anorien16 View Post
    Well your wrong there, if anyone actually ever read the Big Bang they would know that there was not 'something from nothing' scenario, but rather one something to many something scenerio . . . it say that the material world was concentrated in a single point and that thing expanded but never says from where the matter/energy originated. Also according to the Law of Conservation of Mass/energy, mass or energy can neither be created nor be destroyed only be converted from one form to another . . . . so much like God, mass/energy is supposed to be eternal.

    Another thing Evolutionists has nothing to do with either cosmology or geology . . . so keep people to their proper place.

    And that dude is actually right: some sub atomic particles do pop in and out of existence but not without any rules . . . its either Annihilation (matter to energy) or Matter Creation (Energy to matter) or some similar events that cause these.

    Also truth is often enough stranger than fiction, just because its difficult to understand does not mean its impossible. But honestly speaking how many people understands how a plane flies or a computer works? they all are difficult theories but are they untrue?

    Hawkins theory on universe bubbles is a nice theory on the atoms that pop in and out of existence, he just takes it to a much larger scale, stating that universes pop in and out of existence kind of like a boiling pot of water's bubbles, its just much much larger scale and lasts alot longer, we essentially know the universe is constantly expanding, like a bubble..what happens when it reaches the limit of its expansion..POP! and then repeats

    The sub atomic particles that do this follow rules as you said, what we don't know is where they go when they disappear and what makes them return, do they go into another universe or dimension or do they just convert into "dark matter" and then recombine ?
     
         

  6. #46
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi Train View Post
    Right, but evolution without a creator has the same problem. Look up "A Universe from Nothing", the dude explains how stuff is popping in and out of existance...but it's never explained as to where it's coming from, how it's creating itself, etc. So the whole thing is just shoving the answer further back so it's harder to answer...making the theory (which it's still a theory mind you) seem sound by making the next question more difficult.

    In I.D. the Creator did not have to be created...He was always there...hence his name which mean "I was, I am and I will always be".
    http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm
    First row second from the left It's named '.........!'
    Imma just copy paste it. Better safe than sorry:

    Empty your mind. We’re about to take a BIG leap into the future. Not just a lousy few billions of years, but 10 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 years!

    One ‘googol’ years, is the official word for that number. It’s the current age of the Universe, one billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion billion times over. Squeeze the entire history of our Universe into the thickness of a dollar bill, and one googol years would give you a pile of money that reaches one hundred quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion quadrillion light years high. It wouldn’t even fit in our Universe.

    One googol years. That’s truly staggering. Beyond anything a human can comprehend.

    First, let’s fast-forward to the not-so-awfully-far future. For the coming billions of years, scientists predict quite a ride. The Sun will explode, the Milky Way will slam into another galaxy. The Cosmos might collapse, or get torn apart -- scientists can’t seem to decide yet which is more likely. And even if the Universe doesn’t do that, we’re destined to face a weird and horrible crisis, which involves us spending our lifetime as sleeping robots.

    The problem is that the Universe gets bigger and cooler. Ever since the Big Bang, it expands, much like an expanding ball of fire after an explosion. Right now, the Universe is still young. It has these cute stars and twinkling galaxies. But in the long run, that will change. Slowly but inevitably, the Universe will empty itself.

    Big Nothing: Eventually, the Universe will become a dark, sterile place

    First, the galaxies will fly out of sight, beyond the horizon of what we can possibly see. Next, the stars in our own galaxy will burn out, one after the other. The only thing that will remain, is a dull graveyard of cold planets, dead suns and black holes. In about one hundred trillion years, the Milky Way will go black, astronomers expect.

    And eventually, even this graveyard decays. One after the other, the dead stars and planets are eaten by black holes, or kicked out of the Milky Way by collisions. Astronomers expect that in one hundred to one thousand billion billion years, our galaxy has dissolved completely.

    Time goes on. After a while (more trillions of years) something else will kick in. You’ll notice that even the very stuff nature is made of, isn’t stable. A proton, the particle you’ll find in the core of atoms, has an average lifetime of 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 years. Wait long enough, and it will suddenly vanish. Poof, gone. The same goes for light particles, the so-called ‘photons’. They’re expected to last a few zero’s longer, but in the end, they too will kick the bucket, one after the other. Isn’t that just bizarre? The light will go out, literally.

    The last thing that survives, are the black holes. But in the end, they too will vanish. They will evaporate in a puff of radiation.

    So there we are, at our unimaginable one googol years. Finally, the Universe is totally and utterly empty. You won’t see any light or spot any planet -- in fact, you won’t even find the tiniest speck of dust. The Universe has sterilized itself. All there is left, is emptiness, and darkness. Total oblivion. And worst of all: there’s nothing we can do to stop it. We can build fancy machines or futuristic devices all we like -- but in the end, they’ll all get kicked out of existence, when the matter they are made of simply vanishes.

    So there you have it: infinity. Booooring, we must add.

    But don’t sob. There’s an upside.

    As the quadrillions of years pass by, something very odd should happen. In eternity, even the rarest events get a chance to occur. Weird, bizarre phenomena that only happen once in a zillion years or so, become quite normal.

    For example: the nothingness should yield a few surprises. Already, physicists know that in a vacuum, there are sometimes tiny little energy ‘blobs’. Little, random fluctuations of the so-called ‘quantum vacuum’. Out of nowhere, tiny particles pop in and out of existence. But theory predicts that on very, VERY rare occasions, the fluctuations should be a bit larger. Out of nowhere, an entire atom might appear! Or hey, the vacuum may even spit out a few of them!

    Think of it like the static on TV. Wait long enough, and out of the random fuzz, a recognizable image might materialize. Wait REALLY long, and one day a complete episode of The Bold And The Beautiful should accidentally show up!

    In the Universe, this should give some really surprising results. With eternity at hand, the vacuum should begin to yield all kinds of objects. Incoherent lumps of random garbage, most of the time. But on very, very rare occasions, you’ll see other objects popping into existence. The Eiffel tower. A purple camel. A golden parking garage filled with chocolate Cadillacs. Napoleon Bonaparte sitting next to Mike Tyson on top of a stack of comic books. As the googols of years pass by, it’s all there.

    In the VERY, VERY, VERY long run, the vacuum will even belch up complete planets, and beautiful stars, burning and all. Theoretically the vacuum should even churn out a complete solar system one day, identical to ours, with a planet Earth inhabited by people. "In an infinite amount of time, one day, I will reappear", as physicist Katherine Freese of Michigan University once put it. "An crazy thought, but true."

    One day the black nothingness should even produce a new Big Bang. Admittedly, we’ll have wait really long for it to happen. Researchers of the University of Chicago once tried to calculate it. And according to their best estimates, it should happen somewhere over the next 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 years. That’s a one with 1056 zero’s. You can count them, if you like.

    (http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm)
     
         

  7. #47
    Senior Member Anorien16's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    Hawkins theory on universe bubbles is a nice theory on the atoms that pop in and out of existence, he just takes it to a much larger scale, stating that universes pop in and out of existence kind of like a boiling pot of water's bubbles, its just much much larger scale and lasts alot longer, we essentially know the universe is constantly expanding, like a bubble..what happens when it reaches the limit of its expansion..POP! and then repeats

    The sub atomic particles that do this follow rules as you said, what we don't know is where they go when they disappear and what makes them return, do they go into another universe or dimension or do they just convert into "dark matter" and then recombine ?
    Honestly man I m not Hawkins level so i dont have anything to say, but only observation of matter popping in and out of existence that i know of are Annihilation and Matter creation . . . and we actually do know what happens in those two events, they get inter converted: Matter to energy and vice varsha. Cosmolgy is a new science and its gonna take time to develop . . . thats what CERN is trying to do i guess.
     
         

  8. #48
    Member JeanstersRMB's Avatar
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    Re: Should Intelligent Design Be Thought In Schools?

    depends
     
         

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