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  1. #21
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    this

    but bro, i dont think he got ms, i rearly belive he was saved by madara himself~

    and yes its obito ~ 3 Things why Izuna cant be tobi. 1.he would not need an artifical body ~ 2. Why does he care so much about what kakashi did. Izuna wont do that shit~ 3. Izuna has simply no motivation, to bring " peace ", tobis words just make me think he is more someone whos belives where crushed, by everyone.
    1. You don't know that.
    2. Possibly because he sees Madara in Kakashi. Consider how both are similar, both made promises they couldn't keep and in Izuna's case, he died for that very promise.
    3.You don't know what his motivation is. Obito seemingly has no motivation either.
     
         

  2. #22
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    1. You don't know that.
    2. Possibly because he sees Madara in Kakashi. Consider how both are similar, both made promises they couldn't keep and in Izuna's case, he died for that very promise.
    3.You don't know what his motivation is. Obito seemingly has no motivation either.
    1 we now about that we saw izuna dead body in the manga but not obitos dead body thats a fact =/

    2. Aha and why should madara put exuses on graves of his brother? Why would Madara talk of tobi as someone refering to "his" like there relation is not really close oO read what madara says he seems not to be amused. Why should Izuna go " blind " to a bridge war and search for a sharingan of an 2 tomed uchiha? why not any other high clas uchiha with more potential? Thats stupid to think of izuna here...

    3. LOL yeah obito has no motvation... read gaiden, and read last 4 chapters if u dont can guess the motivation then...well i can say u lost bro ~

    and last but not least ~

    If The Rinnegan Tobi got is Madaras, this would mean that this eyes are orginaly izunas so why isnt he able to control his own eye fully? Huh ~
    Correct this rinnegan is either not madara or tobi is not izuna. If the Rinnegan is not madara then it proves madara could be alive till obitos " death" and rescued him. If it is Madaras Rinnegan this fully disaproves izuna theory, but not the posiblity of tobi beeing obito~

    Well The Rinnegan is the Answer~

    So if anyone says tobi is Izuna he will never be able to disaprove obito theory. cuz of this rinnegan shit would be izunas eye if madara really gave his own it to nagato ~
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 08-24-2012 at 12:57 AM.

  3. #23
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    1 we now about that we saw izuna dead body in the manga but not obitos dead body thats a fact =/

    2. Aha and why should madara put exuses on graves of his brother? Why would Madara talk of tobi as someone refering to "his" like there relation is not really close oO read what madara says he seems not to be amused. Why should Izuna go " blind " to a bridge war and search for a sharingan of an 2 tomed uchiha? why not any other high clas uchiha with more potential? Thats stupid to think of izuna here...

    3. LOL yeah obito has no motvation... read gaiden, and read last 4 chapters if u dont can guess the motivation then...well i can say u lost bro ~

    and last but not least ~

    If The Rinnegan Tobi got is Madaras, this would mean that this eyes are orginaly izunas so why isnt he able to control his own eye fully? Huh ~
    Correct this rinnegan is either not madara or tobi is not izuna. If the Rinnegan is not madara then it proves madara could be alive till obitos " death" and rescued him. If it is Madaras Rinnegan this fully disaproves izuna theory, but not the posiblity of tobi beeing obito~

    Well The Rinnegan is the Answer~

    So if anyone says tobi is Izuna he will never be able to disaprove obito theory. cuz of this rinnegan shit would be izunas eye if madara really gave his own it to nagato ~
    Before you read my response, I encourage you to at least try and think outside the box here. Consider all possibilities.

    1. It doesn't matter what we saw. If Izuna was somehow revived (assuming he actually did die) he'd need a way to modify his body to preserve his life. Also the flashback we saw him in would be inconsequential of Tobi actually WAS Izuna; wouldn't you expect Tobi (if he's Izuna) to lie about the Izuna/Madara backstory in order to convince Sasuke that he (Tobi) actually was Madara?

    We saw Izuna's dead body in a "flashback", we saw Obito being crushed through an actual character perspective. There's a difference.

    2. Because Madara failed. Izuna gave/lost his eyes to his brother with the likely promise that Madara would use EMS to glorify the Uchiha and dominate the Senju once and for all (this was before the founding of Konoha). Madara had no choice, it was take his brother's eyes or go blind. This is where he probably made excuses to Izuna to soften the reality. Something like, "I need your eyes for the good of the clan, please understand"

    Izuna, likely a loving brother, trusted Madara and then lost everything. He was an Uchiha without a sharinga, all of his power that he attained with his brother gone. And to add insult to injury, Madara failed to beat Hashirama and was outcast from the village. Imagine Madara apologizing in front of Izuna's grave in this circumstance, just like Kakashi failed to protect Rin.

    3. I've read Gaiden, thank you. He has no motivation. He gave his Sharingan to Kakashi as a gift after finally connecting with him as friends and making him realize being a shinobi is more than the rules; it's protecting your comrades. His final words were "I wish we could have gone on longer, together."

    Does that really sound like a diabolical villain to you? All Obito theorsists claim is, "Oh, well if he was revived then he would have found out Rin died and went evil because Madara coerced him to be". <- this isn't based on anything factual.

    And your last but not least bit:

    We don't know yet, all we know is he can't. Your question is basically the same as, "if two brothers swap MS eyes will they both awaken EMS?" If you find the answer to that then let me know.

    Furthermore, we don't know the reqs for awakening the Rinnegan or how it's used so this is really Null and Void.
     
         

  4. #24
    Eye me maybe Bloodytaste's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    Before you read my response, I encourage you to at least try and think outside the box here. Consider all possibilities.

    1. It doesn't matter what we saw. If Izuna was somehow revived (assuming he actually did die) he'd need a way to modify his body to preserve his life. Also the flashback we saw him in would be inconsequential of Tobi actually WAS Izuna; wouldn't you expect Tobi (if he's Izuna) to lie about the Izuna/Madara backstory in order to convince Sasuke that he (Tobi) actually was Madara?

    We saw Izuna's dead body in a "flashback", we saw Obito being crushed through an actual character perspective. There's a difference.

    2. Because Madara failed. Izuna gave/lost his eyes to his brother with the likely promise that Madara would use EMS to glorify the Uchiha and dominate the Senju once and for all (this was before the founding of Konoha). Madara had no choice, it was take his brother's eyes or go blind. This is where he probably made excuses to Izuna to soften the reality. Something like, "I need your eyes for the good of the clan, please understand"

    Izuna, likely a loving brother, trusted Madara and then lost everything. He was an Uchiha without a sharinga, all of his power that he attained with his brother gone. And to add insult to injury, Madara failed to beat Hashirama and was outcast from the village. Imagine Madara apologizing in front of Izuna's grave in this circumstance, just like Kakashi failed to protect Rin.

    3. I've read Gaiden, thank you. He has no motivation. He gave his Sharingan to Kakashi as a gift after finally connecting with him as friends and making him realize being a shinobi is more than the rules; it's protecting your comrades. His final words were "I wish we could have gone on longer, together."

    Does that really sound like a diabolical villain to you? All Obito theorsists claim is, "Oh, well if he was revived then he would have found out Rin died and went evil because Madara coerced him to be". <- this isn't based on anything factual.

    And your last but not least bit:

    We don't know yet, all we know is he can't. Your question is basically the same as, "if two brothers swap MS eyes will they both awaken EMS?" If you find the answer to that then let me know.

    Furthermore, we don't know the reqs for awakening the Rinnegan or how it's used so this is really Null and Void.
    1. it doesnt matter what we saw? cool story...so this means tobi is madara...jeah we saw madara as edo tensei, but u now say it does not matter what we saw! with this logic he can be Naruto with black dyed hair. Why should he modify it into zetsu body parts? why did madara not have modfied zetsu parts then? huh? sorry but this guess is ridicoulous ~ obito who need zetsu parts because of an crushed body is more fitting here~

    2. and still izuna died oO how could have izuna know then that his brother would made exuses on his grave? (This!)~ Madara himself if he would really be ashemd of is failure, and love his little brother, he wouldnt speak of him like someone he does not really have an personal relation. Go to chapter parts of Edo madara talking about tobi~

    3. boy he hase motvation, look he wanted to change the ninja world from the beginning. Obito say to himself he never wanted to be mouthing off(Minato said to obito he opens his mouth to rash), and thats exact the same thing tobi says to kakashi. He is just word no actions. Kakashi promied to save rin with his life, but shie died and he continued living. The connection between rin & Obito was much greater then to kakashi. Yeah they " made " peace, but not that much to say obito would grab on this moment and dont change. Also it is a theory but this would make the best sense, how obito would know about the moon eye plan and get so strong~ There is nothing Factuel in here, exept the things we see in the manga.

    end~
     
         

  5. #25
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    1. it doesnt matter what we saw? cool story...so this means tobi is madara...jeah we saw madara as edo tensei, but u now say it does not matter what we saw! with this logic he can be Naruto with black dyed hair. Why should he modify it into zetsu body parts? why did madara not have modfied zetsu parts then? huh? sorry but this guess is ridicoulous ~ obito who need zetsu parts because of an crushed body is more fitting here~

    2. and still izuna died oO how could have izuna know then that his brother would made exuses on his grave? (This!)~ Madara himself if he would really be ashemd of is failure, and love his little brother, he wouldnt speak of him like someone he does not really have an personal relation. Go to chapter parts of Edo madara talking about tobi~

    3. boy he hase motvation, look he wanted to change the ninja world from the beginning. Obito say to himself he never wanted to be mouthing off(Minato said to obito he opens his mouth to rash), and thats exact the same thing tobi says to kakashi. He is just word no actions. Kakashi promied to save rin with his life, but shie died and he continued living. The connection between rin & Obito was much greater then to kakashi. Yeah they " made " peace, but not that much to say obito would grab on this moment and dont change. Also it is a theory but this would make the best sense, how obito would know about the moon eye plan and get so strong~ There is nothing Factuel in here, exept the things we see in the manga.

    end~
    1. As I expected, you read the first sentence of that reply and didn't bother to comprehend the rest. What I meant was, seeing Izuna in a pseudo flashback is different. Until we get a legit Madara backstory similar to how Obito's was shown, don't take what we know about Izuna as fact. Obviously Madara isn't Tobi, don't blow my words out of proportion when you probably never even read the post.

    2. This is assuming the eyes were actually given, what if Madara took them by force like Itachi said? This would suggest Madara was in a dominant relationship with Izuna and maybe forced him to do his will. Izuna may have been revived somewhere down the line for this purpose and told the truth, or he never died in the first place. These are possibilities that are viable.

    3. Assuming Madara magically found Obito under a rock, Obito would betray the entire Ninja world, killing his leaf comrades on multiple occasions, over the fact that Rin died? Not even an attempt to speak with Kakashi or Minato? It doesn't make sense.

    Don't get cocky and think you've ended it, we're just getting started kid.
     
         

  6. #26
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    1. As I expected, you read the first sentence of that reply and didn't bother to comprehend the rest. What I meant was, seeing Izuna in a pseudo flashback is different. Until we get a legit Madara backstory similar to how Obito's was shown, don't take what we know about Izuna as fact. Obviously Madara isn't Tobi, don't blow my words out of proportion when you probably never even read the post.

    2. This is assuming the eyes were actually given, what if Madara took them by force like Itachi said? This would suggest Madara was in a dominant relationship with Izuna and maybe forced him to do his will. Izuna may have been revived somewhere down the line for this purpose and told the truth, or he never died in the first place. These are possibilities that are viable.

    3. Assuming Madara magically found Obito under a rock, Obito would betray the entire Ninja world, killing his leaf comrades on multiple occasions, over the fact that Rin died? Not even an attempt to speak with Kakashi or Minato? It doesn't make sense.

    Don't get cocky and think you've ended it, we're just getting started kid.
    Pseudo flashback or not still we cannot look away about it~ There is no still no good Explanation[that izuna would need a way to modify his body to preserve his life, wont make really sense with Zetsu parts. I mean look at madara he did not rely on zetsu) So why he would need an artifical Zetsu body? Obito would for sure need one~ We got to see ~


    here Madara himself states his brother died. Why should madara tell us how he made up a plan with "izuna", and tell us afterward that he died?


    here they are talking about tobis & Madaras Plan, so the relation there can only be something like partners. He does not seem really amused after hearing, that kabuto told him that " fake madara wont go according to the plan.


    here is another hint. Orochimaru & Madara may have been partners as well. So Orochimaru made madara this strong, and if its true then madaras dead must have been after or shortly before the kyuubis attack, so this would mean nagatos rinnegan is not madaras. So, lets think about it...tobi also got senju cells, and was madara partners. Final guess, Orochimaru expirmented oon both of them while madara was still alive. Maybe Orochimaru tired to betray them and steal their powers~ We dont really know about that, but it seem legit, so its no wonder Orochimaru is obbsessed of the Uchiha.
    This one is just too proof that madara could have found obito, if they come up timeline questions ~



    There where tobi get to know madara is back to life. Why does "Izuna" not care who he is anymore? Beeing a Nobody~ he says u cann call me by my old name tobi if u prefer Oo Also why should Zetsu call Izuna all the Time Tobi. As we know Kagami theory is not vialabe anymore. The Name Tobi does not fit to izuna, there is no real connection~ Tobitobi makes a good connection. Therefore his name is also a clue of his identinty yeah its guess, but it seems to refere to him, as he calls himself that way. Why should Izuna get this Name? Its much more fitting to obito then to izuna~


    lets see madaras plan was to let the world serve in sleep~ Like Sheeps. But Tobi wants to end the Dispair the wars, bring Peace unity a world where noone regrets anything anymore. U can't say that Obito would not fit here. Obito wittnessed war, maybe later once more he could stand, war changes people...go ask some who wittnessed war...death, dispair losing ur beloved(rin) ones, losing your body, ur future, and everthing u relied on (friends), who maybe could not keep up their promises.~ It brings up Hatred into u, and madara also said something like that hatred will be passed down to generation, this would also fit. Madara could have passed down this hatred into him as well~ Its Like Star Wars. Madara Sith Lord and Obito was lured into the dark side xD Kishi is a star wars fan, i saw that coming ~ Still its just a guess, but still a good one ~
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 08-24-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  7. #27
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    Pseudo flashback or not still we cannot look away about it~ There is no still no good Explanation[that izuna would need a way to modify his body to preserve his life, wont make really sense with Zetsu parts. I mean look at madara he did not rely on zetsu) So why he would need an artifical Zetsu body? Obito would for sure need one~ We got to see ~


    here Madara himself states his brother died. Why should madara tell us how he made up a plan with "izuna", and tell us afterward that he died?


    here they are talking about tobis & Madaras Plan, so the relation there can only be something like partners. He does not seem really amused after hearing, that kabuto told him that " fake madara wont go according to the plan.


    here is another hint. Orochimaru & Madara may have been partners as well. So Orochimaru made madara this strong, and if its true then madaras dead must have been after or shortly before the kyuubis attack, so this would mean nagatos rinnegan is not madaras. So, lets think about it...tobi also got senju cells, and was madara partners. Final guess, Orochimaru expirmented oon both of them while madara was still alive. Maybe Orochimaru tired to betray them and steal their powers~ We dont really know about that, but it seem legit, so its no wonder Orochimaru is obbsessed of the Uchiha.
    This one is just too proof that madara could have found obito, if they come up timeline questions ~



    There where tobi get to know madara is back to life. Why does "Izuna" not care who he is anymore? Beeing a Nobody~ he says u cann call me by my old name tobi if u prefer Oo Also why should Zetsu call Izuna all the Time Tobi. As we know Kagami theory is not vialabe anymore. The Name Tobi does not fit to izuna, there is no real connection~ Tobitobi makes a good connection. Therefore his name is also a clue of his identinty yeah its guess, but it seems to refere to him, as he calls himself that way. Why should Izuna get this Name? Its much more fitting to obito then to izuna~


    lets see madaras plan was to let the world serve in sleep~ Like Sheeps. But Tobi wants to end the Dispair the wars, bring Peace unity a world where noone regrets anything anymore. U can't say that Obito would not fit here. Obito wittnessed war, maybe later once more he could stand, war changes people...go ask some who wittnessed war...death, dispair losing ur beloved(rin) ones, losing your body, ur future, and everthing u relied on (friends), who maybe could not keep up their promises.~ It brings up Hatred into u, and madara also said something like that hatred will be passed down to generation, this would also fit. Madara could have passed down this hatred into him as well~ Its Like Star Wars. Madara Sith Lord and Obito was lured into the dark side xD Kishi is a star wars fan, i saw that coming ~ Still its just a guess, but still a good one ~
    I don't agree with everything you said but + reps nonetheless. Oh, and stop wasting time with that stubborn guy Edge, if someone wants to ignore the facts and believe in a highly unlikely scenario, let them lol. Not only is it illogical for Tobi to be Izuna, it'd also suck big time as there's zero shock about such an identity, and kishi is a far better writer than to do something as lame as that.
    Let it slide, you gave some good facts now you can't force an idiot with his head buried in the sand into accepting them.
     
         

  8. #28
    Eye me maybe Bloodytaste's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    I don't agree with everything you said but + reps nonetheless. Oh, and stop wasting time with that stubborn guy Edge, if someone wants to ignore the facts and believe in a highly unlikely scenario, let them lol. Not only is it illogical for Tobi to be Izuna, it'd also suck big time as there's zero shock about such an identity, and kishi is a far better writer than to do something as lame as that.
    Let it slide, you gave some good facts now you can't force an idiot with his head buried in the sand into accepting them.
    guess ur right bro~ ty

    i will come up with a theory about orochimaru & Madara connection later on~
     
         

  9. #29
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Obito would have been a beast if he grew up...
     
         

  10. #30
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by lorul2 View Post
    :sy:

    Find where MADRA says " THIS IS TOBI'S DOING!! " anywhere in the MANGA!

    " THIS IS TOBI'S DOING!! " - ANYWHERE!! :flaw:
    :sy: Regardless of who gave the eyes Madara would still be dead, he died SHORTLY after getting Rinnegan, thus he could not know Obito.
     
         

  11. #31
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    :sy: Regardless of who gave the eyes Madara would still be dead, he died SHORTLY after getting Rinnegan, thus he could not know Obito.
    and when did madara tell us he got the rinnegan? So he could know obito~ we still don't know when he got them~
     
         

  12. #32
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    and when did madara tell us he got the rinnegan? So he could know obito~ we still don't know when he got them~
    Obviously during Nagato's childhood.
     
         

  13. #33
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    As we know Kagami theory is not vialabe anymore.
    K.. Why is that? Explain why
     
         

  14. #34
    Want some eye-scream? Edge's Avatar
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    I don't agree with everything you said but + reps nonetheless. Oh, and stop wasting time with that stubborn guy Edge, if someone wants to ignore the facts and believe in a highly unlikely scenario, let them lol. Not only is it illogical for Tobi to be Izuna, it'd also suck big time as there's zero shock about such an identity, and kishi is a far better writer than to do something as lame as that.
    Let it slide, you gave some good facts now you can't force an idiot with his head buried in the sand into accepting them.
    Ignoring facts ...my god. You must be quite the genius then. A bit sad really, I never thought to expect anyone who'd openly admit the Obito theory to be logical. Stupidity runs rampant I guess.

    Reply Incoming
     
         
    Last edited by Edge; 08-24-2012 at 03:30 PM.

  15. #35
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Obviously during Nagato's childhood.
    obviously? Do u have any proof of that? If u say nagatos Rinnegan is Madaras that was never proven to be right yet. I think Nagato would for sure know when someone had changed his eyes. Madara maybe just saw in Nagato an experiment, so he could achieve his own Rinnegan. As we know Orochimaru seemd not to be interested in the Kids(espacially nagato) at the flashback, but why? How did Orochimaru got to know about madaras corpse then? Or maybe Madara himself. As we know Kabuto stated that Orochimaru modfied madara, thats why i have the theory that Madaras Rinnegan was acitvated long after Nagatos~ Thats how Orochimaru got intersted in ninjutsu and the Rinnegan. For sure he wanted Sasuke/Itachis Body just to get the Rinnegan himself, to become the Sage~



    "what Orochimaru created is on a complete diffrent Level what Danzou prototyped" so i think danzou was after orochimaru. Oro & Madara als knew Each other. This would explain why Madara asked " who does control this Edo Tensei" he maybe thought it could be orochimaru. This means that madara would have lived far longer as we expected. I mean why would orochimaru experiment on a corpse without eyes, and where did he find it. Surly Madaras Corpse would have beend hidden safe somewhere. I really believe Orochimaru himself was after the Rinnegan~ He is the key, of Madaras Death and abilitys.
    Its only a guess


    Quote Originally Posted by Higekage View Post
    K.. Why is that? Explain why
    I thought about it, when we didnt knew that this sharingan of tobi was obitos, so the option kagami is not fitting anymore. I thought of him beeing his father, buts the problem is there are to much questions left, even izuna would fit more then kagami right now.
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 08-24-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  16. #36
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    Pseudo flashback or not still we cannot look away about it~ There is no still no good Explanation[that izuna would need a way to modify his body to preserve his life, wont make really sense with Zetsu parts. I mean look at madara he did not rely on zetsu) So why he would need an artifical Zetsu body? Obito would for sure need one~ We got to see ~


    here Madara himself states his brother died. Why should madara tell us how he made up a plan with "izuna", and tell us afterward that he died?


    here they are talking about tobis & Madaras Plan, so the relation there can only be something like partners. He does not seem really amused after hearing, that kabuto told him that " fake madara wont go according to the plan.


    here is another hint. Orochimaru & Madara may have been partners as well. So Orochimaru made madara this strong, and if its true then madaras dead must have been after or shortly before the kyuubis attack, so this would mean nagatos rinnegan is not madaras. So, lets think about it...tobi also got senju cells, and was madara partners. Final guess, Orochimaru expirmented oon both of them while madara was still alive. Maybe Orochimaru tired to betray them and steal their powers~ We dont really know about that, but it seem legit, so its no wonder Orochimaru is obbsessed of the Uchiha.
    This one is just too proof that madara could have found obito, if they come up timeline questions ~



    There where tobi get to know madara is back to life. Why does "Izuna" not care who he is anymore? Beeing a Nobody~ he says u cann call me by my old name tobi if u prefer Oo Also why should Zetsu call Izuna all the Time Tobi. As we know Kagami theory is not vialabe anymore. The Name Tobi does not fit to izuna, there is no real connection~ Tobitobi makes a good connection. Therefore his name is also a clue of his identinty yeah its guess, but it seems to refere to him, as he calls himself that way. Why should Izuna get this Name? Its much more fitting to obito then to izuna~


    lets see madaras plan was to let the world serve in sleep~ Like Sheeps. But Tobi wants to end the Dispair the wars, bring Peace unity a world where noone regrets anything anymore. U can't say that Obito would not fit here. Obito wittnessed war, maybe later once more he could stand, war changes people...go ask some who wittnessed war...death, dispair losing ur beloved(rin) ones, losing your body, ur future, and everthing u relied on (friends), who maybe could not keep up their promises.~ It brings up Hatred into u, and madara also said something like that hatred will be passed down to generation, this would also fit. Madara could have passed down this hatred into him as well~ Its Like Star Wars. Madara Sith Lord and Obito was lured into the dark side xD Kishi is a star wars fan, i saw that coming ~ Still its just a guess, but still a good one ~
    You still aren't getting my point. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. Do you really think all this build up for an Obito connection is going to come through? Kishi is building suspense by diverting attention from other theories; a common story-telling tactic which seems to be working.

    Regardless of body modification (which we can't say for sure about Obito or Izuna, IF they were revived), explain how Obito aged enough to fight Minato a few years later, why Minato didn't recognize him, and why Tobi claims "You have no idea how long I've waited for this!" when speaking about his invasion on the village. Tat doesn't sound like something Obito would say, regardless of his supposed good guy bad guy switch.

    Moving on, I don;t know how many times I need to repeat this, I even made a thread about it, but Izuna may have DIED but is not DEAD. Kakashi died and is not dead, even Madara died and is not dead. God I sound like a broken record, but Kishi keeps it ambiguous when Madara speaks about Tobi. Madara never says TOBI; he says "Him" and "His". Even if it was Izuna, I doubt he'd speak openly about his plans when he wasn't even speaking to anyone. WHEN MADARA WAS TALKING ABOUT TOBI HE WAS TALKING TO HIMSELF. That alone nullifies your argument.

    There is nothing yet to suggest Orochimaru had any connection to Madara, I won't comment on that because it's something you're making up to try and connect the dots. As far as I can see, it means Orochi was the one who modified Madara's body for Edo Tensei, not Kabuto.

    Izuna may not care who he is anymore because in a sense, his identity was taken from him when he lost his eyes. All hope for the future and all his power gone. And the Tobi-Obito name connection is really an old fallacy, just because English says they look similar doesn't mean it holds up in Japanese where it was originally conceived. Think outside the box.

    Last but not least, I can confidently say Obito does not fit with the Moon's Eye Plan. On top of somehow possessing enough knowledge to do anything Tobi has done thus far, there really is no argument anyway. As i said before, Obito seemingly DIED with the last words "I wish we could have gone on longer..together". Nowhere does it suggest hatred.

    Oh and also, we don't know about any other Rinnegan's in existence but theoretically you need th ehighest form of Sharingan, EMS, to unlock them. This is why Madara's eyes are the only source (since he has them upon revival by Edo Tensei anyway) and why people believe Sasuke will unlock the Rinnegan as well.

    So your theory in a nutshell is as is:

    Obito did not die. Madara who somehow lived long after he gave his eyes to Nagato even after he said he died after shortly after awakening his eyes was coincidentally walking around when he saw a huge pile of boulders. Curious, he dug up the boulders and found a severely crushed and wounded Obito who somehow didn't die immediately after being crushed.

    So Madara took this crushed Uchiha and worked with Orochimaru to repair his body, all the while telling him of his plans and nurturing hatred for everyone else. Madara, then gave Obito his eyes and died. Obito, who realized all the hate and anger inside him, decided not to see Kakashi and confront him about it but instead used Madara's old Kyubi summon to attack the village. He fought his old mentor, who didn't recognize him because of his deep and manly voice, and lost.

    Afterwards he went to the Hidden Rain Village to give Nagato Madara's eyes even though Nagato was already working with Tobi within Akatsuki after Yahiko died.


    Seems legit.

    EDIT: Not even going to include the massacre in here, or the fact that Obito went back in time to control the Fourth Mizukage.
     
         
    Last edited by Edge; 08-24-2012 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodytaste View Post
    obviously? Do u have any proof of that? If u say nagatos Rinnegan is Madaras that was never proven to be right yet. I think Nagato would for sure know when someone had changed his eyes. Madara maybe just saw in Nagato an experiment, so he could achieve his own Rinnegan. As we know Orochimaru seemd not to be interested in the Kids(espacially nagato) at the flashback, but why? How did Orochimaru got to know about madaras corpse then? Or maybe Madara himself. As we know Kabuto stated that Orochimaru modfied madara, thats why i have the theory that Madaras Rinnegan was acitvated long after Nagatos~ Thats how Orochimaru got intersted in ninjutsu and the Rinnegan. For sure he wanted Sasuke/Itachis Body just to get the Rinnegan himself, to become the Sage~



    "what Orochimaru created is on a complete diffrent Level what Danzou prototyped" so i think danzou was after orochimaru. Oro & Madara als knew Each other. This would explain why Madara asked " who does control this Edo Tensei" he maybe thought it could be orochimaru. This means that madara would have lived far longer as we expected. I mean why would orochimaru experiment on a corpse without eyes, and where did he find it. Surly Madaras Corpse would have beend hidden safe somewhere. I really believe Orochimaru himself was after the Rinnegan~ He is the key, of Madaras Death and abilitys.
    Its only a guess


    Fine, not obvious but most likely. Tobi already stated he gave it Nagato, we know that EMS upgrades to Rinnegan so Nagato couldn't have awakened it. Tobi has no reason to lie about this.
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Aside from his sharingan being obito's, this is the greatest lead to this whole tobi argument:

    It is said that Kakashi and Gai saw Tobi's face, being said that there is no point in revealing tobi's identity to the two if both of them can't even remember faces. So who do you think it is. His face was seen by Kakashi and Gai. Maybe their friend, or they saw from a picture, a former sensei, facebook friend, chatmate, twitter twitter...
     
         

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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    :sy: Regardless of who gave the eyes Madara would still be dead, he died SHORTLY after getting Rinnegan, thus he could not know Obito.
    More likely, madara used the rinnengan after he received it to revive izuna then would have izuna knowing he wouldn't survive much longer, but it doesn't really matter, we will find out in the next couple weeks what really happened.
     
         

  20. #40
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    Re: So Obito's death lead to Konoha's attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    You still aren't getting my point. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. Do you really think all this build up for an Obito connection is going to come through? Kishi is building suspense by diverting attention from other theories; a common story-telling tactic which seems to be working.

    Regardless of body modification (which we can't say for sure about Obito or Izuna, IF they were revived), explain how Obito aged enough to fight Minato a few years later, why Minato didn't recognize him, and why Tobi claims "You have no idea how long I've waited for this!" when speaking about his invasion on the village. Tat doesn't sound like something Obito would say, regardless of his supposed good guy bad guy switch.

    Moving on, I don;t know how many times I need to repeat this, I even made a thread about it, but Izuna may have DIED but is not DEAD. Kakashi died and is not dead, even Madara died and is not dead. God I sound like a broken record, but Kishi keeps it ambiguous when Madara speaks about Tobi. Madara never says TOBI; he says "Him" and "His". Even if it was Izuna, I doubt he'd speak openly about his plans when he wasn't even speaking to anyone. WHEN MADARA WAS TALKING ABOUT TOBI HE WAS TALKING TO HIMSELF. That alone nullifies your argument.

    There is nothing yet to suggest Orochimaru had any connection to Madara, I won't comment on that because it's something you're making up to try and connect the dots. As far as I can see, it means Orochi was the one who modified Madara's body for Edo Tensei, not Kabuto.

    Izuna may not care who he is anymore because in a sense, his identity was taken from him when he lost his eyes. All hope for the future and all his power gone. And the Tobi-Obito name connection is really an old fallacy, just because English says they look similar doesn't mean it holds up in Japanese where it was originally conceived. Think outside the box.

    Last but not least, I can confidently say Obito does not fit with the Moon's Eye Plan. On top of somehow possessing enough knowledge to do anything Tobi has done thus far, there really is no argument anyway. As i said before, Obito seemingly DIED with the last words "I wish we could have gone on longer..together". Nowhere does it suggest hatred.

    Oh and also, we don't know about any other Rinnegan's in existence but theoretically you need th ehighest form of Sharingan, EMS, to unlock them. This is why Madara's eyes are the only source (since he has them upon revival by Edo Tensei anyway) and why people believe Sasuke will unlock the Rinnegan as well.

    So your theory in a nutshell is as is:

    Obito did not die. Madara who somehow lived long after he gave his eyes to Nagato even after he said he died after shortly after awakening his eyes was coincidentally walking around when he saw a huge pile of boulders. Curious, he dug up the boulders and found a severely crushed and wounded Obito who somehow didn't die immediately after being crushed.

    So Madara took this crushed Uchiha and worked with Orochimaru to repair his body, all the while telling him of his plans and nurturing hatred for everyone else. Madara, then gave Obito his eyes and died. Obito, who realized all the hate and anger inside him, decided not to see Kakashi and confront him about it but instead used Madara's old Kyubi summon to attack the village. He fought his old mentor, who didn't recognize him because of his deep and manly voice, and lost.

    Afterwards he went to the Hidden Rain Village to give Nagato Madara's eyes even though Nagato was already working with Tobi within Akatsuki after Yahiko died.


    Seems legit.

    EDIT: Not even going to include the massacre in here, or the fact that Obito went back in time to control the Fourth Mizukage.
    if u think so bro don't care anymore, cuz i already know who tobi is. Haters gonna hate~


    Quote Originally Posted by Shouten View Post
    Aside from his sharingan being obito's, this is the greatest lead to this whole tobi argument:

    It is said that Kakashi and Gai saw Tobi's face, being said that there is no point in revealing tobi's identity to the two if both of them can't even remember faces. So who do you think it is. His face was seen by Kakashi and Gai. Maybe their friend, or they saw from a picture, a former sensei, facebook friend, chatmate, twitter twitter...
    another pro Obito/contra Izuna arguement here +rep for u
     
         
    Last edited by Bloodytaste; 08-24-2012 at 07:07 PM.

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