Re: Madara, Hashirama, & Kyuubi
It's a good point, but I think you're making a lot of assumptions about the mechanisms involved in an MS sharingan user controlling the kyuubi. You're also making a lot of assumptions about what the fox meant by what he said, and what he meant by what he did not say. That is, the fox didn't say they were different, therefore you assume that means he doesn't think they were different.
Originally Posted by shk1020
BUT, let's run with it anyway. If the fox thinks that Madara (from 80 years ago) is the same as Tobi (from 16 years ago), what are the implications of that? Well, Tobi and Madara are clearly NOT the same person. We know this because they are in two different places, fighting two different groups of enemies, with two very different sets of eyes and sets of eye-based jutsu. The real Madara doesn't seem to have Kamui, and Tobi doesn't have any of the other MS techniques (Amaterasu, Susanoo, etc). Madara, likewise, seems to have better control over the Rinnegan techniques than Tobi does (because Tobi isn't really using them).
So, let's say that they have the same chakra, but aren't the same person. What does that mean? Well, it suggests that they are related, or that they are clones.
Theory 1: Tobi is an elaborate (Zetsu-based?) clone of Madara
In this case, it sort of IS Madara, but a clone who appears to be a "shell of his former self". Why he has different eyes and hasn't kept the uber-powerful original Madara Rinnegan is anybody's guess.
This also raises the possibility that Madara did indeed die during the fight with Hashirama, and only "lived on" in the form of the Tobi clone.
Theory 2: Tobi is a relative or descendant of Madara
The obvious candidate here is Izuna, who was mentioned to have the same strong chakra as Madara. The fox might have seen them as indistinguishable. Plus, it does answer the question why Tobi doesn't have Madara's eyes (Izuna had to steal replacements). If age is a problem, and Izuna doesn't look like he's 100 years old or older, then it might have to be a descendant. Who could be the descendants of Madara or Izuna? Well, we don't know. We haven't heard that either Madara or Izuna had gotten married and had kids, but it is a distinct possibility. This is one more assumption we need to make.
Plus, it's kind of weird that Sasuke and Itachi both have Susanoo, a technique that Madara also has, and that Izuna looks like an almost exact copy of Sasuke. Also, the Fox DID explicitly say that Sasuke has the same dark chakra as Madara had, more or less. this suggests that Sasuke (and Itachi) are grandchildren or great-grandchildren of either Madara or Izuna. Since we know that Tobi isn't Sasuke or Itachi, we have to guess that it's their father (Fugaku) or a grand-father (Kagame, maybe?).
In either case, it is a very interesting theory but you're relying on a lot of assumptions that are impossible to verify. I suspect we'll get all the answers soon.