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    Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    While watching some of the original Naruto anime series, I noticed this. It was very very very brief, all within a matter of a second or two. None the less, they show how the Sharringan forms in the eye.

    Notice anything familiar about the shape the Sharringan makes, before the small black pupils form?!?






    Implications:
    The Sage of the 6 Paths is the origin of all jutsus, including dojutsu (eye techniques). Most likely, the Hyuuga and Uchiha possesed a genetic structure that enabled them to mimic the Rinnengan. The Sharringan is supposed to be more powerful than the Byakugan.

    Sasuke's MS eye, the 3 interlocking circles, is the closest a dojutsu user has ever come to obtaining powers similar to the Rinnengan. I make this assumption because of the structure of the eye, and appearance.

    If the Sharringan enable the Uchiha to copy techniques, why not assume that the original Sharringan user obtained the eyes by trying to copy the Rinnengan. Thus, explaining the images I included.

    The Sharringan we know and see now, is the progressed and evolved form of the eye in the image I included.


    Well... this is my theory... any comments?
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Its a fine theory but the problem is your taking evidence from the anime that doesn't appear in the manga (as far as I know). So really unless you can find that in the manga, its moot.

    I also think that the Sharingan is also unable to copy jutsu or things that do not require hand symbols. There are other things such as summons that the Sharingan can't copy too. Since the Rinnegan required no hand signs I don't think the Sharingan would be able to copy it.
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Didn't the Rinnegan come first? O.o o.O
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Near- View Post
    Didn't the Rinnegan come first? O.o o.O
    Yeah... it came first...

    I'm saying that the Great Great Great Great Grandfather of Sasuke... the original Sharringan... probably had an affinity for "seeing chakra" or "see how nature is manipulated" ... by watching the Sage of the 6 Paths... His eyes were probably allowed him to "copy" and learn the techniques performed by others... When this Old Uchiha imagined the technique he was trying to copy, he would "envision the Rinnengan form"... thus explaining why the Sharringan looked the way it does in my images...

    Techniques have to start somewhere, and evolve to its present day form... I'm saying that these images could HINT at what the Original Sharringan first looked like...

    In the words of Kakashi, each generation surpasses the one before it...
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaki View Post
    Its a fine theory but the problem is your taking evidence from the anime that doesn't appear in the manga (as far as I know). So really unless you can find that in the manga, its moot.

    I also think that the Sharingan is also unable to copy jutsu or things that do not require hand symbols. There are other things such as summons that the Sharingan can't copy too. Since the Rinnegan required no hand signs I don't think the Sharingan would be able to copy it.
    Sasuke copied Lee's Taijutsu...

    And Kakashi appears to copy Itachi's MS... ie the basis for creating his own...
     
         

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    No. It is anime and it is not cannon.... Good try though....
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cash View Post
    While watching some of the original Naruto anime series, I noticed this. It was very very very brief, all within a matter of a second or two. None the less, they show how the Sharringan forms in the eye.

    Notice anything familiar about the shape the Sharringan makes, before the small black pupils form?!?






    Implications:
    The Sage of the 6 Paths is the origin of all jutsus, including dojutsu (eye techniques). Most likely, the Hyuuga and Uchiha possesed a genetic structure that enabled them to mimic the Rinnengan. The Sharringan is supposed to be more powerful than the Byakugan.

    Sasuke's MS eye, the 3 interlocking circles, is the closest a dojutsu user has ever come to obtaining powers similar to the Rinnengan. I make this assumption because of the structure of the eye, and appearance.

    If the Sharringan enable the Uchiha to copy techniques, why not assume that the original Sharringan user obtained the eyes by trying to copy the Rinnengan. Thus, explaining the images I included.

    The Sharringan we know and see now, is the progressed and evolved form of the eye in the image I included.


    Well... this is my theory... any comments?
    sharingun wasnt described as more powerful than the byuakugan as they came from them and also the hyuuga can cee the circlatory system and all the chakra points even kakashi said in chunnin exams the byuakugan are the eyes more powerful than the sharingun
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Anime is not something that you could refer to and you should have undrstood it while making a theory. I have read through the manga and honestly I have never seen Sharingan evolving/changning/activating like that.

    So this theory is nothing but speculations since it has nothing to do with the actual manga story
     
         

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uchiha Kaito View Post
    sharingun wasnt described as more powerful than the byuakugan as they came from them and also the hyuuga can cee the circlatory system and all the chakra points even kakashi said in chunnin exams the byuakugan are the eyes more powerful than the sharingun
    LOL.. there is no comparison between buyakugan and Sharingan. Sharingan is leauges above Failkugan...
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Interesting points you have brought forward...
    Even though, I agree to someone has replied as it is in anime so stands no ground...
    I think in anime it was shown just as SFX nothing else. To prove my point once again watch Naruto(After using Kyubi power) v/s Neji fight and Naruto v/s Sasuke fight... Here in 1st fight Naruto and in 2nd fight Sasuke is shown maneuvering in air, although they can not do it....
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    Interesting points you have brought forward...
    Even though, I agree to someone has replied as it is in anime so stands no ground...
    I think in anime it was shown just as SFX nothing else. To prove my point once again watch Naruto(After using Kyubi power) v/s Neji fight and Naruto v/s Sasuke fight... Here in 1st fight Naruto and in 2nd fight Sasuke is shown maneuvering in air, although they can not do it....

    Hmmm were they in they released state? By the released state I mean the Fox power and Cursed Seal level two. because if that's the case they could have been able to fly
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post
    Hmmm were they in they released state? By the released state I mean the Fox power and Cursed Seal level two. because if that's the case they could have been able to fly
    LOL... Fox power does not allow you to fly... [lol... what else i am going to hear for gods sake?]
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post
    Hmmm were they in they released state? By the released state I mean the Fox power and Cursed Seal level two. because if that's the case they could have been able to fly
    nope, Did you watched both the episodes... Naruto was just harnessing Fox chakra he was not in fox cloak form(even though he can not fly) and sasuke was in his own normal(?) form....
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by peaceful View Post
    LOL... Fox power does not allow you to fly... [lol... what else i am going to hear for gods sake?]

    that's why i used "could have been able to"
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    nope, Did you watched both the episodes... Naruto was just harnessing Fox chakra he was not in fox cloak form(even though he can not fly) and sasuke was in his own normal(?) form....
    Then the only think i can come up with concerning this is messed up anime ; they often add absolutely unnecessary things there only to cause confusion
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post
    that's why i used "could have been able to"
    -facepalm- Even if he was in the kuybi mode he could not have been able to fly. There is no "could".
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cash View Post
    Sasuke copied Lee's Taijutsu...

    And Kakashi appears to copy Itachi's MS... ie the basis for creating his own...
    Lee's taijutsu is body movements. The Sharingan allows the user to copy movements. Having the Rinnegan isn't a movement, its just having the Rinnegan. Also I don't think the Sharingan can copy KG's and the Rinnegan would fall under that category.

    As for Kakashi, he didn't copy Itachi's MS. He trained for years to develop his MS and has completely different techs with it.
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaki View Post
    Lee's taijutsu is body movements. The Sharingan allows the user to copy movements. Having the Rinnegan isn't a movement, its just having the Rinnegan. Also I don't think the Sharingan can copy KG's and the Rinnegan would fall under that category.

    As for Kakashi, he didn't copy Itachi's MS. He trained for years to develop his MS and has completely different techs with it.
    i second this
    its impossible to copy a keke genkay and gained ms thought unnown training

    plus the pics that u have shown are simple the efect they created to make the sharingan activation coller even in the manga kishi try's to make it as precise as it can be to make it look better
     
         
    Last edited by Vergil..; 06-23-2009 at 02:45 PM.

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    1. I realize that the manga and anime are not 1 in the same. I would argue the the anime movies are more "not true to the manga" than the actual anime. I would argue that the anime is a good supplement to the manga. There are many things that Kishi wish he could relay in the manga, but saves for the anime, because it is a better venue. There just isn't enough releases and pages to touch all the bases.


    2. Kakashi doesn't have the bloodline limit, he just has the eye. For Kakashi to obtain the MS by "just training for many years" ... defies the whole pretense for obtaining MS... he DID NOT kill his best friend... THEREFORE... he did not obtain MS the usual way...
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cash View Post
    1. I realize that the manga and anime are not 1 in the same. I would argue the the anime movies are more "not true to the manga" than the actual anime. I would argue that the anime is a good supplement to the manga. There are many things that Kishi wish he could relay in the manga, but saves for the anime, because it is a better venue. There just isn't enough releases and pages to touch all the bases.
    I also thinks on the same line, many questions that were unanswered in manga may be solved by anime...
    For example, consider mizuki' s case he thought something like stealing scroll of forbidden jutsus which could have been better suited for Oro. Anime tols us that it was oro for whom mizuki stole(through Naruto) that scroll.
    2. Kakashi doesn't have the bloodline limit, he just has the eye. For Kakashi to obtain the MS by "just training for many years" ... defies the whole pretense for obtaining MS... he DID NOT kill his best friend... THEREFORE... he did not obtain MS the usual way...
    For obtaining MS, killing friend is not necessary, look at entire manga no one actually killed his friend to obtain MS... Maybe Itachi killed Shisui(if dats d name). Madaras brother himself sacrificed for him and Sasuke killed no one but still has MS...
    So I think Only emotional trauma is required for obtaining Sharingan and its further stages...
    For example:-
    1-Obito when he saw his friends in danger was able to activate Sharingan
    2-Sasuke also activated Sharingan when he saw naruto in danger in Crystal Ice Mirror jutsu casted by Haku.
    3-Sasukes sharingan gained 3rd tomoe in fight with naruto in which sasuke had quite emotional problem...
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    i'm pretty sure that that kakashi didnt copy the MS, i don't know how he gained it without the bloodline limit, but copying it would be defying the one untouchable limit of the sharingan: it can't copy bloodline limits...

    and the pictures remember me more of kurenais eyes than the rinnegan... i've always wondered if there might be a connection between her eyes and sharingan, now i'm wondering if there might even be a connection to rinnegan, but my guess is, that once we see pain in color anime his eyes won't even be red and it turns out that its all just some coincidence (or lack of diversity...). gotta say i was a little disapointed of how the rinnegan looked. Especially after Sharingan and Byakugan seem to be created with much love for detail...
     
         

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    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    For obtaining MS, killing friend is not necessary, look at entire manga no one actually killed his friend to obtain MS... Maybe Itachi killed Shisui(if dats d name). Madaras brother himself sacrificed for him and Sasuke killed no one but still has MS...
    So I think Only emotional trauma is required for obtaining Sharingan and its further stages...
    For example:-
    1-Obito when he saw his friends in danger was able to activate Sharingan
    2-Sasuke also activated Sharingan when he saw naruto in danger in Crystal Ice Mirror jutsu casted by Haku.
    3-Sasukes sharingan gained 3rd tomoe in fight with naruto in which sasuke had quite emotional problem...
    We can theorize that it is an emmotional trauma. But the scroll in the secret Uchiha room doesn't say that... I do agree with you though. I am just saying for the sake of argument.

    - Obito unlocked the Sharringan, Kakashi has no choice but to keep it in the unlocked form. Thus why he keeps it covered, so its not a constant drain on his chakra. Kakashi needs Uchiha blood in order to unlock the MS, so that the eye forms its Natural MS form. Kakashi's eye looks very similar to Itachi's MS. Why though? By looking at Madara's and his brother's eyes... each MS eye should be slightly different from eachother... There are a few facts out there that more so suggest that Kakashi copied the appearance of Itachi's MS eye, and made it his own. Rather than letting the eye naturally form its own MS... You see where I am coming from?
     
         

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    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by gibdirzuckungen View Post
    and the pictures remember me more of kurenais eyes than the rinnegan... i've always wondered if there might be a connection between her eyes and sharingan, now i'm wondering if there might even be a connection to rinnegan, but my guess is, that once we see pain in color anime his eyes won't even be red and it turns out that its all just some coincidence (or lack of diversity...). gotta say i was a little disapointed of how the rinnegan looked. Especially after Sharingan and Byakugan seem to be created with much love for detail...
    I'm glad you said that... Kurenei's eyes could very well be a pre-evolved eye, that is on the verge of becoming a bloodline technique/ability.

    Considering that all jutsu originates from the Rinnengan... including dojutsu.

    Think about it... the Rinnengan is grey, just like the Byakugan... and has ring formations... just like the Sharringan. For the Byakugan, the area around the eyes shows blood vessels almost bursting from the face, requiring exteme effort and chakra use... compared the rinnengan that is naturally used by Nagato with little effort. The sharringan turns red, most likely from the increased bloodflow into the eye, and forms rings, before the 3 black pupils form...

    Basically, those 2 eye techniques seem like Kureni's eyes, but evolved through training and chakra manipulation, that takes the mimicked natural form of the rinnengan... but can't achieve the rinnengan's abilities, because they are a 1 in a million bloodline trait....
     
         

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cash View Post
    I'm glad you said that... Kurenei's eyes could very well be a pre-evolved eye, that is on the verge of becoming a bloodline technique/ability.

    Considering that all jutsu originates from the Rinnengan... including dojutsu.

    Think about it... the Rinnengan is grey, just like the Byakugan... and has ring formations... just like the Sharringan. For the Byakugan, the area around the eyes shows blood vessels almost bursting from the face, requiring exteme effort and chakra use... compared the rinnengan that is naturally used by Nagato with little effort. The sharringan turns red, most likely from the increased bloodflow into the eye, and forms rings, before the 3 black pupils form...

    Basically, those 2 eye techniques seem like Kureni's eyes, but evolved through training and chakra manipulation, that takes the mimicked natural form of the rinnengan... but can't achieve the rinnengan's abilities, because they are a 1 in a million bloodline trait....
    A pre-evolved eye maybe a possibility(if series lengthens dat much). May be we will see Next evolution in her child...Though they luk(eyes of Kurenai and Nagato) similar, I don't think so there is any relation(as doujutsu) between them.
    Luk at these images:-




    If there is any relation,
    Rinnegan's rings covers entire eye, and Kuranai's eyes has rings around pupil not for entire eye...So maybe Kurenai is part of some bloodline clan using genjutsu as shown in anime...
    Maybe Sharingan evolved from Byakugan and kurenai's clan'e eyes....
     
         
    Last edited by Orion; 06-28-2009 at 07:20 AM.

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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    - Obito unlocked the Sharringan, Kakashi has no choice but to keep it in the unlocked form. Thus why he keeps it covered, so its not a constant drain on his chakra. Kakashi needs Uchiha blood in order to unlock the MS, so that the eye forms its Natural MS form. Kakashi's eye looks very similar to Itachi's MS. Why though? By looking at Madara's and his brother's eyes... each MS eye should be slightly different from eachother... There are a few facts out there that more so suggest that Kakashi copied the appearance of Itachi's MS eye, and made it his own. Rather than letting the eye naturally form its own MS... You see where I am coming from?
    Honestly idon't think that kakashis MS looks more similar to Itachis MS than the usual difference especially if u look at the MS of Madaras Brother (always forgetting his name) which also looked kind of similar to itachis... the only MS that really has no similarity with any other MS is Sasukes.
    check Chapter 386 Page 6

    And i think Kakashis MS is just a big continuity Problem, since it violates one of two facts we know about Sharingan.
    1. Sharingans can't copy Bloodline Limits.
    2. MS can only form with Uchiha Blood.

    The Reason why i think Kakashi overcame the 2nd rather than the first is this:
    In Kakashi Gaiden when Obito Unlocked the Sharingan and then gave it to Kakashi, it wasn't fully developed. It had only 2 dots, which means Kakashi was able to fully develop the sharingan by himself which is at least evidence that maybe Uchiha blood isn't required for MS, while i've seen no evidence whatsoever that Sharingan can copy a Bloodline Limit (Even if its the MS).
    check Chapter 243 Page 19-20
     
         

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