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  1. #21
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    i'm pretty sure that that kakashi didnt copy the MS, i don't know how he gained it without the bloodline limit, but copying it would be defying the one untouchable limit of the sharingan: it can't copy bloodline limits...

    and the pictures remember me more of kurenais eyes than the rinnegan... i've always wondered if there might be a connection between her eyes and sharingan, now i'm wondering if there might even be a connection to rinnegan, but my guess is, that once we see pain in color anime his eyes won't even be red and it turns out that its all just some coincidence (or lack of diversity...). gotta say i was a little disapointed of how the rinnegan looked. Especially after Sharingan and Byakugan seem to be created with much love for detail...
     
         

  2. #22
    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    For obtaining MS, killing friend is not necessary, look at entire manga no one actually killed his friend to obtain MS... Maybe Itachi killed Shisui(if dats d name). Madaras brother himself sacrificed for him and Sasuke killed no one but still has MS...
    So I think Only emotional trauma is required for obtaining Sharingan and its further stages...
    For example:-
    1-Obito when he saw his friends in danger was able to activate Sharingan
    2-Sasuke also activated Sharingan when he saw naruto in danger in Crystal Ice Mirror jutsu casted by Haku.
    3-Sasukes sharingan gained 3rd tomoe in fight with naruto in which sasuke had quite emotional problem...
    We can theorize that it is an emmotional trauma. But the scroll in the secret Uchiha room doesn't say that... I do agree with you though. I am just saying for the sake of argument.

    - Obito unlocked the Sharringan, Kakashi has no choice but to keep it in the unlocked form. Thus why he keeps it covered, so its not a constant drain on his chakra. Kakashi needs Uchiha blood in order to unlock the MS, so that the eye forms its Natural MS form. Kakashi's eye looks very similar to Itachi's MS. Why though? By looking at Madara's and his brother's eyes... each MS eye should be slightly different from eachother... There are a few facts out there that more so suggest that Kakashi copied the appearance of Itachi's MS eye, and made it his own. Rather than letting the eye naturally form its own MS... You see where I am coming from?
     
         

  3. #23
    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by gibdirzuckungen View Post
    and the pictures remember me more of kurenais eyes than the rinnegan... i've always wondered if there might be a connection between her eyes and sharingan, now i'm wondering if there might even be a connection to rinnegan, but my guess is, that once we see pain in color anime his eyes won't even be red and it turns out that its all just some coincidence (or lack of diversity...). gotta say i was a little disapointed of how the rinnegan looked. Especially after Sharingan and Byakugan seem to be created with much love for detail...
    I'm glad you said that... Kurenei's eyes could very well be a pre-evolved eye, that is on the verge of becoming a bloodline technique/ability.

    Considering that all jutsu originates from the Rinnengan... including dojutsu.

    Think about it... the Rinnengan is grey, just like the Byakugan... and has ring formations... just like the Sharringan. For the Byakugan, the area around the eyes shows blood vessels almost bursting from the face, requiring exteme effort and chakra use... compared the rinnengan that is naturally used by Nagato with little effort. The sharringan turns red, most likely from the increased bloodflow into the eye, and forms rings, before the 3 black pupils form...

    Basically, those 2 eye techniques seem like Kureni's eyes, but evolved through training and chakra manipulation, that takes the mimicked natural form of the rinnengan... but can't achieve the rinnengan's abilities, because they are a 1 in a million bloodline trait....
     
         

  4. #24
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cash View Post
    I'm glad you said that... Kurenei's eyes could very well be a pre-evolved eye, that is on the verge of becoming a bloodline technique/ability.

    Considering that all jutsu originates from the Rinnengan... including dojutsu.

    Think about it... the Rinnengan is grey, just like the Byakugan... and has ring formations... just like the Sharringan. For the Byakugan, the area around the eyes shows blood vessels almost bursting from the face, requiring exteme effort and chakra use... compared the rinnengan that is naturally used by Nagato with little effort. The sharringan turns red, most likely from the increased bloodflow into the eye, and forms rings, before the 3 black pupils form...

    Basically, those 2 eye techniques seem like Kureni's eyes, but evolved through training and chakra manipulation, that takes the mimicked natural form of the rinnengan... but can't achieve the rinnengan's abilities, because they are a 1 in a million bloodline trait....
    A pre-evolved eye maybe a possibility(if series lengthens dat much). May be we will see Next evolution in her child...Though they luk(eyes of Kurenai and Nagato) similar, I don't think so there is any relation(as doujutsu) between them.
    Luk at these images:-




    If there is any relation,
    Rinnegan's rings covers entire eye, and Kuranai's eyes has rings around pupil not for entire eye...So maybe Kurenai is part of some bloodline clan using genjutsu as shown in anime...
    Maybe Sharingan evolved from Byakugan and kurenai's clan'e eyes....
     
         
    Last edited by Orion; 06-28-2009 at 08:20 AM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    - Obito unlocked the Sharringan, Kakashi has no choice but to keep it in the unlocked form. Thus why he keeps it covered, so its not a constant drain on his chakra. Kakashi needs Uchiha blood in order to unlock the MS, so that the eye forms its Natural MS form. Kakashi's eye looks very similar to Itachi's MS. Why though? By looking at Madara's and his brother's eyes... each MS eye should be slightly different from eachother... There are a few facts out there that more so suggest that Kakashi copied the appearance of Itachi's MS eye, and made it his own. Rather than letting the eye naturally form its own MS... You see where I am coming from?
    Honestly idon't think that kakashis MS looks more similar to Itachis MS than the usual difference especially if u look at the MS of Madaras Brother (always forgetting his name) which also looked kind of similar to itachis... the only MS that really has no similarity with any other MS is Sasukes.
    check Chapter 386 Page 6

    And i think Kakashis MS is just a big continuity Problem, since it violates one of two facts we know about Sharingan.
    1. Sharingans can't copy Bloodline Limits.
    2. MS can only form with Uchiha Blood.

    The Reason why i think Kakashi overcame the 2nd rather than the first is this:
    In Kakashi Gaiden when Obito Unlocked the Sharingan and then gave it to Kakashi, it wasn't fully developed. It had only 2 dots, which means Kakashi was able to fully develop the sharingan by himself which is at least evidence that maybe Uchiha blood isn't required for MS, while i've seen no evidence whatsoever that Sharingan can copy a Bloodline Limit (Even if its the MS).
    check Chapter 243 Page 19-20
     
         

  6. #26
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    IMO
    kakshi had ms the moment rin transplanted it
    ms is obtained by witnessing the death of someone imporant to you whether by your hands or someone elses so obitos death activated his ms whether he realized it or not
     
         

  7. #27
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by kabumaru View Post
    IMO
    kakshi had ms the moment rin transplanted it
    ms is obtained by witnessing the death of someone imporant to you whether by your hands or someone elses so obitos death activated his ms whether he realized it or not
    i completely agree with you. i wanted to say it before but u got to it before me. and also, i believe that sasuke did witness the death of his best friend.. which was his brother and the same goes with mandara and his brother.
     
         

  8. #28
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by ngking1 View Post
    i completely agree with you. i wanted to say it before but u got to it before me. and also, i believe that sasuke did witness the death of his best friend.. which was his brother and the same goes with mandara and his brother.
    sasuke's situation IMO is a little different because he utterly hated itachi but itachi was important to him (obviously not in a positive way like a friend ) but important none the less that why i no longer say the death of a freind but

    it may be because him and itachi were like friends in the past and his memories right before itachi died were of them when they were like friends
    but i dont know for sure

    however if you could train to get ms all the uchiha would have one
     
         

  9. #29
    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ4Naruto View Post
    A pre-evolved eye maybe a possibility(if series lengthens dat much). May be we will see Next evolution in her child...Though they luk(eyes of Kurenai and Nagato) similar, I don't think so there is any relation(as doujutsu) between them.
    Luk at these images:-




    If there is any relation,
    Rinnegan's rings covers entire eye, and Kuranai's eyes has rings around pupil not for entire eye...So maybe Kurenai is part of some bloodline clan using genjutsu as shown in anime...
    Maybe Sharingan evolved from Byakugan and kurenai's clan'e eyes....
    Yeah. Kurenai does use genjutsu as her main ability. So there is a relation there. I doubt that we will see the evolution, if even possible, of her eye into something more... It would have to take place with her child. Maybe the bloodline of a Hokage would be able to do it...

    - When you look at the image of Sasuke I used, and the image of Kurenai... The Sharringan's 3 pupils are formed from the black ring in the middle. The black ring disappears through manipulation of the vessels, an ability only the Uchiha can do.

    - The fact that Kurenai .... NATURALLY has her eye divided like that... without manipulation... means that her eyes are naturally more powerful that the Fully black Uchiha eye. This is why Kurenai is good at genjutsu. As soon as the Uchiha sharringan starts to form however, the difference is obvious. Basically, Kurenai's eye is in a static mode. Possibly the blood of Asuma's clan is able to push that eye into the next level. Like a third red ring... idk...
     
         
    Last edited by Cash; 06-29-2009 at 06:50 AM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by kabumaru View Post
    IMO
    kakshi had ms the moment rin transplanted it
    ms is obtained by witnessing the death of someone imporant to you whether by your hands or someone elses so obitos death activated his ms whether he realized it or not
    i sorta agree with that. i think that he felt responsible for his death. because i think he mentioned somwhere that he felt guilt for his death because of his cockyness or something like that. so he felt responsible and caused the emotional reaction required for the transformation but when he got the sharinghan the eye only had 2 tomeo (dots) and wasnt powerfull enough to transform so after he atained a 3 tomeo and mastered it in the time skip. combined with those feelings of "killing obito" it caused the transformation...
     
         

  11. #31
    ANBU BLACK OPS Cash's Avatar
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    Re: Theory: Anime frames of Sasuke. The Original Sharringan, and Implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koo View Post
    i sorta agree with that. i think that he felt responsible for his death. because i think he mentioned somwhere that he felt guilt for his death because of his cockyness or something like that. so he felt responsible and caused the emotional reaction required for the transformation but when he got the sharinghan the eye only had 2 tomeo (dots) and wasnt powerfull enough to transform so after he atained a 3 tomeo and mastered it in the time skip. combined with those feelings of "killing obito" it caused the transformation...
    I am pretty sure that Sasuke's MS (The 3 intersecting ring version) formed without him making the conscious decision. Its not like he sat there and was like "Ok I made a big mistake, and I am depressed, so awake my MS eyes!" For Sasuke, it just naturally happened.

    So given this, people are saying that Kakashi already had it, but never knew it? That doesn't make sense. Kakashi has been in multiple more life or death situations than Naruto ever has... and yet the MS didn't awaken. In fact, Kakashi stated to Naruto when chasing Deidra, that over those 3 years he was "working on perfecting a new technique". Him saying it is new to him... means that it is new, and he didn't have it before...

    I believe that Kakashi is key to understanding the truth behind MS. Kakashi's character shows us how the sharringan works, without the bloodline, which shows the difference the Uchiha bloodline has in the techniques...
     
         

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