[Predictions] Naruto Manga Chapter 600 Discussion and 601 Predictions

[hugocruzz]

1. In order for Tobi to really be Obito, one of two things had to happen:
- Obito would have had to survive what had happened during the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and rescue him. Obito was clearly dead, because if he weren't Minato would have rescued him.
- Obito would have dad to be resurrected at some point after the 3rd ninja war, which means someone would have had to come along and resurrect him. Obito was a worthless child who had zero skills and was afraid of everything. There wasn't any reason for anyone to come and resurrect him.

2. There is no guarantee that a rescued or resurrected Obito would cooperate or agree with the ideals of people like Madara.

3. We don't know when Rin died, and we don't know that she was dead during the Kyuubi attack on Konoha the day Naruto was born.

4. The person who attacked Konoha that day was clearly an S level jounin capable of utilizing high level ninja techs in such a way that Minato himself assumed that he was Madara.

5. The person who is fighting now against Kakashi, Guy, and Naruto is the same exact person who fought Minato and unleashed the 9 tails on Konoha.

6. It makes a lot more sense for someone to come along and take Obito's body and then use it to resurrect someone important, such as Izuna, someone who is already allied to Madara, than it does to grab some no-name side character from a filler chapter and trust them with your legacy.

Your theory makes sense and it's possible, but I don't think that is the case, sorry.

I know that is hard for some of you to believe that Tobi is really Obito and you wish that Izuna is the one behind the cene. For one side I could believe in that but fot the other, not quite.

Here is why. First it wouldn't make sense to build a mooneye plan if Madara and Izuna were alive. I still think this plan, is a plan for the oportunity of Madara seeing is brother again and live happily with him. With Obito, his endourssment is to see Rin again.

Second, I don't think if Obito was Izuna, would talk about Rin, and don't denied when called Obito by Kakashi. Also Madara called him Obito.

Third, the endo tensei uses other body but it transforms it into the original person, like all the edo tenseis. I don't think if Izuna was resurrected, that he would look like Obito.

About Minato can't find Obito's body, I still believe Madara could get there first, because Minato said, sorry I'm too late. Madara had time to took his body.

About it doesn't make sense to take Obito's body because he was a failure, I don't agree with that, an Uchiha, is always an Uchiha, Sharingan, is always Sharingan. That was why Lee was so envious about Sasuke, Uchihas have an advantage in relation with other cultures, that's why the Uchihas were hated by many clans.

Madara could also have seen the potencial in his eyes, or after he activated the MS, wanted to try and still them.

And like i said before, I don't believe that the person who helped Itachi killing the Uchiha clan and the one who attacked Konoha are the same person. He have seen the difference in the hair and in the difficulty of Minato fighting Tobi back then, and Minato didn't recognized his chakra like beeing Obito's chakra.

To me this theory makes more sense.

About the revenge of Obito because of Rin, I think Obito was manipulated by Madara, like i talked before, it's here:

Pretty good chapter, like most of people, didn't like the flashbacks, nothing new...

One thing I was thinking and I think it will be awesome if it happens and I would like your opinion in this matter.

We still don't know the full history of Rin, and I hope we find out soon, but I think it's possible that Madara was the one who killed her/caused her death and manipulated Obito to join forces with him.

And if this is true, it will be fun to see how would he react when he knows the truth, and here is where Orochimaru enters, maybe he has the poof that Madara killed Rin or caused her death, and he is gathering that information with Sasuke to show to Obito and it can make a huge turn on the manga's history, wich would be interesting.

Maybe Obito could turn on Madara and tries to kill him, because to me, if the 5 kages can't kill Madara, Naruto can't kill Madara and Obito, something has to change, and I think that Obito is the key, but what do you think?

I think it's an interesting theory and possible, give me your opinions on the future please.

Cheers everyone!

Thank you for your opinion. We could discuss more often opinions if you want, i respect very much your theory, very good thinking over there,

Cheers.

[SEEDLESS]

on my opinion, obito suddenly discovered space time jutsu when he was covered by the boulder. maybe accidentally hearing the screams of Rin dying or maybe with the help of madara. there is no way he could escape that big boulder. then madara came to rescue obito and cured him, madara found obito as a potential ally that's why he kept and trained him

[hugocruzz]

I do agree with you for most of your comments. The only difference is that it was Zetsu, having powers from both Obito and Madara, who fought Minato. This is the only thing that I can think of which can set everything right. The proof of that guy being Zetsu is the left hand damage, which kishi showed totally on purpose. And we have seen throughout the Manga that Tobi's right hand was damaged except against Minato.

Thank you for the recognition, I really try to understand the history behind the cenes, and for the surprises of kishi, I think my opinions are quite valid.

About your idea, it's a possible outcome, but i think it's unlikely that Zetsu could have so much power, since Sasuke killed the prime Zetsu that was guarding him.

I do believe that Obito's body as some parts of Zetsu, because like the Raikage and the Hokage studied with HQ division, the Obito's cells are a mixture between the 1st Hokage's cells and Zetsu's cells, wich make more sense the regeneration of his body, after his right side of the body was crushed, and after fighting Konan, he cuted his right arm and later regenerated his body.

But many explaining to come, and I hope they'll come soon.

[squigles]

I know that is hard for some of you to believe that Tobi is really Obito and you wish that Izuna is the one behind the cene.

I don't 'wish' that it wasn't Obito or that it was someone else. I'm pointing out the simple fact that when you account for the facts of the manga, Obito doesn't add up to Tobi. It just doesn't. Kishi has to re write some chapters in order to make it fit, and that's why so many people have pointed out the plot holes.

This is the first time in 600 chapters I've scrutinized what Kishi has written, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think it was a relevant point to bring up.

[Edge]

never heard that manga had voice O:

(kishi does not even talk to the voice actors, about the further manga, so he for sure did not choose tobis voice)

secondly this whole Obito thing reminds me of Spartacus the new series. Its like that everthing Spartacus started to crush Rome, was because of his loved woman who got killed. Dunnow why so many people think that Love is not a good motive in a Manga, while it is in such a good Serial.~

I know, was just something funny I wanted to point out

[hugocruzz]

I don't 'wish' that it wasn't Obito or that it was someone else. I'm pointing out the simple fact that when you account for the facts of the manga, Obito doesn't add up to Tobi. It just doesn't. Kishi has to re write some chapters in order to make it fit, and that's why so many people have pointed out the plot holes.

This is the first time in 600 chapters I've scrutinized what Kishi has written, and I wouldn't have done it if I didn't think it was a relevant point to bring up.

"Obito doesn't add up to Tobi."

Tottally agree, kishi has much to explain, much history gaps, and I hope he'll explain soon. Mainly, the incident between minato and tobi, and the attack to konoha. But I think, because of that, we shouldn't jump too soon into conclusions like Tobi is not Obito.

Lets see what kishi has to offer before that. But very valid points you presented, don't want to say that you see that badly, but like I said, the proof isn't still enough to proove your point, have to wait some chapters to prove that. Lets wait. Much respect, cheers.

[The God]

you're all wrong zetsu is linked with obito kishi is trolling! how many times we seen white slime dripping from tobi, nd now because he says hes obito u get all these ppl complainin

what about when he sed he was madara?

i think tobi is also linked with madara as how would the original madara know the seals to the 2nd hokages edo tensei technique

kabuto showed tobi the seals i reckon kishi put tht in there on purpose and then all of a sudden the edo madara knew the seals
maybe because they share the same rinnegan eyes? so they have a shared field of vision

but yh the time link is due to zetsu

he probably cloned the original madara but didnt have enough chakra to do his moves properly so then cloned obito so he could jus stay teleporting so know one can hit him

then gave the eyes to nagato

[bibspark]

Kishi is really trying to push this Tobi Obito thing, as much as I'm slowly being changed to that way of thinking but I do believe Tobi is linked to Obito, Madara and Zetsu maybe a combination of them??? who knows.

Tobi was initially Madara then No One(Zetsu) now Obito.

[★Prince of Saiyans]

He's "No Body" Uchiha

[Hyoga]

So we have another whinny Uchiha as a main villain. My answer to pathetic cry baby obito would be. If you were alive this whole time why didint you cam back to the village and protected Rin yourself instead of blaming kakashi for not being able to. He is alive and decides to stay with madara and then he complains about rin's death. If he was strong why didint he protect her himself.

Im tired of this crybaby Uchiha always complaining about shit. At least Nagato had a reason to ****ing be pissed off. LEaf ninja supposedly kill his parents in a war. Then Danzo and Salamander dude kill his best friend after betraying him. He had a reason to hate the stablishment. Then come lame Obito with the you let Rin die crap. She is dead and its all his own doing for not being part of his 3 man cell team. ****ing Obito piece of shit

[peachgurl]

every time someone was brought back form the dead they had all their original powers. not once did i see any ninja have a grorh spurt.
(haku didn't get any taller) so how could obito

[CA137794]

4/5 because of the flashback but it was so suspensful.

[JAzz1991]

guys i have a theory its a little farfetched but hear me out

"What if when obito was a almost crushed under the rock his MS activated think about it. his kamui is still intact even after being crushed . that means his ability to phase might have activated then that might have been the only reason he survived. then after his body being badly damaged he was trying to get away or managing to survive there and met with either madara or zetsu"

again its just a theory it can be different all together

[Mikoto]

Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.

Well your reasoning is somewhat flawed here. It wasn't filler. It sets up the whole part 2 arch. It would be hard to believe it's a coincidence and purely a filler story, when it was released right smack in the middle of part 1 and 2. It's called foreshadowing, live with it. There's something Kishimoto has yet to reveal regarding Obito post-smashing that will make this more plausible I'm sure.

[thewondererer]

His death was pretty much confirmed by being crushed by a shit ton of rocks, and then being crushed again by the surrounding dozen or so rock ninja.

- Kakashi and Obito save rin.
- Rin, Kakashi, and Obito try to escape as one of the rock ninja implode the cave down around them.
- Kakashi gets hit by a rock and falls down, Obito grabs him and throws him clear of the falling rocks, getting crushed himself.
- Kakashi wakes up, and finds that Obito is crushed by rocks.
- Obito gives him his left eye, and Rin implants it.
- Kakashi finishes off the rock shinobi.
- A bunch more rock shinobi show up, Kakashi and Rin narrowly escape the rubble before Obito gets crushed again.
- Kakashi blacks out just before Minato shows up and kills all the rock ninja.

There is no way that Minato would not try to rescue Obito if he thought he was alive, and he would have undoubtedly dug through the rocks to get his corpse. So the time frame we are talking about here between the time Obito was crushed a second time and then Minato showing up is literally a matter of minutes, if that. Whomever rescued/resurrected Obito would have had to act within those few minutes before Minato got there and that would take insane planning and foresight.

Otherwise, Minato senses that Obito is dead under the pile of rocks and transports his corpse back to Konoha for a burial. Or Minato leaves his corpse there and they bury an empty casket.

The timeframe between Obito being crushed and Minato showing up may or may not a literally be a matter of minutes. You MAY assume that it is we still don't know for sure so it isn't fact. Also Obito being crushed twice STILL does not confirm his death. Showing a scene of someone looking to check if his body is dead confirms that. I mean look at Deidara vs Sasuke. When Deidara made it seem like Sasuke exploded, either the scene could have ended there or Sasuke could have just escaped while faking his death and we could have assumed Sasuke died but he really didn't.

Because he has absolutely zero reason to. The Uchiha betrayed him, remember? He was the only Uchiha (besides his brother) who was willing to do whatever it took to keep his power in the ninja world, and no other Uchiha would stand by him. He has no reason to take in a dying Uchiha boy, and would be in a better position if he just killed him and took his sharingan or used his dead body for experiments.

You just proved my point. Madara CAN have a reason to take him in. Maybe to experiment resurrecting Obito or maybe he wanted to leave him as his legacy because Madara may have foreseen his death and Obito will continue his plan (and quite possibly revive Madara). My point is Madara can have a reason.

Because you have to lose the person close to you before you can become angry enough about it to seek vengeance. Obito's death was BEFORE Rin died, so therefore his rescue or resurrection had to also happen BEFORE Rin died. So whoever helped Obito would have had to see the future to know that Rin was going to die and that Obito would be pissed enough about it to Rage at the world.

Do you understand my point yet? How does Madara know to save Obito so that he can become evil and enslave the world, when the cause of his evilness has not yet happened? We're talking about a matter of minutes in a timeline where Rin is not dead.... therefore 'because you let Rin die' is not a valid reason for Obito to have survived his supposed death and come back as an evil super villain.

Again I explained earlier why Obito wasn't confirmed dead. And again, Madara CAN have reasons to take Obito as I said earlier. And again x2, it's not fair to judge Obito's justification yet because Kishi hasn't begun to reveal the whole Rin thing.

It was a unique plot twist to have someone you thought was dead come back as the main villain. However, none of the events that transpired afterward make any sense given the context of that characters death. The 'Rin thing' is what makes the least sense of all. Kishi doesn't need to explain it because it doesn't fit at all. It's literally the same as Obito coming back as the main villain and telling Kakashi it's because 'he let Jiraya die.' Or because he 'let Minato die.' Or any other major character who died AFTER Obito. It's just not logically possible for Obito's survival and subsequent turn into an evil bastard to be explained by Rin's death.

How can you say "Kishi doesn't need to explain it because it doesn't fit at all." when the point of an explanation is to show why something fits within the context... And again, we have to be patient about Kishi explaining the whole Rin incident before judging.

Except there is no logical reason for Madara to wear a mask (when he never did before) and then run around claiming to be Madara. Do you put on a mask and then run around telling people who you really are? That just seems like a retarded thing to do imo. It would make more sense to wear a mask to specifically HIDE who you really are.

From what I remember, the long-haired masked man only told he was Uchiha Madara to those that didn't have intention to foil his plan (e.g. Kisame). I'm just saying it is a possibility but not claiming it happened. There could be a bunch of logical reasons as to why Madara would do that which you haven't put effort into thinking. My point is that it's best to keep an OPEN-MIND rather than narrowing your view into "Oh I know exactly how X character's brain works because I feel I'm a manga psychologist so I will claim that he will NEVER do this." It underestimates the creativity of human nature.

Except that Madara has been a major character in the story arc and one of the most powerful ninja ever. During his 5 chapter mini arc, Obito was a bumbling fool and only barely managed to awaken his sharingan and save Kakashi. Let's say for sake of my point, that instead of being called Naruto, the story was called Sasuke, and Naruto died in the first 3 chapters. What would you think about Naruto at that point?

Pretty shitty no-name character. The only reason why you think anything of Naruto now is because the main story is centered on him, and he's had 600 chapters to grow up and become a powerful force for good.

Just because a character is incredibly weak does not make him a character of little value in story. What makes a character of high value is how significant he/she is to the story. Madara is of high value because he is showed to be a major representation of hatred and power throughout the story and Obito was of high value because of his crucial connection to a major character (which can be used to further develop the plot), Kakashi, and how he represented friendship. Now Obito is of even higher value now because he represents the the truth about mankind which is that we are dynamic creatures. (shifting from a caring, friendship-oriented character to an anti-hero who's sense of justice has completely changed to a different extreme)

[Genjitxu]

Obito wasn't so weak once he awakened his sharingan. He killed that invisible rock ninja, then he pulled off that scissor kick block to save Kakashi from the other rock ninja with the twin blades coming out of his arms. Then Obito could read the disrupted chakra patterns of Rin who was under genjutsu at the time. Can all sharingan read pattterns? Isn't that a byuakugan ability?

[Edge]

He was buried under a shit ton of rocks, and it all happened within a few minutes. So you're telling me that he was resurrected or rescued in the space of minutes? That would take planning and foresight, like Madara KNEW he was going to get crushed by a bunch of rocks so he would have the opportunity to turn some no-name Uchiha. Do you not understand how ridiculous that sounds?



You're right, he was the main character and the most important Uchiha.[/sarcasm] Obito was one of Kakashi's teammates, who was always late, always sucked at techniques (like Naruto), and was terrible at doing what was necessary (except at the very last minute, when he awakened his sharingan and teamed up with Kakashi to save Rin). Not to mention he was only really featured within an extended chapter in which he DIED. At best he's a supporting character in a five chapter side story and has really no importance as an Uchiha.



Again, we're talking about a character who was killed in the only mini story arc he was in. 'You let rin die' is not enough for a side character to all of a sudden develop this evil plan to enslave the world in the name of peace, especially when it's completely contingent on an event (rin's death) which did not happen in the time frame of minutes that Obito would have to be rescued/resurrected.

It's like Kishi expects us to think Obito died (but not really) and then some time later Rin dies, and then Obito was just hanging out someplace until that happened in order to devise some plan to enslave the world. That's so convoluted it definitely ruins the story.



He snuck into Konoha without tripping their barrier detection, killed all the Anbu who were guarding Kushina during birth, and took baby Naruto hostage without Minato even realizing it until it was too late. Then he managed to abduct Kushina and almost kill Minato AND baby Naruto in just a few seconds.

If you don't think that he's was an S class ninja at that point, you're fooling yourself.



Madara has never had a reason to wear a mask, and if he were to come back and attack Konoha and devise this plan to enslave the world, do you honestly think he would put a mask on? The only reason to wear a mask is to hide your identity, which is not something Madara would do in the first place, especially when he goes around telling people his name.

No, the masked person who attacked konoha was the very same person who is claiming to be Obito now. And Obito's body is just another mask to hide who that person really is.



Obito is a no-name and that story arc is a filler chapter. The only difference between that arc and any other filler is that Kakashi references Rin and Obito outside of Kakashi Gaiden. Now Kishi wants us to believe that this no name Uchiha is somehow this super villain who became a super villain because Kakashi broke his promise to protect Rin (another no name character, one who doesn't even have a last name), even though Rin's death happened after Obito's death and in order for Obito to become a super villain because of Rin's death, he would have to go back in time and not die so he could see Rin's death and then devise this super villain plan to enslave the world.

Yeah, it's all BS and I don't understand how people give Kishi any credit for it at this point. The only logical conclusion is that Tobi is really someone else who's just using Obito's Body and trolling Kakashi to throw him off his game.

I feel the exact same way but unfortunately, Kishi will go ahead with this BS whether it's logical or not. I was hoping for a body hopper but my that died as soon as Madara actually called him Obito; looks like we need to brace for a huge s*** storm.

Also, I hope all the people who argued that it should be Obito because of the supposed "emotional reaction" are happy.

Yeah, real emotional. Adds tons to the story's depth.

[Skillios]

Anyone who thinks love isnt a good reason to go evil has never loved anyone very much. just sayin

[Animaeon]

I later got reminded of something Nagato said to Naruto;

"War brings death and wounds and pain to both sides. There's nothing harder to accept than the deaths of those you love... So you believe.. they could never die.
Especially those who haven't known war.. like your generation... You try to find meaning in death.. but.. there's only pain and hatred that you don't know what to do with. Dying like trash.. neverending hatred... pain that never heals. That.. is war."

I wouldn't be surprised if this speech will be flashbacked in the future chapters xD

[dEsHmAhOo]

hope the 5 kages join the team... sasuke and other great jounin of different villages...