View Poll Results: Who would win... in my opinion...jiraiya... state yours

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  • Jiraiya

    23 57.50%
  • Itachi

    17 42.50%
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  1. #26
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    and

    "Itachi's specialty was genjutsu, so he will counter the frog song without problems"
    and
    "Itachi is very fast proabably faster than Jiraya in sage mode"


    and *drums*

    * Ofc, Jiraya would find a way to counter Susano'o !! He's Jiraya after all! *
    so true

    yay you know how to write a lot. guess what, these are all opinions from you. and the facts that you DO explain never explain how itachi can kill jiraiya.
    And neither do your opinions or facts of Jiraiya.

    There is one resounding fact quoted at the beginning though

    Itachi is the master of genjutsu and Jiraiyas most powerful attack (or toads i should say, its not jiraiyas its the toads) is frog song genjutsu

    =Itachi wins

    Itachi has yatas mirror which is COMPLETELY seperate from susanou, they are legendary items which orochimaru and zetsu knew about, ergo if they were based on and only on susanou, zetsu would have known what it was.

    Zetsu was freaked out by susanou-but knew about yatas mirror, logically, this means yatas mirror is SEPERATE from susanou, itachi simply used it at the end for ease, coincidentally while using susanou as well.

    Itachi cannot be harmed at all and was valued as invincible by zetsu, who is #1 information gatherer and appears to know a lot most don't

    =Itachi wins, Jman would eventually have to flee

    fleeing=loss.

    Itachi sees through most ninjutsu, and is fast, and has a myriad of powerful eye techs.

    Jman is quite vulnerable to eye techs, he admits he isnt that great at genjutsu and why he used toads to do the genjutsu, so i highly doubt Jman could outsmart Itachis genjutsu, considering Itachi is the best genjutsu user we have ever seen.


    The Jiraiya fan-club is so misguided its unbelievable, yeah he was a great sannin, best out of the 3 more than likely, and very talented.

    But you gotta realise Itachi gained ANBU status as a teenager, wiped out the entire uchiha clan by himself and tobi, and we have never actually seen him fight full strength.

    The closest we ever got was Itachi vs sasuke, and itachi PWNED sasuke and itachi was only PLAYING AROUND.

    Seriously, Itachis skills go far beyond what we have seen.
     
         

  2. #27
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    stop with this discussion....Evryone keeps thinking that Itachis MS was end of the battle...He always used MS techs as last resort...Heres a list how it can be defeated.
    1)Sowrd of totsuki:-It cast eternal genjutsu, which is useless against one who can absorb Natural Energy, so is Tsukuyomi as good as shit...

    2)Amaterasu:-Well that could be a problem, but summoning belly of great toad can solve dat problem, Itachi used Amaterasu at full power to break free of Toad belly, so toad belly is perfect counter.

    Talking about Kisame and Itachi being sarcastic, is senseless, we can not tell from manga and anime wheather they were sarcastic.
    And Itachi and Kisame both are very good shinobis and love to fight, so fighting someone like J-Man is obviously encouraging for them...

    As per databook 3 Itachi and J-Man were equal, so itachi is neither stronger nor weaker than J-Man, Kisame is outranked...

    Talking about Itachi defeating Oro and oro defeating itachi is diffrent... Itachi and oro fight for kill, oro and jiraiya fight was diffrent. J-man didn't wanted to kill oro so this can not be compared...

    So is Oro keeping up with 4t Naruto and J-man getting severely injured....Oro wanted to kill naruto so was using everything he had, J-Man wanted to save naruto, so he didnt used best of his techs... So J-Man and oro can not be compared...

    Frog Song being based on sound and Itachis genjutsu based on eyes or seals are diffrent. So we can not be sure, whether Frog Song can work on Itachi or not, it worked on dead people defeating rinnegean like Pain's bodies, so it can work on itachi...
    J-Man said he is weak in using genjutsu not against genjutsu, so how did u come to know J-Man was weak against eye techs...If he was he would not have looked eye to eye against itachi..

    Tobi the sharingan user using pain is because, he brainwashed pain by taking advantage of pains own goal, they did not fight so we dont know who was stronger...
     
         
    Last edited by Orion; 07-10-2009 at 12:11 PM.

  3. #28
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    stop with this discussion....Evryone keeps thinking that Itachis MS was end of the battle...He always used MS techs as last resort...Heres a list how it can be defeated.
    1)Sowrd of totsuki:-It cast eternal genjutsu, which is useless against one who can absorb Natural Energy, so is Tsukuyomi as good as shit...
    wtf...

    Itachi used tsukyomi against sasuke when he was a genin, and kakashi when kisame could have done the job just as well.
    He used it against deidara also before the fight even began

    Last resort??

    Itachi uses Mangekyou at the beginning of every single battle he has EVER been in.

    Everytime we have seen itachi fight, he has used MS, and you say he uses it as last resort??

    BS to the extreme.



    Also, who the **** read the manga stating Mangekyou sharingan is useless against sage mode??

    Where does the manga state natural energy deflects mangekyou tsukyomi??

    I never remember reading that,

    you sage mode/Jiraiya fans are making up complete falsehoods about hermit mode and its greatness.

    Sage mode is the newest thing, so suddenly everyones of the idea that its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    Its not an end all be all.

    2)Amaterasu:-Well that could be a problem, but summoning belly of great toad can solve dat problem, Itachi used Amaterasu at full power to break free of Toad belly, so toad belly is perfect counter.
    Again, find me a manga page stating itachi used amaterasu to its "full power"

    Talking about Kisame and Itachi being sarcastic, is senseless, we can not tell from manga and anime wheather they were sarcastic.
    And Itachi and Kisame both are very good shinobis and love to fight, so fighting someone like J-Man is obviously encouraging for them...
    Itachi doesn't like to fight.

    As per databook 3 Itachi and J-Man were equal, so itachi is neither stronger nor weaker than J-Man, Kisame is outranked...
    databook 3 eh?

    well pink ponies states iruka is better than pain.

    Im only interested in manga here, and partial anime areas where kishi appears to have dabbled in its making to certain references.
    Databook can **** right off.

    Talking about Itachi defeating Oro and oro defeating itachi is diffrent... Itachi and oro fight for kill, oro and jiraiya fight was diffrent. J-man didn't wanted to kill oro so this can not be compared...
    Yes Jiraiya did fight to kill, its in the manga when he was talking to tsunade before he went against pain.

    Itachi also didnt kill orochimaru either time, first time was genjutsu paralysis, 2nd time was eternal genjutsu, both of which Jiraiya has NEVER shown any defence to, the frogs have never suggested a counter against itachis moves.

    Frog Song being based on sound and Itachis genjutsu based on eyes or seals are diffrent. So we can not be sure, whether Frog Song can work on Itachi or not, it worked on dead people defeating rinnegean like Pain's bodies, so it can work on itachi...
    J-Man said he is weak in using genjutsu not against genjutsu, so how did u come to know J-Man was weak against eye techs...If he was he would not have looked eye to eye against itachi..
    Genjutsu is genjutsu, it is chakra moulding the brains electrical signals into an illusion, this was explained in the manga, the only way to stop it is to shoot chakra into the body to disrupt this flow making the illusion, of course, this doesnt work against MANGEKYOU (until 8tails did it, i believe this is a ****ed up contradiction kishi made a mistake on, considering kakashi mentioned to chiyo that were they against standard sharingan, chakra injections would work, but not against mangekyou)

    Frog song genjutsu is simply very strong genjutsu, it makes strong signals, and because it is sound it is very difficult to dodge, however it still remains a genjutsu, of which itachi is an expert, and evidence certainly suggest #1 expert in.

    I don't see any manga chapters stating frog song genjutsu is impossible to counter, if one is especially talented in genjutsu (itachi certainly being talented) it should not be much to counter it.

    Pain countered frog song genjutsu also, simply by reviving the bodies, its certainly not an end all jutsu.

    Using genjutsu and defending against genjutsu is pretty much the same thing, using genjutsu requires using chakra to change an opponents brain waves.
    defending genjutsu is to disrupt chakra affecting the persons brain waves.

    Both are similar in use.

    Tobi the sharingan user using pain is because, he brainwashed pain by taking advantage of pains own goal, they did not fight so we dont know who was stronger...
    Maybe so, maybe not, either way, the 4th stated tobi is the brains and bulk behind akatsuki, and even the 4th (who may i remind everyone was stronger than Jiraiya) couldnt even TOUCH tobi, and tobi saw through every move the 4th made.

    Yet i do remember one fact, oh yes, itachi FOUND tobi, and knew what tobi was up to, spied on tobi, and made tobi anxious to continue akatsukis plans until itachi was dead.


    If itachi didnt have yatas mirror, id say it was on the fence, but yatas mirror really does make itachi invulnerable, and even if it does have a weakness, its like pain vs jiraiya, figuring out a secret while fighting is tough, takes time, and ultimately, when you figure it out, you may not have the chakra left to combat it.

    Yatas mirror means no attack harms itachi.

    Id say thats a pretty certain thing to say Itachi is stronger than most if not all ninjas we have seen so far.

    Until proof states yatas mirror can be broken or fought against, itachi is currently invulnerable to attack-same as tobi.

    Tobi and Itachi are ranked #1 by the mere fact no attacks hurt them, and itachi makes a mockery of most ninjas, he can fight against groups and still win...at 30% chakra levels (kakashi, chiyo, sakura, naruto)

    Tobi can take on 9 ninjas all of high chuunin to high jounin to semi hokage level (Kakashi considered a good hokage replacement at the time of this fight)

    Bah, its annoying, and the storyline is sucking because of it....But sharingan is overpowered and makes a mockery of the sannin and other strong ninja, but its silly to cloud your brain and become a slave of fandom.

    Anything that has the sharingan is pretty much guaranteed the #10 ninja spot and above.

    Shitty and cheap-I agree

    But its fact
     
         

  4. #29
    your bro. Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan's Avatar
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    june 2009...nuff said.
     

    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post

    * Ofc, Jiraya would find a way to counter Susano'o !! He's Jiraya after all! *

    There is no proof that i said that just because.

    Susanoo drains a person's chakra if used.

    He is slow, and YOmi Numa can eventually make him slower to the point where he doesn't become that much of an issue. By that much of an issue i mean about 10 %. This is all a theoretical percentage based on speed, and accuracy.


    So therefore i do not see how what you just stated has anything to do with this post.

    Those who say this beats this without proving...(whether it is jiraiya or Itachi)... doesn't count.


    In the end this is an opinionated discussion.


    Do not label me as an ignorant fan boy of Jiraiya. prove to me through my posts that i voted for Jiraiya blindly and i will gladly accept that title.


    Well, the poll has declared that Jiraiya would be victorious... so that's the final answer.


    Good to talk to you all.
     
         

  5. #30
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    The Only Reason I Think Itachi Would Of Won Was Because Of Sasanoo
     
         

  6. #31
    your bro. Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan's Avatar
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    june 2009...nuff said.
     

    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Anything that has the sharingan is pretty much guaranteed the #10 ninja spot and above.

    Shitty and cheap-I agree

    But its fact

    The last three sentences/lines you wrote, has made you sound ignorant to the concept of skill.

    Sharingan DOES NOT guarantee anything if there is no skill involved. It's the exact same concept if i used a different example.
    Here it is:


    IF someone has an AK47 in their hand against a person with a knife given a far distance between the two... the person with the AK47 isn't guaranteed to win the fight if they do not know how to use it.


    Apply the same logic to a person with a sharingan vs. a person without a Sharingan.
    Accuracy, Speed, Strength, Wisdom, and Intellect are the factors that will and must be used to determine the outcome of a fight between Jiraiya and ITachi.

    Those five attributes could be classified under skill.


    The person with the more skill (or five attributes mentioned above) will be the winner.

    I have already argued why Jiraiya would win the fight and because i backed it up with proof, it is a proper argument.

    Based on my experience from reading the manga and watching the episodes and based on Jiraiya's previous fights, i believe that he is the more skilled person.

    I am not saying Jiraiya would win JUST BECAUSE. I gave evidence why.

    If you gave evidence WHY Itachi would win, which in some of your latter posts, you have (good for you)... then it becomes a debatable argument, Which it is.


    So don't go around telling people that this person would win just because or Sage mode is overpowered... because that is not the case if you are referring to me, the OP.

    thanks for reading.
     
         

  7. #32
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    can't we just agree that they both die after each putting up a respectable fight
     
         

  8. #33
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedHyuga View Post
    can't we just agree that they both die after each putting up a respectable fight
    I Know Its So Sad Dow
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    can't we just agree that they both die after each putting up a respectable fight
     
         

  10. #35
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    wtf...

    Itachi used tsukyomi against sasuke when he was a genin, and kakashi when kisame could have done the job just as well.
    He used it against deidara also before the fight even began

    Last resort??

    Itachi uses Mangekyou at the beginning of every single battle he has EVER been in.

    Everytime we have seen itachi fight, he has used MS, and you say he uses it as last resort??

    BS to the extreme.
    Yup Itachi uses MS techs as last resort...He first fight of Kakashi with normal jutsus, when he saw Kakashi is as good as him in using Sharingan(Itachi himself said that), he used MS as using other jutsus against one who have copied 1000 jutsus, would have been either useless or would have taken time...
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/14/

    Kisame doing job just as well, bull****
    Itachi himself said, Kakashi against Kisame fight would have taken time...
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/07/


    Also, who the **** read the manga stating Mangekyou sharingan is useless against sage mode??

    Where does the manga state natural energy deflects mangekyou tsukyomi??

    I never remember reading that,

    you sage mode/Jiraiya fans are making up complete falsehoods about hermit mode and its greatness.

    Sage mode is the newest thing, so suddenly everyones of the idea that its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
    Its not an end all be all.
    Sage Mode works by absorbing Natural Energy, so amount of chakra in body keeps changing, in the same way Kirabis chakra level changes by mixing up with 8-tails chakra...So genjutsu of any kind is useless....Be it with hand signs or MS or sword of totsuki...

    Again, find me a manga page stating itachi used amaterasu to its "full power"
    He first used only Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, and then Amaterasu to run, why he had to run after breaking free, simply bcoz after using Amaterasu he had not much energy left to fight,

    Itachi doesn't like to fight.
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/143/17/


    Yes Jiraiya did fight to kill, its in the manga when he was talking to tsunade before he went against pain.
    May be...
    Itachi also didnt kill orochimaru either time, first time was genjutsu paralysis, 2nd time was eternal genjutsu, both of which Jiraiya has NEVER shown any defence to, the frogs have never suggested a counter against itachis moves.
    How can you say, We have not seen Jiraiya against Genjutsu...

    Genjutsu is genjutsu, it is chakra moulding the brains electrical signals into an illusion, this was explained in the manga, the only way to stop it is to shoot chakra into the body to disrupt this flow making the illusion, of course, this doesnt work against MANGEKYOU (until 8tails did it, i believe this is a ****ed up contradiction kishi made a mistake on, considering kakashi mentioned to chiyo that were they against standard sharingan, chakra injections would work, but not against mangekyou)
    WTF....Natural Energy absorbtion does the same thing it changes level of chakra in body just like Bijju does for host, Natural Energy is perfect counter for any genjutsu...

    Frog song genjutsu is simply very strong genjutsu, it makes strong signals, and because it is sound it is very difficult to dodge, however it still remains a genjutsu, of which itachi is an expert, and evidence certainly suggest #1 expert in.

    I don't see any manga chapters stating frog song genjutsu is impossible to counter, if one is especially talented in genjutsu (itachi certainly being talented) it should not be much to counter it.

    Pain countered frog song genjutsu also, simply by reviving the bodies, its certainly not an end all jutsu.
    Forg genjutsu workd by paralysing brain, not by showing some illusions, so we don't know whether Itachi can counter it or not...As you said based on manga, Itachi never showed any defence against frog genjutsu...

    Using genjutsu and defending against genjutsu is pretty much the same thing, using genjutsu requires using chakra to change an opponents brain waves.
    defending genjutsu is to disrupt chakra affecting the persons brain waves.

    Both are similar in use.
    WTF...Both are exactly opposite...In using you disrupt chakra flow of others and in using you disrupt chakra flow of your own so other party can not control it bcoz of change in chakra level...

    Maybe so, maybe not, either way, the 4th stated tobi is the brains and bulk behind akatsuki, and even the 4th (who may i remind everyone was stronger than Jiraiya) couldnt even TOUCH tobi, and tobi saw through every move the 4th made.
    I am not talking about those two....

    If itachi didnt have yatas mirror, id say it was on the fence, but yatas mirror really does make itachi invulnerable, and even if it does have a weakness, its like pain vs jiraiya, figuring out a secret while fighting is tough, takes time, and ultimately, when you figure it out, you may not have the chakra left to combat it.

    Yatas mirror means no attack harms itachi.

    Id say thats a pretty certain thing to say Itachi is stronger than most if not all ninjas we have seen so far.

    Until proof states yatas mirror can be broken or fought against, itachi is currently invulnerable to attack-same as tobi.
    Hiding behind something is equal to runniing....If you can not attack with it and other one is not attacking you any kind of shields are pretty useless..
     
         

  11. #36
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    lol, i'm never going to change my mind on this topic. from my opinions and the facts i've seen. i will always say that sage arts destroys mangekyou sharingan. people who try to change my mind on saying itachi could defeat jiraiya are seriously wasting their time by typing. these are all opinions, we've never seen them fight, so we'll never know 100% for sure who really is stronger. so i'll forever say jiraiya.

    jiraiya<itachi
    naruto<sasuke
     
         

  12. #37
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Fleeing a battle means he has won against itachi??

    Sure are some weird rules being listed here.

    Yes, tsukyomi is simply a will drainer, however there is no way to cast off mangekyou sharingan genjutsu, when sasuke broke it, itachi did it on purpose, that was the plan all along, only 8tails managed to stop sasukes mangekyou genjutsu, and im under the opinion thats because sasuke is a gay emo **** with 1% of the talent his brother held with tsukyomi.
    lol

    thats wrong killer bee could break genjutsu because he had two chakra sources one could flow chakra into the other thus rendering genjutsu useless itachi could not keep them in genjutsu either


    The 3 sannin are out-dated, the new generation beats the first.

    Even the 4th was better than Jiraiya, orochimaru has fought Jiraiya and survived, and orochimaru got owned by itachi TWICE.

    Jiraiyas strong, but compared to the big dogs of akatsuki (Paink, Madara, itachi) he's quite pathetic
    .

    if ur gonna make a claim this dynamic a little proof would be beneficial or at least grounds for ur thesis (and the generational passing doesnt count as it is broad and not all ninja are included)

    Also pains "if jiraiya had known, hed have beaten me" is questionable
    Most of konoha once realising his secret knew how to beat pain.

    It doesn't mean Jiraiyas kickass though.

    The problem with "if hed known the secret behind my attacks" is thats the whole point of ninjutsu etc.

    Its meant to look impossible to beat until you figure out the trick, this is what every fight involving shikamaru teaches us.
    how is this questionable u saw naruto's fight (granted he lost the first half) he overcame pein simply bacuase he knew the major details of is fighting style
    and pein having multiple bodies and the real one not being present is the tactic he was refering to not a ninjutsu

    Itachi has yatas mirror, IT DOESNT REQUIRE SUSANOU to be used.

    susanou is a summon, that is all, totsuka sword and yatas mirror are legendary items, they are seperate.

    Oro looked for totsuka, and oro wouldnt bother if it meant a sharingan summon requirement.

    Itachis yatas mirror is an item, therefore theoretically requires no chakra.

    Zetsu himself stated, itachi is INVINCIBLE.

    ergo Jiraiya doesnt own itachi.

    Hell even Tobi was scared of itachi, afterall, amaterasu DOES affect tobi, and itachi is very VERY smart.
    Tobi planned for itachis death etc, and tobi himself said if itachi was fighting for real, sasuke would have been killed many times over.

    Admittedly, itachi is overpowered, maybe thats why its a good thing he's dead.

    Pain killed Jiraiya with ease and very quickly once he actually used his full capacity, he was toying with Jiraiya with the 3 lesser bodies, and taking on 3 required Jman to use his strongest genjutsu from the toads, and even that failed and pain continued with more bodies.

    Pain is being ordered around by a sharingan user-Tobi

    Itachi is on par or very close to Tobi in skill, as many have stated in the Madara vs oro thread, how itachis a good comparison as he beat oro and tobi would be similar given sharingan.

    So, personally, itachi wins.

    Thing is i personally am of the opinion that itachi is #1 ninja so far.

    Until i see tobi fighting he'll remain there personally.

    Itachi would have made an AWESOME hokage.
    overall ur arguement is incomplete and onesided if u argue a scenario no one will take u serious if all u do is ramble on about how itachi wins with an extensive list of his abilities and in simple terms state that j -man would lose

    its biased and in accurate
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Yup Itachi uses MS techs as last resort...He first fight of Kakashi with normal jutsus, when he saw Kakashi is as good as him in using Sharingan(Itachi himself said that), he used MS as using other jutsus against one who have copied 1000 jutsus, would have been either useless or would have taken time...
    No...he doesnt.

    He uses MS in every single fight we have seen him in, most of them not as last resorts but simply because he can.

    He used tsukyomi against sasuke when he was a 5 year old child for ****s sakes.

    Kisame doing job just as well, bull****
    Itachi himself said, Kakashi against Kisame fight would have taken time...
    Yeah sure okay, kisame is in akatsuki because he is weaker than kakashi by that stage...even though kakashi freely admitted he is no match for orochimaru who was in akatsuki.

    Hmmm...somethings not right here...

    Kakashi has no chance against oro...who was in akatsuki

    Kisame getting the job done is bullshit, meaning hes weaker than kakashi...so therefore weaker than orochimaru...

    Hmmm.

    Sorry, i have a high IQ, i cant understand what the **** youre talking about because it is contradictory and makes no damn sense.

    Sage Mode works by absorbing Natural Energy, so amount of chakra in body keeps changing, in the same way Kirabis chakra level changes by mixing up with 8-tails chakra...So genjutsu of any kind is useless....Be it with hand signs or MS or sword of totsuki...
    spirit/physical chakra are two types you mix to make jutsus.

    How come you cant simply cast of genjutsu that way??

    You have made an assumption based on a jinchuuriki's powers and put them into sage mode

    Thus there is 0 evidence for what you're saying, and kishi screwed up, Itachi said MS is impossible to avoid...even normal sharingan has limited resistance against it.

    Meaning what characters say can CHANGE, OR, youre talking bullshit and kishi ****ed up.

    Take your pic, theyre the only logical options.

    He first used only Tsukuyomi on Sasuke, and then Amaterasu to run, why he had to run after breaking free, simply bcoz after using Amaterasu he had not much energy left to fight,
    I asked for proof itachi used amaterasu at "full power" as you stated.

    This doesnt prove he used amaterasu at full power, it proves he used amaterasu, and it was a tiny fire compared to itachi vs sasuke, and tobi stated itachi was only playing with him...so....full powered amaterasu by itachi would be freakin huge considering itachi covered a mass of land with it.

    May be...
    No...YES, he wanted to kill orochimaru and when he repeatedly failed he instead gave up and simply tracked down akatsuki and information gathered.

    Jiraiya and oro are sannin, they are of equal level.

    Sannin are out-dated, and akatsuki are in general far stronger than sannins, especially the likes of

    tobi
    pain
    itachi

    Itachis teacher was tobi/madara, and itachi is a close 2nd if not joint 1st in skill and power with tobi.

    Tobi knows itachi wants him dead (itachi implanting amaterasu into sasuke etc)

    Did tobi ever fight itachi?
    Kick him out?
    Get other members to take him out?

    No, and he was forwarding info to jiraiya it seems, so why didnt tobi do anything?

    Probably because he knew even if he got most akatsuki on his ass itachi has to simply fire up yatas mirror (NOT REQUIRING SUSANOU) and amaterasu a massive radius around him.

    How can you say, We have not seen Jiraiya against Genjutsu...
    Yeah because otherwise he'd lose lol.

    Admittedly jiraiya simply stated to naruto his weakest talent is in genjutsu.

    Remember jiraiya is like naruto, hes not a genius, hes a hard working gutsy ninja, and has some intelligence, like naruto, at the right time when its needed.

    WTF....Natural Energy absorbtion does the same thing it changes level of chakra in body just like Bijju does for host, Natural Energy is perfect counter for any genjutsu...
    There is no proof natural energy does the same thing as a jinchuriiki.

    If sage mode is so similar, why was the frog tossed out of narutos body by 9tails?

    Obviously there is some form of difference in the energies as 9tails noticed its presence and didnt like it, if it was so similar/same the 9tails would be none the wiser.

    To say sage mode is parrallel to having a bijuu is just silly, never in the manga is that stated, at all, or even hinted at.

    Forg genjutsu workd by paralysing brain, not by showing some illusions, so we don't know whether Itachi can counter it or not...As you said based on manga, Itachi never showed any defence against frog genjutsu...
    Paralysis??

    Similar to itachi vs oro? lol
    Itachi is a genjutsu legend, while admittedly there is no direct statement he can defend against it, it is likely, meaning maybe he can, maybe he cant, but if you read the manga this friday with itachi counterng it, would you be surprised?

    A genjutsu legend that counters a genjutsu-not exactly surprising stuff.

    WTF...Both are exactly opposite...In using you disrupt chakra flow of others and in using you disrupt chakra flow of your own so other party can not control it bcoz of change in chakra level...
    At the end of the day its very careful manipulation of chakra in the brain, to use it and disrupt it.
    It was explained ages ago, how brains chakra is changed to make illusions etc and requires careful manipulation.

    I am not talking about those two....
    No but tobi is like itachi, both have very powerful sharingans, are smart and have appear to be equal in strength.

    If the 4th had a hard time getting tobi, you can bet your ass the 4th would have trouble with itachi

    Itachi>4th>jiraiya

    Jiraiya freely admits the 4th would own his ass

    Hiding behind something is equal to runniing....If you can not attack with it and other one is not attacking you any kind of shields are pretty useless..
    Hiding is what ninjas do, the first thing we see in kakashis training is making them hide, in fact was hiding the ninja #1 priority?
    Isnt many fights won by ambush via hiding in the narutoverse fights??

    Running is equal to running

    Hiding is using a tool and getting a top spot on the enemy.

    lol

    thats wrong killer bee could break genjutsu because he had two chakra sources one could flow chakra into the other thus rendering genjutsu useless itachi could not keep them in genjutsu either
    which again i point out, is contradictory.

    Kishi stated MS tsukyomi cannot be bettered, only someone with another MS can beat him (itachi faked sasuke winning against his tsukyomi)

    Therefore there are 2 scenarios

    1.What kishi says can change (powers and how a jutsu works etc)
    2.Kishi ****ed up and made a contradiction to what he previously stated.

    if ur gonna make a claim this dynamic a little proof would be beneficial or at least grounds for ur thesis (and the generational passing doesnt count as it is broad and not all ninja are included)
    I used the Itachi beat orochimaru who fought equally with jiraiya logic.

    That is transitive inference, google it.

    It is a widely accepted mathematical fact and is used throughout many things on this planet with amazing accuracy.

    dynamic and broad my ass, it was clearly as to the point as anything can get.

    how is this questionable u saw naruto's fight (granted he lost the first half) he overcame pein simply bacuase he knew the major details of is fighting style
    and pein having multiple bodies and the real one not being present is the tactic he was refering to not a ninjutsu

    Kishi said jiraiya wouldve won if he'd known his secret-Naruto barely did and knew everything about pain, had a more advanced sage mode, AND released 8tailed form, AND pain couldnt use god realm and was weakened, bleeding, and had used most of his chakra, when jiraiya got owned by 4tail form alone, which even orochimaru defended better against....lol...I think i have more than proved my point, if you dont get it-you never will.


    overall ur arguement is incomplete and onesided if u argue a scenario no one will take u serious if all u do is ramble on about how itachi wins with an extensive list of his abilities and in simple terms state that j -man would lose

    its biased and in accurate
    No its called an argument, its not my fault itachis jutsus are 1 hit wonders and have little to no defence against

    Tsukyomi-Originally stated to be unavoidable and impossible to cancel unless the user does
    Amaterasu-massive range and power and very few jutsus to avoid, sasukes method used most of his chakra, meaning the enemy will be hard pressed fighting if theyre using buttload of chakra
    Susanou which we dont know what it does, but it HOLDS a sword of eternal genjutsu and MAYBE yatas mirror (legendary items equipped to susanou, not requirement for usage of them)

    Proof in this is that both orochimaru and zetsu knew of the items, but knew nothing of susanou, if the items are bound to susanou, and they knew the items, logically they must know about susanou.

    They didnt know about susanou, therefore

    1.Kishi ****ed up
    2.The items are SEPERATE from susanou.

    Yatas mirror voids all jutsus and attacks.

    Thats one hell of a ****ing resume for itachi, im hard pressed thinking of a ninja who could fight on equal ground with itachi, even pain would have severe trouble.

    Anyway, Itachi was a badass dude. But his statement about Jirayas strength was all the proof that we should need, because the AUTHOR put it in there. And no matter what WE say its KISHI's opinion that counts.
    Kishi also said MS tsukyomi is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid, and 8tails did it.

    Kishi also had kakashi say zabuza was too strong for the 3 genin-they got him

    AGAIN

    Kishi said jiraiya wouldve won if he'd known his secret-Naruto barely did and knew everything about pain, had a more advanced sage mode, AND released 8tailed form, AND pain couldnt use god realm and was weakened, bleeding, and had used most of his chakra, when jiraiya got owned by 4tail form alone, which even orochimaru defended better against....lol

    ....

    Its not that your statement has no merit, it does have merit, my problem is that kishi's writing is confusing and sometimes blatantly contradicts itself, and powers are up and down like a rollercoaster with naruto.

    It makes gauging strengths nearly impossible when it comes to naruto.

    Ill admit you have a point, though i must point out kishis style isnt accurate, yes he made the series but my last point clearly shows how pain was vastly superior to the new naruto yet the old naruto(4tails) nearly killed jiraiya
     
         

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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    jiraiya would get pwned by itachi
     
         

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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan View Post
    1. Susanoo is far less dangerous with knowledge. Jiraiya can just simply flee and let Susanoo completely drain Itachi. Of course Yomi Numa can counter it anyway IMO, so I don't see Susanoo as a big issue. Back to the flee point, it would also give him time to prep Frog Song.

    2. Itachi's 1 chance to win this fight is Amaterasu and even that can be debated. It is a LONG shot that Jiraiya would be able to seal it off of himself, so I wont argue that case. That said, there are some other things to consider.

    A. I cannot imagine Jiraiya sealed it for no reason. So given the knowledge he is given by the fact that he should have his own knowledge we aren't fully aware of, its not as dangerous as it normally would be.

    3. We saw Madara do something to get rid of it, most assume had to do with his phasing out of existence, which is a space/time transportation type thing. If you agree with all of that, then there is a chance reverse summoning would remove Amaterasu from a person. Maybe traversing the space/time barrier has that sort of effect. I am not saying this is the case, just something to think about.

    4. Frog Song could still be an issue here due to speed and distance. With full knowledge on each other it may just be IC for Jiraiya and them to come out swinging in full force. They knew Pain was tough so they brought Naruto with a mini army and prepped SM and all that. They even came ready to use their "mini" Frog Song. So with such a starting distance and all stipulations provided there really isn't much Itachi can do to win this.

    By the time he gets to Jiraiya there could be 3 boss summons which will require every bit Itachi has to take care of. His only chance at taking them all 3 quickly would be via Susanoo, but that entails a massive chakra drain or even death.....still not sure exactly how quickly Susanoo kills him or the full effect it would have


    Also, Tsukuyomi has yet to kill any one in the manga. At best it will weaken the spirit of the victim.

    Weak willed ppl will die ppl with strong willpower will survive.
    Jiraiya is by no means weak willed. He infact has more willpower than many ppl in the manga including kakashi. I mean he willed himself back to life to give a dying message to konoha and then he took a rocket hit head on before dying. I think he can tank Tsukuyomi

    /discuss
    1. Sussano is not far less dangerous with knowlage, which makes no difference anyway becasue Jiraiya has never Seen Sussano, If Jiraiya runs he just lost the fight and its not like Itachi will let him leave he will thrust the sword at jiraiya the minute he trys to leave, Sussano is faster then people think and has a large range
    2.So by your logic amaterasu isnt as dangerous because jiraiya has seen and sealed it before. How does that make it less dangerous? Does sealing it make it less hot in anyway? No it doesnt and Jiraiya doesnt know that the fire goes on the spot where the user looks so its no less dangerous.
    3.If Jiraiya was hit with amaterasu and a frog summoned him somewhere else, first off he fleed and thats a loss and second the fire would go with him. Tobi is able to get rid of it because he is physically able to phase out parts of his body so he prettly much makes him self tangable if he wants to. Jiraiya cant do that
    4. So? Frog song genjutsu takes alot of time to set up and get ma and pa to get the pitch right which gives away their position. The only reason pain got hit was because jiraiya was able to distract the pains, instead of running he attacked them which caught them off guard, but since all itachi has to do is look at jiraiya to put him under tsukuyomi, thats the advantage right there. Itachis genjutsu takes no time whats so ever and he can probabally do it without jiraiya even knowing what he is about to do.

    Jiraiya in no way can handle a Tsukuyomi, Thats a basiless assumption. Fighting Tsukuyomi has nothing to do with the will power of the person, only someone with a sharingan stronger than Itachis (sasuke, i guess) can take on and beat Tsukuyomi, Now jiraiya has no sharingan does he?
     
         

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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan View Post
    The last three sentences/lines you wrote, has made you sound ignorant to the concept of skill.

    Sharingan DOES NOT guarantee anything if there is no skill involved. It's the exact same concept if i used a different example.
    Here it is:


    IF someone has an AK47 in their hand against a person with a knife given a far distance between the two... the person with the AK47 isn't guaranteed to win the fight if they do not know how to use it.


    [U][I]Apply the same logic to a person with a sharingan vs. a person without a Sharingan.
    Accuracy, Speed, Strength, Wisdom, and Intellect are the factors that will and must be used to determine the outcome of a fight between Jiraiya and ITachi.
    First of all your saying that sharingan is useless if the person doesnt know how to use it am i correct? Well since when is Itachi, The true heir of the sharingan, a novice with it??
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    i think itachi would win because according to oro and j man oro has always been stronger
    Naruto 166 page 02 | One Manga

    and if oro is strionger than j man the only difference will be j-mans genjutsu ability
    which is lower than itachis and that is itachi's main method of attacking
     
         

  18. #43
    Senior Member eyesofthekyuubi44's Avatar
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by kabumaru View Post
    i think itachi would win because according to oro and j man oro has always been stronger
    Naruto 166 page 02 | One Manga

    and if oro is strionger than j man the only difference will be j-mans genjutsu ability
    which is lower than itachis and that is itachi's main method of attacking
    Present me the chapter when it is agreed upon that Orochimaru is stronger then Jiraiya.

    Jiraiya is a beast. His name is JIRAIYA. That means beast of hardcore amazing in....foreign.

    Anyway, look at Naruto.wikia.org. It may not be the most reliable source, but MANY people have looked over it, and it serves as a sort of Naruto bible.

    "Being one of the three Legendary Sannin, Jiraiya was an immensely powerful ninja, being considered Kage-level. He stated that he had only been brought to the verge of death twice in his entire life, once when he was doing "research" on Tsunade, and when he used the toad key to weaken the demon fox's seal on Naruto's stomach. His strength was so great that even Itachi Uchiha and Kisame Hoshigaki, two of Akatsuki's most powerful members, opted not to face him in battle, fearing it would end in a stalemate or worse. Kisame even said that Jiraiya's skills far outclassed his own. Even Pain marvelled at Jiraiya's abilities, noting that Jiraiya would likely have won against Pain if he had had prior knowledge of Pain's six separate bodies. "

    Ok, so Jiraiya got hit by the four tails, which Orochimaru fought fairly evenly against. However we forget the "surprise" in which it was introduced. Jiraiya twisted the seal a "little" and a bunch of demon chakra BURST out of Naruto. Sounds to me as though he was taken by surprise. Whereas with Orochimaru, he took a hit from the 1-tailed form, dodged the 2-tails I think, taunted the 3-tails (which actually seemed to be a state that mighta gave him SOME trouble), and THEN fought the 4-tails, after he had gained a measure of its abilities. Jiraiya had NO idea what the 4-tails could do, for all we know he believed that the 4-tails would not attack him, and he got a little too close.
     
         

  19. #44
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesofthekyuubi44 View Post
    Present me the chapter when it is agreed upon that Orochimaru is stronger then Jiraiya.

    Jiraiya is a beast. His name is JIRAIYA. That means beast of hardcore amazing in....foreign.

    Anyway, look at Naruto.wikia.org. It may not be the most reliable source, but MANY people have looked over it, and it serves as a sort of Naruto bible.

    "Being one of the three Legendary Sannin, Jiraiya was an immensely powerful ninja, being considered Kage-level. He stated that he had only been brought to the verge of death twice in his entire life, once when he was doing "research" on Tsunade, and when he used the toad key to weaken the demon fox's seal on Naruto's stomach. His strength was so great that even Itachi Uchiha and Kisame Hoshigaki, two of Akatsuki's most powerful members, opted not to face him in battle, fearing it would end in a stalemate or worse. Kisame even said that Jiraiya's skills far outclassed his own. Even Pain marvelled at Jiraiya's abilities, noting that Jiraiya would likely have won against Pain if he had had prior knowledge of Pain's six separate bodies. "

    Ok, so Jiraiya got hit by the four tails, which Orochimaru fought fairly evenly against. However we forget the "surprise" in which it was introduced. Jiraiya twisted the seal a "little" and a bunch of demon chakra BURST out of Naruto. Sounds to me as though he was taken by surprise. Whereas with Orochimaru, he took a hit from the 1-tailed form, dodged the 2-tails I think, taunted the 3-tails (which actually seemed to be a state that mighta gave him SOME trouble), and THEN fought the 4-tails, after he had gained a measure of its abilities. Jiraiya had NO idea what the 4-tails could do, for all we know he believed that the 4-tails would not attack him, and he got a little too close.
    Naruto 166 page 02 | One Manga
    if oro thought he could handle jiaiyah in his weakened state and he knows what jiraiyah is capable of that should say it all

    Naruto 296 page 09 | One Manga
    orochimaru fought the kyubbi and the only permanant damage he recieved was a shortage on the lifespan of his current body

    and this fight was playtime to oro

    Naruto 296 page 09 | One Manga
    and it looks like kabuto knew that the body would not hold up long enough for oro to finish off the kyubii

    if he was at full power he would have pushed the kyubbi even further

    as i said earlier oro plyed with it and jiraiyah almost died

    thats a decent arguement i would say
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    i still go for itachi, but thats just my opinion
     
         

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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chidori602 View Post
    i still go for itachi, but thats just my opinion
    i agree ive been convinced

    but my only disclaimer is that if jiraiyah can escape itachi's genjutsu than this fight wil be so much harder for him but if he can hold him the same way he held oro than he's a goner
     
         

  22. #47
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

     
         

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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    only reason 8th tails can break the mangekyo sharigan genjutsu is bcuz the change of his chakra . all of the 8th jin's chakra in his network changed to the eights upon released. look at nejis vs naruto he block all of naruto chakra point so naruto use a new set of chakra to flow in his chakra network
     
         

  24. #49
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    1. Lets start with the convorsation between Kisame and Itachi. Whether they were telling the truth, which yes they prolly were. It doesnt mean anything. Kisame said Jiraiya could beat him. They said Jiraiya would Tie Itachi not beat him, read before you make assumptions

    2. Genjutsu - Does everyone seem to forget that Itachi is the absolute best genjutsu user in the naruto universe untill we see someone new? Frog song is a powerful genjutsu but there are 2 things that make it non effectie against itachi. 1. It takes a large amount of time and gives their position away, and Itachi is faster than the pain bodies anyway,2. Itachi is a much better genjutsu caster than jiraiya or the frogs, he can nullify just about any genjutsu, Genjutsu is Genjutsu no matter what sense it targets Plus that should be a null point because Itachi could put Jiraiya under genjutsu by looking at him in the eye or pointing his finger at the man. And Sage Mode might not work because Jiraiya might not be in sage mode. That takes time and we dont know how well that counteracts genjutsu, plus Itachi could put JIraiya and the frogs under it and then what.

    3. Taijutsu - With or without Sage Mode Jiraiya is at a horrible dissadvantage against Itachi. Does everyone forget that Itachi has Sharingan He can see all of Jiraiya's moves and plan to counteract them as most Uchiha can. Thats why the Uchiha are known as the worrior clan. Now even if Jiraiya is in Sage Mode thats still debatable on how strong he is. Yes i can imagine he would be physically stronger then Itachi, but remeber the fight between Jiraiya and Pain. Jiriaya slipped into the smoke to get Human realm from behind. Human realm stopped it because the other 2 pains were looking but he stopped Jiraiyas full punch with one hand and wasnt moved or phased by it. Itachis speed has been said to be incredible on more than one occasion. Kakashi and Sasuke, 2 people with sharingan couldnt keep up with him, and he was letting sasuke win.

    4. Ninjutsu - The most powerful abilitys of these 2 incredible ninja are Mangakyou Sharingan and Sage Mode. Both are powerful in their own way but if anyone thinks sage mode can win against MS they are just fooling themselves. Sage Mode isnt a perfect teqnique, First off it takes a large amount of time just standing still, and Jiraiya used a summon to fight pains summons to hold them off, but Itachi's style is completly different than pains, did anyone think that while jiraiya is just standing there Itachi could use anyone of his MS teqniques, Tsukuyomi would be fine as since it wont be hard to get a eye to eye glance between the 2 of them, amaterasu, well i mean if JIraiya can run than hes it and if he does run it disrupts the sage mode. and Sussano dont make me laugh one hit from the sword and Jiraiya is F'd. Itachis ninjutsu is much more vercitile in this battle sense. All three of his MS teqnieques takes litterally no time at all to put on the battlefield. Tsukuyomi, when he did it against kakashi asuma and kurinai didnt even know what just happend, amaterasu is concidered almostunivoidable as it just goes where the user is looking and Jiraiya(if gathering natural energy) will be caught off gaurd and burnt alive, and Sussano, Itachi pulled that off faster than the speed of light, when Sasuke used Kirin(prolly the fastest jutsu out there) Itachi used sussano before it hit him, and Sussano itself is fast as hell, Orochimaru, one of the sannin like Jiraiya got hit with the genjutsu sword without even seeing it coming and than yatas mirror. if someone can give me an explanation on how Jiraiya can get around that than Kudos to you

    Itachi stated that only someone with sharingan can beat sharingan
    Younger generation will always surrpass the older generation
     
         

  25. #50
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    Re: Reasons why i believe that Jiraiya would beat Itachi Uchiha in a battle:

    Of course it would be Jiraiya even when Itachi and Kisame met Jiraiya they escaped but barely because Jiraiya can summon a toads stomach and Kisame and Itachi only got out because Itachi used his amaterasu.
     
         

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