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  1. #1
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    I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Before i start explaining the obvious i ask from you to read the op or i will report you to the mod for spamming. Also flaming will not be tolerated, this time i am going to be serious. Comments like " jiraya would have raped" or vice versa will not be tolerated. Finally, do not even bother to reply without reading my post because i will have already answered your questions, so read and find an argument( I doubt you can, but that is up to you). I will probably include a poll in the future if i see some good arguments that will stirr discussions. Thank you!


    [B]p.s This is maybe going to be a long read. [B]




    The biggest misconception of all: Naruto 148 page 07 | One Manga etc... This has been used as argument again and again for every thread concering Jiraya even when putting him in a fight against different opponents.
    First of all, here is mistranslation:
    アナタならどうにかこうにかやれる相手でも私じゃあ分かりませんよ・・・
    次元が違う。
    ああ・・・
    やり合えば二人共殺されるか
    よくて相打ちというところ
    たとえ人数を増やしたとしても変わらないだろう
    ラーメン屋でやっと見つけてはいいが・・・
    お守り が あの伝説の三忍とは
    彼が相手では木ノ葉のうちは一族も霧の忍び刀人衆の名もかすんでしまう
    ああしかし・・・・
    どんな強者にも弱点というのがあるものだ・・・
    Credits go to mangahelpers for the raw.

    Translation and opinion as well as comment from Monzaemon: "I don't know about me, but I'm pretty sure you could've handled him"

    "Hmmm...we would either both be killed, or it would be a draw. It wouldn't matter if we went in with more people or not".

    Kisame brings up a certain individual, who Itachi states that they would die fighting against, and that it wouldn't matter if they went in with more people or not. Then the conversation continues:

    "His caretaker is one of the legendary Sannins".

    In the first part of the dialogue, they were talking about a certain individual, who they refer to as "him", and then they switch their conversation that same individual's caretaker. "His" caretaker.

    Comment from Gottheim:I've translated that little bit myself a while ago, and I've come to the same conclusion as the OP. Itachi wasn't referring to Jiraiya but to Naruto. He was expecting a fight against Kyuubi in a human form. Probably less powerful, but protected from MS. Jiraiya came as an afterthought: not that he was deemed a negligible threat. It's just that everything pales in comparison with the power of the Nine-Tails.

    So it is pretty obvious that jiraya and Itachi were reffering to Naruto and not Jiraya. They were afraid of his kuybi form. That was the reason they retreated. Itachi admits that they could take care of his Kuybi form with his mangekuy something that can be assumed from the fact that Itachi and Kisame tried to capture Naruto. Then Jiraya comes, uses his toad jutsu and Itachi has to use Amaterasu so as to escape it. He then admits that he is tired because of the usage of his Amaterasu as well as Tsukuyomi earlier when confronting Kakashi. He continues to say that because of his tireness he will be unable to use Mangekuy effectively so as to protect themselves from the fox so he has to retreat. kisame says that he would surely be no match for the fox but Itachi would still be able to fight it. Itachi then says that even for him the Naruto kuybi form would be a difficult fight that would end either of them getting killed or a draw. Is the misconception cleared now? Kisame and Itachi were afraid of the kuybi form because of Itachi tireness after using both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, oh and Tsukuyomi against Sasuke. Also, Jirayas presence was something that made them afraid but not as much as Narutos form. { Kisame was afraid of jiraya and Itachi of Kuybi form}

    Now, i am expecting to hear: " . Itachi is afraid of Naruto kuybi form. and etc" Some things to take into consideration before we make so many false assumptions: 1 Itachi was too tired.
    2 Itachi had no knowledge of narutos power with Kuybi.
    3 Itachi was an ally of Konoha. No reason for him to fight.
    4 Itachi was there only to warn Danzo and the elders about Sasuke.
    5 Itachi did not want to get himself in a useless fight. He kept surving because of the usage of medicine in order to fight Sasuke and pass him the mangekuy abillities. So no serious fight that would endager his life or render him uselless(lol.nagato) Else he would have fight Madara/

    So i proved wrong this argument. Oh the profiles from the translators:Naruto Forums and Naruto Forums

    iTACHI:
    Databook:Ninjutsu: 5
    Taijutsu: 4.5
    Genjutsu: 5
    Intelligence: 5
    Power: 3.5
    Speed: 5
    Stamina: 2.5
    Seals: 5
    (A beast)
    I cannot find Jirayas stats but if you can find them post them so as to add them. I think they are the same. However Itachis excellence is in more useful areas than Jirayas. jiraya may have more power and better taijutsu however Itachi is faster, has more speed when making seals and all of this speed is further augmented by Itachis sharingan that enable him to percieve things. Ninjutsu they have the same. And it comes down to genjutsu. Itachi is the most profficient genjutsu user. jiraya has admitted that he sucks in that section. You do the maths. Argument here: Itachi has lo stamina. So? Susano'o does the working here.

    Oh by the way, now that i said Susano'o: You can read my thread that i have done about that jutsu in which i explain how awesome it is, clearing every misconception for it. That is about Susanoos strength. However i have many times seen that Jiraya can run and kill Itachi from exhaustion(-facepalm-). jiraya would have no recollection for the abilities of Susanoo. He would more likely sit there do some jutsus like fire ball teqniques or whatever and then get stabbed from the fast like lighting sword of Totsuka. Now i am expecting to hear: Why shoud Jiraya sit there and get killed? First of all as i previously said Jiraya wont start running because he does not know about Susanoo. Have you seen many people running when their enemy is about to some uber hax jutsu that they do not know? The answer is no. Then, of course Jiraya can fight back. But no effect to the shield of Susanoo. Then Jiraya can run around susanno from far away. Susanoo is listed by databook close-long rage and is very fast(for more details in my thread).

    So it all comes down to: Toad frog song jutsu: The justu that killed three bodies of Pain. Then i come across this in databook:
    KEKKEI GENKAI; Genjutsu; Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Universe-Mirroring Reversal)
    User: Uchiha Itachi
    Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none

    Main text

    One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else.

    Caption

    -The mechanics of a false image is duplicated by these eyes, its effects largely turned back onto the enemy!!

    Picture coments

    -Conditions such as the presence or not of a Kekkei Genkai and the relative strength of both casters play a great part when operating this jutsu.

    -Thanks to the Sharingan's power, Itachi uses a similar technique.
    Who is stronger in the genjutsu area? Let me guess. Ah yeah itachi...

    And all of this assuming that it can go through the defence of the Susnno or that Jiraya will survive long enough. Whatever i proved wrong this argument too...
     
         
    Last edited by peaceful; 07-15-2009 at 12:08 AM.

  2. #2
    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Databook:
    Kekkei Genkai: Sharingan
    Users: Hatake Kakashi, Uchiha Sasuke
    Support, Short, Mid, Long ranges. Rank: none.

    Main text

    The Kekkei Genkai withheld in the blood of Konoha's finest lineage, the Uchiha clan. This unique ability, manifested only in a mere fraction [of people] even within the clan, is characterized by comma*-shaped markings in one's pupils. On top of an all-encompassing insight and powerful hypnosis, these eyes are hosts to a jutsu-copying ability that memorizes the techniques their gaze falls upon in an instant, and replicates them. Just like Kakashi who, in his fight against Zabuza, used it in such a way as to look like he could predict the future; according to their methods of use, the field of variations the caster can apply to their offense and defense expands indefinitely!!

    The power of insight hidden inside these eyes discerns the mechanics of all ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu without restriction, putting it above the crowd even by doujutsu standards. Furthermore, one can even see the patterns of their opponent's movements and attacks, striking firmly without fear of a counter-attack, avoiding lethal blows when defending, evading from offensive moves and so forth: one's combat ability is significantly improved in all kinds of aspects. An awe-inspiring ability for which the "Clairvoyant Eyes of Heaven**" would be an appropriate name indeed!!

    The Sharingan's true power, in addition to the threat posed by its insight... is its copying ability, that of making one's own any technique one sets eyes upon. Chakra, handseals... all the principles bringing the jutsu into existence will be recorded into the caster's memory in the blink of an eye, making its utilization possible. Of course, the necessary volume of chakra and physical ability requirements must be met, but should one find themselves in some kind of dire situation, the Uchiha blood will demonstrate its accumulated experience, and never will those who have inherited it know any limits (tn: i.e even if you can't use the jutsu you've copied, the info will still prove most useful provided you can rub two brain cells together)!!

    Captions

    -The Uchiha clan's God-given, clairvoyant doujutsu, transmitted by blood!!

    -Seeing through something and duplicating its principles for oneself.

    Picture comments

    -The Sharingan in Kakashi's left eye. With that power, he's copied over one thousand techniques.

    -Sasuke's Sharingan slightly differs from Kakashi's. Is it because it's not complete yet, or is there something else (tn: just goes to show you Kishi will squeeze all the mystery he can out of any situation, LOL)?

    -Reading through countless illusions in an instant. The jutsu's fundamentals, chakra amount and the like: those eyes will reflect matters in their entirety!!

    -Receiving a taijutsu blow only once, he makes it his own move!!
    LOL. Itachi with this? Powerful.

    Databook:
    Kekkei Genkai: Mangekyou Sharingan
    User: Uchiha Itachi
    Supportive, Close range, no rank.

    Main text

    The culmination of the Sharingan that makes the Uchiha clan so special! Eye techniques holding the utmost potency even above both the insight and hypnosis, such as Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu become possible. Assuredly, Mangekyou Sharingan is the ultimate doujutsu*.
    It appears these heavenly eyes** have further special powers that are yet to be clarified, but just what those could be about (is unknown)......

    Caption

    -The extreme clairvoyance of those heavenly eyes, gazing down upon past, present and future is the reason why they are feared as the strongest (tn: not 100% sure I got this one right).

    Picture comment

    -Perhaps because of the absolutely small numbers of people who have awakened to it, its powers are still a vast and unexplored territory.

    Konoha Thousand Leaves Collection #25

    Main text

    Not a lot of people got their hands onto Mangekyou Sharingan in the past, moreover it is said its awakening can only be achieved under certain circumstances. The peculiar condition for its unlocking... is to murder one's closest friend!! It was a taboo ability only those who chose the path of bloodshed could acquire.

    Caption

    -A causality drenched in blood

    Picture comment

    -Sacrificing his friend, Itachi obtained a forbidden power. What about Sasuke, exactly...?!
    I have underlined the most important part. Itachi with the most powerful doujutsu. Epic.

    Final blow:
    NINJUTSU; KEKKEI GENKAI; Tsukuyomi
    User: Uchiha Itachi
    Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none

    Main text

    Amidst the insight and hypnosis possessed by Sharingan, is a supreme genjutsu, born from the aforementioned hypnosis: Tsukuyomi. Originally, people on the face of the Earth live bound by limitations like time, gravity, and space; and how people exert their abilities within those restrictions is what separates the victors from the vanquished. But in the mental world where the caster drags their opponent, the Tsukuyomi jutsu gives them control over those very limitations!

    Namely, this means inside the genjutsu, the physical world's common sense is completely irrelevant and opposing the caster is impossible. Somebody caught into the Tsukuyomi find themselves into a strange world of infinity, their fate entirely lying inside the caster's hands. Some time, they will undergo the torments of Hell, and some other time, they will be repeatedly shown a horrendous, hellish picture of agony and mayhem*, with no idea of when either of those will end. As a result, the poor prisoner can only wait until the collapse of their psyches...!! Even a body made of iron or the speed of light are powerless before this jutsu, which is the reason why it is feared as the most powerful.

    Sharingan is the Kekkei Genkai of the clan labeled as the most powerful, the Uchiha clan. Even among those who have Sharingan, that jutsu cannot be operated without having Mangekyou, which is its culminating point. Concurrently, the only ones who can defeat Tsukuyomi are Sharingan possessors... And even then, exclusively the elite shinobi who have reached particularly high degrees of skillfulness. Once could say this is truly a God-given jutsu solely allowed to those blessed with Uchiha blood and prodigious aptitudes.
    Captions

    -An inner hell as eternal as Heaven and Earth. The grip held onto the principles of all creation thoroughly annihilates one's heart and soul!!

    -The ultimate doujutsu made possible only by Mangekyou Sharingan.

    Picture comments

    -The moment the adversary is exposed to Mangekyou Sharingan, a strange realm as they've never seen before extends before their eyes. In there, the world's principles themselves obey the caster's beck and call.

    -Since attacks in the spiritual realm have no power to physically wound or kill, it bestows an unfathomable amount of mental damage.

    -Only those of Uchiha blood... Does it mean only Sasuke has a chance to break a Tsukuyomi?

    -The phenomena that happen inside of the mental realm are entirely the caster's to command. Which is to say, the images shown or the actions taken can be changed according to the opponent in order to yield maximum efficiency.
    Pwnage. Only those with Mangekuy sharingan and who are elite uchihas can break this jutsu!

    Dont forget that Itachi killed half of the Uchiha alone. The strongest clan in one night. kickass...

    Last but no least:Naruto 404 page 16 | One Manga

    "With Itachi dead..." Madara. The ultimate villain. The man that even the fourth feared. The man who has won polls here in term of strength against powerfull oponents(jiraya,orochimaru) by a landside feared Itachi. Who?

    The king.
     
         

  3. #3
    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Credits to Sasori for this post! He explained very well the situation!

    Having all that being said i still think that Itachi could beat Jiraiya, Itachi oncee said and i dont remember what chapter "only someone with sharingan can beat sharingan" and that doesnt prove much but Kishi said that for a reason.
    So with the genjutsu cancelled out on both sides they need to rely on taijutsu and ninjutsu and plain smarts. Now Taijutsu, oh come on even with Jiraiya using sage mode itachi has a perfect taijutsu weapon and what could taht be?? Sharingan. Lee once proved to sasuke before the chunnin exams that even powers like sharingan pail in comparison to hard work or high speed taijutsu. Lee said that "even if yours eyes can see one step ahead of me if your body cant match its usless" well Itachi not only has a fully powered sharingan(which sasuke didnt come close at the time). Itachi has the body to keep up with high speed taijustu. Uchihas are said to be the warrior clan with exceptional chakras (stated by Tobi) so Itachi can keep up with most Taijutsu users. So even if Jiraiya is in sage mode Itachi can still see and keep up with his movements. And whose to say Sage mode jiraiyas taijutsu is unbeatable. Remember his fight with pain and when he first got in sage mode, Jiraiya tried going around in the smoke to hit the human realm and human realm stopped his punch with one hand (unless human realm has super streangth there has to be something to that)

    Now for Ninjutsu, both have incredble ninjustu. But again I fail to see how Jiraiya can beat Itachi in this catagory. Can Sage mode (Jiraiyas best Ninjutsu/Senjutsu) block Amaterasu or Sussano. Some had a post saying that Those are Itachis trumpcards and wouldnt use that in the beggining of the fight. Well isnt Sage Mode Jiraiyas Trump Card? We have only seen him using it once and still it failed. No physical attack can work on ITachi with the Yatas Mirror and He cant be blocked with the Sword of Tsokta (however its spelled) or Amaterasu. Jiraiya doesnt have the defensive capabillity to compare to those 2 sublime jutsus. But itachi has the defensice capabillity to fight against anyone (except maybe madara)

    So all in all this is what each has
    Itachi
    -Full Powered Sharingan
    -An uchiha body
    -Mangakyo Sharingan
    -Tsuklyomi, Amaterasu, and Sussano
    -Most powerful human Genjutsu user in the naruto universe
    -Speed so fast that even someone with Sharingan (sasuke and kakashi) couldnt see his moves
    -Younger generation always surpasses the older

    Jiraiya
    -Sage Mode
    -Huge rasengan
    -Toad Genjutsu/frog song
    -A lengendary sannin
    -More experiance
     
         
    Last edited by peaceful; 07-13-2009 at 06:30 PM.

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    Senior Member Nadare's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    i hope this is not spaming...but why was Itachi afraid of Jiraya, when he came to Konoha?

    i don't think Itachi could beat him so easily.....
     
         

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    RAWR. Bancie's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    I completely agree. It's a giant misconception in Naruto.

    Firstly, the Kyuubi is extremely difficult to overpower, and there's only been one person able to control it. But, after that person, the next most suitable person is Itachi, since he has MS and is the best (or equal to the best) Uchiha out there.

    SECOND, the Databook does say that Itachi and Jiraiya are equal in the total of all fields = 35.5, however, that data measures only Itachi's base self and jutsu, which doesn't include his Mangeyko Sharingan, which will give him a considerable power-up against Jiraiya's stats.

    i hope this is not spaming...but why was Itachi afraid of Jiraya, when he came to Konoha?

    i don't think Itachi could beat him so easily.....
    Itachi was not afraid of Jiraiya; I don't think Itachi is afraid of anybody, since he is proven to be the strongest character in Narutoverse (if his Mangekyo is factored in). However, I think Akatsuki's goal was not REALLY to capture Naruto at the time. It was just to keep a check on him. It's stated that the Kyuubi was planned to be the last bijuu to be captured (since it's the 9-tails), so I suppose Akatsuki decided to just check up on Naruto, especially since they didn't anticipate that he would become so powerful.

    Itachi always avoids violence, and I doubt he wanted to kill anybody or be forced into a fight, so he left Konoha when Jiraiya came. Besides, Itachi's own PERSONAL goal was probably to rekindle the fire in Sasuke to chase after him.
     
         
    Last edited by Bancie; 07-12-2009 at 11:57 AM.

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord GFX View Post
    i hope this is not spaming...but why was Itachi afraid of Jiraya, when he came to Konoha?

    i don't think Itachi could beat him so easily.....
    I have answerd inside the op. Read it again. Its in the first part of the first post...
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by peaceful View Post
    I have answerd inside the op. Read it again. Its in the first part of the first post...
    sorry....

    but i think that Itachi still couldn't catch J-man in Gebjutsu or Doujutsu-->Sage Mode
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    While I can't read the Japanese, I really don't think Itatchi was talking about being afraid of Naruto. Seriously: A. Naruto was like 12, and I have little doubt two genius shinobi would have done no research on him: they knew he wouldn't be that difficult of a host to capture. B. Itatchi has the ability to control the Kyubi, making it less threatening.

    My understanding of Itatchi's retreat: Itatchi told Kisame that while he could likely beat Jaraiya, with Kisame along, Kisame would either die, or it would be a draw. (Basically, he wouldn't be able to beat Jiraiya if he wanted to protect Kisame).

    Yes, Itatchi probably could beat Jiraiya, but you could make arguments that Jiraiya could beat Itatchi. I'm not going to make them, but I don't think it's as obviously one-sided as you seem to be implying it is.
     
         

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord GFX View Post
    sorry....

    but i think that Itachi still couldn't catch J-man in Gebjutsu or Doujutsu-->Sage Mode
    This is not the point. People use the fact that argument that Itachi retread as a sign of Jirayas superiority. I just proved it wrong. What you say is another matter i prove wrong later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastlikesnail View Post
    While I can't read the Japanese, I really don't think Itatchi was talking about being afraid of Naruto. Seriously: A. Naruto was like 12, and I have little doubt two genius shinobi would have done no research on him: they knew he wouldn't be that difficult of a host to capture. B. Itatchi has the ability to control the Kyubi, making it less threatening.

    My understanding of Itatchi's retreat: Itatchi told Kisame that while he could likely beat Jaraiya, with Kisame along, Kisame would either die, or it would be a draw. (Basically, he wouldn't be able to beat Jiraiya if he wanted to protect Kisame).

    Yes, Itatchi probably could beat Jiraiya, but you could make arguments that Jiraiya could beat Itatchi. I'm not going to make them, but I don't think it's as obviously one-sided as you seem to be implying it is.
    You dont, these people can. Also it is obvious you havent read the op well. Itachi has used twice tsukuyomi and once amaterasu. He was exhausted. He admitted it. That is the reason they escaped. Also they had no knowledge of kuybis naruto power. They were afraid of the fox but as long as Itachi was there Kisame wasnt afraid. But when Itachi admited exhaustion they retreated...
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastlikesnail View Post
    While I can't read the Japanese, I really don't think Itatchi was talking about being afraid of Naruto. Seriously: A. Naruto was like 12, and I have little doubt two genius shinobi would have done no research on him: they knew he wouldn't be that difficult of a host to capture. B. Itatchi has the ability to control the Kyubi, making it less threatening.

    My understanding of Itatchi's retreat: Itatchi told Kisame that while he could likely beat Jaraiya, with Kisame along, Kisame would either die, or it would be a draw. (Basically, he wouldn't be able to beat Jiraiya if he wanted to protect Kisame).

    Yes, Itatchi probably could beat Jiraiya, but you could make arguments that Jiraiya could beat Itatchi. I'm not going to make them, but I don't think it's as obviously one-sided as you seem to be implying it is.


    of course they were not. Do you remember how they cacthed Naruto adn wanted to cut off his leg so that he doesnt run away? I doubt they could do it if they were so much afraid of Naruto..


    The second thing is that yeah, Itachi was stronger than Jiraya, and even if he reffered to Jiraya as to someone who would kill both him and Kisame, he could do it because he was an ally of KOnoha.


    And one more thing, OP hasnt analysed the pwoers of Jiraya, this whole thread was made just to show Itachi's powers and quotes from Wikipedia. Of course he is pwoerful and kicks ass. And also, there is no evidence that Itachi can mirror the Sennin genjutsu, in fact, it is not a real genjutsu and how will eyes mirror sound? This is jsut not possible to deflect sound with eyes ;/ This is not Jiraya's genjutsu, this is not Illusion genjutsu, this is not doujutsu genjutsu. This is a Sennin genjutsu, which is a whole new level.
    So if JIraya menages to use the frog Song, Itachi without Susano'o is ****ed.
     
         

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post
    of course they were not. Do you remember how they cacthed Naruto adn wanted to cut off his leg so that he doesnt run away? I doubt they could do it if they were so much afraid of Naruto..


    The second thing is that yeah, Itachi was stronger than Jiraya, and even if he reffered to Jiraya as to someone who would kill both him and Kisame, he could do it because he was an ally of KOnoha.


    And one more thing, OP hasnt analysed the pwoers of Jiraya, this whole thread was made just to show Itachi's powers and quotes from Wikipedia. Of course he is pwoerful and kicks ass. And also, there is no evidence that Itachi can mirror the Sennin genjutsu, in fact, it is not a real genjutsu and how will eyes mirror sound? This is jsut not possible to deflect sound with eyes ;/ This is not Jiraya's genjutsu, this is not Illusion genjutsu, this is not doujutsu genjutsu. This is a Sennin genjutsu, which is a whole new level.
    So if JIraya menages to use the frog Song, Itachi without Susano'o is ****ed.
    One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else.
    this answers your quetion about the toad song...

    And Kisame was not afraid of Naruto because Itachi was there with mangekuy. Something you would have known have you read the op and the translation. But it is obvious you did not. Also i have not explained Jirayas power because every 3 days they keep popping out.

    and i did not use wikipedia.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    No one's afraid of 12-yr old Naruto. But they're afraid of the 9-tailed beast sealed inside him, yeah.

    Itachi can beat Jiraiya in the end (with some difficulty), OR that it would be a draw. Itachi's genjutsu is powerful, and once Jiraiya is trapped in it, I doubt he can escape.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bancie View Post
    No one's afraid of 12-yr old Naruto. But they're afraid of the 9-tailed beast sealed inside him, yeah.

    Itachi can beat Jiraiya in the end (with some difficulty), OR that it would be a draw. Itachi's genjutsu is powerful, and once Jiraiya is trapped in it, I doubt he can escape.
    Exactly. They were not afraid of Naruto.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by peaceful View Post
    This is not the point. People use the fact that argument that Itachi retread as a sign of Jirayas superiority. I just proved it wrong. What you say is another matter i prove wrong later.



    You dont, these people can. Also it is obvious you havent read the op well. Itachi has used twice tsukuyomi and once amaterasu. He was exhausted. He admitted it. That is the reason they escaped. Also they had no knowledge of kuybis naruto power. They were afraid of the fox but as long as Itachi was there Kisame wasnt afraid. But when Itachi admited exhaustion they retreated...
    And I don't care if these people can read Japanese, I'm sure lots of people who read it as Itatchi and Kisame being afraid of Jiraiya also read Japanese. The idea that two incredibly powerful shinobi, one with some abilities to control the Kyubi, would be afraid of 13 year old Naruto is just silly. Overall, I agree with you for the most part, Itatchi was stronger than Jiraiya, however, arguing that Itatchi, (or even Kisame for that matter) was worried about Naruto seems plain wrong.

    Also, don't use the word proof when you're talking about this post. You can't really prove anything by citing abilities and skills. You can make convincing arguments, but not "prove" anything.
     
         
    Last edited by Fastlikesnail; 07-12-2009 at 12:20 PM.

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    They were afraid of the fox but as long as Itachi was there Kisame wasnt afraid. But when Itachi admited exhaustion they retreated...
    Good observation.

    I'm sure lots of people who read it as Itatchi and Kisame being afraid of Jiraiya also read Japanese.
    There wasn't a direct statement like, "I"m afraid of Jiraiya." :/ It was a dialogue in which pronouns were used and all. The translations are correct, but people misunderstand the translated dialogue. That's why it's a misconception.

    The idea that two incredibly powerful shinobi, one with some abilities to control the Kyubi, would be afraid of 13 year old Naruto is just silly.
    Agreed, but, the Kyuubi that's sealed INSIDE said 13-year old pretty much can wipe out both of them.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    They were afraid of Kyyubi and that's why they decided to cut of Naruto's leg and attack him in the closed area? Whereas it's obvious that this cut off leg action will awaken fox's power? :o it doesn't make sense at all.

    That's like saying: Hmm if we face him, we'll both die. ah let's go and cut off his leg so he wont run away!


    and no I read the translations, but my opinion is not biased and I have no itnention of forcing everyone believe what I want unlike some others :o

    Also I havent seen that Mirro rgen jutsu in action. Also, who said that Sennin tech's are at the same leve. Thirdly, the genjutsu doesn't confuse, it just sends sound waves that paralyse enemy's body.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bancie View Post
    There wasn't a direct statement like, "I"m afraid of Jiraiya." :/ It was a dialogue in which pronouns were used and all. The translations are correct, but people misunderstand the translated dialogue. That's why it's a misconception.
    It's all in how you read the pronouns then. To me it makes more sense that they would be talking about Jiraiya, even if Itatchi was only pretending to be worried because he was Konoha's ally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bancie View Post

    Agreed, but, the Kyuubi that's sealed INSIDE said 13-year old pretty much can wipe out both of them.
    The Kyubi was sealed pretty tightly at that point, even a tired Itatchi would no doubt be able to dismiss a four-tailed Naruto. I don't think they were worried about Naruto or his Kyubii. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would be.
     
         

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    They were afraid of Kyyubi and that's why they decided to cut of Naruto's leg and attack him in the closed area? Whereas it's obvious that this cut off leg action will awaken fox's power? it doesn't make sense at all.
    Nawwww. If they had cut off his leg, idk if it would awaken the fox. Kyuubi only awakens when Naruto is really REALLY emotional/willful, it's not based off his physical state.


    The Kyubi was sealed pretty tightly at that point, even a tired Itatchi would no doubt be able to dismiss a four-tailed Naruto. I don't think they were worried about Naruto or his Kyubii. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would be.
    Possibly. But maybe they didn't know that. Kisame was pretty intrigued with the kyuubi's chakra when it showed.
     
         
    Last edited by Bancie; 07-12-2009 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Nice thread but i still dont know.
    Itachi being afraid of Naruto instead of Jiraiya is very unlikely to me.
    When naruto started leaking the fox chackra, kisame just absorbed it with his sword (forget the name), so there was no reason to be scared of Naruto.
    Second, i wonder if Itachi would really be able to stand a chance against sage mode Jiraiya, you say Itachi has him on speed, but sage mode also makes you a hell of allot faster, so i would say things would be pretty evened out in the speed department.
    Last, Jiraiya's frog genjutsu,
    Here i also wonder if Itachi would be able to counter it.
    As far as i understand it requires sage chakra to even perform the jutsu and since Itachi doesnt know how to use it, i highly doubt he would be able to copy it, let alone counter.

    I guess it all depends on who goes allout first.
    And it's becuz of this that i say Jiraiya would win.
    Jiraiya isnt the type of shinobi that plays around b4 getting serious, where as Itachi is more likely to do so, becuz of the arrogance that comes with having something as powerfull as the sharingan.

    Yes, if itachi uses Sasuno'o Jiraiya is a dead man walking, same thing with Amateratsu, but since these are itachi's trumph cards, i dont think he would get around to use them, when Jiraiya goes all out right from the start, something that he would have deffinatly done against someone as powerfull as Itachi.

    So all in all, i'd still give it to Jiraiya.
     
         

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    uchiha forever peaceful's Avatar
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    Re: I kept silent. Not anymore. Itachi is greater than Jiraya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastlikesnail View Post
    And I don't care if these people can read Japanese, I'm sure lots of people who read it as Itatchi and Kisame being afraid of Jiraiya also read Japanese. The idea that two incredibly powerful shinobi, one with some abilities to control the Kyubi, would be afraid of 13 year old Naruto is just silly. Overall, I agree with you for the most part, Itatchi was stronger than Jiraiya, however, arguing that Itatchi, (or even Kisame for that matter) was worried about Naruto seems plain wrong.

    Also, don't use the word proof when you're talking about this post. You can't really prove anything by citing abilities and skills. You can make convincing arguments, but not "prove" anything.
    They were afraid of Kuybi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Curtain Messiah View Post
    They were afraid of Kyyubi and that's why they decided to cut of Naruto's leg and attack him in the closed area? Whereas it's obvious that this cut off leg action will awaken fox's power? :o it doesn't make sense at all.

    That's like saying: Hmm if we face him, we'll both die. ah let's go and cut off his leg so he wont run away!


    and no I read the translations, but my opinion is not biased and I have no itnention of forcing everyone believe what I want unlike some others :o

    Also I havent seen that Mirro rgen jutsu in action. Also, who said that Sennin tech's are at the same leve. Thirdly, the genjutsu doesn't confuse, it just sends sound waves that paralyse enemy's body.
    Such a nice personal attack that make the curtain feel smart. What a shame humuliating yourself. You cannot read or you cannot undertand. They were afraid of Naruto. But because Itachi had mangekuy they decided that they could hadle the fox. But Itachi admited exhaustion. So they retreated because itachi would not have been able to tame the fox.
     
         

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