Kishimoto the Great fails.....

[shanee]

whenever -logic- posts on a thread, the thread ends there. hahaha

[orangenucklehead]

Madara and Izuna
Obito and Shisui
Itachi and Sasuke.
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6!

you obviously need this http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi

[KyuubiUzumaki]

Your allusion to tsukuyomi - as if everyone has it is beyond wrong. What you have done is essentially made the whole clan as strong as it's strongest member. So if everyone in the Senju was as strong as hashirama and Tobirama...

[LordRevan]

whenever -logic- posts on a thread, the thread ends there. hahaha

wasn't his post like the first post or the second?? lmao.. supporting trolls now aye.

[bigboi]

A Fail: "Every justu has a weakness." What about Rinne Tensei?

well rinne tensei according to what happened to nagato your either die or it uses a lot of chakra or it can be only used once

[NULL SNIPER]

lol if tsukuyomi was so unbeatable, how come Madara couldnt defeat Hashirama? Someone make a decent thread for once...

[Rozzy]

No Senju's kick-ass

[ninjasrb2]

I don't get it why do people try so hard to find a flaw in kishi. Im pretty sure the dude knows how to write his own stuff brah, he can make up anything he wants to go with the story so he can easily make a so called fail turn into a win just by telling the stuff in the next chapter like he always have. I don't get how can people say that he fail if the story isn't even firkin done yet? http://www.ideachampions.com/weblogs/Confused.jpg

[Kinimaster]

Why do you assume Madara has Tsukuomi? And why you assume every MS genjutsu its like Itachi's Tsukuyomi?

[MasterMedicNin]

Okay.

Facts:
Yes Tsukuyomi is unbreakable by most. (Excluding the Jinchuuriki)
Yes it is the strongest form of Genjutsu.
Yes it is strictly a Mangekyō Sharingan technique.
and Yes you need BOTH Amatarasu&Tsukuyomi to use Susanoo so therefore Itachi, Madara AND Sasuke all have Tsukuyomi
However, Itachi stated that Tsukuyomi can only be broken by a Sharingan user that shares the same blood as him; as demonstrated when Sasuke overcame Itachi's Tsukuyomi in their battle.
Proof
-Susanoo, also known as the Tempestuous God of Valour (勇武の荒神, Yūbu no Aragami), is the third ability granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan to those who awaken the abilities: Tsukuyomi — which symbolises the "darkness of the spiritual world" and Amaterasu — which denotes the "light of the material world"
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Susanoo

-Sasuke can also perform Tsukuyomi with his right eye, though his illusion is considered inferior to Itachi's Tsukuyomi since it does not alter the opponent's perception of time indicating he has yet to master it.[4]
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi

Now that we know that Three ninja (Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara) have aquired Susanno at some point they are all assumed to have Tsukuyomi!

However, Tsukuyomi is by no means flawed.
-First, the Jinchuuriki are able to break its hold as demonstrated by Killer Bee in his fight against Sasuke.
-Second, anyone of the same blood (i.e. Uchiha) can break its hold even with a 3 Tome Sharingan as its how the Ninja use their tools&not how powerful that tool is.
-Third, its been proven that you can complete avoid Tsukuyomi by simply not looking into the Mangekyō Sharingan as proven by Kakashi&Gai. (with proficient users like Itachi having the ability to use it with simply his finger.)
-Fourth, Not every Uchiha will awaken their Mangekyō Sharingan.
-& Fifth, Using Tsukuyomi uses incredible amounts of chakra and causes strain on the Mangekyō Sharingan causing the users eyesight to deteriorate. This is a MAJOR weakness in the Mangekyō Sharingan. Eventually the user will be unable to even use the technique any further unless they have recieved their Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan (which in itself is a feat to be conqured.)

Im done.

[Unatural]

Senju Dna+Logia+Ems=Imortal

[SplittingAtoms]

Only two, maybe 3 Uchihas out of the ENTIRE clan have Tsukuyomi; Itachi/Sasuke/Madara.

And out of ONE of those THREE, only Itachi's Tsukuyomi is unbreakable, except for Uchihas and Sharingan users who are Uchihas.

And then to go on to say the Uchiha > Senju based on one Jutsu which can be avoided by simply looking down is extremely shallow.

You are the great fail here, not Kishimoto.

Actually none of us knows just how good Madara is with genjutsu, he might easily surpass the masters like Itachi and Shisui but just so far chose use his other abilities, which seem to be quite numerous.

He is after all Madara the ghost of Uchiha and is quite proud of his strength.

[The God]

Everyone is talking like Tsukyomi has to be the same genjutsu for every uchiha like it is with Itachi WRONG!!

Itachi is the only one able to manipulate time with his Genjutsu PERIOD!! He does it with his finger on naruto this is NOT tsukyomi but a standard genjutsu which doesnt last 3 days its just tsukyomi is the strongest genjutsu for Uchihas hence itachis genjutsu can max out and control upto 3days in a second with his MS!!!!

Shisuis stongest genjutsu with MS just so happens to be called a diff name but its a genjutsu none the less

The point is every uchiha with MS gets some kind of powered up genjutsu from the norm

Sasukes powered up genjutsu is the paralysis one that theyre probably gna say is impossible to break out of on your own
Madaras may be the same as this we've seen him do it on Raikage

The overall jist of it is itachi could manipulate time in a genjutsu without MS so this ability is probably only unique to him just like shisuis was unique to him

but tskuyomi is obviously not needed for susanoo and if it is it prolly doesnt mean tht this particular genjutsu always works in the way itachi used it

[The God]

Okay.

Facts:
Yes Tsukuyomi is unbreakable by most. (Excluding the Jinchuuriki)
Yes it is the strongest form of Genjutsu.
Yes it is strictly a Mangekyō Sharingan technique.
and Yes you need BOTH Amatarasu&Tsukuyomi to use Susanoo so therefore Itachi, Madara AND Sasuke all have Tsukuyomi
However, Itachi stated that Tsukuyomi can only be broken by a Sharingan user that shares the same blood as him; as demonstrated when Sasuke overcame Itachi's Tsukuyomi in their battle.
Proof
-Susanoo, also known as the Tempestuous God of Valour (勇武の荒神, Yūbu no Aragami), is the third ability granted by the Mangekyō Sharingan to those who awaken the abilities: Tsukuyomi — which symbolises the "darkness of the spiritual world" and Amaterasu — which denotes the "light of the material world"
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Susanoo

-Sasuke can also perform Tsukuyomi with his right eye, though his illusion is considered inferior to Itachi's Tsukuyomi since it does not alter the opponent's perception of time indicating he has yet to master it.[4]
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Tsukuyomi

Now that we know that Three ninja (Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara) have aquired Susanno at some point they are all assumed to have Tsukuyomi!

However, Tsukuyomi is by no means flawed.
-First, the Jinchuuriki are able to break its hold as demonstrated by Killer Bee in his fight against Sasuke.
-Second, anyone of the same blood (i.e. Uchiha) can break its hold even with a 3 Tome Sharingan as its how the Ninja use their tools¬ how powerful that tool is.
-Third, its been proven that you can complete avoid Tsukuyomi by simply not looking into the Mangekyō Sharingan as proven by Kakashi&Gai. (with proficient users like Itachi having the ability to use it with simply his finger.)
-Fourth, Not every Uchiha will awaken their Mangekyō Sharingan.
-& Fifth, Using Tsukuyomi uses incredible amounts of chakra and causes strain on the Mangekyō Sharingan causing the users eyesight to deteriorate. This is a MAJOR weakness in the Mangekyō Sharingan. Eventually the user will be unable to even use the technique any further unless they have recieved their Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan (which in itself is a feat to be conqured.)

Im done.

just to clear things up when itachi used his finger on naruto to catch him in a genjutsu he was not using his MS he stated in this fight he couldnt use his MS (maybe because he wasnt in his own complete form)

[Digitalritual]

no...senju in general are still stronger IMO....

Awesome avatar ItachiTsukuAmatsukami! Very nice

[Priyam Bhowmick]

Kishi had said Uchiha nd Senju were the strongest. Honestly its no clan bt the person. Hashi was the strongest, next was Tobirama nd Tsunade. Uchihas r gifted with strong ninjas like Madara, Izuna, Obito, Itachi, Sisui etc. To me Uchihas r more gifted nd stronger in force.

[ESPADA NELIEL]

Kishimoto has done a excellent job in the series.. BUT the thing where he has ****ed up/screwed up is.. Genjutsu. Let me explain for example, we tsukuyomi a genjutsu that can only be broken by another Uchiha or a Jinchuriki. Basically what that means is everyone else besides the Uchiha or the Jinchuriki... is screwed. So with taking that into consideration when Kishimoto alludes to the Senju as the strongest clan.. its a fail why? Because Uchiha has tsukuyomi. Now this has allowed me to change my mind on the whole Naruto series and I now declare the Uchiha as the Strongest Clan to exist in this series.

He has made moves that have 10-0% counters.

what are you talking about, senju's are stronger they have good chackra control to break free from an illusion and where was it stated that if your not an uchiha or jinjurikis you cant break free from illusions. haven't you seen other persons breaking free from the sharigan illusions, that are not uchihas nor jinjurikis. what manga are you reading

[zesto]

what are you talking about, senju's are stronger they have good chackra control to break free from an illusion and where was it stated that if your not an uchiha or jinjurikis you cant break free from illusions. haven't you seen other persons breaking free from the sharigan illusions, that are not uchihas nor jinjurikis. what manga are you reading

This^

[DeadManWonderLand]

Kishimoto has done a excellent job in the series.. BUT the thing where he has ****ed up/screwed up is.. Genjutsu. Let me explain for example, we tsukuyomi a genjutsu that can only be broken by another Uchiha or a Jinchuriki. Basically what that means is everyone else besides the Uchiha or the Jinchuriki... is screwed. So with taking that into consideration when Kishimoto alludes to the Senju as the strongest clan.. its a fail why? Because Uchiha has tsukuyomi. Now this has allowed me to change my mind on the whole Naruto series and I now declare the Uchiha as the Strongest Clan to exist in this series.

He has made moves that have 10-0% counters.

The Senju clan has the body of the sage which lends them great vitality and psychical engery and gained their fame in the era before the founding of the hidden villages. Where other clans focused on mastering one particular skill, the Senju were masters in all skills, from ninjutsu, to taijutsu, to GENJUSTU. Because of this, they were feared as "the clan with a thousand skills"Senju like jinchuuriki would also have a initial front line defense against there genjustu through the endurance of there psychical energy and knowledge of genjustu themselves you must know stuff about a clan if you are going to try and determine how powerful they are or you end up looking like a fan boy not that i doubt you aren't one kishi said they were equal so deal with it the uchiha are not more powerful then the senju simply because you fail to overlook their abilities.

[King Hashirama]

I think the key lies in this



We haven't seen many 1v1 (i.e with the non-Uchiha not having a parter) Uchiha vs non-Uchiha battles

The Uchiha know this genjutsu counter and dont waste chakra on a move that they know will be countered unless...




When the non-Uchihas partner is distracted the Genjutsu is used and highly effective

[kekerot]

A Fail: "Every justu has a weakness." What about Rinne Tensei?

Rinne Tenseis weakness is.................*****slap :D

[narutownsyouall]

Hashirama>Madara Uchiha.

[zombiejesus]

i personally believe he is tired of this series and wants it stop or is now in it for just the money i man look at it from the start of the wasr arc it is getting dumber and dumber and boring too. look at bleach right now it is totally sick house compared to naruto right now man. naruto used to be my favorite then bleach then one piece but now it is BLEACH one piece than naruto if i havr time for it i havent even been on this site for like a month and a half until this past wednesday

[Doublevanv]

You're basing this off of assumptions. How many times have we seen tsukuyomi that was NOT used by Itachi? I'd say around 4 or 5 times by sasuke. You can avoid tsukuyomi by simply looking down, with the exception of Itachi. If we go by what we've seen and read and not just assuming, It's still Senju > Uchiha. If Tsukuyomi was this unbeatable jutsu like you claim it is, Madara wouldn't have lost to Hashi. And it isn't like the few Uchiha who did have Tsukuyomi could sit there and spam it.