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  1. #1
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Ok, so I was originally going to post this on my other thread about Madara's weapons but the more I looked into it, the more it seemed as if this topic deserved it's own thread.

    The similarities are not that consistent, but Kishi seems to have taken snippets of Iga/Kouga attributes and incorporated them into the story of the Senjuu and Uchiha.

    Off we go...

    How the clans became famous
    I don't know if many of you are interested in Japanese history, but Iga Ryu (伊賀流) and Kouga Ryu (甲賀流) were two very prominent and very real ninja clans that did basically what our good old Narutoverse villages do in the manga.

    They sent their shinobi on missions provided by contractors and got paid in return. Each village had their loyalties (which always resided with the highest bidder as well as depending on their location) and were effectively used by daimyos (Japanese feudal lords) around the 15th and 16th centuries.

    The Kouga, much like the Uchiha, gained their reputation through a gruesome 3 year long battle against the Ashikaga shogunate. The battle officially ended in 1489. Their reputation caught up to that of the Iga clan shortly after.

    The Iga were already a well known clan.

    It sounds very much like the story told by Tobi. Years of gruelling war that eventually brought the Uchiha recognition and got them on the same tier as the Iga/Senjuu.


    The attributes of the Kouga and the Uchiha
    The Kouga actually became famous for their fire attacks and use of genjutsu.

    Yes, genjutsu is an actual martial arts practice.
    It's basically mindf*cking the enemy. It can be anything from surprise attacks to wearing a Hannya mask and launching an attack yelling BAMBOLEYOOO BAMBOLEYA whilst doing the helicopter with your willy.

    The reason the Kouga were known for their fire attacks is because they kept launching them against the Ashikaga army during their war. It's got nothing to do with breathing giant fireballs, it's just that they were adamant on setting the enemy camps on fire at night. Those sneaky Kougas...

    So...
    Katon and genjutsu anyone? Catch the similarity?


    The Kouga, genjutsu and doujutsu
    According to legend, the founder of Kouga Ryuu, Oni no Kami Iechika (鬼の神家親), was trained by a buddhist monk named Tatsumaki Hoshi (竜巻星) on the arts of genjutsu and doujutsu. Again, actual practices. Not the Narutoverse kind.

    I've briefly explained what genjutsu is above, it's just mindf*cking tricks of all sorts.

    Well, doujutsu is real too. As real as it can be.

    Even Miyamoto Musashi (宮本 武蔵) refers to doujutsu in Go Rin no Sho (五輪書) which is known in English as The Book of Five Rings.
    The actual practice of doujutsu was meant to unnerve the enemy solely by ones unrelenting posture and fierce eyes.
    You have to crush your opponent mentally before starting the battle by making sure that they fear you. That is the essence of actual doujutsu.

    The founder of the Kouga having genjutsu and doujutsu skills, does it ring any bells?


    The Iga and Kouga joined forces
    The remaining Kouga nin joined forces with the Iga nin after their 3 year long war with the Ashikaga Shogunate. They decided to coexist and live as one big happy ninja village.

    Hmm... Konoha?


    The Iga Clan was basically wiped out
    I'm going to jump to the Uzumaki clan here. As I said, the progression has some similarities but Kishi has tossed things around a little.

    Later along the line in history, around the 1580s, the Iga clan (with the Kouga nin amongst them) was wiped out due to their immense power. Actual shogunates feared the ninja clan and a massive army lead by Oda Nobunaga (織田 信長) hunted them all down.
    Nobunaga went to war with 60 thousand men, which means that he held about a twenty to one advantage against the Iga nin.

    The remaining few scattered around the prefecture and disguised themselves.

    It sounds very similar to what happened to the Uzumaki clan, doesn't it?


    The Iga + Kouga were given the duties of policemen
    After the death of Oda Nobunaga, the remaining shinobi were given posts as Edo palace guards and policemen.
    Tokugawa Ieyasu (徳川 家康) who had became a shogun in the turmoil after Nobunaga's death had been advised by Hattori Hanzo (服部 半蔵) to hire the remaning Iga and Kouga nin for the duties.

    Although in Narutoverse only the Uchiha made up the police force, the similarity is undeniable.


    Guess what? The policemen and palace guards were a part of a coup d'état
    The ex nin that were placed as palace guards and policemen rebelled due to harsh treatment. In 1606, they got affiliated with the enemies of the shogun and after being found out, were reprimended harshly.

    There you go, the Uchiha's coup d'état!


    Last, but not least, the Narutoverse map.
    The map of Narutoverse and the locations of the villages bear a striking resemblence to the part of Japan where the Mie Prefecture (三重県) and Shiga Prefecture (滋賀県) are, the Kansai area (関西).
    Mie prefecture was the home of the Iga and Shiga was the home of the Kouga, where ninjutsu was literally born.

    This map of Narutoverse is from another thread of mine dating back a year or two. You can clearly see the countries and villages here.

    Here is a map of the Kansai area. Mie and Shiga are located at the bottom right corner.

    And here, if you get the resemblance, smack in the middle of the red box is where the long lost Iga province (伊賀国) was. Right where Konohagakure is in the Narutoverse map.

    See the similarity?


    Oh, almost forgot! Jounin, Chuunin and Genin!
    The Iga Ryuu were the first to divide their shinobi into classes.
    From high ranking to low; jounin, chuunin and genin!

    Konoha was the first ninja village, so... First to rank their ninja?


    Again, thanks for reading!
     
         
    Last edited by Kirin Rei; 10-06-2012 at 03:23 AM. Reason: Additional info, yay!

  2. #2
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga



    No.
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member Unatural's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Quote Originally Posted by F A T A L I T Y View Post


    No.
    LOL
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Good effort. It's really cool and I think I agree because Kishi has gotten lots of his stuff from other animes and from Japanese stories.
     
         

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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    F A T A L I T Y Is that all you post xD?
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Very interesting thread. Thx for posting.
     
         

  7. #7
    Academy Student sharigon demon33's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    senju and uchiha are practiclly the same clan except for the hate for each other
     
         

  8. #8
    # KnullaMångaTräd -Carnage-'s Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    i love you man/woman? you make the most logical threads, they're actually interesting...

    EDIT: sorry bro i clicked on the dislike button by accident
     
         

  9. #9
    ラフォーレ Lindow's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Excellent thread.
     
         

  10. #10
    Senior Member uchihamad's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    I wanted to ask u something Does real ninjas form hand-seals
     
         

  11. #11
    Senior Member theRPGdude's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    I noticed you have a Okamiden icon. I never loved you more.
     
         

  12. #12
    The Blade's Shadow FinalBoss's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    This was pretty interesting
     
         

  13. #13
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Thanks guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by ItachiTsukuAmatsukami View Post
    i love you man/woman? you make the most logical threads, they're actually interesting...

    EDIT: sorry bro i clicked on the dislike button by accident
    Hahaha it's perfectly fine.

    Ps: Woman.
    Quote Originally Posted by uchihamad View Post
    I wanted to ask u something Does real ninjas form hand-seals
    Actually yes, they used to. But it had nothing to do with ''jutsus''.

    Hand seals really do exist. They're supposed to have a Taoist origin but they are also used in mikkyou (密教) and shugendou (修験道) in Japan. To be simpler, they are a part of Buddhist beliefs.

    They're actually called kujiin (九字印), which translates to nine hand seals.

    They were only used by shinobi for religious purposes. They're meant to be hand positions that accompany mantras that you chant.

    For example; if you're a Christian you clasp your hands together while saying ''amen'', or if you're a Muslim you turn your palms towards the sky while chanting a prayer. These hand seals were supposed to have a similar purpose.

    It was the anime/manga influence and the Westerners sudden attention to ninjas that got the whole ninjutsu and hand seals stuff out of context.

    Quote Originally Posted by theRPGdude View Post
    I noticed you have a Okamiden icon. I never loved you more.
    Amaterasu!
     
         
    Last edited by Kirin Rei; 10-06-2012 at 04:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Assassin Y3llovv fla5h's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Hmm interesting....
     
         

  15. #15
    Eishi is watching you Eishi's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    There is a seinen manga telling a story between Kouga and Iga. Go search "Basilisk"

    Anyway, this is not a new research. Kishi used to confirm that he also build the manga based on the historical events of the Iga and Kouga ninja clans
     
         
    Last edited by Eishi; 10-06-2012 at 07:56 AM.

  16. #16
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Quote Originally Posted by Eishi View Post
    There is a seinen manga telling a story between Kouga and Iga. Go search "Basilisk"
    Yup, I've read it all.

    The story was actually based on a novel named Kouga Ninpocho. There are a couple of manga depicting the same story. I'm an avid fan of every single one of them.
     
         

  17. #17
    In detention The God of Wind's Avatar
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    Re: The similarities between Senjuu - Uchiha and Iga - Kouga

    Japanese history sure is interesting.
     
         

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