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  1. #1
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    Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    So, I'll just cut to the case.

    It's stated by Itachi (albeit in a weird manner) that in order to awaken MS, a Sharingan wielder must kill the ones closest to him.

    Let's make a list of the known MS wielders.

    Danzō Shimura - Stole Shisui's Sharingan, already in MS state
    Itachi Uchiha - Killed the whole clan
    Izuna Uchiha - Might have killed someone, not out of the question
    Madara Uchiha - Obviously a man that would do many things for power
    Obito Uchiha - ?
    Hatake Kakashi - Still not 100% certain but probably killed Rin
    Sasuke Uchiha - Found out the truth about Itachi right after causing his death
    Shisui Uchiha - Not enough info on him but he was most probably a part of Root, hence, killed his friend

    I feel like I have to elaborate on Shisui being a part of Root.
    Although it's not 100% certain, there are a couple of indicators.
    First of all, his affiliation with Danzo is kind of sketchy.
    I have reason to believe that he gave his eye willingly. Otherwise how could Danzo just snatch it out of it's locket and stop at only one? Why not just kill Shisui and have both?
    Besides, his mantra is pretty much the same as Root and Danzo's. The mantra Itachi said that he learned from Shisui.
    Self sacrifice... A nameless shinobi who protects peace from within it's shadow... That is a true shinobi.






    Although it's not identical, the whole reason the Root and Danzo existed was this mantra. They did the dirty work, protected the village from within the shadows and sacrificed themselves so others could live.

    Meh, anyways.

    At first I thought Kakashi awakening his MS was just an anomality.
    Maybe he awakened it because he already underwent such emotional trauma, losing both of his teammates and Minato. Maybe he blamed himself for the death of Obito, so that counted as ''killing a friend'' or maybe just because he was an outsider with a Sharingan, regular MS laws didn't apply to him...

    But after the latest issues, seeing that he probably killed (or caused the death of) Rin, I'm leaning towards believing that what Itachi said was actually true.
    You had to kill a friend.

    So, this brings up the question. How did Obito gain his MS? He still has his original Sharingan, the pattern is the same as Kakashi's. Which means he awakened it.

    There are two possibilities I can think of.

    One; he awakened it because he had a shared vision with Kakashi when Rin died. He might have felt that he killed Rin, due to seeing it from Kakashi's viewpoint. Which would be a plot hax and very implausible if you ask me...

    Two; he killed a friend.

    I'm leaning towards the second option.

    Madara had already planned pretty much everything out. He had given his eyes to Nagato, which means that everything was set.






    He had no reason to live in his weakened state anymore. Him encountering Obito was probably just a pleasent coincidence (for Madara) and he tweaked his plan accoding to it.

    So, under Obito's circumstances, he seems as if he has no one else to befriend other than Madara at the moment. Besides, he owes him his life and Madara's been treating him pretty well up until now.

    Seeing that Madara actually ended up entrusting his whole plan to Obito, it would mean that he would want him to become stronger.
    Madara already stated that he couldn't live unless he was plugged into the Mazou.

    So, all he would have to do would be to pull a Dumbledore.

    Let Snape/Obito kill him while he was already going to die and bestow him the Elder Wand/MS.

    Anyways, long story short; I theorize that Obito killed Madara thus unlocked his MS.

    Cheers! Thanks for reading!
     
         
    Last edited by Kirin Rei; 10-06-2012 at 07:39 AM. Reason: Typos... Typos everywhere.

  2. #2
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    He awaked the MS when rin died
     
         

  3. #3
    Senior Member theRPGdude's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    I love your icon. Hold on Okamiden is to awesome. I'll say this first and edit my post later once I finshed reading.He whole Danzo and shi shi thing was very impressive. Not sire if it deals with related figures but it's worth a shot. I love this thread. You make a lot of good ones. Hope to see more. And my take on this. I can't agree with you fully. Wait and see the next chapter.
     
         
    Last edited by theRPGdude; 10-06-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    + rep unlike the many people on here you lay out details and provide examples and do not act like what you think is a certainty.
    I agree with most of the thread and esp on shisui being in root i am not sure on him willingly giving danzo his eye but you do bring up a good point.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    I think Obito awaken his Shanringan seeing the death of Rin (the first option). And |LOL| about the Dumbledore part.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    I cant say who did obito killed and what happened and how it happened
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Wow.. I actually like your theory and it makes perfect sense. It would also be a curve ball that would've been hard to predict.
    + Rep. Great thread
     
         

  8. #8
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katkot View Post
    He awaked the MS when rin died
    Proof?
    It might as well be so, but you can't go around stating it as a fact untill it's proven to be right by the manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by theRPGdude View Post
    I love your icon. Hold on Okamiden is to awesome. I'll say this first and edit my post later once I finshed reading.He whole Danzo and shi shi thing was very impressive. Not sire if it deals with related figures but it's worth a shot. I love this thread. You make a lot of good ones. Hope to see more. And my take on this. I can't agree with you fully. Wait and see the next chapter.
    Hahaha, thanks!
    Well, I'm not entirely sure either, but I think it's plausible to think of such a scenario. We'll just have to wait and see if it happens or not. :shrug:

    By the way, as you've noticed I tend to pull up old topics such as Shisui and Danzo out of my nether regions, so apologies for the possible future threads regarding pre Shippuuden stuff beforehand. I once brought up Itachi and Kisame's conversation about Jiraiya, Naruto and Kurama when they were first heading towards Konoha. From the manga issue #144. The problem is that we were way into the War Arc when I did so.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManWonderLand View Post
    + rep unlike the many people on here you lay out details and provide examples and do not act like what you think is a certainty.
    I agree with most of the thread and esp on shisui being in root i am not sure on him willingly giving danzo his eye but you do bring up a good point.
    Thanks a lot!
    Well, the original Japanese quote of Itachi was something along the lines of ''Shisui's other eye was already in the possesion of Danzo.'' and he never mentioned it being taken by force. Besides, if Shisui was indeed a member of Root it would mean that he was already willing to sacrifice everything for his cause, as he did. Meh, I really don't know...
    Actually when you think of it, ensuring that Itachi got his other eye kind of indicates that even if he was on good terms with Danzo and a member of Root, he didn't trust him fully. Itachi was his backup plan, the one he entirely trusted, in case things went awry.
    But on the other hand, if he didn't willingly give his eye to Danzo, how did he escape? How was he still alive?
    Unfortunately we can only speculate from now on, I don't see Kishi revealing anything else about these guys... Hey! Maybe a new databook!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kichiro Fujimoto View Post
    I think Obito awaken his Shanringan seeing the death of Rin (the first option). And |LOL| about the Dumbledore part.
    Might be, but as I mentioned above, that scenario is like a plot hax, which I'm not very fond of. :shrug:
    Anyways, thanks for the input!
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrex View Post
    Wow.. I actually like your theory and it makes perfect sense. It would also be a curve ball that would've been hard to predict.
    + Rep. Great thread
    Haha, thanks to you too!
    Well, it actually doesn't change anything if it turns out to be true or not. I just like to speculate about such insignificant plot details. It's fun.
     
         
    Last edited by Kirin Rei; 10-06-2012 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Bloody typo.

  9. #9
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    can this thread be stickied and labeled "How a speculation thread SHOULD be written"
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Good analysis. I agree with your conclusion, but there's still one part that isn't clear: when exactly did Itachi get his MS? Chap. 223 suggests he had it well before the massacre:

    Maybe he killed someone else. Or maybe he got it just by witnessing Shisui's suicide. Anywho, I'm not entirely convinced Itachi wasn't lying when he said you had to kill your closest friend; sure, that'll do it, but there are other ways.
     
         

  11. #11
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Codex View Post
    Good analysis. I agree with your conclusion, but there's still one part that isn't clear: when exactly did Itachi get his MS? Chap. 223 suggests he had it well before the massacre:

    Maybe he killed someone else. Or maybe he got it just by witnessing Shisui's suicide. Anywho, I'm not entirely convinced Itachi wasn't lying when he said you had to kill your closest friend; sure, that'll do it, but there are other ways.
    Hahaha yeah, good point. I hadn't thought that through.
    But now that I do, two things come to mind.

    One; taking part in Shisui's death.
    Lookie here.

    It was a rumour amongst the Uchiha that Itachi had killed Shisui and forged his suicide note, but what Itachi reveals in chapter 550 is that Shisui was willing all along. Itachi only helped him along.

    So Itachi did actually take part in the death of Shisui. We don't know if he actually killed him or not, but I think we have to take the possibility into account. :shrug:

    Shisui's body was found in the Naka river, if you look closely at the top two panels, they're in front of that river at the time.

    Fun fact, Shisui's name means dead water.
    It's never written with any kanji, only hiragana, so if we try to use any kanji in his name we come up with two different meanings.

    シスイ (Shisui) is how it's written in the manga.

    With kanji it can either be;
    死水 (shisui) -> 死 (shi) means death and 水 (mizu or sui) means water.
    Or;
    止水 (shisui) -> 止水 (tome or shi) means stationary and 水 (mizu or sui) again means water.

    Anyways, two; Itachi most probably was a member of Root.
    Killing the Uchiha clan was his mission. He was on close terms with Danzo, he was spying for him. Actually he was a double agent but had to make a choice.

    So, Itachi too might have been forced to kill his friend from his training days. :shrug:

    All matters aside, I think that Itachi has so much blood on his hands that it's not unimaginable for him to have awakened his MS during a point before the Massacre.
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    It's a really good theory, although I doubt the connection between Obito and Madara was strong enough to vouch for the former being able to unlock the Mangekyou Sharingan via such means. Sure, Obito owed his life to Madara, though there was hardly (with what we've seen) a relationship on a personal level (unlike Sasuke/Itachi or *Itachi/Shisui, for example). It was just like "Thanks for saving me, whatevz, i'm out old man".
     
         

  13. #13
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    what puzzle s me is that how did he gain ems, it is said "exhange of eyes can only be done between siblings" so obito had to have brother or sister, which he killed during massacre of uchiha
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    MS can be awakened by a very traumatic experience.

    Sasuke have not awakened MS when Itachi died in front of him. His MS awakened when he knew the true story behind the massacre done by Itachi. It's the trauma that will awaken the MS.

    Even if Obito haven't witnessed Rin's death, but he heard the news of her death, he could awaken the MS.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuchibaby View Post
    MS can be awakened by a very traumatic experience.

    Sasuke have not awakened MS when Itachi died in front of him. His MS awakened when he knew the true story behind the massacre done by Itachi. It's the trauma that will awaken the MS.

    Even if Obito haven't witnessed Rin's death, but he heard the news of her death, he could awaken the MS.
    no, that's just speculation gaining mangekyo follow set of rules you have to kill and feel the pain of losing that person, kind of cursed way to obtain power completely opposite of senju. but what comes who did obito kill?? rin? bullshit i can prove it check last page of new chapter. lol ... was it madara like thread maker believe mm.. very possible kind of same way what itachi and shisui did it's clear madara mean world to obito and vice versa they respect each other.

    what i think happened is obito did kill his sister and stole his eye prior to massacre since itachi did say obito managed to slip over uchiha defence and that is s/t tech so he did have mangekyo even back then
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    The initial premise for you theory is wrong, you can awaken MS by the experience of a persons death, you don't have to kill him. Itachi said that while he was acting cause he didn't want sasuke to be like him.. Also Itachi didn't kill shisui, he committed suicide and Itachi saw it, which made him awaken the eyes.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    The initial premise for you theory is wrong, you can awaken MS by the experience of a persons death, you don't have to kill him. Itachi said that while he was acting cause he didn't want sasuke to be like him.. Also Itachi didn't kill shisui, he committed suicide and Itachi saw it, which made him awaken the eyes.
    did u say that to me ? btw i don't know what initial premise means but i assume this fly my initial premise is right itachi did say shisui committed suicide but that is just way to say something what truly transpired is mystery but "suicide" don't mean he stab himself to head, i assume they we're in agreement how he die and what makes it suicide is shisui wanted/let die and left that burden to itachi, and itachi make sure shisui body will never be found probably first time when he used amaterasu, no matter what words itachi used he killed shisui with his own hands.
     
         

  18. #18
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by jorgelius View Post
    what puzzle s me is that how did he gain ems, it is said "exhange of eyes can only be done between siblings" so obito had to have brother or sister, which he killed during massacre of uchiha
    Actually, I doubt Tobi has EMS.
    He still has the same MS pattern as Kakashi and we've clearly seen that Sharingan patterns change when upgraded from MS to EMS.
    Here's the difference between Sasuke's MS and EMS as an example.



    Meh, maybe the reason his eyesight didn't deteriorate to the extreme was because of his Hashi cells.
    That was how Danzo's Shisui MS activation time was explained. :shrug:
    Kishi seems to have a way to weave through this kind of stuff.

    The ultimate answer to everything in Narutoverse: HASHI CELLS!
    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    The initial premise for you theory is wrong, you can awaken MS by the experience of a persons death, you don't have to kill him. Itachi said that while he was acting cause he didn't want sasuke to be like him.. Also Itachi didn't kill shisui, he committed suicide and Itachi saw it, which made him awaken the eyes.
    Now, where was that said in the manga?

    There are still some unclarified parts regarding the awakening of MS and we're speculating on them here.

    It's never said that Itachi saw Shisui commit suicide. Itachi says that he ''helped him with his plan''...
    We don't know what he did, the only thing we're certain is that he was involved in it.

    So please refrain from claiming that a speculation is a fact.
     
         

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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/600/12 wait a second Rei isn't that ems desing ? and http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/475/8 seems like hes eye sight hasn't deteriorate at all infact after reading that i speculated even back then that he has ems, and anyway he's s/t tech is mangekyo doujutsu right..? he use it all the time that's only possible with ems,

    that leave me few questions too can it be regular sharingan skill? phasing moving instantly etc coz madara said obito survive that rock like miracle like he managed to escape the rock or something and he's sharingan was active but it doesn't make sense that it's hes special regular sharingan skill.. sure people has learn using st tech's without sharingan but its said that tobi is way better at s/t than minato and nidaime combined.. ems just make sense
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by jorgelius View Post
    http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/600/12 wait a second Rei isn't that ems desing ? and http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/475/8 seems like hes eye sight hasn't deteriorate at all infact after reading that i speculated even back then that he has ems, and anyway he's s/t tech is mangekyo doujutsu right..? he use it all the time that's only possible with ems,

    that leave me few questions too can it be regular sharingan skill? phasing moving instantly etc coz madara said obito survive that rock like miracle like he managed to escape the rock or something and he's sharingan was active but it doesn't make sense that it's hes special regular sharingan skill.. sure people has learn using st tech's without sharingan but its said that tobi is way better at s/t than minato and nidaime combined.. ems just make sense
    Nah, sorry, but it's just regular MS. Or Kakashi somehow turned his MS into EMS too. :shrug:

    But the more I think the more I'm leaning towards believing that his ability to spam his jutsu has something to do with the Hashi DNA he has.
    Lookie here, Kishi has been throwing hints about his plot hax; HASHI DNA!








    You can't go wrong with HASHI DNA!

    Now at your local market and/or anywhere you can get in touch with Oro.

    HASHI DNA!

    Don't miss it!

    HASHI DNA!

    For further info call 099 H-A-S-H-I
     
         

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