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  1. #21
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirin Rei View Post

    Now, where was that said in the manga?

    There are still some unclarified parts regarding the awakening of MS and we're speculating on them here.

    It's never said that Itachi saw Shisui commit suicide. Itachi says that he ''helped him with his plan''...
    We don't know what he did, the only thing we're certain is that he was involved in it.

    So please refrain from claiming that a speculation is a fact.
    Well it may not be said directly, but then lets do this in another way. Do you think a person like shisui would kill his closest friend for his own selfishness? Besides you can take a look at this:


    Itachi says: "he asked me to hide its existence and then died silently", if he killed him, wouldn't he just say that he killed him?

    Besides you base your theory on facts that Itachi said when he was obviously lying. First of all Itachi says he forged the suicide note, but why on earth would he need to do that when shisui was actually making plans with itachi? So that had to be a lie, so how can we trust the rest? Judging from what he says it seem a lot more likely that itachi didn't kill him. He might have hidden his body though..
     
         

  2. #22
    ヽ(`Д´)ノ︵ ┻━┻ Kirin Rei's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Well it may not be said directly, but then lets do this in another way. Do you think a person like shisui would kill his closest friend for his own selfishness? Besides you can take a look at this:
    Whoa, hold your horses for a second. We can't decide on what characters can/can't do solely depending on ''oh look at those puppy like eyes, how could this person do such a thing'' kind of thinking.

    Nagato was portrayed as an arsehole and the main boss for a while, he ended up reviving all of Konoha, betraying the cause he was working on for decades and in the process, sacrificing himself.

    We all viewed Obito as the Naruto who unfortunately died. He was the turning point for Kakashi and risked his life for his comrades and actually gave his life (kind of, he was dead meat if Madara hadn't found him) in order to save Kakashi. Now look at him, he slaughtered the Uchiha, slaughtered a bunch of other people during Kurama's attack, broke Torune's neck without even hesitating just so Kabuto could demonstrate a jutsu, yada yada and is currently wreaking havoc on Narutoverse.

    Any more examples?

    Hmm, Itachi who was portrayed as a bad*ss mofo with no emotions turned out to be a weird kind of hero who saved Konoha from war and sacrificed himself while doing so.

    Oh, let's not forget Kakashi!
    A week ago I would have stabbed someone in the eye with a rusty fork if anyone would have accused him of killing a comrade. We're still not sure about what's going on yet but at the moment he has his arm through Rin's left boob.

    I'm not saying that Shisui went out and murdered his friend willingly just so he could gain a better set of eyes, I'm just saying that him killing a friend isn't out of the question, whatever his motives were.
    He was a part of ANBU, I have reason to suspect Root too. Which requires you kill your partner before you get accepted.

    Besides, we don't know anything about him. He's just a character we know due to stories others told. It's not like we knew him or he got any panels in the manga or anything. All we've seen him in are flashbacks.

    As a last addition, we've seen many people change in the manga. Kakashi went from an utter arsehole to a guy that sacrificed himself so Chouji could get a message across. Same goes for Nagato, Konan, Sasori and countless other characters. They go from good to bad too.

    Fuu and Torune were loyal and righteous comrades who apparently cared for each other, but the fact remains that they did kill their friends to get accepted into Root. :shrug:

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Itachi says: "he asked me to hide its existence and then died silently", if he killed him, wouldn't he just say that he killed him?
    Not necessarily. Why should he?
    By the way, the English translation is a little off.

    In the original Japanese Itachi says; ... He died to hide the existence of his eye... To prevent another conflict over it... There's nothing about Danzo taking one, although it's certain that he did. After that quote Itachi skippes to the Sasuke part where he says ''I left Sasuke behind and now he's a threat to the village.'' he's comparing Sasuke to Shisui's eye and how he brought trouble.

    Anyways, back to the topic.

    This panel is from just moments before Shisui's death. That's the Naka river behind Shisui. Itachi was there. Shisui died in front of him. We don't know what happened there but the fact remains that Shisui died right after giving Itachi his eye, without changing locations.
    Shisui wanted to die, it was his plan. If Itachi aided him in doing so that wouldn't mean that he committed a heinous murder. It would mean that he helped Shisui achieve his goal. So it's perfectly fine to speculate.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Besides you base your theory on facts that Itachi said when he was obviously lying. First of all Itachi says he forged the suicide note, but why on earth would he need to do that when shisui was actually making plans with itachi? So that had to be a lie, so how can we trust the rest? Judging from what he says it seem a lot more likely that itachi didn't kill him. He might have hidden his body though..
    Although I admit that we must take the quotes of characters like Tobi and Itachi with a grain of salt, we can't label everything they say as lies just because some of them supposedly are.

    By the way, Shisui's body was found. It was meant to be found, that's why they made it so that people would think he crushed his eyes.
     
         

  3. #23
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    itachi sickness shame he didn't have bottle of hashi bone marrow D: but back to topic yeah just now i discovered that obito don't have ems desing.. also he spoke about power of "real kamui" so maybe eye sight is fine coz he hasn't USEd ms that often. S/T must be just regular sharingan technique yeaH i know i know about hundred reasons why this must be false

    or maybe that is possible through hashi cells yet again :D nidaime was great space time tech wielder and he was senju idk sometime i feel kishi needs more time to work details of each chapter since big picture is bit confusing

    i forgot most wierd thing!! it was obito who freed nine tails and TAMED him i allways assumed this can only be done with ems,

    sage did fight juubi and he had red rinnegan, power scale was totally different that of the bijuus,
    cursed uchiha have lineage sharingan which comes straight from sage
    sage is known to create and controll tailed beast's
    Madara with most perfect form of sharingan could controll fox with taming genjutsu which sasuke can do now as well
    hashirama is said to control bijuus like pets
    madara + hashirama = blue "imperfect" rinnegan since he awakened it himself power it holds is unreal
    obito was able to use madara rinnegan to control simultionely 6 beast

    taming kyuubi can't be done with regular sharingan sure i admit in uchiha stone monument was written that mangekyo is required for this but i believe ems is necessary
     
         
    Last edited by jorgelius; 10-08-2012 at 04:37 AM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    No it was awaken by Rins death in my opinion
     
         

  5. #25
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirin Rei View Post
    Hahaha yeah, good point. I hadn't thought that through.
    But now that I do, two things come to mind.

    One; taking part in Shisui's death. ...
    It was a rumour amongst the Uchiha that Itachi had killed Shisui and forged his suicide note, but what Itachi reveals in chapter 550 is that Shisui was willing all along. Itachi only helped him along.

    So Itachi did actually take part in the death of Shisui. We don't know if he actually killed him or not, but I think we have to take the possibility into account. :shrug:
    ...
    Anyways, two; Itachi most probably was a member of Root.
    Killing the Uchiha clan was his mission. He was on close terms with Danzo, he was spying for him. Actually he was a double agent but had to make a choice.

    So, Itachi too might have been forced to kill his friend from his training days. :shrug:

    All matters aside, I think that Itachi has so much blood on his hands that it's not unimaginable for him to have awakened his MS during a point before the Massacre.
    Good enough for me. I'm convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by hokageofthehiddenhemp View Post
    No it was awaken by Rins death in my opinion
    Maybe, but doubtful, imo. Even if one could obtain MS without killing someone, Obito currently only has a 2-tomoe sharingan, and it's unlikely that such a sharingan could suddenly evolve to MS. Most likely, Rin's death will result in Obito obtaining the 3rd tomoe. Then again, if the "evidence" points one way, Kishi will probably do the opposite, so who knows?
     
         

  6. #26
    Gangster Lean Instructor p0002q's Avatar
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    Re: Tobi/Obito could have killed Madara in order to awaken his MS.

    MS is activated when experiencing the loss of a loved one.

    There was a great theory posted about Obito activating his MS while being crushed under the rock.

    He experienced the loss of everyone he loved because in his mind he was saying goodbye.

    Goodbye to his crush, goodbye to his new friend Kakashi, to his sensei, his clan, everyone else.

    He had just gone through a tremendous amount of emotions and was saying his goodbyes.

    His mind and body were both 100% convinced it was the absolute last time he would see his friends while living, thus experiencing true loss of loved ones.

    This, in my opinion, is what activated his MS ability and allowed him to phase down into the ground where Madara was.

    I think his MS is a unique case though because he was unaware of what or how he managed to escape.
     
         

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