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  1. #1
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    Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    This is the theory that I've been working on for several weeks. This theory uses only information that we've seen directly in the manga so far.

    Madara wants to form the juubi and become the jinchuuriki of it to gain ultimate power. But, what power exactly? Nagato seemed to have one plan, but Obito has a completely different plan. Both these plans originated with Madara, so he must have lied to at least one of them. I think he lied to both. Let's review history by picking apart some major events and changes to the "plan" that we know about.

    WARNING: There is a lot of text to read here. I've tried to break it up and hide parts of it. If you want a Tl;Dr summery, I added one at the bottom.

    Madara's Original Plan

    In the time before Madara met Obito, Madara created Akatsuki and gave the Rinnegan to Nagato. However, we know that Madara was not fully immortal and at some point Madara needed to die and be resurrected. The original plan was to have Nagato resurrect him.

    This is why Nagato got the Rinnegan, and why Madara spent so much time manipulating and guiding Nagato. Madara had to die, and he needed somebody with enough power to continue the plan and then be able to resurrect him at the correct time.

    But how? How does Madara convince Nagato to resurrect him when all the bijuu have been captured? The answer is in Nagato's plan: Nagato wanted to use the Bijuu to create a weapon. Which of Nagatos's ninjutsu techniques, if they were super-bijuu-powered, would create such a weapon that would be able to destroy nations? Shinra Tensei could, or chibaku tensei could too, but Nagato's weapon doesn't seem to be super-powered versions of either of these. Plus, Madara MUST have convinced Nagato that he was the key to creating this weapon. Nagato would resurrect Madara and Madara would turn the Bijuu into a weapon. I'm going to call this plan "Ultimate Amaterasu", although that title is a metaphor. The reference is to the fact that Amaterasu is the primary offensive weapon of Madara's sharingan eyes, a power that Nagato did not have. A version of Amaterasu with EMS eyes and the full chakra of the Juubi would indeed be able to wipe entire nations off the map and burn them forever.

    IMPORTANT: Nagato would not agree to resurrect Madara if they had two different plans. Madara MUST have told Nagato that he had the same plan (creating the ultimate weapon) and that Madara was the only one who could make it. There's no other way to convince Nagato to resurrect Madara. If it was something Nagato could do himself, Madara would never be resurrected.


    Nagato's Plan

    Nagato wanted to use the Bijuu to create a weapon. However, Nagato NEVER mentions the Juubi. Nagato only mentions the Bijuu. Nagato doesn't seem to know that they can be combined into the Juubi, and never describes exactly what this weapon would be. This is because Nagato does not know. This is where Madara comes in. When the Fox is captured, Nagato is supposed to revive Madara to create the weapon. This is a LIE. Madara is going to combine the Bijuu into the Juubi, become the Jinchuuriki of it. At this point, he probably kills Nagato, gets his original rinnegan eyes back, and does something crazy.

    Nagato learned about this plan because Madara told him, and Nagato agreed to help with it because Madara was the only person who could do it.

    If this doesn't make sense, remember this: Madara didn't plan to meet Obito. That was an accident. Madara told Obito to resurrect him. If Madara didn't want to be resurrected before, why would he only want to be resurrected after meeting Obito? The answer is that HE ALWAYS PLANNED TO BE RESURRECTED, and his plan was basically the same whether he met Obito or not. Meeting Obito was an ACCIDENT, so it must not have changed his goals, only the the way those goals were achieved. Obito gave Madara a Plan B, but didn't change the goals at all. If Madara wanted to be resurrected after meeting Obito, he also wanted to be resurrected BEFORE meeting Obito, and the only person available to do it was Nagato.

    Also remember: Nobody ever mentioned Infinite Tsukuyomi before Obito said it, and Obito never talked about it with Nagato. Obito had a different plan from Nagato, and both of them thought Madara agreed with them.


    Madara Meets Obito

    Madara's original plan has a single point of failure: Nagato. If Nagato dies, or if he changes his mind, Madara never gets resurrected. When Madara met and manipulated Obito he got his Plan B. If Nagato died, Obito would steal the eyes to resurrect Madara himself. If Nagato changed his mind, Obito could control him with genjutsu. In either case, now Madara has two points of failure, which is good.

    Obito doesn't want to create a weapon, he has his own plan: Infinite Tsukuyomi. Obito is inspired by the death of Rin to end the world and turn it into a permanent dream where dead people are alive and everybody is happy. This is the plan that Madara told to Obito, to manipulate Obito into following Madara.


    Obito's Plan

    Obito is a nihilist and wants to turn the world into a dream where everybody (Rin) is alive and everybody is happy. Obito wasn't scarred by violence in war like Nagato was. Instead, Obito was traumatized by the death of Rin. Obito has different motivations from Nagato, and Madara manipulated him differently by telling him about Infinite Tsukuyomi instead of the chakra weapon that he told Nagato. However, Obito's eyes can use Kamui, not Tsukuyomi. This means Obito MUST either resurrect Madara or, as plan B, force Sasuke to do it instead. Madara doesn't know about Sasuke because Madara was dead before Sasuke was born. This part of the plan was Obito's only.


    Emergency Change of Plan: Kabuto

    Obviously Kabuto wasn't part of the plan, and Kabuto resurrected Madara with Edo Tensei before Obito could resurrect him with Rinne Tensei. This is why Obito didn't create the Juubi immediately after collecting the two treasures from the battlefield: He needed to wait for Kabuto to either be defeated, or for Sasuke to recover from his surgery. After Kabuto was defeated and Edo Tensei appeared to have been ended, Obito tried to create the Juubi so he would have enough chakra to revive Madara (again). Luckily for him, Madara wasn't released and does not need to be resurrected again.


    Madara's "Real" Plan

    Nagato thinks Madara wants one thing (Ultimate Amaterasu). Obito thinks Madara wants another thing (Infinite Tsukuyomi). Both of these people were trusted by Madara to make sure he was resurrected. Nagato had the Rinnegan and Obito had powerful genjutsu capable of controlling Nagato if necessary. Both these two were manipulated with different goals in order to make sure they resurrected Madara.

    Notice that Tsukuyomi comes from Madara's LEFT eye only. Amaterasu comes from the RIGHT eye only. Each of these represents half of Madara's true power. This is why I called Nagato's plan "Ultimate Amaterasu", because of the symmetry. Nagato wants to create an offensive weapon from one of Madara's eyes (Amaterasu). Obito wants to create an illusion from Madara's other eye (Tsukuyomi). Each of these only requires one eye from Madara. His true power (Susanoo) comes from both eyes at the same time. Actually, because of Hashirama, his "true power" is much more than that.

    We've seen Madara's stabilized Susanoo: It's a mountain-sized warrior made of stabilized chakra, but that warrior is form only (Spiritual Energy). Madara has inherited the spiritual energy necessary to create Susanoo through his ancestors from the Sage of 6 Paths. We also know what happened to the physical energy of the sage: It was inherited by Hashirama. Madara now has Hashirama's power.

    Remember the old story about how the Sage created the Bijuu using Izanagi: Spiritual Energy created form, Physical Energy gave that form life. One creature (the Juubi) was turned into 9 separate creatures (the Bijuu). What parts of this equation does Madara have now? He obviously has the spiritual energy ability to create a form (Stabilized Susanoo). He has Hashirama's power to turn chakra into life (wood release). He has the Sage's Rinnegan. All he needs now is the chakra of the Juubi and he can use Izanagi to create something new.

    Keep in mind that on several occasions we've heard this: Konan said that the combination of Uchiha and Senju power was "the power of the sage". Both Madara and Obito have suggested that the combination of these two powers would lead to the power of the sage. In the most recent chapter Zetsu says that combining these two powers would lead to a new power that had never been seen. Even Kabuto seemed to think that the real power of the sage was greater than Obito's plan. But, if you look at the infinite tsukuyomi plan, it doesn't require Senju power at all: Madara, a pure-blood Uchiha, uses an Uchiha technique (Tsukuyomi) to capture the world in a genjutsu. Where's the Senju power come in?

    It stands to reason that Madara's real plan is going to utilize these powers that he has collected. I'm calling this plan, again to keep up the metaphore, "Living Susanoo". It's the plan that requires both Madara's eyes (Susanoo) and Hashirama's physical energy/wood release powers to create a new living entity from the power of the Juubi. Madara, in essence, becomes a gigantic monster like the Juubi and is able to conquer and even destroy the world.


    Tl;Dr - Summary

    1) Tsukuyomi requires only one MS eye. Madara has two MS eyes, and has actually leveled them up to EMS and then Rinnegan. He has more eye power than the infinite tsukuyomi plan requires.
    2) Infinite Tsukuyomi only requires Uchiha power. Madara has Uchiha AND Senju (Hashirama's wood release) power. Madara has more Senju power than the infinite tsukuyomi plan requires.
    3) Madara clearly told two different plans to two different people (Nagato and Obito). Both of these only require half of his power.
    4) Madara's "real" plan should use both his eyes (Susanoo), and should combine the spiritual/Uchiha energy with the physical/Senju energy, since he spent a lot of time and effort to gather these things.
    5) Izanagi, the power of the sage to combine spiritual and physical energies, could be used to turn Madara's stabilized Susanoo into a gigantic monster with Juubi power. We know the Sage used this same creation power to create the Bijuu. Madara can use this power to create something new.
    6) This theory uses only information we've learned in the manga and requires no new powers or other unexplained things. The only requirement is that you have to believe that Madara lied to Obito the same way Madara lied to Nagato. Since these two men were told different things by Madara, he already must have lied to at least one of them. I think he lied to both.

    Questions, comments, corrections are all good.
     
         

  2. #2
    Black Dragon Draw's Avatar
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    damn that would make total sense for the final battle to be naruto and sasuke vs some gigantic chakra monster madara transforms into.
     
         

  3. #3
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    wow!! Thats so long, and you could be right! Lets see what others have 2 say
     
         

  4. #4
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    No joke i took the time to read that entire thing. Its dope bro
     
         

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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    First of all woooooooow ;O for searching and linking the facts together great job
    nice theory logical and interesting
    but i think somehow tobi should have forced nagato to resurrect madara by the right time
    but what is the right time as you said when all bijus are gathered? not completly convinced
    and why should madara wants to be a beeing to destroy nations ok he would roule the world and destroy everthing
    what is when all nations are ruined ? he gets bored and we now that he is a guy who likes to enjoy something
    and btw why becomming a great beast which no one can destroy if nobody can defeat him now ? :D
     
         

  6. #6
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    I thought yahiko created akatsuki
     
         

  7. #7
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    One little thing. Obito couldn't have been resurrecting the Juubi to gain chakra to revive Madara. This was because he wasn't at all surprised when Madara released himself from Edo Tensei and joined the battle. Infact, Obito said it was very much like Madara. Hence, Obito's purpose behind resurrecting the Juubi must have been the eye of the moon plan he was pursuing.
    Also he had enough chakra to resurrect Madara anyway, since he could control all the 7 Jinchuuriki.
     
         

  8. #8
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    I'm not totally convince, but good theory. +rep for very obvious effort.
     
         

  9. #9
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Amazing.*Liked,+rep, subscribed and memorized*
     
         

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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    I think Nagato knew Madara's real plan of Infinite Tsukuyomi and lied to everyone else about the plan. The Akatsuki wouldn't have cooperated with him otherwise. Nagato, as leader of Akatsuki, needed to manipulate everyone, including Konan. Besides, Nagato would have resurrected him if he wanted to carry out the Infinite Tsukuyomi with Madara.

    EDIT: Another reason I'm not convinced.. .The zetsu started explaining Madara's plan before Rin died. They were trying to get him to cooperate with Infinite Tsukuyomi. Rin dying was that push that led Obito to accept Madara's plan.
     
         

  11. #11
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    thats awsome. =) it be funny to see madaras appearance IF it were to change IF he becomes the host of the Juubi. read it all. +rep!
     
         

  12. #12
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    You are a genious, everthing you wrote is backed by the manga, and even though it was long, it felt like a breese because it all made sense and produced a re assuring theory on what is to come, wow, +rep.
     
         

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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    +Rep. Makes sense, BEST THEORY SO FAR
     
         

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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    You theory is very logical! Never thought about that so detailed...
    but I also thought about something equal, so the Manga could end the following way:
    I think that Sasuke will play the most important role because on the one hand Madara doesn't know about him (not like he does know Naruto) and on the other hand he has the power to be a hero. Now my theory is that Naruto will end the work Itachi began and turn Sasuke into a "good" person and Sasuke is able to prefent Madaras mad plan.
    That'd be my happy end :3
     
         

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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    good theory
    but one thing i disagree on is when you said infinite tsukuyomi doesn't require senju dna
    madara or obito has to become the jinchuuriki of the juubi to power up their eyes to do infinite tsukuyomi
    you have to have the body(senju and/or uzumaki)to be the juubi's jinchuuriki
     
         

  16. #16
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Well, great theory nonetheless! But in the end it was needed the Senju power to be able to do all those things.
    Anyway GREAT THEORY!
     
         

  17. #17
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Your theory have some huge holes which makes it either incomplete or there is a lot of stuff you haven't looked through well enough..

    Anyways let me review some of it. First you give me the impression that you believe Madara talked to Nagato, I will say that this is frankly impossible. He said he "died" shortly after awakening the rinnengan, but this is not my main argument, it's just the fact that nagato was a child when he got the rinnengan, then lived with jiraya for 3 years, so it's almost impossible. Of course he lived in the cave for some time, but he couldn't leave it, he said so himself. My main argument, however, is that Nagato believed obito was Madara, which is why it is more likely that obito gave this plan to nagato. Madara definitely did something that made Yahiko start akatsuki, but we can't know what that was. I believe it might be through someone else, perhaps Orochimarou, but that doesn't seem to affect your theory so let that one be.

    You say in the start you only use evidence from the manga. Uchiha Madara has never used Amaterasu OR Tsukuyomi. Yes we have seen some genjutsu that disables people, but it doesn't appear to be Tsukuyomi, since it is very unique, and there probably exists tons of these sort of paralyzing eye jutsus within the uchiha. All we know is that he can use susano.

    All in all you go into "Madaras real plan", I do also believe he might have another plan, but in order to describe it you need to look at so many more aspects. Such as HOW and WHY he gave nagato the rinnengan. How he made Yahiko start Akatsuki. Why he stayed alive in an underground cave for so long, and if he had a purpose with it (cause meeting obito seemed more like a lucky coincidence for him)

    In general I think you just state a few facts that we know, and then tell us what you think madara really wanted to do, still many facts are needed to say all this, and it becomes more guessing than actual theory with facts from the manga.

    I did like to read it though, and you did a good effort, I'm just missing something, and I don't like when you say you use facts from the manga, when Madara never used Amaterasu - for instance
     
         

  18. #18
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Nah, it's probably the Moon eye plan, I think we'll see when Obito goes back to Madara
     
         

  19. #19
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    ... it's just the fact that nagato was a child when he got the rinnengan, then lived with jiraya for 3 years, so it's almost impossible. Of course he lived in the cave for some time, but he couldn't leave it, he said so himself. My main argument, however, is that Nagato believed obito was Madara, which is why it is more likely that obito gave this plan to nagato. ...
    It's more likely Nagato was born with the Rinnegan. Also the legend that said that Jiraya shall find the child of prophesy would be created with the knowleg that in the future there would be another person with the Rinnegan (that's what I believ) to restore the world.

    The funny thing about this is that not the person with the greatest power but the world greatest idot can be the true hero with the right attitude^^
     
         

  20. #20
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaviour View Post
    Nah, it's probably the Moon eye plan, I think we'll see when Obito goes back to Madara
    No matter whitch plan it is in the end. Madara finally acts like a evil idiot. I'm very interested in the full background story of him so in the end I can understand how he came to act that way. THAT would be a really interesing tread. :D
     
         

  21. #21
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebod View Post
    It's more likely Nagato was born with the Rinnegan. Also the legend that said that Jiraya shall find the child of prophesy would be created with the knowleg that in the future there would be another person with the Rinnegan (that's what I believ) to restore the world.

    The funny thing about this is that not the person with the greatest power but the world greatest idot can be the true hero with the right attitude^^
    Yep I also made a theory once where I stated Madara never directly gave his eyes to Nagato, he used some sort of jutsu that was possible with the EMS that allowed nagato to awake the rinnengan, and this cost him his eye sight on one eye, like izanagi. I said he sort of "transfered" some power to nagato that allowed the awaking, thus he could express it as "his" eyes, since he made their awakening possible. It would also make most of Nagatos life a lie, if he was just "given" madaras eyes, and I don't think that is Kishis intention with the 1st child of prophecy.
     
         

  22. #22
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Nice theory! The onlz loophole i could see would b madara becoming the juubi's kinchuriki while being an edo which is not what he intended but hey it could be possible who knows
     
         

  23. #23
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Great Theory!
     
         

  24. #24
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Draw View Post
    damn that would make total sense for the final battle to be naruto and sasuke vs some gigantic chakra monster madara transforms into.
    this:D
     
         

  25. #25
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    Re: Unified Theory: Madara's True Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    ... Madara never directly gave his eyes to Nagato...
    That's much more likely
     
         

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