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  1. #251
    Member Son of God's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    So far you've presented nothing of substance apart from the usual evolutionary brush offs. I can ditto the above for your own beliefs. Same old arguments in favor of evolution. All of which have been debunked. Nothing new. Ever. And your arguments are applied to your beliefs, too, because what you believe is a BELIEF and nothing more.

    Give me one shred of factual, testable, repeatable evidence for how particles popped into existence, and then turned into plants, pandas, and people, all on their own. You see, even thinking people need to believe something about origins, so they have chosen this particular myth, which has no basis in reality.

    The desperate attempts to "prove" the myth, like appealing to antibiotic resistance in bacteria (another falsified tenet of evolution) are pathetic at best. Here's the typical philosophical leap the evolutionist takes: "Bacteria develop antibiotic resistance. That PROVES that bacteria turned into Bob and Barbara over millions of years!" Oh boy!
    Antibiotic resistance does not demonstrate evolution for the following reasons: First, it arises in genetic material that is ALREADY present. I can't say that enough, but evolutionists just don't seem to get it. Second, when an antibiotic is introduced, bacteria that are ALREADY PRESENT and have resistance flourish, where the normal flora is killed off. Third, when the antibiotic is removed, the normal flora return and the resistant strains die out. Now, if you can tell me how that demonstrates how bacteria arose from nothing and turned into bacteria, then we'll be getting somewhere.

    Reading book?Been doing that for over 10 years.
    Now, I'd suggest you go do what I've done, and read lots of books that discuss your beliefs from every angle (not just the ones you like) so you know what it says, and aren't just going on what someone else told you.Then read some of the late books out on darwinism's influence on Hitler, Stalin and the like.
    You're simply ignorant. No need to insult you. I can tell you haven't been educated in any biology.

    Once again. To pick at your earlier statement, search Sickle cell anemia.
     
         

  2. #252
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    So far you've presented nothing of substance apart from the usual evolutionary brush offs. I can ditto the above for your own beliefs. Same old arguments in favor of evolution. All of which have been debunked. Nothing new. Ever. And your arguments are applied to your beliefs, too, because what you believe is a BELIEF and nothing more.

    Give me one shred of factual, testable, repeatable evidence for how particles popped into existence, and then turned into plants, pandas, and people, all on their own. You see, even thinking people need to believe something about origins, so they have chosen this particular myth, which has no basis in reality.

    The desperate attempts to "prove" the myth, like appealing to antibiotic resistance in bacteria (another falsified tenet of evolution) are pathetic at best. Here's the typical philosophical leap the evolutionist takes: "Bacteria develop antibiotic resistance. That PROVES that bacteria turned into Bob and Barbara over millions of years!" Oh boy!
    Antibiotic resistance does not demonstrate evolution for the following reasons: First, it arises in genetic material that is ALREADY present. I can't say that enough, but evolutionists just don't seem to get it. Second, when an antibiotic is introduced, bacteria that are ALREADY PRESENT and have resistance flourish, where the normal flora is killed off. Third, when the antibiotic is removed, the normal flora return and the resistant strains die out. Now, if you can tell me how that demonstrates how bacteria arose from nothing and turned into bacteria, then we'll be getting somewhere.

    Reading book?Been doing that for over 10 years.
    Now, I'd suggest you go do what I've done, and read lots of books that discuss your beliefs from every angle (not just the ones you like) so you know what it says, and aren't just going on what someone else told you.Then read some of the late books out on darwinism's influence on Hitler, Stalin and the like.
    Read Lawrence Krauss's brook entitled "A Universe from Nothing", in there is some pretty strong "shreds of evidence" pointing to a universe that can be born from nothing. But just a side note, faith based atheists are just the same as religious believers. So a true atheist should be skeptical and know his science.
     
         

  3. #253
    Member 8thHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    So far you've presented nothing of substance apart from the usual evolutionary brush offs. I can ditto the above for your own beliefs. Same old arguments in favor of evolution. All of which have been debunked. Nothing new. Ever. And your arguments are applied to your beliefs, too, because what you believe is a BELIEF and nothing more.

    Give me one shred of factual, testable, repeatable evidence for how particles popped into existence, and then turned into plants, pandas, and people, all on their own. You see, even thinking people need to believe something about origins, so they have chosen this particular myth, which has no basis in reality.

    The desperate attempts to "prove" the myth, like appealing to antibiotic resistance in bacteria (another falsified tenet of evolution) are pathetic at best. Here's the typical philosophical leap the evolutionist takes: "Bacteria develop antibiotic resistance. That PROVES that bacteria turned into Bob and Barbara over millions of years!" Oh boy!
    Antibiotic resistance does not demonstrate evolution for the following reasons: First, it arises in genetic material that is ALREADY present. I can't say that enough, but evolutionists just don't seem to get it. Second, when an antibiotic is introduced, bacteria that are ALREADY PRESENT and have resistance flourish, where the normal flora is killed off. Third, when the antibiotic is removed, the normal flora return and the resistant strains die out. Now, if you can tell me how that demonstrates how bacteria arose from nothing and turned into bacteria, then we'll be getting somewhere.

    Reading book?Been doing that for over 10 years.
    Now, I'd suggest you go do what I've done, and read lots of books that discuss your beliefs from every angle (not just the ones you like) so you know what it says, and aren't just going on what someone else told you.Then read some of the late books out on darwinism's influence on Hitler, Stalin and the like.
    noo, when a sick person takes antibiotics, the drugs begin to kill off the bacteria. But if treatment stops prematurely, it leaves some microbes alive -- the ones with mutations that make them resistant to the drugs. Because microbes are always mutating, some random mutation eventually will protect against the drug. Too much antibiotic use selects for more resistant mutants. When patients cut short the full course of drugs, the resistant strains have a chance to multiply and spread. As these survivors multiply, they pass along their protective mutations to all their descendants. In this way, the bacteria evolves into a new drug-resistant strain.
    There is no evidence for particles popping into existence, jus as there is no evidence for god popping into existence.. but unlike god, the particles are here, and we can observe them and test them.. so no, we cant explain the origin of everything, but if we start with particles being here, and go from there, everything makes sense.. hopefully as we become more technologically advanced, we will eventually be able to explain it, but until than there is no reason to make up something like god.. not knowing is ok.. there is nothing to believe and take on faith here, all of wat i know comes from evidence.. i dont believe anything, i know.. and with that, there are many things i dont know, equally as much actually..
     
         
    Last edited by 8thHokage; 10-12-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #254
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    asking this question is like asking is there any other life force anywhere else
     
         

  5. #255
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    I believe there's one god that we all worship to a certain extent/degree.

    One of my biggest influences as a fighter was an athiest; it's just another form of belief to me.
     
         

  6. #256
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    i belive that their are certain points where the bible makes sense and certain points where it doesnt and i belive that appalys to all religons i just know most about the bible in short im undecied i guess thats agnostic right
     
         

  7. #257
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    I am a ...

    Pantheist
    I hold that the entire observable universe is a novelty [instance of complex interconnectedness of matter, events & ideas] producing engine which — while not made of organic mater — has produced biological life and there for is in fact on a level of consciousness which makes it a form of inorganic life.

    Animist
    I perceive that all defined forms, organic & inorganic, have differing levels of consciousness and are thus 'holy' or 'divine'. How is this possible? It is my experience that the consciousness is not produced from the brain, like an engine producing motion, but instead a seat of consciousness receiving the transmission of what we metaphorically call spirit from the Bell non-local space.

    Polytheist
    It has come to my attention that given every thing else I've stated so far that I am not, in fact, the biggest kid on the block — so to speak. Beings of greater intellect, waking consciousness, physical power & dimensionality could exist and more than likely do in our universe. That is in fact the conservative view — saying that their is only one or none is being overtly dishonest.

    In other words, it is entirely possible that every god exists on some level of reality and the multiverse.

    Even if this multiplicity of gods isn't a reality, a case can be made for the use of psychopomps — In Jungian psychology, the psychopomp is a mediator between the unconscious and conscious realms. It is symbolically personified in dreams as a wise man or woman, or sometimes as a helpful animal. In many cultures, a shaman can also fulfill the role of the psychopomp. This may include not only accompanying the soul of the dead, but also vice versa: to help at birth, to introduce the newborn child's soul to the world.

    Psychonaut
    I find it evident that human beings are creatures that addict — to certain foods, to chemicals, to ideals, to people & to relationships. It is this relationship to the world that leads us to my belief that it is the birthright of every human being on the planet to experiment with their own body as they see fit. This includes expanding consciousness with plant hallucinogens.

    In other words, after a heroic dose [5 dried grams] of Psilocybin Cubensis on an empty stomach you will indeed find out what all the prophet(es)s' & holy Guru's are talking about when it comes to the gods.

    Mystic
    It is clear to me that language is the only thing separating people. Change the lines on the map and see what you find.

    Heathen
    After reading the Edda's, a prose of my people/ancestors, I felt enchanted by the Norse Pantheon of gods & goddesses and their sagas. Now I perceive Thor as my deity, cast the Elder Futhark Runes on the new and full moon, read the literature of my ancestors, chant Gauldr & travel to the upper and lower realms when needed.

    Amateur Mythologist
    The root of Amateur is 'to love', so in that I love the study of mythology. Comparative mythology — which seems to me to imply that all of mankind hold to the same basic ideals and hardships of life. This means that divine aspects that seem similar in mythology more than likely are based off of the same kinds of experiences put to different language and cultural context.

    — Merry Dagaz :hey:
     
         

  8. #258
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Bump, cause it can't be stressed enough that the bible is a book written by man with no ghost writing by god
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranificent View Post
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ The bible, and on the side, why it is wrong.

    In Genesis 1:1, the earth and "heaven" are created together "in the beginning," whereas according to current estimates, the earth and universe are about 4.6 and 13.7 billion years old, respectively.

    In Genesis, the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16); birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24); and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20). The order of events known from science is in each case just the opposite.

    (1:3-5, 14-19) "Let there be light"
    God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

    (1:6-8) The Firmament (Heaven)
    God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters.

    (1:11-13) "Let the earth bring forth grass"
    Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). Notice, though, that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all.
    Were plants created before or after humans?
    Does the Bible teach evolution?

    (1:14) "Let them be for signs"
    God placed the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac to predict what will happen on Earth.
    Does the bible condemn astrology?
    What the Bible says about astrology

    (1:16a) "God made the two great lights."
    "The greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light; it only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

    (1:16b) "He made the stars also."
    God spends a day making light (before making the sun and stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes 300 sextillion stars.
    When were the stars made?

    (1:17) "God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth."
    Then why is only a tiny fraction of stars visible from earth? Under the best conditions, no more than a few thousand stars are visible with the unaided eye, yet there are hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy and a hundred billion or so galaxies. Were they all created "to give light upon the earth"?

    (1:20) "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl."
    From what were the animals created?
    From what were the fowls created?

    (1:24) "Let the earth bring forth the living creature."
    Does the Bible teach evolution?

    (1:25) "God made the beast of the earth."
    Were humans created before the other animals?
    "The beast of the earth"

    (1:26a) "Let us make man in our image."
    How many gods are there?

    (1:26b) "Let them have dominion ... over all the earth."
    God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. This couldn't be true, of course, since millions of other species existed for millions of years before humans existed. But this verse is used by fundamentalist Christians to justify their mistreatment of other species and disregard for the environment. After all, they believe that God created the other species just for them, so they can do whatever they please with them.


    That's just 1 page of the bible, talk about plot holes lol

    My point is that a man wrote the bible, and god did not script it. Yopu wanna know why there's no mention of dinosaurs in the story of Noah? Cause their were no paleontologist's back then and fossils had yet to be discovered BY MAN
     
         

  9. #259
    Member NarutoDKurosaki's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    In a way no. I believe that god is just the sense of existence and that the bible is all symbolism for good character. it helps teach you to be humble, be good, and do not do bad things. But if there is a "god", then god must like to just cause pain in my life. if there is a god, then he has taken away everything i have held dear to me in my life, has put me through hell, has almost killed me several times, and has risked my health several times. After all of what I go through, i stopped believing. Now I rely on logic. You can't argue with a religious person because everything is god to them. After trillions of years, do you think god suddenly decided to make a race. And how come it was all the way back then when it wasn't documented, that god told us to write a book, and do all of these crazy things. How do we not know that jesus was a crazy man that hallucinated and led a bunch of people, and then sacrificed himself. He sacrificed himself, for what. Nothing has change, and in a way, the world has only gotten worse. I believe that there is no god, and no one created existence, and that existence was never created, but has always just existed. If you have a heard of the "god particle" it is a particle that can create matter. And every religion can't be right. And if there is a god, how come he only appeared when nothing was documented, and why hasn't he ever sent any angels since to do his bidding? Now people argue anything with god. HOw come he doesn't help us when we need him, "because god can not interfere with us."I view this as an excuse for not being able to see him. How come, on matter how much we pray, it doesn't change much. No matter how much we pray for people with cancer, or for starving children, nothing ever happens. And how come this god made all of these other planets with nothing on them, how come he didn't help the dinosaurs, how come he didnt help 9/11, how come he didn't stop the nazis. I believe people only believe in heaven and hell because they just want to believe that their life wasn't fpr nothing, and that they havnt learned so much, and done everything, just to turn off permanently. They fear that there existince is useless, so they just want to believe that they will live on. Again, hell i symbolism that if you do bad things, you get a punishment. Heaven and hell are also smbolisms of consequences in my opinion. How did people come up with heaven and hell, did god tell them again, then why doesn't god just come down and show himself, because hes busy? No, because there is no god. Humans have history on wanting to be able to rely on someone, and to serve. We SERVE our government, the knights served THEIR king, the slaves SERVED their owners. People just want to believe that something is protecting them. Did make make the terrorists attack us, no they acted on their own free will, god didnt make them do shit. God didn't make us win a war, our men did it after extensive training, god didnt give you the will to survive, your adrenaline did. God didnt choose to kill my mom, the murderer acted on his own free will. People just want to blame something, they un-knowingly want to blame a higher power just because they want to believe it was evil. A praid every night for my dad to come back home, but that didnt help anything, and the devil didnt make him do drugs, he once again, acted on his own free will. If you analyze a prayer, its just people putting their hands together, and asking for something, which only happens by coincidence. Lets say their praying for a cure to a disease, and it finally happens years later, god didnt answer their prayer, humans did enough work to come up with a cure, not god. Please explain to me how god helped make that cure in any way when it was just hard work. Then people say god is everything and everyone, no, matter is everything and everyone. God didn't make us birth, sperm cells and eggs did. God didn't create trees, evolution did. How come god let millions of people die to the nazis, how come god let our twin towers be destroyed, how come god lets the taliban kill people? With my life, people say god just wants to make me stronger, no he ****ing doesn't, Its just events that led up that caused the events, i've become more mature becomes i have to help my family ON MY OWN, not god, ME! I mean, how come no other human was resurrected, WHICH WE HAVE NO DAMN PROOF OF! HUMANS WROTE THE BIBLE, NOT GOD, HUMANS!
    http://www.provingthenegative.com/20...-god-does.html
    http://godisimaginary.com/
    He does not protect us, OUR DAMN MEN IN UNIFORM THAT DID MONTHS OF TRAINING DID, WITH THEIR OWN HARD WORK! God has never prevent evil, only the hard work of humans has. And once again, how does every religion get its ideas, from god? well then means god is a pathological liar because all of them cannot be right. Think about how many people have killed eachother over religion, why would god let that happen. If he does exist, why are we so special. Space is an endless frontier, with infinite planets and life, and how come were so special? Why you ask, because we just want to believe we're special.We commit massacres, genocide, kill his animals, and pollute his world, and how come he doesn't stop us. In the bible, if he's against abortion and killing, why doesn't he just do it himself, because he's fake. Some other proof that he's made up is that he is thought to be a man. Back then when he was created, everything had to be a man, the ones with power had to be a man, all the people with rights had to be men, all the people in the army and police had to be men, because they thought men were superior, and since god is superior, he is of coarse, a man man figment of our imagination. We also have consistent replacement of supernatural explanations of the world with natural ones. How come god let my dad beat my mom and me, because he doesn't exist. Why did god let my best friends get hit by a car and die, how come god let my grandparents die in an accident. because he doesn't exist, how come god gave me cancer, because he doesn't exist, how come all of this has happened and im only 15, because he doesn't exist, how come we have drugs that can kill us and harm others, because he doesn't exist. If he wants us to stay so faithful, i dare him to show himself and prove that everything in the bible is real, but id just be talking to a wall, because would happen, why, he doesn't exist. here is no evidence to corroborate the claim that anything supernatural exists. All explained phenomena have been found to possess natural explanations, supporting the veracity of argumentum ad ignorantiam's intrinsically fallacious nature and inability to serve as a valid justification for a conclusion. The universe appears exactly the way you would expect a universe to appear if it were *not* created by a supernatural being. Why would god let the black death roam free, because he doesn't exist. Pointing out a logical fallacy is not an "excuse".
    If a god exists, why would he hide from all humans and then punish those who don't believe in him? That is one of the most idiotic premises I have ever encountered. There is NO evidence, none at all, that a god or gods exist. Show me a photo. Just one. If your god exists in your mind, I sure hope you are holding him accountable for the wars that have been fought in his name and the death and destruction for which he is responsible. Perhaps he can explain to you why he allows children to starve to death or die of malaria in huge numbers? Please tell the reasons why Santa Claus doesn't exist. Show me absolute proof the Tooth Fairy is not real. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ. http://www.tektonics.org/guest/300proof.html. http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_o...t-exist.html.I accepted god, i prayed 5 times a day, i never asked for anything, all i did was thank him. Then he did all of that to me. I thanked him, all my friends turned on me and i became the loser at school, i thanked him, he gave me cancer, i thanked him, he let my only friends die in a car accident, i thanked him, he killed my grandparents in a car accident, i thanked him, he let my dad beat me and my mom, i thanked him, my dad got addicted to drugs, stole from us, and abandoned us, i thanked him, my mom was murdered. You thanked him, nazi slaughtered the world, you thanked him, 9/11 happened, you thanked him, god lets terrorists, extremists, and the taliban kill. Read all of this, and all of the links, and give me a civilized and a decent argument, provided with fact, truth, rationalism, and actual proof, and you shall get a cookie.
     
         

  10. #260
    Senior Member sasori345's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of God View Post
    You're simply ignorant. No need to insult you. I can tell you haven't been educated in any biology.

    Once again. To pick at your earlier statement, search Sickle cell anemia.
    If I listed all the books, videos, DVDs, etc. I've studied on both sides of this topic over the years, let alone discussions with people on all facets of the question, it would probably bore you to tears.

    Biology as a science has absolutely no need for an evolutionary framework in order to survive, and neither does any other branch of science. That's just the usual mantra evolutionists use to dupe the uninformed into believing evolution is indispensable. Biology was around way before evolution, and will continue just fine once the theory is abandoned. There is nothing in biology nor medicine that benefits from a faith belief in evolution. All processes are explainable without any recourse whatsoever to the religious theory.

    Sickle Cell Anaemia Does not Prove Evolution.As for microevolution, keep in mind that it's not creating anything new. It's just minor changes that are better called adaptations,Sickle Cell Anaemia is an extremely painful condition which is definitely not beneficial.And that are the result of information that's already contained in the genes of the organism. The evolutionists will corner you and say that numerous "micro" evolution events add up to macro evolution. They do no such thing. For "macro" evolution to occur would require massive amounts of NEW information that was not already contained in the genome. Doesn't happen. Never did. Never will. They know we have that argument so are looking desperately for any example of "new" information arising from nowhere. The one or two attempts they've come up with have been pathetic, for instance the ability of some bacteria to digest nylon.

    There are thousands of scientists who don’t believe in evolution. They’re just not as vocal or powerful a force (yet) as the evolutionary religionists. But the façade is crumbling as more and more people are recognizing that evolution has no basis in reality.
     
         
    Last edited by sasori345; 10-12-2012 at 10:22 PM.

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AP2k View Post
    There is a DIRECT correlation between the sark ages and religion. You have to be absurdly blind to think otherwise.
    I didn't say that they are not correlated, I said that one didn't cause the another. I don't think you even know the definition of the word correlation, based on what you just posted.

    I say this one more time for the sake of this topic. Believing in God allows people to take risk which is essential to our progress in this ****ing world. People that don't believe in God are not going to risk their life, because they think death ends everything. Believing in God was one of the factors that gave rise to US in 19th century. People were abandoning their families, risking and contributing with their hard work. Now you have the opposite. Period.
     
         

  12. #262
    Senior Member EjBlack's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranificent View Post
    Bump, cause it can't be stressed enough that the bible is a book written by man with no ghost writing by god
    http://www.reasonablefaith.org/scept...ism-re-visited
     
         

  13. #263
    Member 8thHokage's Avatar
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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    If I listed all the books, videos, DVDs, etc. I've studied on both sides of this topic over the years, let alone discussions with people on all facets of the question, it would probably bore you to tears.

    Biology as a science has absolutely no need for an evolutionary framework in order to survive, and neither does any other branch of science. That's just the usual mantra evolutionists use to dupe the uninformed into believing evolution is indispensable. Biology was around way before evolution, and will continue just fine once the theory is abandoned. There is nothing in biology nor medicine that benefits from a faith belief in evolution. All processes are explainable without any recourse whatsoever to the religious theory.

    Sickle Cell Anaemia Does not Prove Evolution.As for microevolution, keep in mind that it's not creating anything new. It's just minor changes that are better called adaptations,Sickle Cell Anaemia is an extremely painful condition which is definitely not beneficial.And that are the result of information that's already contained in the genes of the organism. The evolutionists will corner you and say that numerous "micro" evolution events add up to macro evolution. They do no such thing. For "macro" evolution to occur would require massive amounts of NEW information that was not already contained in the genome. Doesn't happen. Never did. Never will. They know we have that argument so are looking desperately for any example of "new" information arising from nowhere. The one or two attempts they've come up with have been pathetic, for instance the ability of some bacteria to digest nylon.

    There are thousands of scientists who don’t believe in evolution. They’re just not as vocal or powerful a force (yet) as the evolutionary religionists. But the façade is crumbling as more and more people are recognizing that evolution has no basis in reality.
    haha, im sorry, but your position is just laughable.. i feel like im watching a segment on fox news, of listening to conservative radio.. i bet you dont think global warming is happening either.. i wont argue with you anymore, it is obviously pointless, im jus glad your position on evolution is part of the minority, as it should be..
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    If I listed all the books, videos, DVDs, etc. I've studied on both sides of this topic over the years, let alone discussions with people on all facets of the question, it would probably bore you to tears.
    I would love to here who your influences are. So please name a few major ones.

    Biology as a science has absolutely no need for an evolutionary framework in order to survive, and neither does any other branch of science. That's just the usual mantra evolutionists use to dupe the uninformed into believing evolution is indispensable. Biology was around way before evolution, and will continue just fine once the theory is abandoned. There is nothing in biology nor medicine that benefits from a faith belief in evolution. All processes are explainable without any recourse whatsoever to the religious theory.
    Sorry Sasori, but that statement is just false — in fact nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolutionary theory. Please, could you name one thing about biology that you think has an explanation wholly unrelated to evolution?

    This is why I ask — if you can come up with some thing that isn't "because god made it that way" then I'll be impressed.


    Sickle Cell Anaemia Does not Prove Evolution. As for microevolution, keep in mind that it's not creating anything new. It's just minor changes that are better called adaptations,Sickle Cell Anaemia is an extremely painful condition which is definitely not beneficial. And that are the result of information that's already contained in the genes of the organism. The evolutionists will corner you and say that numerous "micro" evolution events add up to macro evolution. They do no such thing. For "macro" evolution to occur would require massive amounts of NEW information that was not already contained in the genome. Doesn't happen. Never did. Never will. They know we have that argument so are looking desperately for any example of "new" information arising from nowhere. The one or two attempts they've come up with have been pathetic, for instance the ability of some bacteria to digest nylon.
    Actually, the nylon consuming bacteria is a fantastic piece of evidence for the ability for mutations to occur in a gene pool that can be quite beneficial. Could you please tell me what about is in fact pathetic?

    There is some thing I noticed about your statement that needs to be corrected:

    - Minor changes in a gene pool can only be called "adaptations" if they are not detrimental. There for some are adaptive and some are nonadaptive.

    - Sickle Cell Anaemia is a nonadaptive mutation which generates blood cells with a less flexible & sickle like shape. The sickling occurs because of a mutation in the hemoglobin gene.

    - As to your claim that mutation does not cause an increase in information — it is hard to understand how anyone could make this claim, since anything mutations can do, mutations can undo. Some mutations add information to a genome; some subtract it. You have gotten by with this claim only by leaving the term "information" undefined, there for by any reasonable definition, increases in information have been observed to evolve. We have observed the evolution of ...

    † increased genetic variety in a population (Lenski 1995; Lenski et al. 1991)
    † increased genetic material (Alves et al. 2001; Brown et al. 1998; Hughes and Friedman 2003; Lynch and Conery 2000; Ohta 2003)
    † novel genetic material (Knox et al. 1996; Park et al. 1996)
    † novel genetically-regulated abilities (Prijambada et al. 1995)

    - According to Shannon-Weaver information theory, random noise maximizes information. This is not just playing word games. The random variation that mutations add to populations is the variation on which selection acts. Mutation alone will not cause adaptive evolution, but by eliminating nonadaptive variation, natural selection communicates information about the environment to the organism so that the organism becomes better adapted to it. Natural selection is the process by which information about the environment is transferred to an organism's genome and thus to the organism (Adami et al. 2000).

    Could you please tell me how these examples are inadequate or, to use your language, pathetic? If indeed these do not qualify as "information," then nothing about information is relevant to evolution in the first place.


    There are thousands of scientists who don’t believe in evolution. They’re just not as vocal or powerful a force (yet) as the evolutionary religionists. But the façade is crumbling as more and more people are recognizing that evolution has no basis in reality.
    I would be willing to bet that these scientists you mention, who don't accept evolution as a correct scientific theory, would agree that it is the best explanation we have for the multiple forms of life — evolutionary theory is antithetical to their religious beliefs and there for hold that there MUST be some thing else going on that we haven't figured out yet. However that's not an answer as to why evolutionary theory is NOT the best explanation for variety of life.

    A challenge I would put forth to you is this — how old is the earth and can you please give me some facts in support of your answer. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by drknght View Post
    I didn't say that they are not correlated, I said that one didn't cause the another. I don't think you even know the definition of the word correlation, based on what you just posted.

    I say this one more time for the sake of this topic. Believing in God allows people to take risk which is essential to our progress in this ****ing world. People that don't believe in God are not going to risk their life, because they think death ends everything. Believing in God was one of the factors that gave rise to US in 19th century. People were abandoning their families, risking and contributing with their hard work. Now you have the opposite. Period.
    This is simply a bad generalization of the human character of atheists, anti-theists & agnostics — might I suggest that a case can be made for those non-theists who do hold to the golden rule but find that it does not need a deity to provide motivation? Because I was one. I know many. If you watch the Atheist Experience, a public access show from TX, profess hold to to the golden rule and further explain that the preservation of life has nothing to do with a divine agent but the understanding that a group of people can help each other in all walks of life.

    Not only this but I personally know non-theists who would live and die for ideals and people simply because they believe in those ideas and those individuals who they love.

    Also — your right about Christianity being a factor in the creation of the US but a far grater influence was the Age of Enlightenment which took place from 1650—1700. If you don't know that then you simply haven't read history carefully enough.
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism Read that shit, I've researched many religions but they are the strangest case. They worship themselves as master of their own fate, and according to the values they follow, almost everyone included 99% of christians also follow their rules and don't even realize it! Wow
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    From your statements its hard to believe u have proper critical thinking skills:

    Evolution is absolutely true as it has been observed that life can adapt and change if given the chance (take ur bacterial resistance for example, simple things are easiest to change) . . . . but the real question here is just because we know that living things changes itself did they begin as simple being or spontaneously appeared? Well fossils will indicate one and certain books other. (Dont call the little evidence gathered pathetic as fossils are very rare but much more consistent than supernatural events)

    Also another thing is that if the Creator or God or whatever exists, his existence must have been created by a superior creator as things can not just simply pop into existence.

    Funny thing is that many of these Mr. Scientists did more for the human race than any group or sect but they get less trust or respect than common outspoken fanatic.
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori345 View Post
    If I listed all the books, videos, DVDs, etc. I've studied on both sides of this topic over the years, let alone discussions with people on all facets of the question, it would probably bore you to tears.

    Biology as a science has absolutely no need for an evolutionary framework in order to survive, and neither does any other branch of science. That's just the usual mantra evolutionists use to dupe the uninformed into believing evolution is indispensable. Biology was around way before evolution, and will continue just fine once the theory is abandoned. There is nothing in biology nor medicine that benefits from a faith belief in evolution. All processes are explainable without any recourse whatsoever to the religious theory.

    Sickle Cell Anaemia Does not Prove Evolution.As for microevolution, keep in mind that it's not creating anything new. It's just minor changes that are better called adaptations,Sickle Cell Anaemia is an extremely painful condition which is definitely not beneficial.And that are the result of information that's already contained in the genes of the organism. The evolutionists will corner you and say that numerous "micro" evolution events add up to macro evolution. They do no such thing. For "macro" evolution to occur would require massive amounts of NEW information that was not already contained in the genome. Doesn't happen. Never did. Never will. They know we have that argument so are looking desperately for any example of "new" information arising from nowhere. The one or two attempts they've come up with have been pathetic, for instance the ability of some bacteria to digest nylon.

    There are thousands of scientists who don’t believe in evolution. They’re just not as vocal or powerful a force (yet) as the evolutionary religionists. But the façade is crumbling as more and more people are recognizing that evolution has no basis in reality.
    Do you even know what a mutation is?
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post
    I would love to here who your influences are. So please name a few major ones.


    Sorry Sasori, but that statement is just false — in fact nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolutionary theory. Please, could you name one thing about biology that you think has an explanation wholly unrelated to evolution?

    This is why I ask — if you can come up with some thing that isn't "because god made it that way" then I'll be impressed.



    Actually, the nylon consuming bacteria is a fantastic piece of evidence for the ability for mutations to occur in a gene pool that can be quite beneficial. Could you please tell me what about is in fact pathetic?

    There is some thing I noticed about your statement that needs to be corrected:

    - Minor changes in a gene pool can only be called "adaptations" if they are not detrimental. There for some are adaptive and some are nonadaptive.

    - Sickle Cell Anaemia is a nonadaptive mutation which generates blood cells with a less flexible & sickle like shape. The sickling occurs because of a mutation in the hemoglobin gene.

    - As to your claim that mutation does not cause an increase in information — it is hard to understand how anyone could make this claim, since anything mutations can do, mutations can undo. Some mutations add information to a genome; some subtract it. You have gotten by with this claim only by leaving the term "information" undefined, there for by any reasonable definition, increases in information have been observed to evolve. We have observed the evolution of ...

    † increased genetic variety in a population (Lenski 1995; Lenski et al. 1991)
    † increased genetic material (Alves et al. 2001; Brown et al. 1998; Hughes and Friedman 2003; Lynch and Conery 2000; Ohta 2003)
    † novel genetic material (Knox et al. 1996; Park et al. 1996)
    † novel genetically-regulated abilities (Prijambada et al. 1995)

    - According to Shannon-Weaver information theory, random noise maximizes information. This is not just playing word games. The random variation that mutations add to populations is the variation on which selection acts. Mutation alone will not cause adaptive evolution, but by eliminating nonadaptive variation, natural selection communicates information about the environment to the organism so that the organism becomes better adapted to it. Natural selection is the process by which information about the environment is transferred to an organism's genome and thus to the organism (Adami et al. 2000).

    Could you please tell me how these examples are inadequate or, to use your language, pathetic? If indeed these do not qualify as "information," then nothing about information is relevant to evolution in the first place.



    I would be willing to bet that these scientists you mention, who don't accept evolution as a correct scientific theory, would agree that it is the best explanation we have for the multiple forms of life — evolutionary theory is antithetical to their religious beliefs and there for hold that there MUST be some thing else going on that we haven't figured out yet. However that's not an answer as to why evolutionary theory is NOT the best explanation for variety of life.

    A challenge I would put forth to you is this — how old is the earth and can you please give me some facts in support of your answer. Thanks.



    This is simply a bad generalization of the human character of atheists, anti-theists & agnostics — might I suggest that a case can be made for those non-theists who do hold to the golden rule but find that it does not need a deity to provide motivation? Because I was one. I know many. If you watch the Atheist Experience, a public access show from TX, profess hold to to the golden rule and further explain that the preservation of life has nothing to do with a divine agent but the understanding that a group of people can help each other in all walks of life.

    Not only this but I personally know non-theists who would live and die for ideals and people simply because they believe in those ideas and those individuals who they love.

    Also — your right about Christianity being a factor in the creation of the US but a far grater influence was the Age of Enlightenment which took place from 1650—1700. If you don't know that then you simply haven't read history carefully enough.
    I am so happy with you.
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of God View Post
    I am so happy with you.


    I was once a Fundamentalist Christian myself, I know ALL of the arguments.

    PS —Do you also except the name "Son of Man"?
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post


    I was once a Fundamentalist Christian myself, I know ALL of the arguments.

    PS —Do you also except the name "Son of Man"?
    Would be a change from the norm. Why not! :D
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    I dont have a religious faith or a belief in a god that religions may percieve however i enjoy philosophy and the way it teaches to accept the possibility and that "god" may or may not exist but in philosophy it also teaches you that god if to exist may have many context for example i believe through the understandiing of philosophy thay a god in a sense does exist but the context is completely different and that context is that god is man, the world and all life itself, we and the world and life have the power to control and manipulate what may live or die and we essentially control life so i just thought i would share this view with people in the hope to broadern peoples views and oppinons and to add a different edge to this discussion of a belief in a gods existance
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvāṇa View Post
    I dont have a religious faith or a belief in a god that religions may percieve however i enjoy philosophy and the way it teaches to accept the possibility and that "god" may or may not exist but in philosophy it also teaches you that god if to exist may have many context for example i believe through the understandiing of philosophy thay a god in a sense does exist but the context is completely different and that context is that god is man, the world and all life itself, we and the world and life have the power to control and manipulate what may live or die and we essentially control life so i just thought i would share this view with people in the hope to broadern peoples views and oppinons and to add a different edge to this discussion of a belief in a gods existance
    I respect your decision, but you say that you do not have a religious faith, when you name is nirvana, and your sig has hindu influences and budha influences, lol i find this funny. not trying to be offensive or be mean, just wanted to point that out.
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoDKurosaki View Post
    I respect your decision, but you say that you do not have a religious faith, when you name is nirvana, and your sig has hindu influences and budha influences, lol i find this funny. not trying to be offensive or be mean, just wanted to point that out.
    i have them because i like the symbolism of them as i am self studying zen philosophy and that has an origin back to india but i do not have a religious faith and not tied to any religion
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post
    This is simply a bad generalization of the human character of atheists, anti-theists & agnostics — might I suggest that a case can be made for those non-theists who do hold to the golden rule but find that it does not need a deity to provide motivation? Because I was one. I know many. If you watch the Atheist Experience, a public access show from TX, profess hold to to the golden rule and further explain that the preservation of life has nothing to do with a divine agent but the understanding that a group of people can help each other in all walks of life.

    Not only this but I personally know non-theists who would live and die for ideals and people simply because they believe in those ideas and those individuals who they love.

    Also — your right about Christianity being a factor in the creation of the US but a far grater influence was the Age of Enlightenment which took place from 1650—1700. If you don't know that then you simply haven't read history carefully enough.
    Yes, I know that. It influenced the Constitution, but the most important was the idea of libertarianism which I'm totally devoted to.
     
         

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    Re: Do you believe in God? If so why? And If not, reasons? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ImmaculateShadow View Post
    This is simply a bad generalization of the human character of atheists, anti-theists & agnostics — might I suggest that a case can be made for those non-theists who do hold to the golden rule but find that it does not need a deity to provide motivation? Because I was one. I know many. If you watch the Atheist Experience, a public access show from TX, profess hold to to the golden rule and further explain that the preservation of life has nothing to do with a divine agent but the understanding that a group of people can help each other in all walks of life.

    Not only this but I personally know non-theists who would live and die for ideals and people simply because they believe in those ideas and those individuals who they love.

    Also — your right about Christianity being a factor in the creation of the US but a far grater influence was the Age of Enlightenment which took place from 1650—1700. If you don't know that then you simply haven't read history carefully enough.
    Yes, I know that. It influenced the Constitution, but the most important was the idea of libertarianism which I'm totally devoted to.
     
         

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