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  1. #26
    Always have the last word Agent 47's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    As I believe I mentioned, it all depends on WHERE the fight takes place, yet again I can only refer to Obitos own thoughts..
    So where does this fight take place?

    You are right that he can move underground..
    Good to see you are open to logic

    About tsukiyomi you can't say it wont work without actual evidence... However, it doesn't matter..
    There is no canon evidence to it working or not working

    So he moves underground, and is not killed that way, but this still doesn't give obito any way to attack itachi. except from underground, so by doing this, that opportunity is removed as well..
    Obito goes underground, Itachi dosent know from where he will come out again. Itachi cannot maintain his susano for very long. Obito follows the strategy of tiring Itachi out. Itachi cant spam MS techniques very well.

    So I guess it is a tie then? However, my evidence is based on the manga, the proof of talent, and what the characters said themselves.
    I am willing to end this debate at a tie if you will because you dont seem to be a troll or a fanboy, otherwise i usually debate far more aggressively. On that note, i have not mentioned anything outside the manga either.

    I see people calling me a fanboy now, but in reality the evidence is in the manga. Some say obito and kakashi are better than itachi, but that is simply wrong because the manga tells us otherwise.. I totally agree that obito could avoid any attack thus avoiding battle, but then it wouldn't be a fight at all..
    We all have opinions, it dosent simply makes us a fanboy, Okay since you are so bent on it i will reread your OP and make a post on it as well. Idk about Kakashi but Obito is more or less on par with Itachi...I could turn the fact around by saying Itachi uses haxxed Susano techniques. Its his battle style using Space time whether we like it or not.

    But if you were to compare their jutsu, tools, intelligence, you would end out with Itachi above Obito, simple fact.
    Another simple fact is that a battle between the 2 will depend on far more factors that the above mentioned by you.
    but he doesn't seem to be that intelligent when it comes to actual battle
    We havent seen a lot of Obito action but the way in which he has manipulated so many S rank ninja's i would say he is far smarter than we know.And he will show it in battle too. He used some good tactics against Kakashi,Gai and Naruto

    He probably matches most of the kages, but kakashi is also over them, and Itachi is at Kakashis level, but due to the jutsu itachi has at his disposal I put him over kakashi. Kakashi even says it himself, despite Itachi being a generation over him
    ABC theories dont work with Naruto. Saying A>B and B>C so A>C wont work.
    dont go about following words of characters. There are too many plot holes there. Feats are the only reliable indicator. An example would be where Itach said Jiraiya could solo both him and Kisame. Its an obvious plot hole but its a character statement. The quality of your debate depends on your information and most of what you present is character dialogues which hardly mean much specially in case of Obito who has been lying since the time he was shown.
     
         

  2. #27
    Rising T Bogard's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Another thread created by a Itachi fanboy, nothing more
     
         

  3. #28
    Senior Member NarutoKage2's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    And to you I don't have much to say.. I'm no fanboy. I have no favorite character, and if I had to say any it would be either hiru or j-man...

    I haven't made any unrealistic comparison in this thread, and I used no invalid arguments. The fact that Obito thought for himself that Itachi could have killed him, if he knew everything about him, is enough for me. I don't say that it would be possible for Itachi to figure this out. It would be too risky..

    My overall point of this thread is to slap those idiots that started saying Obito didn't fear Itachi, that Kakashi and Obito were youngest with the MS, and that it means they are more skilled, cause it doesn't. And that I'm tired of people only taking evidence from the latest few chapters.

    Too many people like yourself can't see the forest for the trees, and I felt need to say that since it starts to annoy me that when they make a thread and you prove them otherwise, they just ignore it.
    Iys not even possible for kakashi to be more skilled with the mangekyuo than itachi so i agree there. Obitos ms skill is debatable, but overall his skill set is a perfect counter for some like itachi. Obito is an uchiha so its not like he cant counter tsukuyomi its written in the manga that those with uchiha blood can. He was already shown countering ametarasu. That leaves behind susanoo, well he can turn intangible there. He just needs to lay a hand on itachi to warp him. Itachis only hope is izanami, but with the amount of knowledge obito has he def knows about this tech too.
     
         

  4. #29
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 47 View Post
    So where does this fight take place?
    Well I haven't said where, but my point is that if it goes on in a Madaras cave (as an example) it would clearly give obito and advantage given he passes around underground. If it was deep below ground it could also give itachi the advantage, since if he could monitor all walls around him for 5 mins, obito would really lose. Now this is using "real" logic. I mean if obito is forced to go tangible somewhere with no room, he should theoretically be smashed to death from the pressure from his surroundings. It also wouldn't make sense if he was able to do that. However, in Naruto logic it might not be the case.

    Another example could be on the middle of an ocean (sounds lame yes, but who knows its a story). Itachi has water release as well, so it would benefit him. Ameterasu isn't weakened by being on water. He probably can't hold his breath for 5 minutes, so obito could still pass deep under water, but he could see him coming from anywhere. Also maybe susano can keep the water out, and he can stay under water with air enough for 5 mins. Could be possible? Can't tell. But just an example. Same if he fought gara in a desert right? Could he really escape under the sand then?

    That was my point at least.

    Obito goes underground, Itachi dosent know from where he will come out again. Itachi cannot maintain his susano for very long. Obito follows the strategy of tiring Itachi out. Itachi cant spam MS techniques very well.
    This is true, but again do you think Itachi needs to maintain his susano to avoid any attack from obito (from what we have seen)? I mean he can activate susano pretty fast. Of course if we start taking things as life force, illness, blindness into play it is a different story..

    I am willing to end this debate at a tie if you will because you dont seem to be a troll or a fanboy, otherwise i usually debate far more aggressively. On that note, i have not mentioned anything outside the manga either.
    Yeah well, my goal with this thread also was to offend some people.. Anyway the "goal" wasn't to prove that itachi beats obito in a fight. My general opinion of "versus" threads is that none can be determined by just shinobi skills. I just wanted to prove that itachi in a young age was above obito, fact... but when they are matched obito is still 10 years older than itachi, so that also gives advantage. As you see from my thread my evidence is to say how talented and feared itachi was.

    We all have opinions, it dosent simply makes us a fanboy, Okay since you are so bent on it i will reread your OP and make a post on it as well. Idk about Kakashi but Obito is more or less on par with Itachi...I could turn the fact around by saying Itachi uses haxxed Susano techniques. Its his battle style using Space time whether we like it or not.
    Yes yes, but even shinobi have pride. If Obito and Itachi were to duel eachother, I highly doubt Obito would just "run" if he was about to lose. I mean why didn't Jiraya just get summoned to the toad land (which i cant spell and wont google ). And can find many other examples. Perhaps I get flamed if I say that in obitos case pride might not count, but actually he seems determined to do anything to make his plan come true, even give up his pride.

    Another simple fact is that a battle between the 2 will depend on far more factors that the above mentioned by you.
    Yeah and as I wanted to say with it, was simply that Itachi is better than obito in most cases, just like sasori is better than granny chiyo in most cases, but that is not what determines a battle. As we agreed to end it in a tie

    We havent seen a lot of Obito action but the way in which he has manipulated so many S rank ninja's i would say he is far smarter than we know.And he will show it in battle too. He used some good tactics against Kakashi,Gai and Naruto
    Yeah he did, but gotta say that I'm surprised he didn't realize that Kakashi would send the rasengan to his dimension, caue he must have noticed the kunai scratching him, so he should have anticipated that Kakashi would know, or at least have a theory he would want to test again. So I can't really say he is such a genius as kakashi, and kakashi himself put itachi at that genius state as well.

    ABC theories dont work with Naruto. Saying A>B and B>C so A>C wont work.
    dont go about following words of characters. There are too many plot holes there. Feats are the only reliable indicator. An example would be where Itach said Jiraiya could solo both him and Kisame. Its an obvious plot hole but its a character statement. The quality of your debate depends on your information and most of what you present is character dialogues which hardly mean much specially in case of Obito who has been lying since the time he was shown.
    I've always been against that ABC theory thing. It's impossible to do that everybody knows both due to what chakra type they are, what unique abilities they have, and what kind of counter jutsus a person posses. Those who don't take that into account shouldn't even post threads, so don't know why you mention it.

    Regarding what a character says in the manga I don't think you can relate that when it comes to itachi. first of all itachi didn't want to kill jiraya even if he could, and he knew that kisame knew who jiraya is, so saying they should run didn't seem suspicious at all.

    Now you brought that example up I may suspect it is because I mentioned him as one of my favorite characters

    and frankly to be honest, the only plot hole I see in it, is that Kishi hadn't decided how strong he would actually make Kisame at the time, cause then Kisame wouldn't have just played along with itachi all along.. He was the new member though, but honestly Itachi is about 18 at this time, Kisame mid 20's.. Jiraya a sage in his 50's. Tbh he could have fought them for long in sage mode, and eventually backup could have arrived.

    We also don't know how strong itachi actually was at this moment, since we didn't see his susano till 3 years later when he fought Sasuke.
     
         

  5. #30
    Death Awaits khaydz5's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Okay lets say Itachi knew as much about obitos jutsu as konan did. All he had to do would be to stick the sword of totsuka into obito. So Obito goes intangible of course, but he can only stay like that for 5 minutes. If he tries to move, itachi follows. He has to solidify to absorb himself. He can't do anything.

    I even think tsukiomy could work, if he is intangible he still has vision in the real dimension, but it is unknown if it would work. Anyway the above idea will do the trick..

    But again, it's like I just said, what will obito do to kill itachi? It all depends on obitos move. Why do you think he never made a move on itachi?

    Anyway if you think he is stronger go read the evidence from the manga that I provided. Obito clearly feared Itachi, he even admits that if he hadn't kept a few secrets from him, he would be dead. As I said Itachi could kill him with his sword..
    lol lamest idea dude.

    so you think tobi would just walk around itachi and stays intangible for 5min then after 5mins he would be hit?LOLOLOL

    in that case give tenten a long sword or a spear then he could do the same with tobi. pierce tobi while intangible follow him wherever he'll go and after 5mins tobi will be forced to be tangible and tenten could stab him in the heart.

    nice idea, now I even think any genin can do that aswell.lol tobi's the stupidest ninja alive according to your post.
     
         

  6. #31
    Uchiha member. ixc's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Itachi outbrains Obito.
     
         

  7. #32
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    No, MS Tobi defeats Itachi..Itachi can't hit him.

    Your argument is horrible, I have seen it a few times but the people who said that were just joking..that's how ridiculous what you're saying is.

    You say since Minato did it Itachi can too? That sounds so retarded...Minato used FTG to hit him...Itachi doesn't have that, moot comparison.

    You say he can put Totsuka through him while he is intangible? Are you serious?! There is this little thing we call running to evade the sword.and he can phase into the ground.

    Itachi can't hit Obito..that's that.
     
         

  8. #33
    Senior Member natzzz's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Obito>itachi>kakashi
     
         

  9. #34
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    You cannot beat Obito without the same MS ability. He'll just disappear into the Kaumi dimension (which i find to be OP in the fact that his eye doesn't bleed/seem to cost him much chakara)

    this is evidenced by the fact that Sasuke used Amaterasu on his freakin' FACE and it did nothing. Itachi cannot touch him.
     
         

  10. #35
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    No, MS Tobi defeats Itachi..Itachi can't hit him.

    Your argument is horrible, I have seen it a few times but the people who said that were just joking..that's how ridiculous what you're saying is.

    You say since Minato did it Itachi can too? That sounds so retarded...Minato used FTG to hit him...Itachi doesn't have that, moot comparison.

    You say he can put Totsuka through him while he is intangible? Are you serious?! There is this little thing we call running to evade the sword.and he can phase into the ground.

    Itachi can't hit Obito..that's that.
    This isn't a versus thread, then it had been posted elsewhere....

    Your post is what is horrible. Go read what I actually wrote before you comment. My evidence was primary from the manga from what Obito said himself. I never once said Itachi could beat Obito, UNLESS he knew his secrets, as obito said............

    And that only FTG can hit him is so wrong as well. Just because Obito has MS doesn't mean Itachi can't get him in his genjutsu. Again you can say he is intangible, but Obito HAS to make a move at some point in that fight, you take it as if Obito is just watching while intangible, but that wont be the case... and if it was nobody could defeat obito, except you are kakashi or konan with preparations... mr. obvious... The moment he is tangible is just what itachi needs to foresee, and then he will have a chance, but I wont say it means he wins...

    About the sword I already discussed that, and of course he can just escape through the ground, but he can't keep running, he's not a coward. He has a lot of faith in himself..

    My thread was to prove that Itachi IS stronger than Obito in jutsu, intelligence and talent, AND that is what I proved. that also means he is stronger than Obito, but knowing Naruto even you should know that the weaker often wins.......

    I wanted to say it, because I see idiots everywhere saying Obito was more skilled than itachi when he awoke MS, but that is a HUGE lie. And for last fact, don't forget that Obito has 10 more years than itachi when they are to fight, if they were same age, I would dare to say Itachi could kill him, but I wont..
     
         

  11. #36
    Logical Kakashi fanboy Takos's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Itachi was all this time more powerful than Kakashi, Kakashi only recently became equal to Itachi, maybe just a little weaker.
    As for Obito, he destroys both Kakashi and Itachi. (Not at once, though)
     
         

  12. #37
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    This isn't a versus thread, then it had been posted elsewhere....

    Your post is what is horrible. Go read what I actually wrote before you comment. My evidence was primary from the manga from what Obito said himself. I never once said Itachi could beat Obito, UNLESS he knew his secrets, as obito said............
    No I'm pretty your post was piss poor....and Obito was referring to that moment not in a fight.

    And that only FTG can hit him is so wrong as well. Just because Obito has MS doesn't mean Itachi can't get him in his genjutsu. Again you can say he is intangible, but Obito HAS to make a move at some point in that fight, you take it as if Obito is just watching while intangible, but that wont be the case... and if it was nobody could defeat obito, except you are kakashi or konan with preparations... mr. obvious... The moment he is tangible is just what itachi needs to foresee, and then he will have a chance, but I wont say it means he wins...
    @bold: How do you think they are beating him now genius?

    Just because Itachi can forsee it doesn't mean he can pull of an actual attack.

    About the sword I already discussed that, and of course he can just escape through the ground, but he can't keep running, he's not a coward. He has a lot of faith in himself..
    You speak like the sword is so fast...of course he can outrun it.

    My thread was to prove that Itachi IS stronger than Obito in jutsu, intelligence and talent, AND that is what I proved. that also means he is stronger than Obito, but knowing Naruto even you should know that the weaker often wins.......

    I wanted to say it, because I see idiots everywhere saying Obito was more skilled than itachi when he awoke MS, but that is a HUGE lie. And for last fact, don't forget that Obito has 10 more years than itachi when they are to fight, if they were same age, I would dare to say Itachi could kill him, but I wont..
    Even if they were the same age the usual problem that people who take Itachi's side has to counter still comes up..
     
         

  13. #38
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Itachi > Kakashi, Obito (no rinnengan), etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    No I'm pretty your post was piss poor....and Obito was referring to that moment not in a fight.



    @bold: How do you think they are beating him now genius?

    Just because Itachi can forsee it doesn't mean he can pull of an actual attack.


    You speak like the sword is so fast...of course he can outrun it.



    Even if they were the same age the usual problem that people who take Itachi's side has to counter still comes up..
    I haven't taken side in this. And you don't even comment on what my thread is about. I said Itachi is more talented, has more skills, and has more intelligence than Obito. Instead of matching Itachi vs Obito, it would be rather fun taking it like this, to measure who is strongest:

    Itachi vs Minato
    Obito vs Minato

    Whoever does best would be the superior. If Obito just hides all fight long he wont get a single point. So who has highest chance for landing a hit on Minato? However, that would be a versus thread so no reason to debate that, cause frankly I don't care about your opinion, you obviously can't argue for anything except that Obito is intangible, or the sword isn't fast.

    Let me tell you this. No swords are fast, it is the person who wields it. Itachi with 2 eyes can easily follow all obitos movements with his Susano, which is very fast, and yeah this can be found in the manga, just see his fight with sasuke... The counter for obito to this is to go underground, as a nice guy told me, and yeah I didn't think about it, but you can't remember everything. Anyway it was never an initial part of my thread to match them in actual combat, but people just keep doing it. It is only about what I said in the start..
     
         

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