Theory: Obito did not slip through the rock using Kamui

[Uchiha Josephus]

This topic was at the center of a debate after chapter 602 came out.

Some alleged that Obito unknowingly used his Kamui ability to "phase" through the rock that he was found next to in the tunnel.

Others alleged that he simply fell away from the rock when both broke through the ceiling of the tunnel.

Well let's have another look at what Madara said:

Alrighty, so we have:

"It's a miracle that you're alive" <- Well this doesn't help anything because it would be a miracle in both cases, whether he phased through the rock or was lucky that their trajectory was slightly different.

"It's almost as if you were able to slip away from it" <- This is the main "evidence" used by those who claim he unknowingly used Kamui to "slip through" the rock. Opponents pointed out that it says "slip away" and not "through". Thus, this once comes down to opinion.

"You were lying ... next to the rock" <- This one highly favors those who believe that he got lucky in that the rock landed beside him instead of on top of him. Why? Because if he had simply slipped through the rock using Kamui, he would still have been positioned with the rock on top of him (okay, well he'd sorta be IN the rock, or rather parts of him touched by the rock would be in the other dimension) ... which would have been an interesting sight.

"But half of your body was crushed, indeed" <- Well this happened when Obito saved Kakashi. Although some have used it to provide a third explanation that both Obito and the rock fell straight down through the ceiling of the tunnel and then the rock rolled away after impact. So I just lump this one with the "lucky" theory.

So, while everything mentioned above would still leave the debate to opinion, we now have solid evidence that Obito did not gain the powers of the MS until the latest chapter, here:

As Kakashi deduced in their fight with Obito, his ability to "phase" and his ability to absorb/fire out objects are one in the same Jutsu, that is, Obito's Kamui.

Kamui is solely a MS power. He did not have MS until the traumatic events of the latest chapter. Thus, Obito did not use Kamui to phase through the rock. He got lucky and fell away from it when they broke through the ceiling of the tunnel.

And that's about it! Feel free to express opposing opinions, just back them up with some evidence (or at least sound logic). Thanks! :D

I realize that this is a very small detail that isn't a huge deal, but I've got nothing better to do at the moment

[p0002q]

I'm so in the middle on this one

My friend and I at work flip flop depending on what part of the manga were talking about lol

I want the /reveal!


My favorite theory though is that Obito activated his MS ability while being crushed!

He experienced the loss of his friends because of his own "death" - he felt the emotional damage of it.

Then while passed out, his ability triggered.


we shall see :P

[Hipster Deidara]

Who knows, but good effort

*****

[DeadManWonderLand]

its nice to know there is still people on the base who still use logic and provide explanations (: *****

[ForgottenHero23]

Summary: he could not have phased through the rock that fell on him because he needed the kamui which he didn't have at the time until kakashi killed rin.

(*****)

[WriterX]

I also like the theory that his MS activated but that would leave a small hole as to when he unlocked it.

[Uchiha Josephus]

I'm so in the middle on this one

My friend and I at work flip flop depending on what part of the manga were talking about lol

I want the /reveal!


My favorite theory though is that Obito activated his MS ability while being crushed!

He experienced the loss of his friends because of his own "death" - he felt the emotional damage of it.

Then while passed out, his ability triggered.


we shall see :P

Middle of the road is fine - things like these can never be completely proven unless stated outright in the manga, so I'm okay with that.

Who knows, but good effort

*****

Thank you! rep back at ya!

[Valen]

[Uchiha Josephus]

its nice to know there is still people on the base who still use logic and provide explanations (: *****

Summary: he could not have phased through the rock that fell on him because he needed the kamui which he didn't have at the time until kakashi killed rin.

(*****)

Thanks to you both. Rep back at you!

[Sentinelsgalore]

Doesn't Obito use kamui with his regular sharingan activated? I remember him activating the mangekyou recently to show kakashi the TRUE power of the kamui or something like that. I though Kishi was implying that Obito instinctively triggered a slight variation of Kamui, hence he was located next to the rock. Just having Obito slip by the rock is a bit of a cop out if you ask me, especially considering how Obito survived was one of the main questions. Zetsu said that Madara chose Obito, if that's the case does Madara really not know about Obito's Kamui?

[kiros23]

nice theory... i also made a short and simple theory about obito's eye that he did not use kamui when he was under the boulder...
here's the link http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=257298

[eldiego68]

now that Kishi revealed the exact time when both guys awakened the MS, my theory goes down the drain but w/e... i believed that it could have been possible for Obito to slip through the rock, and here is why (idk how to put pics on this lol so ill have to explain it all)... if you go back to the Kakashi Gaiden part of the manga, once Obito is under the boulder and Kakashi has the Sharingan, the cave collpases on top of Obito (and we get a close up of Kakashi's sharingan) and in Kakashi's perspective, Obito "died"... i believed that it was possible that Kakashi awakened the MS due to Obito's "death" and since the eyes belong to the same person, Obito would have gained MS as well, and unknowingly used it to slip through the boulder... (also notice that after Obito "dies", Kakashi has to fight some ninja to protect Rin, we get another close up of his Sharingan, and Kakashi --> faints <-- just like he did in the latest chapter when he "actually" awakens MS... anyway like i said, most of this theory got proven wrong with the last chapter although some valid points could still be true

[Uchiha Josephus]

Doesn't Obito use kamui with his regular sharingan activated? I remember him activating the mangekyou recently to show kakashi the TRUE power of the kamui or something like that. I though Kishi was implying that Obito instinctively triggered a slight variation of Kamui, hence he was located next to the rock. Just having Obito slip by the rock is a bit of a cop out if you ask me, especially considering how Obito survived was one of the main questions. Zetsu said that Madara chose Obito, if that's the case does Madara really not know about Obito's Kamui?

Fair enough, I respect your opinion.

I personally think that he always used the MS when he was phasing/absorbing. Most of the times we see it occur we don't see his what his eye looks like (which I think Kishi did on purpose so as not to spoil who he was).

[Narukarin16]

well we will never know now will we.

[zamki]

it seems that way,i was wrong too ***** btw

[Uchiha Josephus]

nice theory... i also made a short and simple theory about obito's eye that he did not use kamui when he was under the boulder...
here's the link http://www.narutobase.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=257298

Nice! I didn't go into the whole progression of the sharingan because I felt that I had already made a wall of text + rep though

now that Kishi revealed the exact time when both guys awakened the MS, my theory goes down the drain but w/e... i believed that it could have been possible for Obito to slip through the rock, and here is why (idk how to put pics on this lol so ill have to explain it all)... if you go back to the Kakashi Gaiden part of the manga, once Obito is under the boulder and Kakashi has the Sharingan, the cave collpases on top of Obito (and we get a close up of Kakashi's sharingan) and in Kakashi's perspective, Obito "died"... i believed that it was possible that Kakashi awakened the MS due to Obito's "death" and since the eyes belong to the same person, Obito would have gained MS as well, and unknowingly used it to slip through the boulder... (also notice that after Obito "dies", Kakashi has to fight some ninja to protect Rin, we get another close up of his Sharingan, and Kakashi --> faints <-- just like he did in the latest chapter when he "actually" awakens MS... anyway like i said, most of this theory got proven wrong with the last chapter although some valid points could still be true

Yeah, I had heard similar ideas too. But like you said, the latest chapter nullifies most of this. + rep for honesty

[Richieuchiha]

Maybe kakashi used kamui at that moment seeing his friend die under those boulders remember he also passed out at that moment too now that's an interesting theory for ya

[Uchiha Josephus]

Maybe kakashi used kamui at that moment seeing his friend die under those boulders remember he also passed out at that moment too now that's an interesting theory for ya

Kakashi did not pass out at the time of the collapse. He continued to fight to protect Rin before passing out (probably due to sudden sharingan strain?) and then the 4th came in and saved the day ... sort of.

Kakashi also had 2-tomoe at the time. So no MS.

[Sentinelsgalore]

Fair enough, I respect your opinion.

I personally think that he always used the MS when he was phasing/absorbing. Most of the times we see it occur we don't see his what his eye looks like (which I think Kishi did on purpose so as not to spoil who he was).

Well he was using his Kamui against Konan and we see his sharingan is normal three tomoe, I doubt that he switches back and forth from magekyou every time he used it.



This is the first time we see his mangekyou activated and he says the real power of the kamui, why would he say that if he kept on activating his mangekyou anway?

[Uchiha Josephus]

Well he was using his Kamui against Konan and we see his sharingan is normal three tomoe, I doubt that he switches back and forth from magekyou every time he used it.



This is the first time we see his mangekyou activated and he says the real power of the kamui, why would he say that if he kept on activating his mangekyou anway?

Well one could argue that once he activated MS (and thus, Kamui) he could use the powers w/o switching on the actual MS eye. Another option could be that having Hashirama's cells allow him to use it like this.

However, I still stick by what I said. I still think he'd activate it right when he needed it. It's not like it's a huge deal for him to switch back and forth.

Also, I think the reason he said he would show the "real" power of Kamui to Kakashi is simply a comparison to Kakashi's technique. In other words "mine's better than yours!" And then we see him firing sealing rods, shurikens, and Katons using Kamui.

[VariaBossX]

He slip through the rock using swirl zetsu's mayfly technique

[Uchiha Josephus]

He slip through the rock using swirl zetsu's mayfly technique

Obito had no connection with Zetsu at the time of the collapse.

Another theory that sorta goes with what you're saying is that Zetsu saved him. However, that doesn't match up with the story Madara told of Obito being found.