Infinite Tsukuyomi : lamest evil masterplan ever

[Chatte]

Senju deceive uchiha.
Senju aren't good people either

How did they deceived them?

[shri3kbat]

Madara lost everyone and everything he had. Question is, to him, what's more of a lie? The world he creates or the one he lives in where he has nothing but his arch enemy's DNA, clones of him and a cave?

[raziel777]

Senju deceive uchiha.
Senju aren't good people either

This isn't a senju=good guy/uchiha=bad guy thread. It's more like a ''madara is a loser who could not accept reality so he wants to bind everyone to his will in a fake world, how lame'' thread. Madara's ego seems pretty big, as we've seen in his fight against the kages. All he wants is his very own kingdom. I hope there is more to his plan than just infinite tsukuyomi.

[blazekev90]

These villains are so boring, like nothing about their plan equals pure evil, but rather over emotional whinny boys. They both are crying over spilled milk and instead of getting over it rather make everyone else live a lie. They should have just went on a killing rage or something more reasonable.

[raziel777]

Question is, to him, what's more of a lie?

I understand your point but Madara would know that he's failed miserably. No matter how perfect his new world seems, he would know it's all a big lie. He may deceive everyone and create his utopia but at the end of the day that's all it is : an illusion. Love, friendship, adventures, life, those words would lose their meaning along with loser and winner. And Obito/Madara would be the only ones aware of that, lonely amidst a crowd

[raziel777]

-These villains are so boring, like nothing about their plan equals pure evil, but rather over emotional whinny boys.
-They should have just went on a killing rage or something more reasonable.

I agree. Find yourselves a real evil masterplan, pseudo-villains... They have to man up and quit the whining, just give in to the dark side of the force

[Draxus]

To a lot of people a sweet dream is much better than a harsh reality. Who cares if it's a lie if all you sensations tell you its real?

On a side note, why are people acting like this is the first time they heard about this plan. What did you think a genjustu on the entire world was going to be

[aimop95]

Funny...Everyone seemed to think the eye of the moon plane was awesome before Tobi was confirmed as Obito.

[raziel777]

Funny...Everyone seemed to think the eye of the moon plane was awesome before Tobi was confirmed as Obito.

Never liked that plan, never will. Look at my one line sig. Obito and his selfish, petty motivation is just a bonus.
- to answer another NBer question : im kinda new here, i would have made this thread long ago if not.

[Retsu]

well by all means, plz explain to me a cool evil masterplan, so I can know the difference between the two

[Hanswurst]

I think the infinite tsukuyomi plan is simply nonsensical. Why?
Even the real world is mostly percepted by humans through causality (the principle of cause and effect).

Example:
Someone holds a stone in his hand. Then he opens his hand and the stone falls.
Cause: Letting go of the stone, Effect: The stone falls (gravity)

If the principle of causality is true, there is no free will, every event of the past is linked until the present.
Therefore, if you believe in free will, you can't believe in the principle of causality.
( A dilemma )

[paradox92]

These villains are so boring, like nothing about their plan equals pure evil, but rather over emotional whinny boys. They both are crying over spilled milk and instead of getting over it rather make everyone else live a lie. They should have just went on a killing rage or something more reasonable.

That's because kishi is trying to be realistic there is no such thing as a pure villain they all have a backstory and why they became evil
If you are into the cliche pure evil villain go back and watch dragonball z evil kid buu would suit your tastes

[narutonish]

Thats what happens when EMOs try to play villian xD

[MMTwister]

The infinite tsukuyomi is more or less Madaras "Matrix". As for his motives:



The Elder Son believed that power was the key to peace. I trust Madara when he says that he wants to achieve "peace" with the infinite tsukuyomi, even though it's only happening "in their heads". Everyone would still have their wills, but they would be limited to a certain extent. Like in "Matrix", the difference between illusion and reality becomes very thin.

Anyway, for all those who want to have "pure" villains, you still have Orochimaru. I personally prefer "villains" like Madara and Nagato.

[UchihaKyoruki]

That's right, for an evil plan it's lame... But who said Madara's evil? He wants a happy world without pain... Only people with very simplistic "black and white" kind of thinking would fail to see that...

[xcxcxc]

The base of this plan is a lie. Everything they'll be experiencing it's a total lie, so yeah, in a way, it's kinda lame.
From Obito's perspective you'd think, aww so sweet and stuff.
But from Madara's perspective, well, he's just a selfish character that wants to rule by force because no one in real world would accept his "kingdom". His own Uchihas weren't agreeing with him, what would you expect from the others?

This ^^

[raziel777]

well by all means, plz explain to me a cool evil masterplan, so I can know the difference between the two

Look at Orochimaru, his goals and his achievments so far. He wants to know everything and achieve immortality. He's done countless experiments, has hideout throughout the countries. Staged the 3rd hokage's death and killed kazekage. That's a true villain. Heck Pain's plan was good too : feel pain and redeem yourselves. Madara just wants to play king in a fake world.

[raziel777]

I respect Madara's means : akatsuki, tobi, yagura's control, a plan that spans throughout decades, 4th shinobi war. I just think it's all kinda lost on the end of his plan. Can't he use infinite tsukuyomi to brainwash people into being good, if he cares so much about peace ? He'd have a real world to control. His version of infinite tsukuyomi is like hard drugs, it tastes good at first but in the end it'll destroy you. The world would be happy but madara wouldnt be able to forget that it's a deception

[Edge]

What if Obito hadn't been crushed by the boulder?
What if Rin didn't die?
What if Obito said no to Madara?
What if Minato was with Kakashi and Rin?
What if Nagato refused to help Obito?

How would Madara have been able to complete the plan if any of these particulars happened differently?

Either Madara is on Aizen/Light Yagami level of prediction or his plan was just a half-a**ed and supported by the ever powerful plot-no-justsu.

I'm guessing plot-no-jutsu.

[Codex]

the Uchiha's are sensitive.

Ain't that the truth!

He's robbing you of your free will and you're fine with that ? Sorry but I like to think that my life and my future should be mine alone to determine.

What makes you so sure you have free will? If Infinite Tsukuyomi is, indeed, Matrix-like, then everybody would be oblivious to the fact that what they were experiencing was not real. In that case, yeah, I'd be fine with it. Ignorance is bliss. Of course, it's hard to say for whether that's what it would be like, and knowing you're living in a dream and being unable to do anything about it could very well be torturous.

[Xaviour]

You have to think about it from the Naruto universe's point of view.

They are plagued by war, and there is a solution, however the solution is a problem wherein you are not allowed to ever have hope that there will be no war in reality because you will be controlled by someone else. Someone belonging to your family, friends etc died because of what someone else did and there is nothing you could do to stop this from happening to someone else therefore they died for nothing.

I don't expect you to accept that as an answer, just for it to satisfy some hunger :P

[Kurogane]

I think Nagato's original plan was much better. Who's agree?

[raziel777]

I understand that they are plagued by war and all the suffering that it brings. I understand Nagato's motivation and goal, he was a victim. Obito is kinda the emo type, he's obviously overreacting... But Madara, why does he want the infinite tsukuyomi ? I really can't see him as the peace lover people are trying to make him look like. What he said about winners and losers is the key, he failed his life because of his attitude and now he wants to rule a fake world, an illusion, where he can have anything

[SixPathsOfTobi]

What do you mean by not evil ? Do you think Madara is doing it for the greater good ? That he's full of love and he wants to share it and hug the world ? Madara is being pretty selfish. No loser, no winner. That's what he wants, his perfect world. He's not a savior, nor his Obito.

Yes he is, madara is like a statist that believes force is necessary for peace (you know the sons of the rikkudou sennin)
The younger son is a voluntarist that you should put examples instead of forcing your will on someone, love etc.

[raziel777]

In that case, yeah, I'd be fine with it. Ignorance is bliss.

Why were the Matrix people trying to break out then ?? But I understand your point.
-Try to understand it from Madara and Obito's point of view. You and I would be happy and oblivious in that world but what about them ? It's their plan after all. Obito would know that Rin really is dead, that this life is a lie, no matter how real it seems. And Madara would know he's a failure in the real world.