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  1. #26
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    This topic was made last week.

    Its really, realllllly simple. Tobi simply did to Yahiko what we just saw him do to Nagato. While Yahiko was still alive and before he formed the organization, Tobi often dropped by and whispered in his ear about things, most likely forming that organization. The 3 of them were not likely together 24/7, so Tobi could easily have manipulated Yahiko without the other 2 knowing or perhaps simply with them nearby.

    And obviously, Tobi was also able to later convince Nagato to join his side after yahiko kicked the bucket and Nagato became full-on emo.
     
         

  2. #27
    XX. The Judgement Tartarus's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    Yep that's the point. When Tobito revealed to Konan, it was after he had defeated her. No reason to lie to a dying person you just killed. Her shock makes complete sense and the reveal does nothing to answer the question, unless......................
    that page was before their fight even started
     
         

  3. #28
    Outlawz Makaveli The Don's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManWonderLand View Post
    Once again not a plot hole.He did not make them form akatskui.Akatskui was already formed but the version had different ideals all obito is doing here is to push there group in a new direction.The akatskui they know today which was completely different then the one yahiko describes in that very same chapter.I seriously cannot comprehend the number of people on this base who do not know the definition of plot hole lmao
    ^^ This
     
         

  4. #29
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    As to the timeline, can anyone actually prove that this all occurred after they formed the first Akatsuki? The way I see it, this was before the first group was formed and therefore closes all plotholes. Keep in mind, I read all the posts and I'm not convinced that these old cloaks mean they already formed the group. Do you see any of their allies around that we got used to in chapter 607? No. Does wearing these cloaks confirm that the organization was already formed? NO!

    Here they are wearing the cloaks BEFORE forming the group:



    Granted, they form the group a page later but days, weeks or even months could have passed between these panels, we've all seen that before. Now this would mean that by the end of the flashback in 511, they had already met Tobi and Zetsu, but who's to say they didn't? They could have simply not mentioned the event because Yahiko told them to ignore it (despite Tobi manipulating Yahiko already). I see no significant plot hole here and I see no reason to believe that Tobi did not convince Yahiko to form the first Akatsuki.
     
         
    Last edited by Floydical; 10-24-2012 at 11:04 PM.

  5. #30
    XX. The Judgement Tartarus's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    As to the timeline, can anyone actually prove that this all occurred after they formed the first Akatsuki? The way I see it, this was before the first group was formed and therefore closes all plotholes. Keep in mind, I read all the posts and I'm not convinced that these old cloaks mean they already formed the group. Do you see any of their allies around that we got used to in chapter 607? No. Does wearing these cloaks confirm that the organization was already formed? NO!

    Here they are wearing the cloaks BEFORE forming the group:



    Granted, they form the group a page later but days, weeks or even months could have passed between these panels, we've all seen that before. Now this would mean that by the end of the flashback in 511, they had already met Tobi and Zetsu, but who's to say they didn't? They could have simply not mentioned the event because Yahiko told them to ignore it (despite Tobi manipulating Yahiko already). I see no significant plot hole here.
    oh ok, your way makes sense too. I never saw things as a plot hole but you're right there isn't any solid proof of them already forming the akatsuki.
     
         

  6. #31
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    Re: Another plothole?

    how can some of u retards not know wat a plot hole is
     
         

  7. #32
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    Yes but discounting the cloaks completely the headbands that Yahiko, Konan and Nagato are wearing say to me that they have already formed Akatsuki.

    The headbands mean they are Amegakure not Akatsuki.
     
         

  8. #33
    逆説 Gyakusetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    This topic was made last week.

    Its really, realllllly simple. Tobi simply did to Yahiko what we just saw him do to Nagato. While Yahiko was still alive and before he formed the organization, Tobi often dropped by and whispered in his ear about things, most likely forming that organization. The 3 of them were not likely together 24/7, so Tobi could easily have manipulated Yahiko without the other 2 knowing or perhaps simply with them nearby.

    And obviously, Tobi was also able to later convince Nagato to join his side after yahiko kicked the bucket and Nagato became full-on emo.
    Have to ask how likely is that, and why the subterfuge at this point of the story? These are Tobito's own flashbacks. It isn't likely that we are going to see something that demonstrates that he slowly converted Yahiko. Instead we are shown that Yahiko flatly rejected Tobito and told him to stay away. How likely is it that this will be re-visited and what is the point of dragging it out? How does that advance the storyline? Now Nagato seems intrigued I agree, but that isn't what he told Konan and once again why the subterfuge?

    Quote Originally Posted by shyarkugan View Post
    that page was before their fight even started
    You're right, I misremembered, however since it appears that your supporting the idea that he was not lieing to Konan by your other posts it really doesn't matter and the point is still valid that the reveal does nothing to answer the question of how it was possible that Tobito influenced Yahiko to form the Akatsuki.

    Quote Originally Posted by Floydical View Post
    As to the timeline, can anyone actually prove that this all occurred after they formed the first Akatsuki? The way I see it, this was before the first group was formed and therefore closes all plotholes. Keep in mind, I read all the posts and I'm not convinced that these old cloaks mean they already formed the group. Do you see any of their allies around that we got used to in chapter 607? No. Does wearing these cloaks confirm that the organization was already formed? NO!

    Here they are wearing the cloaks BEFORE forming the group:

    Granted, they form the group a page later but days, weeks or even months could have passed between these panels, we've all seen that before. Now this would mean that by the end of the flashback in 511, they had already met Tobi and Zetsu, but who's to say they didn't? They could have simply not mentioned the event because Yahiko told them to ignore it (despite Tobi manipulating Yahiko already). I see no significant plot hole here and I see no reason to believe that Tobi did not convince Yahiko to form the first Akatsuki.
    Yes, but discounting the cloaks completely the headbands that Nagato, Konan and Yahiko are wearing say to me that they have already formed Akatsuki.



    Quote Originally Posted by Odemgee View Post
    The headbands mean they are Amegakure not Akatsuki.
    Did they wear them before they formed the group? It is a statement that they are not going to submit to Hanzou and are taking back their country. That is why Hanzou considered them such a threat, they weren't his ninjas.
     
         
    Last edited by Gyakusetsu; 10-25-2012 at 05:44 AM.

  9. #34
    Member Odemgee's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    Did they wear them before they formed the group? It is a statement that they are not going to submit to Hanzou and are taking back their country. That is why Hanzou considered them such a threat, they weren't his ninjas.
    If you look at Hanzo's symbol on his helmet is the same symbol as there headbands and then look at pains headband during the time they were with Akatsuki it's the same symbol with a slash through it which is what all the Akatsuki members did to there headband showing the former association of the village they were with.
     
         

  10. #35
    逆説 Gyakusetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odemgee View Post
    If you look at Hanzo's symbol on his helmet is the same symbol as there headbands and then look at pains headband during the time they were with Akatsuki it's the same symbol with a slash through it which is what all the Akatsuki members did to there headband showing the former association of the village they were with.
    You do realize that Yahiko formed the Akatsuki and they're original methods were quite different than what it later became? The first headband slashed came from Nagato and it was just after Yahiko's death.
     
         
    Last edited by Gyakusetsu; 10-25-2012 at 05:57 AM.

  11. #36
    Member Odemgee's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    You do realize that Yahiko formed the Akatsuki and they're original methods were quite different than what it later became? The first headband slashed came from Nagato and it was just after Yahiko's death.
    I'm just saying that the symbol on there headband is the Amegakure symbol not the Akatsuki symbol. When Yahiko was alive when the Akatsuki was formed all of the members were Amegakure that's why they all had the headbands with that symbol on it not because they were Akatsuki.
     
         

  12. #37
    逆説 Gyakusetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odemgee View Post
    I'm just saying that the symbol on there headband is the Amegakure symbol not the Akatsuki symbol. When Yahiko was alive when the Akatsuki was formed all of the members were Amegakure that's why they all had the headbands with that symbol on it not because they were Akatsuki.
    It's also a statement, a means of unifying Yahiko's group, and at no previous point do we see the Ame orphans wearing it until the original Akatsuki is formed.
     
         

  13. #38
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    It's also a statement, a means of unifying Yahiko's group, and at no previous point do we see the Ame orphans wearing it until the original Akatsuki is formed.
    Akatsuki was formed to bring peace to Amegakure the symbol on there headbands is to show there pride in there village which the four vertical lines is the symbol of their village which is the same reason Hanzo has the same symbol on his helmet because he was the leader of the village at the time. Hanzo felt that the Akatsuki which were all Amegakure were becoming to powerful and were a risk of over throwing his rule so he planned to destroy the Akatsuki which led to Yahiko's death. Yahiko didnt hate the village he just didnt like the direction it was going so they possible starting wearing them to show their pride in the village which was the symbol showing you were a ninja of Amegakure which was the symbol worn before the Akatsuki was even formed.
     
         

  14. #39
    Senior Member NarutoKage2's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odemgee View Post
    Akatsuki was formed to bring peace to Amegakure the symbol on there headbands is to show there pride in there village which the four vertical lines is the symbol of their village which is the same reason Hanzo has the same symbol on his helmet because he was the leader of the village at the time. Hanzo felt that the Akatsuki which were all Amegakure were becoming to powerful and were a risk of over throwing his rule so he planned to destroy the Akatsuki which led to Yahiko's death. Yahiko didnt hate the village he just didnt like the direction it was going so they possible starting wearing them to show their pride in the village which was the symbol showing you were a ninja of Amegakure which was the symbol worn before the Akatsuki was even formed.
    The movement started by yahiko which had hidden rain ninja in it was akatsuki. At the most, you can say that obito later manipulated and changed it, however the latest chapter does nothing to suggest obito had anything to do with the original organization like he told konan. However madara might have kept tabs on nagato so maybe he was the one who somehow spurred yahiko.
     
         

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    Re: Another plothole?

    Oh yay! Another "Another plot hole" thread

    The original incarnation was already established when Tobi approached them.
     
         
    Last edited by Draxus; 10-25-2012 at 07:28 AM.

  16. #41
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Not everything has to be revealed on the manga. Not everything has to be perfect. Can't they talk shit once in a while?

    Tobi said to Konan "because you will die I wll tell you the truth...I am Madara".

    Oops, Plot hole !
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Another plothole?

    yea you guys are assuming just because those 3 thave "cloaks" they are now part of Akatsuki.
    Akatsuki isn't created yet in those Flashbacks, the reveal will be later.

    Akatsuki is an organization when it jumps from those 3 people to all the rest.
     
         

  18. #43
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by NarutoKage2 View Post
    The movement started by yahiko which had hidden rain ninja in it was akatsuki. At the most, you can say that obito later manipulated and changed it, however the latest chapter does nothing to suggest obito had anything to do with the original organization like he told konan. However madara might have kept tabs on nagato so maybe he was the one who somehow spurred yahiko.
    Nothing suggest that the Akatsuki was even formed yet at the time they met Obito in the last chapter either. Just because there wear cloaks doesn't mean anything. There in a village that rains quite often so that is more likely the reason they are wearing the cloaks. The headbands they are wearing doesn't mean that they wear Akatsuki at the time that's that just the symbol of Amegakure. Yahiko lead Akatsuki goal was to aid Nagato in bring peace to the world because or his rinnegan, and the only person that know anything about the full abilities of the rinnegan at that time was Obito that is why Nagato was so shocked when Obito mentioned that his mission was to correctly lead the one that awakens the rinnegan because at that point in time the rinnegan was seen as some type of urban legend. All we know about the beginning of the Akatsuki was that it was formed during the Third Ninja War which is the same war Obito got crushed in and learned everything from Madra and went on his mission to complete Madara's plan. There is no solid evidence that the Akatsuki was formed before that meeting in the last manga only assumptions.
     
         

  19. #44
    逆説 Gyakusetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odemgee View Post
    Nothing suggest that the Akatsuki was even formed yet at the time they met Obito in the last chapter either. Just because there wear cloaks doesn't mean anything. There in a village that rains quite often so that is more likely the reason they are wearing the cloaks. The headbands they are wearing doesn't mean that they wear Akatsuki at the time that's that just the symbol of Amegakure. Yahiko lead Akatsuki goal was to aid Nagato in bring peace to the world because or his rinnegan, and the only person that know anything about the full abilities of the rinnegan at that time was Obito that is why Nagato was so shocked when Obito mentioned that his mission was to correctly lead the one that awakens the rinnegan because at that point in time the rinnegan was seen as some type of urban legend. All we know about the beginning of the Akatsuki was that it was formed during the Third Ninja War which is the same war Obito got crushed in and learned everything from Madra and went on his mission to complete Madara's plan. There is no solid evidence that the Akatsuki was formed before that meeting in the last manga only assumptions.
    , but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.
     
         

  20. #45
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    Re: Another plothole?

    OT: she just remembered maybe, can you really remember 10 years maybe 15 years ago at an instant especially after both your friends died?

    IMO:Who really gives a $h^t..

    Why do people care..this reminds me of that kid from family guy named Niel from the AV club who tries to find spock's coffee cup in the background in star trek pausing every 2 seconds.
     
         
    Last edited by Hippy; 10-25-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  21. #46
    逆説 Gyakusetsu's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hippy View Post
    OT: she just remembered maybe, can you really remember 10 years maybe 15 years ago at an instant especially after both your friends died?

    IMO:Who really gives a $h^t..

    Why do people care..this reminds me of that kid from family guy named Niel from the AV club who tries to find spock's coffee cup in the background in star trek pausing every 2 seconds.
    It's a discussion forum and its fun. There are plenty of forum topics I don't care about but my indifference extends to not reading them and not commenting. You should give it a try.
     
         

  22. #47
    Member Sentinelsgalore's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    , but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.
    Regardless of whether akatsuki was set up before or after Obito approached them, Obito was spurring on all three of them to complete the moons eye plan. Therefore, Konana should have known that Obito approached them, its not something you easily forget.
     
         

  23. #48
    Kimblee Vs. Kisame Floydical's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gyakusetsu View Post
    , but aren't you also assuming that Obito wasn't lying to Konan? If I apply your level of scrutiny then there really isn't any credible evidence that Obito wasn't. He could have just been messing with her head. We are both proceeding in this argument with the assumption that he wasn't, so don't try to claim that your not guilty of the same. Look, it's clear you won't be convinced. I have equally not been convinced by your reasoning given what has been revealed in the manga. People can look at both sides of our speculation if they don't think Tobi was making it up and make up their own mind.
    I have to admit that the manga does seem to imply that this meeting took place after the original Akatsuki was formed, but it is simply not confirmed for reasons already stated. I still feel that its possible the organization was formed perhaps a year later, but again we can't confirm it either way.

    As to the original topic on hand, its possible that Konan figured out that Tobi was lying on both parts, after he said it, and was simply shocked initially. She probably realized that for what he said to be true, he must have met and talked to Yahiko at least once before that first meeting. This would have obviously been illogical since Yahiko acted the way he did when Obito first met them, there was no way they met before. So again, I think we can still go either way whether Obito actually spurred Yahiko to form the organization or not, but when it comes to Konan's shock, it was likely because she was trying to comprehend a way for what Tobi stated to be true; then soon realized he had to be lying.

    My only last concern to defend my earlier post is why Obito would flat out lie about this? We know he was only half lying about the Rinnegan, since Madara did actually give Nagato the Rinnegan, but if Yahiko actually did form Akatsuki, than this is a total lie on Obito's part. I would just like to believe that there is at least some truth to this statement as well, considering the level of truth to the Rinnegan statement and situation in which he stated these things.
     
         
    Last edited by Floydical; 10-25-2012 at 05:39 PM.

  24. #49
    火の意志なめるな TheWillofFire's Avatar
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Tobi wasn't lying to Konan
    He was really mocking her with what he thinks he "helped" create peace. But Konan is simply shocked because she knows there is no way they ended up being pawns for Madara.
     
         

  25. #50
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    Re: Another plothole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinelsgalore View Post


    Why was Konana shocked that Tobi said he encouraged Yahiko to form akatsuki when he approached all three of them to start akatsuki?

    Good catch. Of course, I don't know whether this was an issue with the translation or if Kishi honestly forgot about what Konan and Obito talked about. That chapter was less than two years ago, so it's weird that he's forgotten about it.

    So yes, if this isn't a translation error it's definitely a plot hole. It's relatively small compared to some of the other things that have happened recently, but it's still a real plot hole.
     
         

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