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  1. #101
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB Kakuzu View Post
    I agree with all of this except 4! If he stands on water than yes, however if the wall has no direct contact with him then he doesn't face electrocution
    Well, alright, I will give you that one, he won't get electrocuted if he isn't touching the water it self, good point
     
         

  2. #102
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    I admit you have changed my perspective
    I think Kisame wins by hype O.o
    But you state good points
     
         

  3. #103
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Ive seen this debate before and the real answer is Kisame rapes Kakuzu. Only thing Kakuzu has that is worth anything is lightening attacks which are made out of chakara which Kisame/Samahada absorbs.
    P.S. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/470/16 for reference
     
         
    Last edited by DeViliShChild; 10-27-2012 at 01:07 AM.

  4. #104
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    Ive seen this debate before and the real answer is Kisame rapes Kakuzu. Only thing Kakuzu has that is worth anything is lightening attacks which are made out of chakara which Kisame/Samahada absorbs.
    P.S. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/470/16 for reference
    Can you back up how Kisame would stomp Kakuzu?
     
         

  5. #105
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    Can you back up how Kisame would stomp Kakuzu?
    Kisame fuses and completely drains Kakuzu of all chakara. Kakuzu now immobilized due to no chakara and is consequently stomped by Kisames foot
     
         

  6. #106
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    Kisame fuses and completely drains Kakuzu of all chakara. Kakuzu now immobilized due to no chakara and is consequently stomped by Kisames foot
    EVEN IF that were to happen, Kakuzu still has 4 more seperate chakra sources. That statement is self-defeating.

    2. Look carefully at the Swords characteristics in the manga It eats alot of chakra for people who have huge amount already.

    Example: Kisame vs Guy compare to Kisame vs Killer Bee.
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    EVEN IF that were to happen, Kakuzu still has 4 more seperate chakra sources. That statement is self-defeating.

    2. Look carefully at the Swords characteristics in the manga It eats alot of chakra for people who have huge amount already.

    Example: Kisame vs Guy compare to Kisame vs Killer Bee.
    1. They are not separate sources of chakara, they allow him to use the heart's chakra nature. If you believe otherwise, please link me to something in the manga that says otherwise.

    2. The sword is said to eat chakara, and with Bee's fight we can tell that it is about 6 tails worth of chakra. After absorbing it goes to Kisame or can be stored in Samahada until needed.

    U
     
         

  8. #108
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Ah, so you finally come up with it? Cool. I always saw Kakuzu as the superior combattant here for these reasons:

    - He has 5elements, while Kisame only has one element. While his suiton is greatly overwhelming, since it's a suiton base it can't kill Kakuzu especially when he is protected by the doton domu(doton>suiton)
    - Kisame is alone and he will be facing 5opponents(Kakuzu and his masks) and Kisame doesn't have enough of speed feats. In the contrary, he usually takes damages(whether he wants it or not), so facing 5opponents, i really doubt he can handle all that. Even Kakashi with the sharingan had difficulties to keep up, and we all know how fast he is, we all know the advantage of precognition that Sharingan gives, so there is no way that Kisame could keep up

    - You may say that Samehada could absorb attacks which is true, but until when? And could Samehada really absorbs attacks coming from 5directions? To absorb chakra, kisame usually puts Samehada infront of him to protect himself and absorb it, so if Kakuzu attacks from 5different directions, how does he protect himself with Samehada, and avoid damage? And that is when i forget the fact that manga has already shown that Samehada doesn't like fire, so the overwhelming katon jutsu Kakuzu has shown would cause great troubles to Samehada

    - So if they fight outside water, Kisame has absolute no chance and i didn't even mentioned the fact that Kakuzu has 5hearts, so Kisame has to kill him 5times. Now Kisame will most likely use his water dome, but could he really use it in same extent than against Killer-Bee? I doubt simply because remember that he absorbed Hachibis chakra before that moment and it's the reason why it was that big. But still, even if he manages to do that, Kakuzu only has to do his best to get out of it, because inside it, Kisame will be at his advantage.

    Kakuzu having 5bodies is greatly advantaging him here in this situation. With some of his bodies, he can create diversions to feint Kisame, and find his way through. With his fuuton attack for example, it has enough power to blow away a great part of Kisames waterdome. At that moment, he has opportunities to go outside of it

    Fighting outside the dome and Kisame is screwed like i've said. Even if we imagine a scenario where he loses one of his heart, he can play death and catch Kisame by surprise. I'm not sure if Kisame knows Kakuzus secret, so he could be surprised

    So overall yes i agree, Kakuzu is stronger than Kisame
     
         

  9. #109
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    Ah, so you finally come up with it? Cool. I always saw Kakuzu as the superior combattant here for these reasons:

    - He has 5elements, while Kisame only has one element. While his suiton is greatly overwhelming, since it's a suiton base it can't kill Kakuzu especially when he is protected by the doton domu(doton>suiton)
    - Kisame is alone and he will be facing 5opponents(Kakuzu and his masks) and Kisame doesn't have enough of speed feats. In the contrary, he usually takes damages(whether he wants it or not), so facing 5opponents, i really doubt he can handle all that. Even Kakashi with the sharingan had difficulties to keep up, and we all know how fast he is, we all know the advantage of precognition that Sharingan gives, so there is no way that Kisame could keep up

    - You may say that Samehada could absorb attacks which is true, but until when? And could Samehada really absorbs attacks coming from 5directions? To absorb chakra, kisame usually puts Samehada infront of him to protect himself and absorb it, so if Kakuzu attacks from 5different directions, how does he protect himself with Samehada, and avoid damage? And that is when i forget the fact that manga has already shown that Samehada doesn't like fire, so the overwhelming katon jutsu Kakuzu has shown would cause great troubles to Samehada

    - So if they fight outside water, Kisame has absolute no chance and i didn't even mentioned the fact that Kakuzu has 5hearts, so Kisame has to kill him 5times. Now Kisame will most likely use his water dome, but could he really use it in same extent than against Killer-Bee? I doubt simply because remember that he absorbed Hachibis chakra before that moment and it's the reason why it was that big. But still, even if he manages to do that, Kakuzu only has to do his best to get out of it, because inside it, Kisame will be at his advantage.

    Kakuzu having 5bodies is greatly advantaging him here in this situation. With some of his bodies, he can create diversions to feint Kisame, and find his way through. With his fuuton attack for example, it has enough power to blow away a great part of Kisames waterdome. At that moment, he has opportunities to go outside of it

    Fighting outside the dome and Kisame is screwed like i've said. Even if we imagine a scenario where he loses one of his heart, he can play death and catch Kisame by surprise. I'm not sure if Kisame knows Kakuzus secret, so he could be surprised

    So overall yes i agree, Kakuzu is stronger than Kisame

    How does Kakuzu defeat Kisame when he fuses with Samahada and creates a giant water dome?
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Good thread, but I wouldn't say Kakuzu > Kisame hands down, or even vice versa for that matter. Based on their showings in the manga, it's clear to me that Kisame and Kakuzu are roughly on the same level. And when two combatants are so close in power, a fight between them could really go either way depending on the match stipulations. So, this isn't going to be a "stomp" for either one. Both will have to work for a victory.
     
         

  11. #111
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Indeed, I agree, but it wouldn't be a stomp. They're extremely close in terms of raw power...
     
         

  12. #112
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    1. They are not separate sources of chakara, they allow him to use the heart's chakra nature. If you believe otherwise, please link me to something in the manga that says otherwise.

    2. The sword is said to eat chakara, and with Bee's fight we can tell that it is about 6 tails worth of chakra. After absorbing it goes to Kisame or can be stored in Samahada until needed.

    U
    1.

    They are seperate, notice that Kakuzu is DEAD in that scene and they were still active. How is a dead body going use chakra to bring them back to him?

    Also in the anime (Which I don't have a problem using this as an example): they fought back using their element style to fight through/ back to the owner.

    2. I say Again notice him taking chakra from Bee then look at Guy's fights . That swords specfically eats alot of chakra when it comes to jinjuriki's then of someone normal/balance chakra.
     
         

  13. #113
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    1.

    They are seperate, notice that Kakuzu is DEAD in that scene and they were still active. How is a dead body going use chakra to bring them back to him?

    Also in the anime (Which I don't have a problem using this as an example): they fought back using their element style to fight through/ back to the owner.

    2. I say Again notice him taking chakra from Bee then look at Guy's fights . That swords specfically eats alot of chakra when it comes to jinjuriki's then of someone normal/balance chakra.

    1. He killed Kakuzu's Earth heart. He can no longer use earth elemental. Im so confused what that has to do with them all having their own chakara. It's all Kakuzu's strung together.

    2. I have no idea what you mean with this. The sword eats chakara. period. Gai doesn't use Chakra to fight. Kakuzu does. So what does gai have to do with this
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    BRILLIANT as always
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    I think kisame would take this there was a body of water near by. anddddd great thread!
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    this really doesnt even seem like a fair fight for kisame. even with everything you said. he just wont win because kakazu has 2 ways to counter his water. both fire/wind and lightning. if he guys stuck in Kisame's Water Prison, kakazu would just use his lightning to hurt both him and kisame. its not really a fair battle.

    kisames only option is to face kakazu without his water style trying to steal as much chakra from kakazu as he can before he releases his masks. that way, kakazus hardening body technique will be useless sinse he steals charka instead or trying to cut his opponent.

    but thats all i got. i would say kakazu wins mid-low dif.
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    [QUOTEeViliShChild;8892090]1. He killed Kakuzu's Earth heart.(Prove it--In Fact this statement is irreverent to this discussion, I don't know why you brought that out.). He can no longer use earth elemental (Again No idea why you are bringing this up and yet that doesn't prove that the mask was Earth.) . Im so confused what that has to do with them all having their own chakara. It's all Kakuzu's strung together (The way you are putting it is like Kakuzu chakra link is the same as Kankuro: Absorb the main body and he can't link chakra anymore which is incorrect. These monsters are stored with someone elses heart and chakra nature, thus having 4 extra.)
     
         

  18. #118
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Cool thread ***** for hard work

    to make it short unless kakazu destroys samehade kisame would win hands down , since all of the 5 hearts containers are moving using chakara, absorb that chakara and they are mobilized. xD my opinion
     
         

  19. #119
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Great Thread Bro. But I'm going to side with Kisame on this one.

    One thing that I think most people have forgotten is that Kakuzu can't choose which one of his masks gets killed. If even one of his masks dies than it could be one of Kakuzu's vital masks like Fire or Earth. If either Fire or Wind is taken than he would not be able to combine them for his powerful elemental attacks. If Earth is the one that dies then he would not be able to defend against physical and Kenjutsu attacks leaving him at the mercy of Kisame.

    Kakuzu's threads would be a problem but the threads themselves can't be hardened just the limbs they are attached to. Multiple attacks from the threads won't be a too much of a problem since Samehada has shown to have a mind of its own and to be able to dodge and attack independently. Samehada has also shown the ability to extend its hilt and utilizing Samehada as a flail will allow him to cut the threads without being too close. Multiple attacks from If I remember correctly only one of the masks has shown to be able to fly (Wind Mask) in the manga.
     
         

  20. #120
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    very hard to decide but i'm going to go with kakauzu due to his eath and lightning release and kakashi stated that water techniques are not strong enough to hold against air fire combo's.
     
         

  21. #121
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    very good thread as always, really like these vs thread, full of detail...i must say they both have 50/50, but i give it to kakuzu with his five element attack, but if kisame make waterdom and water shark bullet in start than kisame win....

    make more of these thread often..:D
     
         

  22. #122
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    [QUOTE=EjBlack;8892868]
    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    1. He killed Kakuzu's Earth heart.(Prove it--In Fact this statement is irreverent to this discussion, I don't know why you brought that out.). He can no longer use earth elemental (Again No idea why you are bringing this up and yet that doesn't prove that the mask was Earth.) . Im so confused what that has to do with them all having their own chakara. It's all Kakuzu's strung together (The way you are putting it is like Kakuzu chakra link is the same as Kankuro: Absorb the main body and he can't link chakra anymore which is incorrect. These monsters are stored with someone elses heart and chakra nature, thus having 4 extra.)

    First and foremost, try not to quote someone and then write inside of that quote. It is very confusing to discern what you are trying to say.

    1. Well lets see, anytime Kakuzu was attacked he turned to Stone with earth element. After Kakashi hit him, he never used Earth element. - Proven.
    2. Yes it does, all of Kakuzu's abilities are from other people now (except his stitching)

    3. Yes they all have their own Chakra nature but not their own chakra!
    For example Sasori's puppet of the Third Kazakage has all his abilities and his chakara stored in it from the time he died.
    Kakuzu just gets the ability to use the nature of the chakara.
     
         

  23. #123
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    I agree that samehada is no preta path but it did absorb most of Killer Bee's chakra which is far higher than anything Kakuzu has. Wind release pressure damage is a pressure based attacks which is why it lacks lethality and can be tanked by someone as durable as Kisame. Remember that Ino-Shika-Cho weren't damaged and neither was Kakashi? Kisame has shown time and time again that he can tank those types of attacks that deal blunt/pressure damage. Even Gai's Hirudora wasn't strong enough to kill him and Kisame still had the strength to over power Yamato's mokuton and survive.

    True but Killer Bee's lightning didn't do much against Kisame. I'm not sure to what extent samehada can absorb incoming attacks but it did suck Killer Bee and the Hachibi dry in a small amount of time so I don't think a technique that Kakashi was able to counter has enough chakra to overwhelm samehada. Also in the war when Kakuzu was revived, Tenten was dodging gian pretty easily or this might just be a filler scene since I only remember it from the Anime.

    Does doton domu also harden the black threads or only Kakuzu's body? Also I just checked the data book scores and Kakuzu only has a 4 compared to Kisame's 5 in physical strength. I have no doubt Kisame is stronger than Kakuzu but you may still think the data book is wrong. If you do, I might need to find scans of Kisame praising his superlative strength and other strength feats and see how they stack up against Kakuzu. Choji never even used his pills or BM when Kakuzu blocked that so it isn't the greatest strength feat. Kisame was able to pull samehada out of the toad mouth trap so this proves he is very strong.

    This is true but I think if Kisame can absorb Kakuzu's chakra for long enough, he won't be able to maintain it. This manga panel explains how in a battle lasting just 3 chapters, samehada had successfully absorbed pretty much all of the Hachibi's chakra!!!

    Can Kisame fuse with samehada while fighting on the ground?

    Kisame can use water clones to guard his back.

    I don't want to sound like someone who repeats the same thing over and over again so I will refuse to comment but it has everything to do with Kisame outlasting Kakuzu. Although if Kisame is forced to use too many clones, he may run out of chakra faster than Kakuzu.

    Depends on the location, starting distance and knowledge. It really can go either way.
    I have to concur on this point, Kakuzu could mainly use this as a means of dissipating massive waves of water sent towards him by Kisame (elemental neutrality between water and wind mean they cancel out). However Wind Release Pressure Damage has been shown to fuse with his Katon Zukko, to reach an even higher magnitude, the lethal nature of fire builds on the weakness of his Wind and to an extent nullifies it. Kisame could only hope to counter these two techniques using his largest scale Water Techniques, where these two techniques would inevitably cancel out eachother.

    Samehada has shown a certain degree of profiency in its absorption capabilites but highly lacks in defending against higher scale attacks and particularly Katon Release techniques. Samehada would absorb Gian on a normal basis, but Kakuzu seems to use his masks simulatenosuly rather than sepereately in such a way, all the angles are difficult to cover. Kisame usually defends against Ninjutsu using Samehada as a chakra absorption seal, but from 360 degree offensives i highly doubt he could use this to much effect.

    You could argue that absorbing chakra from one of the assaults could compensate for the damage dealt through the others by attempting to utilize Samehada's Cellular regeneration, but there are a few looming flaws with this. First of all, the healing is in direct proportion to the amount of chakra in absorbed, so being hit by the other three elemental attacks would inevitably tip the balance and leave Kisame crippled in one way or another. Samehada has to be alive for Kisame to have this ability, the sword itself has shown to be slightly tender/easy to pierce and damage so being hit by three other large scale attacks, one of which is a high scale Katon techniques would prove to be fatal.

    The 3rd flaw with his regeneration is the magnitude of the attacks of Kakuzu's projectiles, all of them except Gian (and possibly the earth offensive) wouldn't be absorbed completely so whatever way Kisame looks at it he's screwed, at best he'll be cut badly from the wind, burnt severely and crushed by the earth offensive.

    Kakuzu's Doton Domu would most likely harden his threads as well, his entire body constitutes of dark threads, so they would probably count towards his bodily composition. Kisame might have the slight edge in raw strength but Kakuzu's unique body structure provides him with versatility to counter this with. If Kakuzu did feel outmatched in a CQC, then he could use his superior speed and agility (Samehada weighs down Kisame) to counter act this and make it a battle of range, where only he can land hits while Kisame pursues.

    Kakuzu has shown extremely agility and can even latch onto higher ground in the terrain whilst in his V2 Transformation. This could be used to attack Kisame from above with the extension of his threads, unexpected elemental blasts to catch Kisame off guard and even render his close range chakra absorption trait useless.

    I believe Kisame can fuse with Samehada whilst on the ground, he still maintains the ability to breath and so it wouldn't be a problem. However, he gains the speed advantage in water so its logical to use his Water Dome in conjunction with his fusion.

    I'm surprised you haven't made more use of the Mizu Bunshins, they have 1/10th of the user's original chakra, so they're considerably powerful but then again one high scale blast would eradicate all of them. They would also individually be far outclassed by Kakuzu's masks, with the ability of flight meaning it becomes a one-sided battle between the clones and the masks.
     
         

  24. #124
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    NegativeKnight How does Kakuzu beat Kisame if he fuses with Samahada?
     
         

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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindow View Post
    Arguing for Kisame…




    Contingencies:
    Kakuzu is a dangerous opponent for anyone to fair against. It is undeniable. He has, at his disposal, the necessary tools to conjure up a win and an intellect that provides him with practical approaches. Kakuzu’s abilities are heavily situated on ninjutsu, and taijutsu. He speed is fairly great as well as his stamina, both are vital and continuingly exercised in his battles from what has been seen. Kakuzu is undoubtedly a shinobi of lethality, whose defeats require someone with either more power to them or utilizing tools perspicaciously. Kisame is the former. He possesses the raw strength that augments his abilities to bijū levels, which compared to others, is seemingly titanic.
    _____________________________

    Doton Domu:
    As much praise as this receives, Kakuzu’s Doton armor is not impervious. It is based off the material properties of diamond, which is earth. As opposed to what people think, diamond can be smashed rather easily. It is just some believed that it is the hardest substance on Earth, which cannot be broken. That is a misconception.

    Diamond cannot be scratched, but since it is brittle, it is susceptible to being broken by items that have enough force between them (i.e. a hammer, water, stone, etc.). This is because of the structure weakness of a diamond. While it is a hard material, its structural imperfections allow something with a greater force to break it like glass; ultimately leaving it useless. Moreover; it is chakra founded, so it is definitely absorbable by Samehada.


    Suirō Sameodori:
    Potentially decisive, this jutsu can be used to effectively damage and remove Kakuzu’s Doton from him, for reasons listed above. By pressuring Kakuzu, Kisame can forcefully restrict Kakuzu’s Doton armor. The range of this jutsu is massive and devastating to its recipient, for the fusion between Samehada and Kisame provide a seemingly endless amount of opportunities to slay Kakuzu. Additionally; this fusion amplifies Kisame’s killing potential, for the jutsu allows him to further control his movements making him much harder to kill. Some may claim that a raiton technique would ultimately render this jutsu useless, but the fusion of Samehada enables Kisame to utilize its absorbent principals, which makes seemingly all ninjutsu fruitless in the scope of this technique. Basically; if Kisame uses the water dome then he is most likely fused with Samehada and If Kakuzu orders his raiton mask to shoot raiton into the dome Kakuzu will be the only one getting hurt by his own technique while Kisame’s body simply feeds on the raiton.

    Suiton Daikōdan:
    Daikōdan by itself can entirely neutralize the effects of Kakuzu’s Doton. This is jutsu varies from the original in that it is able to absorb the chakra from an opponent's technique and in turn, use that chakra to grow larger and more powerful. Thus; the stronger the opponents technique is, the stronger this technique will become.

    _____________________________

    Samehada:
    Due to its absorbent abilities this alone can negate any and all of Kakuzu’s jutsu. In the event that some argue that it would not absorb Katon based techniques, Kisame has been shown to make it to following his commands compellingly regardless of Samehada desires.

    Jiongu:
    Kakuzu has to control his threads with chakra. And these threads are used for attacking and stealing his opponent’s hearts. Samehada can rip though these threads, and absorb the chakra, potentially leaving Kakuzu weaken. Kisame can then easily proceed to attack the weaken Kakuzu who may or may not have attempted to steal Kisame's heart, but was weaken by Kisame's chakra absorbing ability.

    _____________________________

    Conclusion:
    The amplifications that sheathe Kisame are sufficient to allow him to overcome Kakuzu the majority of the time. Ninjutsu wielders do awful against Kisame, for he possesses the necessary tools to suppress them without much prevalence from the enemy. Kakuzu's style seemingly consists of overwhelming with his Ninjutsu. Unfortunately, against a foe that possesses the ability to absorb chakra - and in rather large amounts as well. This handy ability of his should render Kakuzu's Ninjutsu ineffective, but since Kakuzu already knows that, I doubt he'd release his masks and make his extra four lives walking targets like that. Instead, he'd probably opt to engage in close combat in Kisame and hope to capture him with his jiongu and finish him off quickly. Kisame has the advantage in range, stamina and the ability to steal his opponent's chakra and use it to replenish his own and whatnot, as well as have Samehada get in the way of an attack. Furthermore; Kisame is also surprisingly strong, so it's very possible that Kisame can simply just break the threads.

    Kakuzu's options are limited. What makes him so dangerous is his ability to use three powerful attacks using three different elements, making him almost impossible to counter. With the presence of Samehada, firing attacks from the masks will only give Kisame an advantage since he can use the stolen chakra for regeneration. It's possible that Kakuzu can simply counter this by having them attack from different directions, but Kisame can counter this by fusing with his sword. Furthermore, the masks aren't particularly fast or strong, and they can be very easily picked off. Kisame has even a effective counter against Kakuzu's Doton armor. Kakuzu is simply a bad match up for Kisame.
    Doton Domu is hardly the perfect defense, but it has shown to make Kakuzu highly resistant to attacks. Direct explosions do nothing against it, Chouji's own effort to harm Kakuzu was easily countered by this jutsu. Whilst Diamond is not completely impervious, Kisame lacks the tools to harm this defense. His raw strength is outclassed by the jutsu and the force of waves is easily dissipated by the Earth Technique (elemental advantage).

    I was wondering why a single person didn't raise the point about Doton domu possessing the theoretical risk to be absorbed by Sameahda. Kakuzu has shown himself to be a keen analyst in battle, once he realizes Samehada is absorbing his Doton Domu, he could reserve it for defensive purposes against Kisame's Water Ninjutsu. His age and experience is also another key thing, being 91 years of age he has possibly come across the sword before, heard about it or at least seen chakra draining abilities similar to it.

    Samehada Fusion mode is a devastating thing indeed, but as with any jutsu it has exploitable flaws. If used without a Water Dome, then Kisame gains the weakness to fire from Samehada and possibly losing his regenerative abilities due to him and Samehada now sharing one chakra supply. When used in conjunction with his Water Dome, then Kakuzu's separate masks act as a sufficient counter.

    How Kakuzu counters Kisame's Water Dome Prison: His Kisame's dome has proven itself to be a troublesome and almost impossible jutsu for most shinobi to counter effectively. However it has shown one slight but exploitable weakness which Kakuzu's arsenal meets the criteria for. His ability to split into 5 seperate bodies, with each of his hearts manifesting their own body which are capable of flight. Through the use of this ability alone, they would be out of the range of the prison. Even then, if they were caught they could travel in separate directions, with Kisame undoubtedly going after Kakuzu. Once the other hearts escape the prison and Kakuzu "dies" due to a deprivation of oxygen, the hearts have shown the ability to reintegrate back into his body and revive him after he's dead.

    Killer Bee's tactic to exploit a key weakness in Kisame's Water Prison + Samehada Fusion Mode



    How Kakuzu counters Kisame's Great Shark Water Bullet: Kisame's attack is a guided projectile which he maintains through manually controlling it towards the target. Kakuzu could momentarily defend with a high scale elemental blast and then proceed to hit Kisame with one of his other masks without the fear of Samehada absorbing it.

    Even then, Kakuzu could defend against it with a stall tactic with one of his hearts, and proceed to either kill Samehada who is unattended or attack Kisame while he is immobile.


    I highly doubt Kisame whilst fused with Samehada can absorb Ninjutsu through his skin, i agree probably on a minuscule scale but nothing exceeding Itachi's Great Fire Ball Technique in magnitude.

    Furthermore, Kisame forcing Samehada to absorb Kakuzu's Fire and Wind infusion may prove to be physically impossible due to not being able to eat and process an attack of that magnitude.

    On a final note, while i agree Kisame could cut through Kakuzu's threads, he could easily be overwhelmed by the amount of offensives provided by each individual/bunch of thread(s). Kakuzu's v1 Transformation mode was shown to have extremely fast threads (able to catch Kakashi, Chouji and Ino all simultaneously), which could be used to hold down Kisame long enough to achieve a direct hit with his merged masks.

    Kakuzu restraining Team 10 and Kakashi following up with a lethal Katon Technique


    *DevilishChakra, this is also a counter towards your question
     
         
    Last edited by Negative Knight; 10-31-2012 at 11:16 AM.

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