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  1. #101
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by KGB Kakuzu View Post
    I agree with all of this except 4! If he stands on water than yes, however if the wall has no direct contact with him then he doesn't face electrocution
    Well, alright, I will give you that one, he won't get electrocuted if he isn't touching the water it self, good point
     
         

  2. #102
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    I admit you have changed my perspective
    I think Kisame wins by hype O.o
    But you state good points
     
         

  3. #103
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Ive seen this debate before and the real answer is Kisame rapes Kakuzu. Only thing Kakuzu has that is worth anything is lightening attacks which are made out of chakara which Kisame/Samahada absorbs.
    P.S. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/470/16 for reference
     
         
    Last edited by DeViliShChild; 10-27-2012 at 02:07 AM.

  4. #104
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    Ive seen this debate before and the real answer is Kisame rapes Kakuzu. Only thing Kakuzu has that is worth anything is lightening attacks which are made out of chakara which Kisame/Samahada absorbs.
    P.S. http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/470/16 for reference
    Can you back up how Kisame would stomp Kakuzu?
     
         

  5. #105
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    Can you back up how Kisame would stomp Kakuzu?
    Kisame fuses and completely drains Kakuzu of all chakara. Kakuzu now immobilized due to no chakara and is consequently stomped by Kisames foot
     
         

  6. #106
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    Kisame fuses and completely drains Kakuzu of all chakara. Kakuzu now immobilized due to no chakara and is consequently stomped by Kisames foot
    EVEN IF that were to happen, Kakuzu still has 4 more seperate chakra sources. That statement is self-defeating.

    2. Look carefully at the Swords characteristics in the manga It eats alot of chakra for people who have huge amount already.

    Example: Kisame vs Guy compare to Kisame vs Killer Bee.
     
         

  7. #107
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    EVEN IF that were to happen, Kakuzu still has 4 more seperate chakra sources. That statement is self-defeating.

    2. Look carefully at the Swords characteristics in the manga It eats alot of chakra for people who have huge amount already.

    Example: Kisame vs Guy compare to Kisame vs Killer Bee.
    1. They are not separate sources of chakara, they allow him to use the heart's chakra nature. If you believe otherwise, please link me to something in the manga that says otherwise.

    2. The sword is said to eat chakara, and with Bee's fight we can tell that it is about 6 tails worth of chakra. After absorbing it goes to Kisame or can be stored in Samahada until needed.

    U
     
         

  8. #108
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Ah, so you finally come up with it? Cool. I always saw Kakuzu as the superior combattant here for these reasons:

    - He has 5elements, while Kisame only has one element. While his suiton is greatly overwhelming, since it's a suiton base it can't kill Kakuzu especially when he is protected by the doton domu(doton>suiton)
    - Kisame is alone and he will be facing 5opponents(Kakuzu and his masks) and Kisame doesn't have enough of speed feats. In the contrary, he usually takes damages(whether he wants it or not), so facing 5opponents, i really doubt he can handle all that. Even Kakashi with the sharingan had difficulties to keep up, and we all know how fast he is, we all know the advantage of precognition that Sharingan gives, so there is no way that Kisame could keep up

    - You may say that Samehada could absorb attacks which is true, but until when? And could Samehada really absorbs attacks coming from 5directions? To absorb chakra, kisame usually puts Samehada infront of him to protect himself and absorb it, so if Kakuzu attacks from 5different directions, how does he protect himself with Samehada, and avoid damage? And that is when i forget the fact that manga has already shown that Samehada doesn't like fire, so the overwhelming katon jutsu Kakuzu has shown would cause great troubles to Samehada

    - So if they fight outside water, Kisame has absolute no chance and i didn't even mentioned the fact that Kakuzu has 5hearts, so Kisame has to kill him 5times. Now Kisame will most likely use his water dome, but could he really use it in same extent than against Killer-Bee? I doubt simply because remember that he absorbed Hachibis chakra before that moment and it's the reason why it was that big. But still, even if he manages to do that, Kakuzu only has to do his best to get out of it, because inside it, Kisame will be at his advantage.

    Kakuzu having 5bodies is greatly advantaging him here in this situation. With some of his bodies, he can create diversions to feint Kisame, and find his way through. With his fuuton attack for example, it has enough power to blow away a great part of Kisames waterdome. At that moment, he has opportunities to go outside of it

    Fighting outside the dome and Kisame is screwed like i've said. Even if we imagine a scenario where he loses one of his heart, he can play death and catch Kisame by surprise. I'm not sure if Kisame knows Kakuzus secret, so he could be surprised

    So overall yes i agree, Kakuzu is stronger than Kisame
     
         

  9. #109
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    Ah, so you finally come up with it? Cool. I always saw Kakuzu as the superior combattant here for these reasons:

    - He has 5elements, while Kisame only has one element. While his suiton is greatly overwhelming, since it's a suiton base it can't kill Kakuzu especially when he is protected by the doton domu(doton>suiton)
    - Kisame is alone and he will be facing 5opponents(Kakuzu and his masks) and Kisame doesn't have enough of speed feats. In the contrary, he usually takes damages(whether he wants it or not), so facing 5opponents, i really doubt he can handle all that. Even Kakashi with the sharingan had difficulties to keep up, and we all know how fast he is, we all know the advantage of precognition that Sharingan gives, so there is no way that Kisame could keep up

    - You may say that Samehada could absorb attacks which is true, but until when? And could Samehada really absorbs attacks coming from 5directions? To absorb chakra, kisame usually puts Samehada infront of him to protect himself and absorb it, so if Kakuzu attacks from 5different directions, how does he protect himself with Samehada, and avoid damage? And that is when i forget the fact that manga has already shown that Samehada doesn't like fire, so the overwhelming katon jutsu Kakuzu has shown would cause great troubles to Samehada

    - So if they fight outside water, Kisame has absolute no chance and i didn't even mentioned the fact that Kakuzu has 5hearts, so Kisame has to kill him 5times. Now Kisame will most likely use his water dome, but could he really use it in same extent than against Killer-Bee? I doubt simply because remember that he absorbed Hachibis chakra before that moment and it's the reason why it was that big. But still, even if he manages to do that, Kakuzu only has to do his best to get out of it, because inside it, Kisame will be at his advantage.

    Kakuzu having 5bodies is greatly advantaging him here in this situation. With some of his bodies, he can create diversions to feint Kisame, and find his way through. With his fuuton attack for example, it has enough power to blow away a great part of Kisames waterdome. At that moment, he has opportunities to go outside of it

    Fighting outside the dome and Kisame is screwed like i've said. Even if we imagine a scenario where he loses one of his heart, he can play death and catch Kisame by surprise. I'm not sure if Kisame knows Kakuzus secret, so he could be surprised

    So overall yes i agree, Kakuzu is stronger than Kisame

    How does Kakuzu defeat Kisame when he fuses with Samahada and creates a giant water dome?
     
         

  10. #110
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Good thread, but I wouldn't say Kakuzu > Kisame hands down, or even vice versa for that matter. Based on their showings in the manga, it's clear to me that Kisame and Kakuzu are roughly on the same level. And when two combatants are so close in power, a fight between them could really go either way depending on the match stipulations. So, this isn't going to be a "stomp" for either one. Both will have to work for a victory.
     
         

  11. #111
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Indeed, I agree, but it wouldn't be a stomp. They're extremely close in terms of raw power...
     
         

  12. #112
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by DeViliShChild View Post
    1. They are not separate sources of chakara, they allow him to use the heart's chakra nature. If you believe otherwise, please link me to something in the manga that says otherwise.

    2. The sword is said to eat chakara, and with Bee's fight we can tell that it is about 6 tails worth of chakra. After absorbing it goes to Kisame or can be stored in Samahada until needed.

    U
    1.

    They are seperate, notice that Kakuzu is DEAD in that scene and they were still active. How is a dead body going use chakra to bring them back to him?

    Also in the anime (Which I don't have a problem using this as an example): they fought back using their element style to fight through/ back to the owner.

    2. I say Again notice him taking chakra from Bee then look at Guy's fights . That swords specfically eats alot of chakra when it comes to jinjuriki's then of someone normal/balance chakra.
     
         

  13. #113
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    1.

    They are seperate, notice that Kakuzu is DEAD in that scene and they were still active. How is a dead body going use chakra to bring them back to him?

    Also in the anime (Which I don't have a problem using this as an example): they fought back using their element style to fight through/ back to the owner.

    2. I say Again notice him taking chakra from Bee then look at Guy's fights . That swords specfically eats alot of chakra when it comes to jinjuriki's then of someone normal/balance chakra.

    1. He killed Kakuzu's Earth heart. He can no longer use earth elemental. Im so confused what that has to do with them all having their own chakara. It's all Kakuzu's strung together.

    2. I have no idea what you mean with this. The sword eats chakara. period. Gai doesn't use Chakra to fight. Kakuzu does. So what does gai have to do with this
     
         

  14. #114
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    BRILLIANT as always
     
         

  15. #115
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    I think kisame would take this there was a body of water near by. anddddd great thread!
     
         

  16. #116
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    this really doesnt even seem like a fair fight for kisame. even with everything you said. he just wont win because kakazu has 2 ways to counter his water. both fire/wind and lightning. if he guys stuck in Kisame's Water Prison, kakazu would just use his lightning to hurt both him and kisame. its not really a fair battle.

    kisames only option is to face kakazu without his water style trying to steal as much chakra from kakazu as he can before he releases his masks. that way, kakazus hardening body technique will be useless sinse he steals charka instead or trying to cut his opponent.

    but thats all i got. i would say kakazu wins mid-low dif.
     
         

  17. #117
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    [QUOTEeViliShChild;8892090]1. He killed Kakuzu's Earth heart.(Prove it--In Fact this statement is irreverent to this discussion, I don't know why you brought that out.). He can no longer use earth elemental (Again No idea why you are bringing this up and yet that doesn't prove that the mask was Earth.) . Im so confused what that has to do with them all having their own chakara. It's all Kakuzu's strung together (The way you are putting it is like Kakuzu chakra link is the same as Kankuro: Absorb the main body and he can't link chakra anymore which is incorrect. These monsters are stored with someone elses heart and chakra nature, thus having 4 extra.)
     
         

  18. #118
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Cool thread ***** for hard work

    to make it short unless kakazu destroys samehade kisame would win hands down , since all of the 5 hearts containers are moving using chakara, absorb that chakara and they are mobilized. xD my opinion
     
         

  19. #119
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Great Thread Bro. But I'm going to side with Kisame on this one.

    One thing that I think most people have forgotten is that Kakuzu can't choose which one of his masks gets killed. If even one of his masks dies than it could be one of Kakuzu's vital masks like Fire or Earth. If either Fire or Wind is taken than he would not be able to combine them for his powerful elemental attacks. If Earth is the one that dies then he would not be able to defend against physical and Kenjutsu attacks leaving him at the mercy of Kisame.

    Kakuzu's threads would be a problem but the threads themselves can't be hardened just the limbs they are attached to. Multiple attacks from the threads won't be a too much of a problem since Samehada has shown to have a mind of its own and to be able to dodge and attack independently. Samehada has also shown the ability to extend its hilt and utilizing Samehada as a flail will allow him to cut the threads without being too close. Multiple attacks from If I remember correctly only one of the masks has shown to be able to fly (Wind Mask) in the manga.
     
         

  20. #120
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    very hard to decide but i'm going to go with kakauzu due to his eath and lightning release and kakashi stated that water techniques are not strong enough to hold against air fire combo's.
     
         

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