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  1. #141
    Senior Member EjBlack's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    ..no they haven't. Inside his water dome Kakuzu's chakra is constantly being drained, Considering Kisame had the ability to change the entire jutsu's mechanics to support him and suck its chakra, it's far from a stretch.

    Since you focused on an extremely miniscule afterthought in my post it's pretty clear you don't have any realistic counters of Kakuzu's to water dome or daikodan or similar either.


    Like?
    For Paragraph 1:

    "That is exactly why Kakuzu escaping the Prison would be essential, in my previous post i've already explained how that can be achieved. Kisame going for Kakuzu while the masks escape will inevitable result in Kakuzu's death, that i agree with.

    However once the Water Dome is dispelled and the other hearts escape the prison and Kakuzu "dies" due to a deprivation of oxygen, the hearts have shown the ability to reintegrate back into his body and revive him after he's dead.

    Either way, Kakuzu will survive with a few hearts intact so he can continue with the fight."

    2. I already explained.

    3. Kisimes Swords doesn't absorb as much as he does fighting a jinjuriki then Guy and Suijetsu. Although their chakra was drained it didn't stop them from continuing the fight. Same would be if fighting Kakuzu, who has 4 other sources.

    4. No ones said it was strong like kakuzu I believe he only mentions it being distracting and good for pressuring.

    5. Dome is bound to be dispelled after his finishes Kakuzu off ONCE (meaning one death) But that is it for that jutsu.
     
         

  2. #142
    Senior Member Joki's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    Daikodan was countered in my previous post, the Water Dome also (he escapes and revives himself with reintergration). After that i shifted the focus onto the beginning stages of the fight.

    Disregard those two techniques for now as i've countered them already, counter the new arguments i raised after that.



    Kakuzu, the underdog is always more fun
    And I countered your "counters", so what exactly are your "counters" that should get me to drop the argument? Because whatever they are, obviously I wasn't convinced by them...and you didn't exactly counter my post either.

    Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained, nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame. So how exactly does he plan that?
    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    For Paragraph 1:

    "That is exactly why Kakuzu escaping the Prison would be essential, in my previous post i've already explained how that can be achieved. Kisame going for Kakuzu while the masks escape will inevitable result in Kakuzu's death, that i agree with.

    However once the Water Dome is dispelled and the other hearts escape the prison and Kakuzu "dies" due to a deprivation of oxygen, the hearts have shown the ability to reintegrate back into his body and revive him after he's dead.

    Either way, Kakuzu will survive with a few hearts intact so he can continue with the fight."

    2. I already explained.

    3. Kisimes Swords doesn't absorb as much as he does fighting a jinjuriki then Guy and Suijetsu. Although their chakra was drained it didn't stop them from continuing the fight. Same would be if fighting Kakuzu, who has 4 other sources.

    4. No ones said it was strong like kakuzu I believe he only mentions it being distracting and good for pressuring.

    5. Dome is bound to be dispelled after his finishes Kakuzu off ONCE (meaning one death) But that is it for that jutsu.
    Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu? The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. The masks aren't overcoming 1000 sharks of Kisame's arsenal if they can even get to Kakuzu's body in the first place. And what happens when Kisame does destroy masks? Kakuzu doesn't get to keep every single one of his elemental jutsu indefinitely as long as he has 1 heart.

    Yeah...you guys can say "Oh I already countered that" as much as you want but when you didn't legitimately counter it or I can't recall, it doesn't hold much water. I need specifics
     
         

  3. #143
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    And I countered your "counters", so what exactly are your "counters" that should get me to drop the argument? Because whatever they are, obviously I wasn't convinced by them...and you didn't exactly counter my post either.

    Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained, nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame. So how exactly does he plan that?


    Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu? The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. The masks aren't overcoming 1000 sharks of Kisame's arsenal if they can even get to Kakuzu's body in the first place. And what happens when Kisame does destroy masks? Kakuzu doesn't get to keep every single one of his elemental jutsu indefinitely as long as he has 1 heart.

    Yeah...you guys can say "Oh I already countered that" as much as you want but when you didn't legitimately counter it or I can't recall, it doesn't hold much water. I need specifics
    Alright i understand what you're saying this, but let's be logical. A fight happens in a chronological order of beginning, middle and end. You're too focused on the ending stages whilst completely disregarding what transpires at the beginning, it could very well decide the nature of a fight.

    So counter my points that i raised and then once we've established the beginning of the fight, we'll lead back onto your ending points of the Water Dome.
     
         

  4. #144
    Senior Member Joki's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    Alright i understand what you're saying this, but let's be logical. A fight happens in a chronological order of beginning, middle and end. You're too focused on the ending stages whilst completely disregarding what transpires at the beginning, it could very well decide the nature of a fight.

    So counter my points that i raised and then once we've established the beginning of the fight, we'll lead back onto your ending points of the Water Dome.
    Seemingly you're avoiding actually countering water dome and daikodan. Fortunately Kisame's very capable and it's highly in character for Kisame to use it in the beginning of the fight like he did vs Bee.

    I'm not debating the match chronologically though, I want to know what your counters to those techniques are. Kisame for whatever reason randomly won't use his main arsenal of techniques just because you want Kakuzu to win?
     
         

  5. #145
    Senior Member EjBlack's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    And I countered your "counters", so what exactly are your "counters" that should get me to drop the argument? Because whatever they are, obviously I wasn't convinced by them...and you didn't exactly counter my post either.

    Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained , nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame. So how exactly does he plan that?


    Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu? The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. The masks aren't overcoming 1000 sharks of Kisame's arsenal if they can even get to Kakuzu's body in the first place. And what happens when Kisame does destroy masks? Kakuzu doesn't get to keep every single one of his elemental jutsu indefinitely as long as he has 1 heart.

    Yeah...you guys can say "Oh I already countered that" as much as you want but when you didn't legitimately counter it or I can't recall, it doesn't hold much water. I need specifics
    "Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained ": I agree

    " , nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame." Prove it that Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra and won't last

    "Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu?"He won't ignore but the monster prove they are strong enough to save and recover Kakuzu.
    "The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. ": [b]Underestimating them much? They will react if they are in danger, they do whatever it's necessary to wait for the right chance to save Kakuzu. I would dissagree with my own statement if Kisame has full knowledge on Kakuzu's technique.[b/]


    The rest of your statement sounds like Kisame has full knowledge on his techs and is planing ahead. That is not going to work in this thread.
     
         

  6. #146
    Senior Member EjBlack's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    And I countered your "counters", so what exactly are your "counters" that should get me to drop the argument? Because whatever they are, obviously I wasn't convinced by them...and you didn't exactly counter my post either.

    Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained , nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame. So how exactly does he plan that?


    Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu? The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. The masks aren't overcoming 1000 sharks of Kisame's arsenal if they can even get to Kakuzu's body in the first place. And what happens when Kisame does destroy masks? Kakuzu doesn't get to keep every single one of his elemental jutsu indefinitely as long as he has 1 heart.

    Yeah...you guys can say "Oh I already countered that" as much as you want but when you didn't legitimately counter it or I can't recall, it doesn't hold much water. I need specifics
    "Kakuzu won't be able to escape when Kisame's following him and his chakra is constantly being drained ": I agree

    " , nor is Kakuzu exactly a chakra monster who can last in a fight vs Kisame." Prove it that Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra and won't last

    "Why would he ignore the masks that would still be moving around after he kills Kakuzu?"He won't ignore but the monster prove they are strong enough to save and recover Kakuzu.
    "The water from water dome doesn't just disappear, a lake is always a lake. ": Underestimating them much? They will react if they are in danger, they do whatever it's necessary to wait for the right chance to save Kakuzu. I would dissagree with my own statement if Kisame has full knowledge on Kakuzu's technique.


    The rest of your statement sounds like Kisame has full knowledge on his techs and is planing ahead. That is not going to work in this thread.
     
         

  7. #147
    Senior Member Joki's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    Prove it that Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra and won't last
    Ok, if he had anywhere near Bee's chakra, even Bee's entire chakra arsenal was drained to the point that he was going to faint in seconds, and he's one of the biggest chakra monsters in the series. Do you have proof that Kakuzu does have that much chakra because that's what you're supposed to prove?

    He won't ignore but the monster prove they are strong enough to save and recover Kakuzu.
    A single mask that fodder jutsus have destroyed by themselves, with 1 jutsu, will be able to get past a giant water dome and high kage level shinobi who drains chakra and excels at absorbing ninjutsu and has an insane arsenal with high firepower? I don't see any masks getting past him especially when they're only masks so you'll have to try harder
    [b]Underestimating them much? They will react if they are in danger, they do whatever it's necessary to wait for the right chance to save Kakuzu. I would dissagree with my own statement if Kisame has full knowledge on Kakuzu's technique.[b/]
    I don't think I'm going to take you seriously if we have to argue Kisame vs Kakuzu's masks and his masks alone. How am I underestimating them? They can do whatever they want, they're not getting past Kisame, not by a long shot.

    In fact, he can easily make 3 water clones, each who managed to catch Lee, Tenten and Neji in a water prison at 3% power to handle the masks. How will they traverse through a giant water dome, 3 10% Kisame clones and potentially hundreds of sharks, with their 1 single jutsu each that will get absorbed?

    The rest of your statement sounds like Kisame has full knowledge on his techs and is planing ahead. That is not going to work in this thread.
    Oh? Like what specifically?

    While Kisame doesn't have full knowledge by any means they're fellow Akatsuki members and are bound to have some form of knowledge on each other. But Kisame's not a guy who needs knowledge when his attacks are on a completely different scale and perfect for destroying Kakuzu. And the same goes on the reverse, you can't act like Kakuzu has full knowledge.
     
         

  8. #148
    Senior Member raju22's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Kisame fused with Samehadha absorbs everything inside water dome, this is the most idiotic comment i hear from Kisame defenders, it was shown clearly in the manga that he can not do that.
     
         

  9. #149
    Senior Member EjBlack's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    Ok, if he had anywhere near Bee's chakra, even Bee's entire chakra arsenal was drained to the point that he was going to faint in seconds, and he's one of the biggest chakra monsters in the series. Do you have proof that Kakuzu does have that much chakra because that's what you're supposed to prove?

    No, you didn't prove that Kakuzu doesn't have good chakra. You only prove that Bee has better chakra then Kakuzu. And actually Bee had no problem swiming and escaping. It was when Kisame got close and drained him out.
    Sabu was still able talk the the Water Dome and his chakra wasn't completely done http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/472 (someone with lack of feats to able to do that), In fact he escape by himself because Bee gave him time to http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/472/7.. Putting Kakuzu in that situation is the same by feats he shown better chakra then Sabu. Kakuzu will analyze the situation and command his other hearts to separate on four different locations and escape while Kisame finish off Kakuzu. From there the hearts come back to the owner.



    A single mask that fodder jutsus have destroyed by themselves (lolwut: I'm not gonna waste my time replying to that part), with 1 jutsu, will be able to get past a giant water dome and high kage level shinobi who drains chakra and excels at absorbing ninjutsu and has an insane arsenal with high firepower? I don't see any masks getting past him especially when they're only masks so you'll have to try harder

    no one is applying that they are fighting inside the dome, Kakuzu is smart enough to notice he is draining chakra. Like I said the best thing to do is use the same strategy Bee did and Kakuzu has intellengent feats to do it.


    I don't think I'm going to take you seriously if we have to argue Kisame vs Kakuzu's masks and his masks alone. How am I underestimating them? They can do whatever they want, they're not getting past Kisame, not by a long shot.

    [b] Again I have NEVER applied that they are going to fight Kisame, Their main focus is to SAVE KAKUZU. LIKE this:




    This is what I meant about underestimating them, You are underestimating that they won't save kakuzu.





    Oh? Like what specifically?

    While Kisame doesn't have full knowledge by any means they're fellow Akatsuki members and are bound to have some form of knowledge on each other. But Kisame's not a guy who needs knowledge when his attacks are on a completely different scale and perfect for destroying Kakuzu. And the same goes on the reverse, you can't act like Kakuzu has full knowledge.
    I agree, they both have knowledge but not on their personal techs. Even Kisame wanted to know how the Zombie Duo died http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/353/11.
    Where have I act/stated that Kakuzu has full knowledge?
     
         

  10. #150
    Negative Knight's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joki View Post
    Seemingly you're avoiding actually countering water dome and daikodan. Fortunately Kisame's very capable and it's highly in character for Kisame to use it in the beginning of the fight like he did vs Bee.

    I'm not debating the match chronologically though, I want to know what your counters to those techniques are. Kisame for whatever reason randomly won't use his main arsenal of techniques just because you want Kakuzu to win?
    Not at all.

    1) I've countered Suiton Daikodan with Kakuzu being hit after fuelling the jutsu, dying and then allowing his hearts to reintergrate into his body. This doesn't however come without any damage to Kisame who leaves himself open to be hit directly by all the other hearts

    2) I've countered the Water Dome. In summary Kakuzu and his masks travel in different directions, 4 of them escape and if Kakuzu is the target then Kisame will go for him. After Kisame dispels the Water Dome, the reintegrate back into his body to revive him but not before.

    Now for the love of god, counter my points :rofl:
     
         
    Last edited by Negative Knight; 10-28-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  11. #151
    Member edo x edo's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Hey sorry for the late answer...

    There's a bit of a problem with kakuzu having 5 hearts and several elements, but remember, only one heart has an element superior to water, while the rest is either the same or weaker than water.
    Knowing this, kisame can make muliple clones, with which he can split up and attack several hearts at the same time when kakuzu splits. His chakra level should be enough for this to be a possible plan.
    His water sharks should be able to take down at least fire, when trapped in water dome. If this isn't enough, kisame's chakra absorbing shark(used against guy) would be superior to all attacks exept earth armor + taijutsu, which he would most likely beat with kenjutsu and taijutsu. The only jutsu in kakuzu arsenal that could nullify kisame's water, is most likely fire/wind merging, but that would be wulnerable to more than one attack at the time, something kisame would probably quickly realise and focus on getting rid of it.

    The best chance for kakuzu would be to use a decoy, ex one or two of his hearts that could be dangerous, and then hit him from the back with a quick strike of lightning or earth-taijutsu. the sheer scale of kisame's attacks are just too big i think, so he needs to use stealth to get in a blow, and even if he succeeds, kisames regeneration is extremely fast so one blow most likely isn't enough.
     
         

  12. #152
    Negative Knight's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by edo x edo View Post
    Hey sorry for the late answer...

    There's a bit of a problem with kakuzu having 5 hearts and several elements, but remember, only one heart has an element superior to water, while the rest is either the same or weaker than water.
    Knowing this, kisame can make muliple clones, with which he can split up and attack several hearts at the same time when kakuzu splits. His chakra level should be enough for this to be a possible plan.
    His water sharks should be able to take down at least fire, when trapped in water dome. If this isn't enough, kisame's chakra absorbing shark(used against guy) would be superior to all attacks exept earth armor + taijutsu, which he would most likely beat with kenjutsu and taijutsu. The only jutsu in kakuzu arsenal that could nullify kisame's water, is most likely fire/wind merging, but that would be wulnerable to more than one attack at the time, something kisame would probably quickly realise and focus on getting rid of it.

    The best chance for kakuzu would be to use a decoy, ex one or two of his hearts that could be dangerous, and then hit him from the back with a quick strike of lightning or earth-taijutsu. the sheer scale of kisame's attacks are just too big i think, so he needs to use stealth to get in a blow, and even if he succeeds, kisames regeneration is extremely fast so one blow most likely isn't enough.
    Some interesting tactics you raise but Kakuzu has shown to deal with clones very efficiently even without his masks, with them he would be slightly overkill with as little as one blast from his Fuuton (Wind) Mask destroying each and every one of them.

    Kakuzu dealing with multiple clones from Naruto with relative Ease


    Kakuzu's masks are also capable of flight so it becomes a very, very one sided fight between Kisame's clones vs Kakuzu Masks. They bombard the grounded clones with elemental attacks (baring in mind they don't have their own Samehadas) and are subsequnetly destroyed.

    The Flight ability also renders a large portion of their arsenal useless.

    However i am curious to here your counters to the points i raised in this post - My Recently Raised Points
     
         

  13. #153
    ラフォーレ Lindow's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    @Negative Knight.

    Your initial points are agreeable, but your later ones are not.

    I agree on Kakuzu’s intellect; however it did not provide him with a counter to a simple feint. Regardless of how intelligent one is combat wise, (unless you’re Itachi) you are prone to possible mistakes. With Kakuzu, this was shown. Furthermore; Samehada showed no problem absorbing a katon based technique and the magnitude was not severely underwhelming. The point of displaying Itachi’s katon technique is too negate the argument that Samehada cannot absorb katon based abilities, not the scope, which does not subtract from its absorbent principals whatsoever — a technique’s dimensions entail its capacity, and as long as it does not exceed Samehada’s capacity it can be absorbed.

    Kisame is not Kakashi, Ino, or Choji. The threads are chakra based, so an eclipse of these threads would harm only Kakuzu, for as long as Samehada is presented — Kisame can subtract his chakra capacity weakening him; thus making the battle becomes a game of longevity. Furthermore; Kakuzu’s threads are not swifter than an upgraded Bee, which Kisame was able to keep up rather fairly (not without problem). Under the impression that you read it correctly; the rest of your argument can be countered in my initial post.
     
         

  14. #154
    Senior Member Joki's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by EjBlack View Post
    I agree, they both have knowledge but not on their personal techs. Even Kisame wanted to know how the Zombie Duo died http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/353/11.
    Where have I act/stated that Kakuzu has full knowledge?
    ....you supported me when you posted those scans, Choji's expanded hand can one shot masks with ease. You haven't pointed out to me how they're supposed to actually revive Kakuzu, and you're heavily implying Kisame will just sit on his ass and watch the masks revive Kakuzu. Well guess what? When he does that, Kisame kills Kakuzu over and over again with full stamina, how will Kakuzu defend? He can't, like I said before: "And what happens when Kisame does destroy masks? Kakuzu doesn't get to keep every single one of his elemental jutsu indefinitely as long as he has 1 heart."

    Quote Originally Posted by Negative Knight View Post
    Not at all.

    1) I've countered Suiton Daikodan with Kakuzu being hit after fuelling the jutsu, dying and then allowing his hearts to reintergrate into his body. This doesn't however come without any damage to Kisame who leaves himself open to be hit directly by all the other hearts
    That's not a counter, in that case one of his hearts is down, and Kisame is that much closer to victory. How will the masks come close to surviving Daikodan if even Kakuzu can't? The attack is extremely massive I have trouble believing the masks will somehow come out of daikodan perfectly fine and be able to save Kakuzu.

    Especially when Kakuzu has no knowledge and will use his masks to fuel Daikodan with its jutsu. What about in your "V2" form that you talk about so much? He had both of his masks inside him already, Daikodan would destroy him and wipe out multiple hearts like FRS did.

    And how does Daikodan leave Kisame open? Kakuzu's quite "Open" when his weak masks are flying around and Kakuzu's lying dead surrounded by Kisame's territory(a lake) with Kisame at full chakra and Kakuzu and his masks constantly being drained over time.
    2) I've countered the Water Dome. In summary Kakuzu and his masks travel in different directions, 4 of them escape and if Kakuzu is the target then Kisame will go for him. After Kisame dispels the Water Dome, the reintegrate back into his body to revive him but not before.
    Why would he dispel the water dome if 4 masks are going in different directions? I mean really. You need to think rationally here, what happens after that? It's become apparent to me you're avoiding the main points of answering the arguments you have no counter to.

    If Kisame kills Kakuzu, he's down 1 less jutsu and 4 weak masks have to get past Kisame and revive him. Which is all ridiculous in and of itself but what happens if all that does happen and Kakuzu gets revived safely? How does he hope to actually hurt or kill Kisame off when he has water dome, thousand sof sharks and daikodan with nigh infinite chakra?

    Where's your support for Kakuzu's chakra? When Kisame drains him, he doesn't get a 2nd full chakra count each time a heart revives him. In case you didn't know, there aren't 5 Kakuzu, once his chakra is gone it's gone. If you don't think I'm right then prove me wrong and support his chakra count.

    Now for the love of god, counter my points :rofl:
    Like what? Like I said muuuultiple times you can say "you never countered me i totally owned all your points" as much as you want but I need specifics, I have no idea what you're talking about. But if countering daikodan and water dome was a thing to get out of the way first you got a long way to go before I'm countering Kakuzu's (absorbed) jutsu.
     
         

  15. #155
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    "you supported me when you posted those scans, Choji's expanded hand can one shot masks with ease." LOL, RE-READ IT!

    "you haven't pointed out to me how they're supposed to actually revive Kakuzu, and you're heavily implying Kisame will just sit on his ass and watch the masks revive Kakuzu." I did not imply that Kisame will just stand there I am simply saying that No knowledge of his tech would mean he is ready to kill destroy his monsters. Little does he know that their Focus to to revive Kakuzu and not fight witout Kakuzu. The scan I post was to show that they are capable.

    "When he does that, Kisame kills Kakuzu over and over again with full stamina" Because Kisame has full knowledge and Kakuzu won't analzye and make the same mistake to get "owned" right.. Please stop underestimating Akasuki members, even Kisimoto wouldn't show that it is possible to one hit KO the Akasuki.

    "That's not a counter, in that case one of his hearts is down, " YES YES YES we already concluded that ONE HEART IS DOWNb

    "How will the masks come close to surviving Daikodan if even Kakuzu can't?" Because the feat-less Sabu can:



    "The attack is extremely massive I have trouble believing the masks will somehow come out of daikodan perfectly fine and be able to save Kakuzu." They won't be perfect, they will have some chakra taken off but they will still survive just like Sabu.

    "specially when Kakuzu has no knowledge and will use his masks to fuel Daikodan with its jutsu." Kakuzu has intellect feat. If he is inside the Dome and see he Chakra getting drain and will not TRY to give me chakra.

    "Daikodan would destroy him and wipe out multiple hearts like FRS did." Prove it. Water Dome only acts like water prison that drains chakra, can't believe you compared two different jutsus together....

    "weak masks are flying around" LOL, oh God...

    "surrounded by Kisame's territory(a lake) with Kisame" Prove it. While I disprove it.


    Nope, no territory.

    "Why would he dispel the water dome if 4 masks are going in different directions? I mean really. You need to think rationally here, what happens after that? "
    And you are thinking rational? What is Kisame going to do? Chase after the other mask that are already out? Do you think that is Rational for Kisame to do that?

    The rest I'm am not going waste my time explaining you are clearly throwing around the word "weak" which is pretty to me what you think of Kakuzu in general.
     
         

  16. #156
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    "Where's your support for Kakuzu's chakra? " [b] One more point to back up Kakuzu's chakra and their mask. Scans show how much chakra he is pouring out to do elemental bazooka's without him complain about conserving chakra.






     
         

  17. #157
    Omnislash The Humble Omnislash X SageMode's Avatar
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Quote Originally Posted by Invsblphntm View Post
    Kisame is basically Preta Path, and Kakuzu is basically a ton of jutsu spam( its alot more than jutsu spam..you know like his threads and his intellect feats?), so if I'm doing this right Kakuzu can't win this one.( ...BOTH of these ninjas have the capabilities to defeat the other..)
    :sy:No. kisame is not a preta path.....thats one reason why this argument is still going on because ppl think thats what his sword is capable of....and its not even close to that level....preta path absorbs NINJUTSU & CHAKRA(S) ALL-TOGETHER...where as kisames sword SPECIFICALLY EATS CHAKRA....it cannot eat up a massive/High ranked jutsu.....the manga scan of the sword trying to eat itachis fireball exposed this rather easily.....(which is a c/d ranked jutsu)

    The reason why is because the sword only was able to eat an area of the jutsu that wouldve came in direct contact with bee...the rest of the flames were still intact and right behind him....so then,does preta path leave anything behind when it sucks in ninjutsu/ chakra?
    No, it absorbs ALL of it in a rather fast pace...

    kisames sword is meant to consume chakra directly from its opponent....not their ninjutsu attack from what ive seen....preta path SPECIFICALY absorbs chakra & Ninjutsus....i hope this helps anyone just seeing this thread! Lemme know if i missed any important facts in this comparison!!
     
         

  18. #158
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    I think Kisame is kind of overrated, a huge part of his power is just because of Samehada.It weakens his opponents to the point he is able to beat them.With that sword he would most likely be able to beat Kakuzu BUT without that weapon he would be doomed.

    Don´t get me wrong Kisame is strong even without that sword but nowhere near as strong as people think he is, without it there is no way in hell he could beaten even the weakest tailed beast let alone one of the really strong ones.
     
         

  19. #159
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    Wow really detailed thread, I'll have to come back to this one and read it more closely later.
     
         

  20. #160
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    Re: (Negative Knight) Proof that Kakuzu > Kisame Hoshigaki (Debate)

    great thread but I solute kisame
     
         

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