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  1. #21
    �You Question Logic Child� TheTailedSage's Avatar
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    no Sasuke during his fight with Gaara was chunin level aready.
    He said your at the level of chunin he never said he Is a chunin although i see your point, remember how canhe be a chunin if the exam isn't over
     
         

  2. #22
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Kid Kakashi was a Jounin at 13 while Sasuke just made Genin

    kakashi will win
     
         

  3. #23
    Disciple of Unorthodox Icelerate's Avatar
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Orochimaru was for one reason and one reason only: TO FIND OUT SASUKE'S UTTER LIMITS. He was literally playing with him, and the fight would have been over in an instant if he hadn't been, while Kakashi's opponent, (who was probably a jounin given that he was able to use 20 kage bunshin, an A-rank tech, and decided to keep fighting even suspecting one of his foes was the Yellow Flash) while not exactly Sannin-level, was fighting to kill.
    I know but the moves that Sasuke used against part 1 Kakashi and Orochimaru would certainly work against kid Kakashi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Zabuza's clones were water clones, stated in the manga to be 1/10th of the strength of the user. Taking them out would be a praiseworthy thing for a civillian, but for a ninja of any talent? Nope.
    So the clones that kid Kakashi killed were even weaker than the ones Sasuke killed since the guy kid Kakashi killed was far weaker than Zabuza unless you think kid Kakashi and part 1 Kakashi are on the same level as each other because both are jounin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Kakashi has no intelligence feats (apart from creating his original jutsu, Chidori) because he has no screen-time. However, he graduated way earlier than even Itachi, and indeed earlier than anyone whose graduation time has been mentioned in the entire series. We can at the very least assume he is far more intelligent than his age would imply him to be. Sasuke is bright for his age. Kakashi is brilliant.
    True but graduating earlier doesn't make you smarter. Shikamaru and Sakura graduated on the same age as Kiba, Choji and Naruto. Are they of the same equality when it comes to intellect?
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    A more pressing concern is how Part 1 Sasuke has no intelligence feats either, despite MASSIVE screen-time.
    He has plenty. He was able to watch out for basic traps from Kakashi which Naruto fell for easily. Sasuke managed to figure out the whole purpose of the written portion of the exam right after getting to write it. During the second round of the chunin exams, he was able to make a password too complicated for Naruto to understand so that if an imposter came disguised as Naruto, Sasuke would be able to know whether it is Naruto or not. He knew Naruto was dumb so he figured out it was an imposter even though Sakura, another bright genin, didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    The younger generation always surpassing the previous one is simply not true. I'd like some evidence for Gai stating he was weaker than Lee, and even then I'd be sceptical as Gai isn't exactly reliable as a witness. He forgot who Kisame was twice. It's entirely possible that he made something up on the spot to cheer Lee up.
    Okay I found the scan for you. This is a flash back one year before the story started and Gai claimed that he was just like Lee was one year before the chunin exams. That Lee was significantly weaker than the Lee that fought Sasuke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    In any case, saying Sasuke would beat Lee after chidori training is far from certain (especially as my original point was in regards to taijutsu). Sasuke's taijutsu arsenal is bastardized from Lee's, which would give Lee an advantage, and as Gai taught Lee and Kakashi fought Gai, Kakashi would have an advantage too.
    Sasuke is smarter than Lee, roughly equal in speed, ninjutsu and sharingan precog. Lee has slightly better speed, stamina and taijutsu. Unless Lee uses gates on Sasuke, Lee loses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Having sharingan doesn't make chidori stronger IN ANY WAY, it makes it safer to use and more precise. If Sasuke initiates a chidori clash I'd be more concerned for him, as Kakashi knows far more about the technique. He made it, after all.
    I know it doesn't make it stronger but something like this would happen if Sasuke and Kakashi clashed their chidoris and if Kakashi did not have sharingan precog but Sasuke did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Sasuke got help from Karin in identifying Izanagi, and maybe more as well, i can't recall. Otherwise, I agree totally. It was my entire point that one side having experience would make it harder for the other side, which you've so admirably pointed out.
    No he didn't. While Karin tried to tell Sasuke because she was intelligent enough to figure out Danzo's izanagi, Sasuke had already done so by than and didn't give Karin enough time to finish what she was saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piratefish View Post
    Sasuke had trained intensively for a month to achieve his speed, Kakashi had been apprenticed under the speed-demon Minato for six or so years. I highly doubt their speed being equal. Kid Lee being INSANELY SUPERIOR to kid Gai is baseless
    How is it baseless when kid Gai has no feats to judge and when he told Lee that he was weak as a kid?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTailedSage View Post
    He said your at the level of chunin he never said he Is a chunin although i see your point, remember how canhe be a chunin if the exam isn't over
    I know but saying that Kakashi beats Sasuke because one is a jounin and the other is a genin is baseless but I do see your point. If the OP gave Kakashi the sharingan, Kakashi should beat Sasuke IMO but that isn't the case here especially if Sasuke has 3 tomoe and Kakashi has no sharingan. I say Sasuke wins mid-high difficulty but if Kakashi had 3 tomoe too, he would win with mid-high difficulty.
     
         
    Last edited by Icelerate; 11-10-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate;905175

    I know but saying that Kakashi beats Sasuke because one is a jounin and the other is a genin is baseless but I do see your point. If the OP gave Kakashi the sharingan, [B
    Kakashi should beat Sasuke IMO but that isn't the case here especially if Sasuke has 3 tomoe and Kakashi has no sharingan. I say Sasuke wins mid-high difficulty but if Kakashi had 3 tomoe too, he would win with mid-high difficulty[/B].
    Naw , disagree with the bottom part think about it for a minute. Sasuke is a true Uchiha which means he can use the sharingan better than Kakashi. And his stamina would be far greater than Kakashi would give him even a greater advantage over Kakashi.I dont think even if Kakashi get the sharingan he would it would be like a double edge sword.
     
         

  5. #25
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDude View Post
    Naw , disagree with the bottom part think about it for a minute. Sasuke is a true Uchiha which means he can use the sharingan better than Kakashi. And his stamina would be far greater than Kakashi would give him even a greater advantage over Kakashi.I dont think even if Kakashi get the sharingan he would it would be like a double edge sword.
    True but I think Kakashi's body was more built compared to Sasuke's so Kakashi can maintain speed longer. I do agree with your post but some people were saying Kakashi stomps low-mid difficulty so I was trying to compromise. Kakashi doesn't need to rely on the sharingan more than Sasuke because Kakashi was made jounin even without the sharingan so in reality, Sasuke will be wasting more chakra since he'll have it on for longer while Kakashi can use it in reserve.
     
         

  6. #26
    �You Question Logic Child� TheTailedSage's Avatar
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    I know but the moves that Sasuke used against part 1 Kakashi and Orochimaru would certainly work against kid Kakashi.

    So the clones that kid Kakashi killed were even weaker than the ones Sasuke killed since the guy kid Kakashi killed was far weaker than Zabuza unless you think kid Kakashi and part 1 Kakashi are on the same level as each other because both are jounin.

    True but graduating earlier doesn't make you smarter. Shikamaru and Sakura graduated on the same age as Kiba, Choji and Naruto. Are they of the same equality when it comes to intellect?

    He has plenty. He was able to watch out for basic traps from Kakashi which Naruto fell for easily. Sasuke managed to figure out the whole purpose of the written portion of the exam right after getting to write it. During the second round of the chunin exams, he was able to make a password too complicated for Naruto to understand so that if an imposter came disguised as Naruto, Sasuke would be able to know whether it is Naruto or not. He knew Naruto was dumb so he figured out it was an imposter even though Sakura, another bright genin, didn't.

    Okay I found the scan for you. This is a flash back one year before the story started and Gai claimed that he was just like Lee was one year before the chunin exams. That Lee was significantly weaker than the Lee that fought Sasuke.

    Sasuke is smarter than Lee, roughly equal in speed, ninjutsu and sharingan precog. Lee has slightly better speed, stamina and taijutsu. Unless Lee uses gates on Sasuke, Lee loses.

    I know it doesn't make it stronger but something like this would happen if Sasuke and Kakashi clashed their chidoris and if Kakashi did not have sharingan precog but Sasuke did.

    No he didn't. While Karin tried to tell Sasuke because she was intelligent enough to figure out Danzo's izanagi, Sasuke had already done so by than and didn't give Karin enough time to finish what she was saying.

    How is it baseless when kid Gai has no feats to judge and when he told Lee that he was weak as a kid?

    I know but saying that Kakashi beats Sasuke because one is a jounin and the other is a genin is baseless but I do see your point. If the OP gave Kakashi the sharingan, Kakashi should beat Sasuke IMO but that isn't the case here especially if Sasuke has 3 tomoe and Kakashi has no sharingan. I say Sasuke wins mid-high difficulty but if Kakashi had 3 tomoe too, he would win with mid-high difficulty.

    Illgive you that BUT when have we seen the level 2 sharingan be of any help to sasuke back in the day, the omnly time i remember is when they were doing the written exam, its been proven he cant keep up with taijutsu back then with the rock lee fight and based on current knowledge we only know kakashi back then didnt use much ninjutsu apart from chidori which he never really used, when we first saw him use it he must of never used it before that or maybe a couple times, Level three sharingan for sasuke back then would have kakashi on the wall but it all depends really on what level sharingan he has because he can get caught in the simpliest of traps although kakashi has had his simplton moments
     
         

  7. #27
    Disciple of Unorthodox Icelerate's Avatar
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTailedSage View Post
    Illgive you that BUT when have we seen the level 2 sharingan be of any help to sasuke back in the day, the omnly time i remember is when they were doing the written exam, its been proven he cant keep up with taijutsu back then with the rock lee fight and based on current knowledge we only know kakashi back then didnt use much ninjutsu apart from chidori which he never really used, when we first saw him use it he must of never used it before that or maybe a couple times, Level three sharingan for sasuke back then would have kakashi on the wall but it all depends really on what level sharingan he has because he can get caught in the simpliest of traps although kakashi has had his simplton moments
    You keep on saying that Rock Lee>2 tomoe Sasuke but that is false since that was early part 1 Sasuke compared to late part 1 Sasuke. 3 tomoe Sasuke managed to keep up with KN1 Naruto's speed, the same guy who blitzed Haku and Haku managed to intercept part 1 Kakashi's attack to save Zabuza.
     
         

  8. #28
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    True but I think Kakashi's body was more built compared to Sasuke's so Kakashi can maintain speed longer. I do agree with your post but some people were saying Kakashi stomps low-mid difficulty so I was trying to compromise. Kakashi doesn't need to rely on the sharingan more than Sasuke because Kakashi was made jounin even without the sharingan so in reality, Sasuke will be wasting more chakra since he'll have it on for longer while Kakashi can use it in reserve.
    I agree and I understand
     
         

  9. #29
    Argumentative Bastard Piratefish's Avatar
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    I know but the moves that Sasuke used against part 1 Kakashi and Orochimaru would certainly work against kid Kakashi.
    He'd certainly have the opportunity to use some of them, yes. My point was that how well the two did against their opponents had little to do with how they measured up to them in terms of skill. Sasuke got to do whatever he thought would work, Kakashi didn't. And as it's one of the only kid Kakashi fight available, it gives a less accurate impression of what he CAN do than for example thoe Oro fight for Sasuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    So the clones that kid Kakashi killed were even weaker than the ones Sasuke killed since the guy kid Kakashi killed was far weaker than Zabuza unless you think kid Kakashi and part 1 Kakashi are on the same level as each other because both are jounin.
    Shadow clones are, with enough chakra in them, virtually identical in ability to their makers. Given that the Rock nin apparently specialized in them, Kakashi shows a FAR higher degree of skill in destroying them than Sasuke does with Zabuza's water clones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    True but graduating earlier doesn't make you smarter. Shikamaru and Sakura graduated on the same age as Kiba, Choji and Naruto. Are they of the same equality when it comes to intellect?
    Graduating earlier doesn't make you smarter, but it certainly HEAVILY implies that you are. You have variations in intelligence within each grade (ex: Sasuke and Naruto) and then you have those so far ahead of the curve that they gain little or nothing from learning at the same pace as the others (ex: Kakashi, Itachi, Shikamaru). And in the ninja world, placing someone out of their depth is tantamount to killing them, so teachers ought to be VERY sure that students are capable before bumping them up a grade.

    Did I really make it sound like I though the Konoha 9 were exactly equal in intelligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    He has plenty. He was able to watch out for basic traps from Kakashi which Naruto fell for easily. Sasuke managed to figure out the whole purpose of the written portion of the exam right after getting to write it. During the second round of the chunin exams, he was able to make a password too complicated for Naruto to understand so that if an imposter came disguised as Naruto, Sasuke would be able to know whether it is Naruto or not. He knew Naruto was dumb so he figured out it was an imposter even though Sakura, another bright genin, didn't.
    Sasuke was able to avoid basic traps. Sasuke was able to use his bloodline limit on someone who looked like they knew what they were doing. Sasuke took a gamble on Naruto being unable to remember a poem. These aren't really shining examples of intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    Okay I found the scan for you. This is a flash back one year before the story started and Gai claimed that he was just like Lee was one year before the chunin exams. That Lee was significantly weaker than the Lee that fought Sasuke.
    Notice how Gai says "you are like me" and not "you are identical in combat ability to what I was at your exact age"? He's making a statement on Lee's personality and drive, not so much his abilities as a shinobi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    Sasuke is smarter than Lee, roughly equal in speed, ninjutsu and sharingan precog. Lee has slightly better speed, stamina and taijutsu. Unless Lee uses gates on Sasuke, Lee loses.
    If Lee stays close and doesn't allow him to use ninjutsu, he probably could win with superior endurance and strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    I know it doesn't make it stronger but something like this would happen if Sasuke and Kakashi clashed their chidoris and if Kakashi did not have sharingan precog but Sasuke did.
    Sasuke sees a rasengan and his natural instinct is to mash his chidori into it. Seems to me he'd want to do that in a chidori duel as well, especially if he's fighting a younger version of his teacher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    No he didn't. While Karin tried to tell Sasuke because she was intelligent enough to figure out Danzo's izanagi, Sasuke had already done so by than and didn't give Karin enough time to finish what she was saying.
    True, good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    How is it baseless when kid Gai has no feats to judge and when he told Lee that he was weak as a kid?
    Answered this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Icelerate View Post
    I know but saying that Kakashi beats Sasuke because one is a jounin and the other is a genin is baseless but I do see your point. If the OP gave Kakashi the sharingan, Kakashi should beat Sasuke IMO but that isn't the case here especially if Sasuke has 3 tomoe and Kakashi has no sharingan. I say Sasuke wins mid-high difficulty but if Kakashi had 3 tomoe too, he would win with mid-high difficulty.
    I believe Sasuke could win against sharinganless Kakashi, but that Kakashi has the edge. If Kakashi has it, Sasuke would be doomed.
     
         
    Last edited by Piratefish; 11-11-2012 at 02:41 AM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    the facted that curse seal is retricted should tell who stronger 3 tomoe > 2 tomoe kid kakashi is raped
     
         

  11. #31
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Sasuke, mid diff. Sasuke was simply at a higher level as a genius.
     
         

  12. #32
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Curse seal is restricted because it's not Sasuke's power it's an unfair advantage.

    We now know that the curse seal was developed as a way to gather Nature energy which means it's basically Sage Mode.
    Part 1 Sasuke with SM is a bit of an unfair match up.

    Kakashi's raw power is far greater than Sasuke's, Sasuke had to use the first gate to get Lee's speed it wasn't his raw strength it was a technique, a technique Kakashi didn't need to be fast or strong.


    Kakashi Chidori >>>> Sasuke Chidori


    He keeps it up long enough to take out 18 clones, Sasuke can barely keep it going for one thrust. And without the outside help of the Curse Seal he activates it 3 times, Sasuke can only manage 2.


    He also has far better senses than Sasuke he can track enemies by scent and sound even as a kid, Sasuke wasn't trained to that level.
     
         

  13. #33
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    ^ Seems more like your opinion than facts. Kakashi was barely able to use chidori more than 3 times - 4 times - as as adult and Sasuke was able to use it 2 times when he was less than half his age, and also was able to break through Gaara's perfect defense. You think a bunch of clones even compare to that? Or his fight with a legendary sanin at the mere age of 12? Kakashi is no where near that level.
     
         

  14. #34
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    ^ Seems more like your opinion than facts. Kakashi was barely able to use chidori more than 3 times - 4 times - as as adult and Sasuke was able to use it 2 times when he was less than half his age, and also was able to break through Gaara's perfect defense. You think a bunch of clones even compare to that? Or his fight with a legendary sanin at the mere age of 12? Kakashi is no where near that level.
    This post is pretty opinionated as well. To use tha Raikiri effectively, Kakashi has to use the sharingan as well, which is a significant additional drain on his chakra. One Sasuke doesn't feel nearly as strongly.

    Sasuke broke through Gaara's defense with the Chidori, what's your point? Is it stated anywhere that taking out 18 clones is a testament to Chidori strength rather than duration (and skills as a shinobi)? Given that Kakashi can maintain Chidori for far longer, even having just created the technique, suggests that his is more stable and thus probably stronger than his student's.

    If you think Sasuke's fight would have lasted even half a minute with Orochimaru at all serious you should probably think again.
     
         

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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    lord sasuke would win
     
         

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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTailedSage;9041302[B
    Sasuke was struggling to take out guys like rock lee[/B] WITH sharingan and in the end he could of got finished with the lots, kakashi at that age was way more inteligent and if sasuke was really as strong as u say he was they would of relized his power from that age, naruto is technically a sage and sasuke is a rouge ninja so civil ranks like chunin jounin and anbu dont apply for him

    when did he trap kakashi?? (show me the manga page) and as a kid his chidori limit was 2 so thats not really beifiting him a great deal if he cant hit kakashi, plus kakashi was the one who made chidori he can do it without sharingan hes just slower using it
    You aint messin with Team Gai in part 1.....

    Anyways, If Sasuke has the chidori, than you have to give Kakashi the Sharingan, but Kakashi wins this. However I disagree with Kakashi being so intelligent, he was just as impatient as Naruto was Minato had to save him?
     
         

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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by RockLee the Green Beast View Post
    You aint messin with Team Gai in part 1.....

    Anyways, If Sasuke has the chidori, than you have to give Kakashi the Sharingan, but Kakashi wins this. However I disagree with Kakashi being so intelligent, he was just as impatient as Naruto was Minato had to save him?
    i agreeon the first bit but kakashi wasinteligent to be ranked anu at such a young age plus he was reckless at times and too cocky for his own good but in saying that he's iq to sasukes is only a bit higher than sasuke
     
         

  18. #38
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    We've seen that Kakashi was already able to use 2chidoris in Kakashi gaiden along with Sharingan, so the same amount as Sasuke in part1. He could probably even use more since we don't know his real limits in contrary of Sasuke. Kakashi has displayed greater speed and faster handseals while fighting even a skilled jounin in close combat. Both may have the sharingan, but in terms of self abilities, Kakashi is greater. He was even able to own a master in taijutsu like Gai without Sharingan when Sasuke even with 2tomoes sharingan was defeated by Lee even wearing weights
     
         

  19. #39
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Kid Kakashi will surely win. . Remember that sasuke wouldn't be that strong without the chidori which is taught by Kakashi. .
     
         

  20. #40
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    Re: Kid Kakashi vs Kid Sasuke

    Quote Originally Posted by shelke View Post
    ^ Seems more like your opinion than facts. Kakashi was barely able to use chidori more than 3 times - 4 times - as as adult and Sasuke was able to use it 2 times when he was less than half his age, and also was able to break through Gaara's perfect defense. You think a bunch of clones even compare to that? Or his fight with a legendary sanin at the mere age of 12? Kakashi is no where near that level.
    No Kakashi could use Raikiri 4 times, not Chidori.

    Kid Kakashi can use Chidori at least 2 times like Sasuke and what's more he can use it way longer. As my photo proves since he defeats 17/18 clones with one Chidori meaning he keeps it going long enough to punch them all.
    Sasuke manages one punch per Chidori...

    Sasuke fought a Sannin who a) wasn't trying to kill him and b) who's entire weakness is based around the Sharingan.
    Chidori breaks through Gaara's defense not Sasuke...I don't get why you think Kakashi's Chidori wouldn't do the same thing...

    I wasn't saying clones compare to Gaara's defense just Kakashi keeps Chidori going way longer than Sasuke that Chidori that kills 17/18 clones is probably worth 2 activations at least.
     
         

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