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  1. #26
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    where has manga made it clear that PS is an EMS
    When Onooki asked why Madara didnt use it in the past and got an answer. There is really nothing to argue about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    so by your logic sasuke now has perfect susanoo?
    Not yet, like Sasuke said hes still accustoming to Itachis eyes, but he can surely achieve it.
     
         

  2. #27
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Did I say that? It's obvious that he has yet to unlock it...but EMS and only EMS is needed for PS.
    No thats exactly what you said, EMS only is needed which means sasuke now has PS. PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form, and its nothing compared to PS.
     
         

  3. #28
    Sasuke 2-0 against Naruto Champ's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Manga said Madara was and exceptional Uchiha born with the greatest, strongest chakra they've ever seen. Plus him and Sasuke are the only ones with EMS, so I assume it upgraded his Susasno'o to Perfect. When he got Hashirama DNA he had long disappeared.
     
         

  4. #29
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    No thats exactly what you said, EMS only is needed which means sasuke now has PS. PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form, and its nothing compared to PS.
    Nope. Like I said in my earlier post Sasuke is still accustoming to new eyes. Could Sasuke use full armored Susanoo just when he got MS? Nope.
     
         

  5. #30
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    When Onooki asked why Madara didnt use it in the past and got an answer. There is really nothing to argue about.


    Not yet, like Sasuke said hes still accustoming to Itachis eyes, but he can surely achieve it.
    so answer my question, why does he say anyone who sees PS dies when hashirama beat him?
    and no like i said PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form.
    but lets say you're right? how does sasuke the unlock PS?
     
         

  6. #31
    Sasuke 2-0 against Naruto Champ's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    so answer my question, why does he say anyone who sees PS dies when hashirama beat him?
    and no like i said PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form.
    but lets say you're right? how does sasuke the unlock PS?
    Sasuke hasn't even gon all out in a full fight yet to even know what his EMS abilities are. When he fought the Raikage, Danzo, and Kakashi he mastered MS Susano'o.
     
         

  7. #32
    Senior Member Turson's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    so answer my question, why does he say anyone who sees PS dies when hashiran beat him?
    Maybe becuase people who said this didnt know that Hashirama survived it. Or that legend was created before the ultimate fight between them.
    and no like i said PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form
    It was never stated that its Sasukes final Susanoo. If Madara was able to achieve PS with EMS, Sasuke can too.
    but lets say you're right? how does sasuke the unlock PS?
    By experience, like earlier.
    1. When Sasuke awakened MS he couldnt use Susanoo at all.
    2. Against A he used ribcage for the first time.
    3. When Gaara appeared he used complete skeleton with muscles.
    4. Against Danzo he formed Susanoo with skin.
    5. Only against Kakashi he could use full armored Susanoo for a brief moment.

    Sasuke just have to accustome to new eyes. -> http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/15
     
         

  8. #33
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ View Post
    Sasuke hasn't even gon all out in a full fight yet to even know what his EMS abilities are. When he fought the Raikage, Danzo, and Kakashi he mastered MS Susano'o.
    true but that does not exactly mean he will unlock PS. hes is just saying that sasuke will get perfect susanoo as if its just a natural progression whereas i think senju dna is needed for it. but we will just have to wait and see.
     
         

  9. #34
    Sasuke 2-0 against Naruto Champ's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    true but that does not exactly mean he will unlock PS. hes is just saying that sasuke will get perfect susanoo as if its just a natural progression whereas i think senju dna is needed for it. but we will just have to wait and see.
    Madara and Sasuke are the only ones with EMS, so I assume it upgraded his Susasno'o to Perfect. When Madara got Hashirama DNA he had long disappeared.
     
         

  10. #35
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turson View Post
    Maybe becuase people who said this didnt know that Hashirama survived it. Or that legend was created before the ultimate fight between them.

    It was never stated that its Sasukes final Susanoo. If Madara was able to achieve PS with EMS, Sasuke can too.

    By experience, like earlier.
    1. When Sasuke awakened MS he couldnt use Susanoo at all.
    2. Against A he used ribcage for the first time.
    3. When Gaara appeared he used complete skeleton with muscles.
    4. Against Danzo he formed Susanoo with skin.
    5. Only against Kakashi he could use full armored Susanoo for a brief moment.

    Sasuke just have to accustome to new eyes. -> http://www.narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/574/15
    YET madara knew that hashirama survived so WHY would he still say it? so what if people didn't know hashi survived. madara did yet hes the one who said it...

    fine sasuke progress will probably answer all our questions, whether he needs senju DNA or just EMS, we will see.
     
         

  11. #36
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    tsunade was only guessing, i don't think madara used PS in tghe fight against hashirama
    Surely she was only guessing. But for Gods sake. This is a manga. Why would Kishi have kage characters make meaningless guessing? And don't say it's to make us question it, and make theories about it. Cause if that was the case, he wouldn't make Tsunade say something like this.

    Besides Madara still said even with PS that "only Hashirama could stop him" - so he himself did imply that Hashirama could stop PS, which in turn suggest Hashi probably fought it

    Now it's likely the rinnengan makes it easier to stabilize and utilizes better control of it, but nonetheless on the basics it's still a MS/EMS technique that has probably been improved with senju DNA as well, since it apparently boosts about anything in the manga.
     
         

  12. #37
    Senior Member KidGamer65's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    No thats exactly what you said, EMS only is needed which means sasuke now has PS. PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form, and its nothing compared to PS.
    Remember when Sasuke's Susanoo evolved through usage when he first got MS? That is exactly what is going to happen, when has Sasuke used his full power in a fight since he got EMS? Never. When he is pushed to his limits his PS will appear.
     
         

  13. #38
    Sasuke > Your Favourite shelke's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    EMS unlocks Complete Sussano - Sasuke unlocking his Complete Sussano the first time he utilizes EMS's power: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...nd_Susanoo.png - not the perfect one, but EMS is the condition to perfect on a complete sussano. Perfect sussano is basically a chakra stabilization - Madara Stabilzing his sussno to create PS: http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/589 - around a Complete Sussano, meaning it's a perfected form of it. It should be clear to everyone by now.
     
         

  14. #39
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    Surely she was only guessing. But for Gods sake. This is a manga. Why would Kishi have kage characters make meaningless guessing? And don't say it's to make us question it, and make theories about it. Cause if that was the case, he wouldn't make Tsunade say something like this.

    Besides Madara still said even with PS that "only Hashirama could stop him" - so he himself did imply that Hashirama could stop PS, which in turn suggest Hashi probably fought it

    Now it's likely the rinnengan makes it easier to stabilize and utilizes better control of it, but nonetheless on the basics it's still a MS/EMS technique that has probably been improved with senju DNA as well, since it apparently boosts about anything in the manga.
    if u read the OP u would have seen that i said that susanoo is an EMS jutsu and PS is obtained by EMS combined with senju DNA which his what u just said...

    now ur right this is a manga so why tsunade guess?
    ill ask u the same i asked turson.
    so why would madara say anyone whos see PS dies when hashrama beat him? answer this then i start taking u seriously...
     
         

  15. #40
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
    Remember when Sasuke's Susanoo evolved through usage when he first got MS? That is exactly what is going to happen, when has Sasuke used his full power in a fight since he got EMS? Never. When he is pushed to his limits his PS will appear.
    we will see
     
         

  16. #41
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Either way, Kishi will forget that Madara used it in the past and make it a Rinnegan tech.
     
         

  17. #42
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    so answer my question, why does he say anyone who sees PS dies when hashirama beat him?
    and no like i said PS is the final form of madara's susanoo, we have already seen sasuke's final form.
    but lets say you're right? how does sasuke the unlock PS?
    That's not even what Madara said.

    These are his exact words:








    Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

    "It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.





    Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.








    Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

    Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

    I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

    Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

    Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

    1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
    2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

    Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

    Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:





    Then Madara says this:





    Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

    Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

    This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.





    Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.
     
         

  18. #43
    Senior Member thegame's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    if u read the OP u would have seen that i said that susanoo is an EMS jutsu and PS is obtained by EMS combined with senju DNA which his what u just said...

    now ur right this is a manga so why tsunade guess?
    ill ask u the same i asked turson.
    so why would madara say anyone whos see PS dies when hashrama beat him? answer this then i start taking u seriously...
    No I mean that PS is an EMS jutsu, but that it may work even better with senju DNA, thus it still has absolutely nothing to do with senju or rinnengan

    Well if PS has anything to do with rinnengan, it's impossible for Madara to say those words, since he gave up his rinnengan shortly after obtaining them so you just proved it cannot be from rinnengan. Also it's not from the senju DNA, cause it has nothing to do with susano.

    EDIT: just read the post above mine really..
     
         

  19. #44
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by kit View Post
    That's not even what Madara said.

    These are his exact words:








    Madara: "Well then...The complete Susano'o. It is said that anyone who has seen it dies."

    "It is said" implies that it is not set in stone that anyone who has seen Susano'o couldn't live to tell about it. This is evident by the Kages standing right in Madara's face still alive even though they had witnessed/experienced the power of PS. Also remember that Hashirama went up against (and survived) Madara's PS.





    Since Hashirama has already faced the magnificent/almighty PS (as acknowledged by Madara), it can be greatly implied that Madara needs EMS to use PS.








    Tsunade says: "Did my grandfather really fight against this...?"

    Notice how Tsunade is looking up as she makes her statement. Also notice how Tsunade says "this". That would imply that Tsunade was referring to an inanimate object (PS) when making her statement.

    I pointed the aforementioned out so I could cut down any confusion on who/what Tsunade was referring to when making her statement.

    Madara responds to Tsunade with: "I already told you that the only one who can stop me is Hashirama."

    Now...why does Madara say this?...because he is answering the question that Tsunade had just asked. He indirectly answers her question by saying only Hashirama can defeat me. In other words, Madara doesn't literally say the words "Hashirama can beat my PS", but this is understood since:

    1. Madara says Hashirama is "the only one who can stop me"
    2. There's no way Madara could have defeated Hashi without using his full power since Madara needed the kyuubi's help to fight Hashi (Hashi must have just been that strong)

    Madara throws out another hint that Hashi has fought PS when he says: "Plus, I should say that it's probably a good thing for you that he is not here...Because..."

    Madara then proceeds to use PS power to destroy some mountains as seen below:





    Then Madara says this:





    Madara: "If I'm the only one here...The extent to which the maps will need to be drawn won't be too drastic."

    Madara saying the above statement implies that Madara and Hashi have had battles to where they have devastated the battlefield. Which of Madara's powers/techs can devastate a battlefield? PS can which he had just demonstrated when he destroyed those mountains.

    This is a great and definitive indication that Madara has used PS against Hashirama.





    Most of what I have just showed you is enough evidence to prove that Madara has used PS against Hashirama. Since Madara has used PS against Hashi, there is no way that he would need Senju DNA to use PS since he has used it before he had Senju DNA.
    no ur wrong what u just said makes me look even more right. madara says its said that anyone whos see the PS dies. there are 2 points i take from this.

    1. it sounded as if madara was using PS for the first time, that why he said its said.
    2.even if other people said it, madara himself knows that hashirama survived so why the hell would he still say it?

    but im sorry but i think there no way that hashirama could have defeated PS and kurama at the same time but you do have a valid point so ill guess we will just have to wait and see.
     
         
    Last edited by Namikaze Haru; 11-10-2012 at 02:30 AM.

  20. #45
    Member Namikaze Haru's Avatar
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    No I mean that PS is an EMS jutsu, but that it may work even better with senju DNA, thus it still has absolutely nothing to do with senju or rinnengan

    Well if PS has anything to do with rinnengan, it's impossible for Madara to say those words, since he gave up his rinnengan shortly after obtaining them so you just proved it cannot be from rinnengan. Also it's not from the senju DNA, cause it has nothing to do with susano.

    EDIT: just read the post above mine really..
    u jus proved again that u did not read the post...

    1. i never said PS was from rinnegan
    2. senju DNA has nothing to do with susanoo? having senju dna improves ur chakra levels, look at obito and danzo. what is susnaoo made from? yes charka...

    but hey i never did say i was 100% right, i had a thought and made it known. sasuke progress will reveal the origin of PS, whether it be EMS or EMS with senju DNA? we will find out through him hopefully.
     
         

  21. #46
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    It's an excellent theory. You very well could be right. I mean, there are so many gaps in Kishimoto's story as is so yeah I'll bite.
     
         

  22. #47
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    PS is a EMS technique. I doubt Sasuke will get Senju DNA and he needs PS to fight Naruto, he just needs to learn how to use it first. (Since he will only have recently got it, he will probably only be able to maintain PS for a limited period of time.)
     
         

  23. #48
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Is this a real question? I suppose I could refer you to Sasuke and his lack of Rinnegan, and the ability to summon Susanoo..he was also able to do this without EMS..so yeahhh
     
         
    Last edited by yeahhh; 11-10-2012 at 03:50 PM.

  24. #49
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    u jus proved again that u did not read the post...

    1. i never said PS was from rinnegan
    2. senju DNA has nothing to do with susanoo? having senju dna improves ur chakra levels, look at obito and danzo. what is susnaoo made from? yes charka...

    but hey i never did say i was 100% right, i had a thought and made it known. sasuke progress will reveal the origin of PS, whether it be EMS or EMS with senju DNA? we will find out through him hopefully.
    But your initial question is, whether PS is a rinnengan jutsu or a EMS jutsu, and this has been answered.

    Senju DNA doesn't exactly make your chakra any better than before... It gives you a stronger "life-force", which might give you an increased amount of disposable chakra, but it changes nothing on how you use it. It might make Madara capable of maintaining PS for longer, but it does not change it.

    And we wont find out anything from sasuke, since he already has Uzumaki DNA...
     
         

  25. #50
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    Re: Is Perfect susanoo a EMS or Rinnegan jutsu?

    Quote Originally Posted by Namikaze Haru View Post
    no ur wrong what u just said makes me look even more right. madara says its said that anyone whos see the PS dies. there are 2 points i take from this.

    1. it sounded as if madara was using PS for the first time, that why he said its said.
    2.even if other people said it, madara himself knows that hashirama survived so why the hell would he still say it?

    Madara made the "it is said" statement specifically because Hashi is the only one who has survived it. Once Madara broke out of edo tensei, he was just about done with fighting the Kages. He didn't want to have to pull out PS again cause the Kages had already seen it and lived. Remember though, the only reason the Kages survived PS was because PS was deactivated while edo tensei was first being released.











    Why would Madara disgrace himself by showing the Kages PS again after the Kages only illegitimately survived it? Madara's too prideful to do that. The only person deserving of seeing PS twice would be Hashi because he was the only one capable of defeating it.


    but im sorry but i think there no way that hashirama could have defeated PS and kurama at the same time but you do have a valid point so ill guess we will just have to wait and see.

    But there is no thinking involved regarding this matter. The manga has already said (and so has Madara himself) that Hashi defeated him. I've already shown you the scan were Madara says Hashi defeated PS so that's one down.


    Now here's the scan were Madara himself states how Hashi was able to suppress Kurama:











    How many times does Madara have to say/show you how he was defeated Hashi? :shrug:

    It's all in the manga.
     
         

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