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  1. #1
    sasori of the red sand sasori420's Avatar
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    first hokage vs madara?

    Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
    so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?
     
         

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    Sixth Hokage of Konoha Naruto1217's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori420 View Post
    Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
    so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?
    First off, I'm gonna say that (in Manga time) At the time of the Shodaime Vs Madara, Shodaime was a Bad Ass, But so was Madara; Madara was able to control the Strongest Bijuu with his Eyes; That Pretty Damn Awesome if I do say so myself; But the Fact that the Shodaime was able to Defeat him was pretty awesome and Madara was probably bitter.

    That being said, There no way madara wanted to throw this fight b/c he wanted to prove that he was Stronger then the Shodaime and that He diserved the title of Hokage instead of the Shodaime.

    As we all Know, Madara did try again to take down the Hokage of a different time, The Yondaime, but again was Unsuccessful, so He's probably really ticked that his plans keep failing; Sooner or later he's gonna have to deal with one of his failed plans called Naruto Uzumaki.

    As for Why the Sandaime was stronger then the Shodaime and the Nidaime, I think Kakashi put it best, "The new Generation will always surpass the old Generation."

    Thats just how the world works.
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    lol how do i give someone neg reps
     
         

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    sasori of the red sand sasori420's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by moneyezzz View Post
    lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb
    Find me where in the manga or anywhere that says the corpses are weaker than the actually ppl than ill believe you
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori420 View Post
    Find me where in the manga or anywhere that says the corpses are weaker than the actually ppl than ill believe you
    find me were in tha manga tht it says thy are on tha same strenth u cnt can yu
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    i agree with moneyzzz about the chakra strength bit. it would be stupid if orochimaru could summon 2 people that have the same chakra level or more then him and he still has chakra remaining... like when naruto first summons gamabunta he uses up the fox chakra and has none of his own chakra left because gambunta is i dunno strong & big? i think the chakra you get is from the sacrafise for the summons like the sound or sand ninjas whoever they were.. or its split between orochimarus chakra
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by NipponIchi View Post
    i agree with moneyzzz about the chakra strength bit. it would be stupid if orochimaru could summon 2 people that have the same chakra level or more then him and he still has chakra remaining... like when naruto first summons gamabunta he uses up the fox chakra and has none of his own chakra left because gambunta is i dunno strong & big? i think the chakra you get is from the sacrafise for the summons like the sound or sand ninjas whoever they were.. or its split between orochimarus chakra
    yea like cmon i noe tha 3rd was strong in his prime but he was really old if those were rly tha 1st and 2nd oro could of taken over tha hole leaf
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by moneyezzz View Post
    lol o wow those were like corpse thy didnt have tha same strenth or charkra tht tha real ones had lol only tha moves people can be so dumb
    i second that
     
         

  10. #10
    忍者 Knight of Thorns zenron's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori420 View Post
    Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
    so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?
    We didn't really see a lot of the first and second's powers to be honest. The only reason that I believe they were eventually defeated was because they were caught by surprise with a Jutsu that basically kicks ass. The main power that the first had was the ability to control the bijuu(besides the kyuubi), and he didn't have that in the fight. However, the skills we did see were pretty amazing compared to the things we saw the third do. He created an entire forest(We have seen the power that yamato has, and the first's power is so much more) and turned everything into darkness. This shows to me that he is pretty powerful. We only see the second doing one move, where he creates heaps of water out of nothing, so we can't really say how powerful he really is.

    I don't think that Hashirama and Tobirama lost to the third on purpose. They were being completely controlled by orochimaru. They didn't have the option of disobeying.

    However, in the manga, it does state that the 3rd Hokage is known as the "strongest"(Iruka says it to Konohamaru's academy class).

    The only reason I think Hashirama defeated Madara because the combined powers of the other bijuu were stronger than the kyuubi. I don't think the power of the people themselves really mattered at that point, with the limitless amounts of chakra flying about.

    I was reading part of the Manga just this morning, and thought the same thing you did. This was the explanation I came up with.

    Moneyz - At the top of every post, the third button a long(the flag). You can neg rep someone there, although it really isn't needed. It was a valid question.
     
         

  11. #11
    Member Chakra's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori420 View Post
    Everyone keeps saying how incredible the first hokage was for beating madara and being able to control the tailed beasts. But then he and his brother after being brought back to life was beaten by the third hokage who is incredible but was old as hell
    so whats with this madara loosing to 1st stipulation, like did madara loose on purpose against him?
    those "hokages" did not fight at full strength because they weren't their real bodies. they were sacrificial bodies that morphed to look like the hokages because their souls entered the bodies.

    also due to that summoning jutsu, they did not fight logically. they were merely robots with powers of the 1st and 2nd hokages but lack the complete power level and mentality.
     
         

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    1st hokage had all beasts apart from 9tails

    Madara had 9tails

    Akatsuki states clearly you need to seal 8 of the tailed beasts to balance the power.

    Therefore having 8 tailed beasts is the same power or more than the 9tails.

    I've said it before and i'll say it again, the 1st hokage is probably not that great once you strip him of his tailed beasts.

    the 2nd hokage was chosen when the 1st was still young looking, like 30 odd.

    And then you see the 3rd being given the title when he was TINY unless 1st and 2nd were 8ft tall the 3rd got the job when he was a CHILD, and the 1st hokage still looked 40-50 max.

    Personally when he distributed the beasts he lost a lot of power and his brother and the 3rd were much stronger after that.


    Technically also 1st hokage didn't win against madara, as madara is still alive.
     
         

  13. #13
    PLATINUM SAGE ... SHANKS platinum69's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    This was the jutsu used to summon the 1st and 2nd...

    * Name: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection (口寄せ・穢土転生, Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei; Viz "Summoning: Worldly Resurrection", English TV "Summoning Jutsu: Reanimation")
    * Type: Kinjutsu, S-rank, Supplementary[1]
    * User: Orochimaru
    * Hand Seals: Tiger → Snake → Dog → Dragon
    * Debut (Anime): Naruto Episode 69
    * Debut (Manga): Chapter 117

    Summoning: Impure World Resurrection is a forbidden technique used to revive the dead. The ninja will first sacrifice a living person to provide the vessel that the dead soul will inhabit. The dead body will then be encased in ash and dirt to resemble the original body of the person that was resurrected. When the ninja wishes to recall the souls, a portal will open in the ground and the caskets holding the bodies will appear. When the caskets open the bodies will be gray and in a state of minor decay, requiring a special seal to restore their appearance. At this point, the revived person remembers their former lives, and thus is not under the user's control. The same seal used to restore their appearance also wipes the soul of its free will, putting them under the user's control. This technique can also be used to summon multiple people at once, depending on the amount of sacrifices and the chakra level of the user.

    Once complete, the revived is impossible to kill by normal means. If a limb is destroyed or removed, it will simply regenerate. To kill the revived, the soul has to be removed. When the Third fought against the revived First and Second Hokages, he had to create shadow clones and perform the Dead Demon Consuming Seal on both of them to kill them. In doing so, the bodies turned back to ash and dust, with the bodies of the individuals sacrificed to lay among the ashes.

    reference from Wikia: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection - Narutopedia, the Naruto Wiki

    Summoning: Worldly Resurrection Naruto 117 page 17 | One Manga





    We see here Orochimaru places a seal behind their headsNaruto 118 page 05 | One Manga
    Naruto 119 page 13 | One Manga



    Naruto 119 page 16 | One Manga


    The 2nd can use 2 high level jutsu's Suiton Suijinheki, Suiton Suiryudan
    Naruto 120 page 02 | One Manga Naruto 120 page 04 | One Manga

    The 1st Hokage Naruto 120 page 06 | One Manga using Mokuton Jyukai Koudan

    and also usedNaruto 122 page 14 | One Manga (the Darkness Jutsu)

    If the 3rd didnt use Fuuin Jutsu Shiki Fuujin (The Death God Jutsu)... no way would he have been able to beat the 1st or 2nd... at the level they seemed to have...

    but I dont think the 1st and 2nd Hokage were at they full strength when fighting the 3rd...






    .
     
         
    Last edited by platinum69; 08-10-2009 at 11:03 AM. Reason: **** I pressed summit post when I should haved clicked preview post!!!!!

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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by platinum69 View Post
    This was the jutsu used to summon the 1st and 2nd...

    * Name: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection (口寄せ・穢土転生, Kuchiyose: Edo Tensei; Viz "Summoning: Worldly Resurrection", English TV "Summoning Jutsu: Reanimation")
    * Type: Kinjutsu, S-rank, Supplementary[1]
    * User: Orochimaru
    * Hand Seals: Tiger → Snake → Dog → Dragon
    * Debut (Anime): Naruto Episode 69
    * Debut (Manga): Chapter 117

    Summoning: Impure World Resurrection is a forbidden technique used to revive the dead. The ninja will first sacrifice a living person to provide the vessel that the dead soul will inhabit. The dead body will then be encased in ash and dirt to resemble the original body of the person that was resurrected. When the ninja wishes to recall the souls, a portal will open in the ground and the caskets holding the bodies will appear. When the caskets open the bodies will be gray and in a state of minor decay, requiring a special seal to restore their appearance. At this point, the revived person remembers their former lives, and thus is not under the user's control. The same seal used to restore their appearance also wipes the soul of its free will, putting them under the user's control. This technique can also be used to summon multiple people at once, depending on the amount of sacrifices and the chakra level of the user.

    Once complete, the revived is impossible to kill by normal means. If a limb is destroyed or removed, it will simply regenerate. To kill the revived, the soul has to be removed. When the Third fought against the revived First and Second Hokages, he had to create shadow clones and perform the Dead Demon Consuming Seal on both of them to kill them. In doing so, the bodies turned back to ash and dust, with the bodies of the individuals sacrificed to lay among the ashes.

    reference from Wikia: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection - Narutopedia, the Naruto Wiki

    Summoning: Worldly Resurrection Naruto 117 page 17 | One Manga





    We see here Orochimaru places a seal behind their headsNaruto 118 page 05 | One Manga
    Naruto 119 page 13 | One Manga



    Naruto 119 page 16 | One Manga


    The 2nd can use 2 high level jutsu's Suiton Suijinheki, Suiton Suiryudan
    Naruto 120 page 02 | One Manga Naruto 120 page 04 | One Manga

    The 1st Hokage Naruto 120 page 06 | One Manga using Mokuton Jyukai Koudan

    and also usedNaruto 122 page 14 | One Manga (the Darkness Jutsu)

    If the 3rd didnt use Fuuin Jutsu Shiki Fuujin (The Death God Jutsu)... no way would he have been able to beat the 1st or 2nd... at the level they seemed to have...

    but I dont think the 1st and 2nd Hokage were at they full strength when fighting the 3rd...






    .
    nah thy werent did have tha charkra or tha strenta as the real ones had well tht what i thnk
     
         

  15. #15
    忍者 Knight of Thorns zenron's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narutard View Post
    nah thy werent did have tha charkra or tha strenta as the real ones had well tht what i thnk
    There is no point saying it if you can't justify it.
     
         

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    Member Nuelmar's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Well i think that the 1st was stronger than madara but i think that madara was smarter than the 1st cause he tricked him..

    but now i think that madara is stronger because he had time to get better....
     
         

  17. #17
    do you need your neck? squiremarcus's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    1st hokage had all beasts apart from 9tails

    Madara had 9tails

    Akatsuki states clearly you need to seal 8 of the tailed beasts to balance the power.

    Therefore having 8 tailed beasts is the same power or more than the 9tails.

    I've said it before and i'll say it again, the 1st hokage is probably not that great once you strip him of his tailed beasts.

    the 2nd hokage was chosen when the 1st was still young looking, like 30 odd.

    And then you see the 3rd being given the title when he was TINY unless 1st and 2nd were 8ft tall the 3rd got the job when he was a CHILD, and the 1st hokage still looked 40-50 max.

    Personally when he distributed the beasts he lost a lot of power and his brother and the 3rd were much stronger after that.


    Technically also 1st hokage didn't win against madara, as madara is still alive.
    not only that but the mokuton(wood) has the power to suppress the nine tails to a point
     
         

  18. #18
    Senior Member Degrees's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlink View Post
    Technically also 1st hokage didn't win against madara, as madara is still alive.
    just because you dont kill someone doesnot mean you have not won a battle there no point me listing matchs but here one Naruto vs Neji or here one more serious Kakeshi vs Zabuza
     
         

  19. #19
    sasori of the red sand sasori420's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by Degrees View Post
    just because you dont kill someone doesnot mean you have not won a battle there no point me listing matchs but here one Naruto vs Neji or here one more serious Kakeshi vs Zabuza
    Sorry man but thats a terrible comparison, The first and Madara were trying to kill each other were they not??
    Naruto and Neji just wanted to beat each other they werent looking for death, and Kakashi and Zabuza..kakashi was so close to killing zabuza but gato just sort of showed up at the right time, yes naruto won and yes kakashi won but naruto didnt want to kill neji and kakashi meant to kill zabuza but let him kill gato
     
         

  20. #20
    Senior Member Degrees's Avatar
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    Re: first hokage vs madara?

    Quote Originally Posted by sasori420 View Post
    Sorry man but thats a terrible comparison, The first and Madara were trying to kill each other were they not??
    Naruto and Neji just wanted to beat each other they werent looking for death, and Kakashi and Zabuza..kakashi was so close to killing zabuza but gato just sort of showed up at the right time, yes naruto won and yes kakashi won but naruto didnt want to kill neji and kakashi meant to kill zabuza but let him kill gato
    sorry your right but you know what I was trying to say
     
         

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